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Dr. Arbitrary
Mar 15, 2006

Bleak Gremlin

DelilahFlowers posted:

Gonna do Turbo Radical Reconstruction as the USA and then switch to commie workers co-ops.

What if John Brown had succeeded.

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Dr. Arbitrary
Mar 15, 2006

Bleak Gremlin
I signed up for the mailing list to get a special blimp or whatever, and it's listed like this on the account settings screen:


I wonder how long it's been there, or if someone had to set it up in advance and kept getting the runaround for what the new thing was supposed to be and just said "screw it, New Project"

Dr. Arbitrary
Mar 15, 2006

Bleak Gremlin
I work in non-game development, but I wonder what user stories look like in a game like Victoria.

"As a slave pop, I would like to be able to kill my master pop and overthrow the government. Please fix ASAP, this is affecting production!"

Dr. Arbitrary
Mar 15, 2006

Bleak Gremlin

Reveilled posted:

Huh, I always heard that Africa was a matter of the Europeans drawing completely arbitrary lines on a map, turns out the pre-colonial societies already lined up exactly!

It'd be neat if that was an implemented mechanic.

I don't know how it'd be handled by the engine, but basically you start out with organic provinces that make sense for the region, and then greater powers just start drawing vertical lines where they don't make sense.

Bonus points:

Apply the same mechanic to Europe, so that if things work out differently for African powers, they can split up Europe into nice square shapes.

Dr. Arbitrary
Mar 15, 2006

Bleak Gremlin
Hidden probabilities might help with morally ambiguous situations if you want to model a paranoid fear of traitors. If the player decides to purge, never let them know if they were right, only that they severely hurt themselves, just in case.

Dr. Arbitrary
Mar 15, 2006

Bleak Gremlin

Asproigerosis posted:

Train designer or we riot.

At least make a mockup for April Fools day.

Dr. Arbitrary
Mar 15, 2006

Bleak Gremlin

Re dependents, I was actually thinking about that the other day. Anyone know how this worked in Vic2? I know that pops were just men, and there was an invisible multiplier to account for women and children. Did losing military pops in war kill their dependents too?

Dr. Arbitrary
Mar 15, 2006

Bleak Gremlin
The good news is that they finally got the Vic3 economy working in a way that makes the game mostly playable and fun, even though it breaks if you add China to your market.

The bad news is that the only way they could get it to work was by having goods produced within a market get duplicated across the individual markets of each member nation, with a penalty based on foreign investment by countries outside the market.

Dr. Arbitrary
Mar 15, 2006

Bleak Gremlin

Fellblade posted:

Perfect game for the posters in this thread who never play the games and just post moaning about them???

I paid for the game, if I choose to play it by not playing it and moaning about it, then that's my right.

Dr. Arbitrary
Mar 15, 2006

Bleak Gremlin
Figuring out a way to handle corruption is going to be hard to do in a way that's realistic, because ultimately it represents a disconnect between what's true on paper, and the factual reality.

In some games it's really fun to have psychological effects where your character hallucinates enemies that aren't really there. But in a strategy game, it'd basically be having phantom units/pops/resources.

I think that's a really fun premise for a game built around that, but it'd be tricky to drop on a player who doesn't realize what's going on.

Dr. Arbitrary
Mar 15, 2006

Bleak Gremlin

canepazzo posted:

Cheers, that makes sense. What about landlocked countries though?

You'll need to build a canal if you want to perform a naval invasion.

Dr. Arbitrary
Mar 15, 2006

Bleak Gremlin
I hope trains will have the equivalent to Roller Coaster Tycoon's guest thoughts, so you can click on one and find out if you need to work on the scenery, improve coal quality, or add more loop-de-loops.

Dr. Arbitrary
Mar 15, 2006

Bleak Gremlin
People love doomstacks, and that's pretty much what political parties are.

Dr. Arbitrary
Mar 15, 2006

Bleak Gremlin

pdxjohan posted:

Its not as if our dev teams sit around and ignore bugs and complaints. There are huge backlogs of reported bugs on all games that has become rather hard to permanently reduce. When developers are on bugfixing, there tend to be one of the following things happening.

Maybe it's not "fair" but if there's a pothole in the road leading to the road repair department's HQ, I wouldn't be surprised if it gets fixed a little faster than normal.

If developers are working through priority issues at a good pace, and one of them knocks out a bug they personally care about on a Friday before heading out, then that's just a perk of the job.

I'm sure software projects would be easier to plan if it was just like an assembly line and you could just send a laptop down a conveyor belt flanked by programmers, but until that happens, sometimes tickets are gonna get fixed out of order.

Dr. Arbitrary
Mar 15, 2006

Bleak Gremlin
I'm very excited about the upcoming info on flags. It was one of my favorite parts of Vic2

Dr. Arbitrary
Mar 15, 2006

Bleak Gremlin
I keep thinking about flags in terms of software development user stories and test driven design.

Presumably, every historical flag needs to be possible with the flag system, so someone on the team got a ticket along the lines of:




quote:

As South Africa, I need a flag with tiny flags inside of it, one of which has an even tinier flag inside of it.

code:

 Completed
>Won't Do
 Duplicate
 Incomplete
 In Progress

Dr. Arbitrary
Mar 15, 2006

Bleak Gremlin
Gonna have to make myself a radar chart mod.

Dr. Arbitrary
Mar 15, 2006

Bleak Gremlin

Kaza42 posted:

As long as you don't have those abominable stacked area charts, they can use what they want. I've never seen a chart types as useless as those, and I'm still not convinced they weren't invented as some kind of bizarre joke that escaped containment

I was going to write a thing defending them, and while looking for an example of a good use case (hard to find), I found something that I require to be a joke:

Dr. Arbitrary
Mar 15, 2006

Bleak Gremlin
Just let me emit my Victoria 3 metrics to Kafka/Kinesis and I'll handle the rest.

Dr. Arbitrary
Mar 15, 2006

Bleak Gremlin
It sounds really cool, and would be great in a tutorial, but I don't want it. If I want to know how many crates of tomatoes are in a backwater province in 1837, just let me know.

Dr. Arbitrary
Mar 15, 2006

Bleak Gremlin

LonsomeSon posted:

I want a system which kicks me in my balls as hard as possible when I think about numbers

Look, I get paid to get kicked in the balls while thinking about numbers, and I don't need amateurs like you loving with my livelihood by doing it for free.

Dr. Arbitrary
Mar 15, 2006

Bleak Gremlin
It's sorta what I imagine in my dream space 4x game.
Pretty much perfect knowledge of your homeworld, but your colonies are going to be a bit foggy, and the colonies of your colonies will be barely connected. They're probably the most likely to have high ideological drift, more likely to want independence, and also most likely to be the ones to make first contact with alien races.

It has a lot of potential for neat scenarios, because your fringe colonies are probably total weirdos, and the aliens they encounter are also likely to be very different from their home planet.

All that said, it's a bad fit for the era of Victoria 3. The world is shrinking in this era, and uncertainty can probably be represented better with random events for bureaucratic screwups and Potemkin factories.

Dr. Arbitrary
Mar 15, 2006

Bleak Gremlin
The idea of an African nation beating everyone else to the punch for anti-malaria drugs and exploding up in power would make for some really interesting stories.

Dr. Arbitrary
Mar 15, 2006

Bleak Gremlin

Zeron posted:

I hope they either let you make generic ones or massively expand the number after release.

I hope you're talking about canals, because if not, I'm gonna have to learn how to mod so that you can build silly canals.

* Rio Grande Canal along the US Mexico Border
* Superior Canal across US Canada Border
* African Canal from the Gulf of Guinea to the Red Sea
* Caucus Canal connecting the Caspian and Black Sea
* Dnieper Canal connecting the Baltic Sea to the Black Sea
* Biwa Canal connecting the Sea of Japan to the Pacific Ocean
* Florida Canal

Dr. Arbitrary
Mar 15, 2006

Bleak Gremlin

RattiRatto posted:

I want to show the prowess of the steppe horde by building a canal connecting Caspian and Black sea. And thus ensuing a never ending economical collapse for the shear amount of resources poured into this

Straight through a mountain range. It's a canal AND a tunnel.

Dr. Arbitrary
Mar 15, 2006

Bleak Gremlin

HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:

I look forward to the mod that has things seeming extremely Lovecraftian, and then you send in an explorer who isn't racist and discover that the first guy was just a dumb racist

I don't know if it was common, but that era had at least a few notable scams, so it's plausible that you might finance an expedition from a con artist.

This guy sold bonds and land deeds to what turned out to be uninhabitable jungle:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregor_MacGregor

I kind of like the idea that you could send off an expedition with amazing and fantastical results, and a follow-up a few years later reveals that the first guy fabricated the whole thing. Not necessarily a disaster or waste though, maybe now that the expedition is really happening you'll get something different and actually real.

Dr. Arbitrary
Mar 15, 2006

Bleak Gremlin

Hellioning posted:

The fundamental issue is that making decisions based off of bad information in a game entirely about information is just always going to feel bad.

I think the only way to make a game like that fun is to make that the core mechanic in the game, as explicitly as possible.

I've always wanted to make a business simulator, but the whole problem is that you don't have a reliable way to evaluate the skills of any employees: HR, accounting, management, production, they're all almost a complete mystery.
And sure, you can hire someone to run interviews and do research on candidates, but if they're bad at their job then they're probably just going to look at the college they graduated from and hire people from the same school they went to, or even worse just go full nepotism and hire all their lovely family members.

Of course, if you're trying to play it like a normal business game, it'll be incredibly frustrating. Instead, you'd have to almost treat it like a social deduction/werewolf game.

So anyways, probably not a good thing to tack onto a different game that's not built around the concept from the start.

Dr. Arbitrary
Mar 15, 2006

Bleak Gremlin
The source got leaked? Oof.

I'm going to totally understand if the next Dev diary is just "We all took a few days off, here's some pictures I took at the zoo."

Dr. Arbitrary
Mar 15, 2006

Bleak Gremlin

trapped mouse posted:

I mean, the ACW was all about slavery in Victoria 2 as well, I don't think any popular mods ever attempted to change that either. Victoria 2 is like the 4chan crowd's favorite PDX game regardless.

I'm trying to imagine someone trying to make a lost cause mod, and what that would even look like.

In a war sim, I can see working around it, but when you're simulating the economy you'd really have to twist things up into knots to make things work.

Dr. Arbitrary
Mar 15, 2006

Bleak Gremlin
I'm excited to see what mods come out of this.

Some of the really neat mods for HoI4 feel like a mismatch to what the game is built around, so all of the really interesting stuff is done in the focus tree, decisions menu, and event popups.

HoI4 does a good job of simulating a desire for important resources needed for the war economy, but not as good for important resources needed for the civilian economy.

I know people have put in a lot of work to get things where they are, but I'd love to see what a Vic3 implementation of millennium dawn or TNO would look like.

Dr. Arbitrary
Mar 15, 2006

Bleak Gremlin
I just had the silly thought of a World of Darkness mod for Victoria, and then I realized you could probably just rename Capitalists to vampires and call it a day.

Dr. Arbitrary
Mar 15, 2006

Bleak Gremlin

TwoQuestions posted:

Both CK3 and HOI4 have mods with entirely fictitious start/end dates, I see no reason why Victoria 3 would be limited where other games aren't. There's at least a few fantasy CK3 mods that use entirely different date systems, but I'm pretty sure they still use the Gregorian calendar, but I could be wrong.

The guy who made the Way of Kings mod seems to think it's not possible to use an entirely different calendar system.

I think there's a little bit that can be done to change up the way the date is presented, but you can't do stuff like make years that are 500 days long or anything.

Dr. Arbitrary
Mar 15, 2006

Bleak Gremlin
I'm curious to see how revolutions work with the front system. A slave uprising wouldn't necessarily be one geographic region, it'd be little pockets all over the place.

How does that work as a front? Do you have a whole bunch of them that combine as the front expands?

Dr. Arbitrary
Mar 15, 2006

Bleak Gremlin


The debug tools in this screenshot seem really slick. It's a sign that there's been a lot of time investment into making the overall development/testing process cycle faster.

I won't speculate too much on the overall process, but I can imagine a tester seeing an event with a typo/display glitch, opening the event via menu, making the change, and opening a pull-request within the span of a few minutes.

If it doesn't get removed before release, it'll be handy for modders too.

Spending time on features like this can be hard to justify because they don't translate to anything a typical player sees, but make life a lot better for the whole team. It's a sign that there's competent project management behind the scenes.

Dr. Arbitrary
Mar 15, 2006

Bleak Gremlin

Enjoy posted:

Thanks, I've done a first pass on resources and economic buildings now

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1aiRBvOzFDofuGpjQnmW4s_l83wTWccg9SqgZdMSPFA0/edit

This is pretty cool.

It's got my gears turning on what kinds of scenario you might be able to set up with the Victoria 3 system. Ideally, it'll be a good system for modeling an upheaval of the economic status quo, and I'm trying to think about what that might mean.

This definitely doesn't seem like a match to the setting you're building, so don't take it as a suggestion (unless you really want to)
If you have enough control over pop rules, it might be possible to do something interesting with transhumanism and digitization of consciousness. It'd create a new type of pop that has totally different needs. Possibly just electricity and maintenance parts, but much less than a flesh and blood human. And that could create a very weird situation where you have a nation that has a growing digital population that has full voting rights but wildly different priorities.

You could end up with various levels of cooperation, or one may try to disenfranchise and/or enslave the other.

The upside of digital sentience would be that for any work that doesn't require physical presence, the job could be done by someone who has rock-bottom living expenses. But that's also a huge downside in a similar way to automation in the industrial revolution.

And this is just from noodling on it for 20 minutes. I'm really excited to see what kinds of crazy stuff that modders come up with!

Dr. Arbitrary
Mar 15, 2006

Bleak Gremlin

Hryme posted:

Calling it communism seems anachronistic to me. It is putting todays political ideas into the far distant past. I don't think most historians refer to their society in that way.

Look, I've translated Marx's work from the original Sumerian and it's still relevant today.

Dr. Arbitrary
Mar 15, 2006

Bleak Gremlin

Mantis42 posted:

I've spent a stupid amount of time thinking about this, what characters would be in it, what their weapons would be, etc. Too bad I have no understanding of programming or game design.

Do not pursue Lee Bob

Dr. Arbitrary
Mar 15, 2006

Bleak Gremlin

FishBulbia posted:

Marx never good understand human nature, and by human nature I mean the tendency of Nepal to own all currency in existence while attempting endlessly to enact and then repeal prohibition.

Ugh, it's Bengal that corners the entire world's money supply, learn some history.
https://www.reddit.com/r/victoria3/comments/njz0wc/victoria_2_3_and_lategame_liquidity_crises/

Dr. Arbitrary
Mar 15, 2006

Bleak Gremlin

Cease to Hope posted:

mind upload/backups + memory authoring > synthetic human minds

This one technology alone seems like the sort of thing an entire total conversion mod could be built around.
I don't remember if I've posted about it before, but it's definitely the kind of thing that could be comparable to the industrial revolution.

What are the political implications of a pop that's immortal, has minimal needs, can easily replace any non-laborer pop, and can still vote? What happens if they start reproducing and you end up with a 2:1 ratio of virtual to physical humans? 10:1? 1000:1? Either side could plausibly end up enslaving the other.

Edit: I did already mention it: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3968353&userid=94131#post523490141

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Dr. Arbitrary
Mar 15, 2006

Bleak Gremlin

This author specifically is very relevant to the topic.
https://qntm.org/mmacevedo

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