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TheDeadlyShoe
Feb 14, 2014

Pakled posted:

I tried doing this with sulphur in the early game as Brazil, setting my factories to consume it and not importing much to leave the price high in the hopes that my market partner Venezuela would start building sulphur mines in its sulphur producing state, but it never did, it just seemed to favor agriculture and logging there despite me leaving the price of sulphur high for several years.

A lot of undeveloped nations specifically have agriculture or cash crops as economic priorities. Might be overwhelming the high potential gain from building mines.

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TheDeadlyShoe
Feb 14, 2014

TorakFade posted:

There's not enough wine in the world for 30 million Italians.

Anyway, I am basically done with this game, #1 world power, #1 GDP and GDP pro capita, and pretty high on most other lists, 20 average SOL, communists and the far left in government with 80% clout between them, only the industrialists are in opposition and the landowners and church might as well not exist anymore. All of this without ever fighting an actual war (besides a few months helping out others) in 70 years.

I am only stopped now by the lack of oil and rubber and my unwillingness to just go to war for them.

What's a good nation for full autarchy with good access to rare resources? I tried starting as Japan but ugh, it feels like a big slog

Persia's got coal, iron, silk, lead, opium... though it starts with Mercantalism. Only problem is if Russia decides to dunk you.

TheDeadlyShoe
Feb 14, 2014

Kraftwerk posted:

Lets say I build a steel mill in one province, with iron and coal in a neighboring and 2 province distance respectively.

Is there any measurement of throughput or advantage to having resource buildings closer to production buildings or does it not matter?

I do not think so. Provinces can communicate with themselves, and with their market, but not their neighbors.

TheDeadlyShoe
Feb 14, 2014

I'm pretty sure upgrading automation radicalizes people for getting fired, too, so you gotta be careful about dumping a bunch of those at once

TheDeadlyShoe
Feb 14, 2014

A Buttery Pastry posted:

I wholeheartedly agree with this. The idea that you can just press a button and now intolerance is over is real dumb. Like, the game already takes into consideration that the state cannot impose its will in other regards, but apparently racism can be solved with the stroke of a pen?

Something like "You get 25% of the benefit right away, but the remaining 75% is scaled by how much political support it actually has." would make a lot more sense.

I feel like with the ostensible point of the game being tending to your little garden in a very roleplay sort of way, it actually makes a lot of sense to make a truly tolerant society an extremely hard to achieve capstone to your campaign. Like, the major challenge of the game is creating an actually nice society for everyone you have dominion over, with imperialism and intolerance being the tools players end up resorting to for lack of viable alternatives for their current position/abilities.

I think Law changes are supposed to be pretty abstract, reflecting both legal and cultural changes at a lot of levels and not like the executive dashing off a notice that incidentally slavery is banned now. Entrenched discrimination is reflected in the severe radicalization of pops that support slavery owing to the change, and also explicitly the category separation between the discrimination and slavery laws.

In Victoria 3 terms, I believe the ACW would go as follows: An election results in the new government starting a slavery ban law change leading to immediate radicalization, causing the Dixies to launch a secession movement that spirals into civil war. During the civil war the changed political environment leads to another law change, pushing the discrimination level down a notch or two. The government wins the civil war but the subsequent return of the dixies to government after the war leads to a successful political movement for ratcheting the discrimination law back to racial discrimination, where it would likely remain for the rest of the game.

TheDeadlyShoe fucked around with this message at 14:00 on Nov 2, 2022

TheDeadlyShoe
Feb 14, 2014

e: nm

TheDeadlyShoe
Feb 14, 2014

Dirk the Average posted:

I've noticed that some of my generals seem to lose divisions over time (a period of several years, and the barracks are full and replenished), and getting a new general seems to refresh them and cause them to refill on troops. Is there a way to refresh them that doesn't involve hiring a random idiot in the same region?

There's some circumstances that don't seem to trigger updates of battalion allocation. Hiring a new general will fix it, but so will building a new barracks; these things properly trigger the reallocation doohickey.

Speaking of which my biggest irritation with the war system is that the #1 death spiral is to have losses shrinking your battalions. It massively screws you in any combat because width doesn't scale with battalion size, only with battalions existing. But you have to drill down thru the UI to figure out this problem and it's inevitably a problem because it's guaranteed you'll have 9 barracks in West Bumfuck, population 40k.

TheDeadlyShoe
Feb 14, 2014

The Cheshire Cat posted:

Yeah I should have specified here "without a tech advantage" because a single general very much can mulch through 10x their own numbers when you've got high trench infantry and siege artillery against like line infantry. This is an element where the unrecognized powers get a bit odd because although they don't have any mechanical disadvantage to tech growth, for whatever reason they seem very reluctant to actually upgrade their troop composition and a late game China, which could easily be a military powerhouse, ends up being pretty easy to roll over with much smaller numbers. I guess it's historical so maybe that AI is explicitly coded to be more conservative about their military tech than they could be, but late game Japan seems to be the same despite this being the period where they did quickly catch up to the other great powers of the world (although I have noticed that AI Japan basically never does the Meiji Restoration so maybe it's a similar thing where Shogunate Japan's AI priorities are "don't care about tech advancement")

I think it's the Ammunition, with similar issues as other 'new' goods like steamers, oil etc.

TheDeadlyShoe
Feb 14, 2014

probably needs a 'colonial war' setting for getting involved where they only commit troops based on their available flotillas and territory contiguous with their capital doesn't create fronts and can't be invaded. Also they're a lot more wiling to bow out and are casualty sensitive.

would also highlight the difference between a direct colonial possession and more autonomous stuff like the British Raj.

TheDeadlyShoe
Feb 14, 2014

Yeah from looking at steam forums there was a lot of:

* Why isn't this Hearts of Copper?
* Why don't African nations get arbitrary penalties on top of starting ridiculously far behind?? SJW game!!
* The notion that the war between the states was about slavery is ridiculous

Which is not to say there aren't valid criticisms, but yikes

The Cheshire Cat posted:

I feel like there should probably be a limit to how much confidence gold reserves give the AI because this is a bit ridiculous:



"Yeah we only have 2 battalions to your 300 and are vastly technologically inferior but we have a lot of cash and that will definitely help in a game where you can't hire mercenaries"

Partly I think it's that war isn't that expensive. You'll run out of manpower or lose strategically before you run out of money.

TheDeadlyShoe
Feb 14, 2014

elbkaida posted:

I really don't get how the combat works. When I attack the AI with 10 offense vs 16 defense I get smacked down and when they counterattack me with 10 offense vs 16 defense I get smacked down? How? Also not rotating fresh units to the front even if the frontlines move is a bit weird but without it I guess war would be super static.

The big reason I usually see a divergence in expected outcomes is that despite it being '5 on 5', my brigades are 300 men and theirs are 1000. Check your brigade strength / the number of men in battle.

TheDeadlyShoe
Feb 14, 2014

The leader personalities actually mattering in ways I care about is imo one of the understated strengths of the game. It brings a degree of chaos to politics that can change up runs in significant ways.

TheDeadlyShoe
Feb 14, 2014

Actually the grognard community would revolt were a complex strategy game ever to be released 'tested' or 'with a usable UI' and other such casual nonsense.

TheDeadlyShoe
Feb 14, 2014

Bold Robot posted:

Playing as Scandinavia, I'm getting large numbers of radicals due to people being fired from buildings and I'm having trouble figuring out why. The economy is booming, SOL is high and trending slowly up. I'm doing a ton of construction in states with available labor and as far as I can tell nearly everything is profitable and fully staffed. But I'm consistently seeing hundreds of thousands of people get fired. Do I just need to check building by building to figure out where all of these guys are getting fired from, or what?

look for buildings that are cycling their profitability from 0 < - > 5 constantly, its way worse than just being low profits because they constantly hire/fire

also check which pops are getting all these radicals that will help

TheDeadlyShoe
Feb 14, 2014

The target is probably more likely to back down on a dominion play.

TheDeadlyShoe
Feb 14, 2014

Tomn posted:

Yeah, this is something I keep harping on but the naval tech advantage is seriously underpowered right now, which in turn means that there’s not a lot of real point to the naval arms race when you can just poo poo out a million ironclads and as long as your fleets are significantly bigger you win.

OTOH being able to upgrade your entire fleet to battleships in a year is a bit ridiculous as well. The current system really just doesn't adequately model the naval arms race of the steel age in any way.

TheDeadlyShoe
Feb 14, 2014

yeah it loads really fast, it's nice.

at last Paradox caters to their core audience: savescummers

TheDeadlyShoe
Feb 14, 2014

In my experience distant powers will always white peace out after a while, it's the local powers who have a wargoal on you but not a land border that screws you.

I'd just take the reparations if need be. You can always carve it out of them later.

TheDeadlyShoe
Feb 14, 2014

Also it seems that mechanically plantations just don't get production methods until reasonably late in the game. So I suppose it would be inconsistent no matter what way they did it.

TheDeadlyShoe
Feb 14, 2014

DJ_Mindboggler posted:

Speaking of naval issues, can invasions be interdicted by coastal patrols? I'm pretty sure I've gotten landings despite having numerically/technologically superior fleets set to "Patrol Coast" of the relevant region.

In practice it doesn't seem so, but if you can cut off the convoys the attrition is absolutely ridiculous.

TheDeadlyShoe
Feb 14, 2014

You can just have more arms industries than you need and let them be underemployed. It's not like you need to pay property tax or maintenance.

TheDeadlyShoe
Feb 14, 2014

Gort posted:

It's weird, but not broken like industrialist political power was broken in the previous patch.

If you find yourself unable to make a sensible government that has any legitimacy, try putting every interest group in the government. You might find it shakes out to like 53% legitimacy.



Anyone else notice that obligations are kinda toothless? I was playing Two Sicilies and I started a diplomatic play to unify Italy. The war was gonna be against the Papal States, and looked easy, until Russia jumped in on their side. I gave France an obligation to get them on my side, and with their help I unified Italy.

Later, France tried to get me to make a trade agreement with them (or might've been a customs union, I forget) and I said no. The penalties appear to be that France disliked me a bit (but still had very positive relations) and the nebulous "for five years countries will realise you don't value obligations", which is pretty drat cheap for getting a Great Power to defeat another Great Power for you.

Toothless in some ways, but in other ways they are hard blocks; for example, unifying Ethiopia can get delayed if you use obligations to keep wars in your favor, as you can't invade someone you owe an obligation to.

TheDeadlyShoe
Feb 14, 2014

Tomn posted:

It’s a bit hosed, but patrolling only stops naval invasions - it does NOT stop a perfectly normal transfer of troops to an owned or friendly territory. Also you can’t rush them because that’s the nature of a diplomatic play - the whole process is drawn out enough that unless they leave it very late, all sides involved have time to mobilize and pre-position troops.

However, you can still potentially make your navy do work for you: patrolling might not stop the troops from coming in, but raiding convoys CAN hit the supply ships that’ll feed the enemy army. Set your army on defend to draw out the time it takes for Austria to do anything and to force them to go on the offensive (troops usually have better defensive stats than offensive in Vic3, especially in later time periods) while your fleets raid the gently caress out of nodes tracing the Austrian supply line. The idea is to wear out and starve the Austrians until they’re too broken to resist your counterattack.

yeah, in many respects this is an ideal situation, you can starve a whole generation of Austrians

TheDeadlyShoe
Feb 14, 2014

ilitarist posted:

Such things would probably be better represented by some global systems or event chains like HoI4 world tension or CK3 Iberian struggle etc. It's a gross simplification of course but it's better than trying to model naturally occurring crises that are both serious and do not bring back the dark ages.

That would make sense for the Great Depression, but not the constant boom/bust cycles of the 19th century...

I imagine there's some gameplay concern there, with players potentially unable to build anything for years at a time. It would an interesting illustrative example of an economic crisis though : seeing a player unable to afford continue constructing, resulting in the construction sector collapsing, resulting in a further crash in goods demand and tax receipts...

TheDeadlyShoe
Feb 14, 2014

AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:

Is there anything I can do about the price of Fertilizer being in the toilet but the price of explosives on the moon? Imports are not putting a dent in the price of explosives and exports and not bringing the price of fertilizer up, so my chemical plant is sitting there doing jack poo poo because fertilizer is so worthless.

Use worse base process to make less fertilizer


High demand secondary goods should be able to carry a factory Imo, but the way prices are balanced seems to preclude it. Price controls!!!!!!!!! Argh!!!!!!

TheDeadlyShoe
Feb 14, 2014

Usually games like this make late game construction both a lot more expensive and a lot more capable. I'm not sure that's really practical with the production methods thing

I guess they could add 10x size buildings for late game.

TheDeadlyShoe
Feb 14, 2014

Are any Paradox games playable, really?

TheDeadlyShoe
Feb 14, 2014

buglord posted:

Are there decent non-european tall countries to play as? Anything european kills my PC's performance when I zoom in.

Try Persia

Restart if Russia invades you near the start

TheDeadlyShoe
Feb 14, 2014

Demon_Corsair posted:

How does one make any loving sense of the loving war system in this game?

I'm trying an Ethiopia run which involves a bunch of conquering, and it just seems completely random. Some attempts my 2x poo poo troops vs their poo poo troops just steam rolls them, and then I'll have to restart and the next game they just steam roll me.

Last time I was able to fight of 3 of my neighbors in one war, and this game one of those neighbors just rolled over me like I didn't even have an army.

How the gently caress do you manage any of this? Do you just hope and pray or have overwhelming tech?

You have to go down a level to look at it, but particularly in early wars it's easy for brigades to be effectively unable to replenish losses for various reasons. Thus while the numbers look in your favor, in actual fact you have 10 brigades of 30 starving retirees each vs their 7 brigades of 1,000. This was the #1 cause of Mysterious Ethiopian Defeat IME.

TheDeadlyShoe
Feb 14, 2014

In my experience highly productive modders tend to be highly opinionated and dissatisfied with some aspect of the game; for better or worse, it's what motivates them to mod. Certainly its whats driven all of the Paradox modding I've done so far. But everything in Vicky 3 either feels like too much effort to mod or I'm generally satisfied with that part of the game.

TheDeadlyShoe
Feb 14, 2014

generally positive, idk about rerolling the battle conditions though. its just (ironically) reducing the randomness in the game and making battles more predetermined, since if you get any big conditions against you or for you they'll get rerolled if you stick it out - so the conditions will become generally more ignorable and less relevant as a mechanic.

Maybe if it were paired with conditions also becoming more severe. That at least should be easy to mod tho.

TheDeadlyShoe
Feb 14, 2014

It's pop fragmentation and division from migrations and education and conquests etc. Just more to calculate.

And more goods in the economy for them to consume

TheDeadlyShoe
Feb 14, 2014

Rural electrification method for peasant buildings...?

TheDeadlyShoe
Feb 14, 2014

Gort posted:

- Heirs are bald


l m a o

how the gently caress

TheDeadlyShoe
Feb 14, 2014

2.) Violent suppression decree cuts 50% of the penalties for turmoil, it's your most straightforward way of mitigating the issue.

TheDeadlyShoe
Feb 14, 2014

But my national dignity!

TheDeadlyShoe
Feb 14, 2014

Theoretically protectorates should be getting boned by cheap manufactured goods killing their profitability... don't think it works out that way tho.

TheDeadlyShoe
Feb 14, 2014

looking forward to boosting Intellectuals too far and having the technocrat revolution decide names are irrational and everyone should just go with unique designations instead


actually powerful leaders getting dumb gently caress ideas and refusing to bail on them (going full lamarckian) should just happen constantly

TheDeadlyShoe
Feb 14, 2014

Games like Vicky already have many players complaining that there's no actual game there. You do want some degree 'if I do A then B' levers players can pull just so they feel like their decisions have meaning. Outlawing slavery but having slavery still be a thing except now all the landowners are mad at you may be realistic, but it's not very engaging on a game design level.

I do think some degree of legal federalism may get like 70% of the way there without having to have that squishiness, so you get the full austria-hungarian/american south experience.

TheDeadlyShoe fucked around with this message at 11:50 on Apr 14, 2023

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TheDeadlyShoe
Feb 14, 2014

I feel like when you really need that for Persia you can't afford it. You're gonna spend a long time behind the tech curve.

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