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BigPaddy
Jun 30, 2008

That night we performed the rite and opened the gate.
Halfway through, I went to fix us both a coke float.
By the time I got back, he'd gone insane.
Plus, he'd left the gate open and there was evil everywhere.


Saw a Mach-E today, looked like an escape that someone had put a bad mustang replica front end on and rear lights. Not recommended.

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the spyder
Feb 18, 2011
We didn't quite make it to 115, just a nice 112.

https://twitter.com/NWSPortland/status/1409303279872274434

IOwnCalculus
Apr 2, 2003





BigPaddy posted:

Getting about 25 mpg with the Sierra and it’s I4 turbo. It is crazy that truck bros are mad about it because it is not a V8.

I know people are just going to keep doing LS swaps because LS, but that 2.7 turbo four seems like it'd be a loving killer swap in place of any AMC/Jeep I6.

Imperador do Brasil
Nov 18, 2005
Rotor-rific



Got gas in the back woods of South Dakota because I was running on fumes after leaving Mt. Rushmore. They only had 91, which is funny but exactly what I needed.



Gas station looked like it was out of the 70’s if you discount the UTVs parked outside. The payment was on the honor system. Great experience, A+ staff, would recommend.

Averaging 40-ish mpg for the past 1700 miles with the trunk and backseat packed, and three occupants. My kid took this hilarious economy shot when pulling into Deadwood yesterday:

BaseballPCHiker
Jan 16, 2006

I have never put down money to "reserve" a car before, the whole thing sounds like a dumb idea so I thought I'd come to AI to get some info.

Specifically I am interested in buying a Hyundai Santa Cruz when it comes out. Its small enough for the city, should handle the forest roads I go on about 5-6 times a year just fine, and have enough of a truck bed to be extremely handy for me.

BUT, the whole idea of putting down $100 to then be locked in with a single dealer seems like a bad idea. Should I just wait until they actually come out and then try and get one? I've also heard buying the first year of a car can be a bad idea as they havent worked out all of the kinks yet, they inevitably find some things they need to improve for the next model year. Should I wait a few years? Until the last model year of the 1st generation maybe? Or am I wildly overthinking this?

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004

Rhesus Pieces posted:

Not sure if this belongs in the marketplace thread or what...

My dad is currently trying to sell a 2000 jeep cherokee (he's the second owner) with only 58,000 miles on it for $7000-$9000 on facebook marketplace and his phone is dinging constantly, like he's fishing with dynamite. People are messaging him from hours away in different states willing to see it immediately. Does he not know what he has or is the used car market just that hot right now? I went on carsandbids.com and saw that people sold similar vehicles with easily double the miles for at and above 10 grand. Is he sitting on a unicorn right now?

If it's not a rustball, he is. They're very in demand for offroad/rock crawlers and a ton have been either hosed over and destroyed by idiots or rusted structurally to the point of unrecoverability, and universally have 200k+ on the ODO.

cursedshitbox posted:

Thirding this. When you think you've had enough water, drink more. No, its not enough, keep drinking. heat stroke is a motherfucker.

at 4700' altitude I'm not handling 100*F+ temps like I should. Beats the gently caress out of me as to why. Coupled with some constant partial shade on the solar array a/c isn't happening. Gonna go plug in and do some immersion cooling via river.

As the burners like to say: PISS CLEAR.

If you're not drinking enough water to do so, you need to go drink more water.

Liquid Communism fucked around with this message at 14:05 on Jun 28, 2021

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010



Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22

BaseballPCHiker posted:

I have never put down money to "reserve" a car before, the whole thing sounds like a dumb idea so I thought I'd come to AI to get some info.

Specifically I am interested in buying a Hyundai Santa Cruz when it comes out. Its small enough for the city, should handle the forest roads I go on about 5-6 times a year just fine, and have enough of a truck bed to be extremely handy for me.

BUT, the whole idea of putting down $100 to then be locked in with a single dealer seems like a bad idea. Should I just wait until they actually come out and then try and get one? I've also heard buying the first year of a car can be a bad idea as they havent worked out all of the kinks yet, they inevitably find some things they need to improve for the next model year. Should I wait a few years? Until the last model year of the 1st generation maybe? Or am I wildly overthinking this?

You're somewhat overthinking this. I don't think it makes sense to reserve a car that I think is extremely unlikely to be supply constrained. First model years tend to have more problems, but any returns to reliability from age of platform are rapidly diminishing. The Santa Cruz is going to be on the Tucson platform that is out now, so it's not a full clean sheet design.

If you are planning to buy a small truck the Maverick also (will) exist and is worth your consideration.

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010



Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22
heat management stuff: make sure you are getting enough electrolytes along with your water, and if you are very hot putting a damp cloth on the back of your neck helps a lot.

BaseballPCHiker
Jan 16, 2006

KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:

You're somewhat overthinking this. I don't think it makes sense to reserve a car that I think is extremely unlikely to be supply constrained. First model years tend to have more problems, but any returns to reliability from age of platform are rapidly diminishing. The Santa Cruz is going to be on the Tucson platform that is out now, so it's not a full clean sheet design.

If you are planning to buy a small truck the Maverick also (will) exist and is worth your consideration.

Thanks for the info. Yeah I am excited to check out the Maverick as well. The Santa Cruz looks just a tad smaller which appealed to me as a current Crosstrek driver.

I think I'll wait for both to come out, test drive them and see what I like then deal with the shitheads at a dealership.

Applebees Appetizer
Jan 23, 2006

KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:

heat management stuff: make sure you are getting enough electrolytes along with your water, and if you are very hot putting a damp cloth on the back of your neck helps a lot.

Also covering up. Fishing in Florida during the summer has taught me to wear long sleeve shirts and hats/hoods with face coverings as well, basically covering up any exposed skin. Sunblock only goes so far, and there is tons of UV clothing available now. I always wear long sleeve UV shirts when I'm in the sun now.

randomidiot
May 12, 2006

by Fluffdaddy

(and can't post for 11 years!)

Imperador do Brasil posted:

Got gas in the back woods of South Dakota because I was running on fumes after leaving Mt. Rushmore. They only had 91, which is funny but exactly what I needed.

You'll find lower octanes at higher elevations. 91 at a high elevation is just like 93 at a lower elevation.

I don't know the math behind it, but 85 was considered regular where I grew up, 91 was the highest you could get outside of stations near the dragstrip.

nitsuga posted:

It’s a J-Bolt I guess: https://www.ebay.com/itm/133345727758

At least it’s just flying around in the trunk though.

Thanks. That price is a bit high, though I need to hit the junkyard anyway... hopefully I'll find one there.

KozmoNaut
Apr 23, 2008

Happiness is a warm
Turbo Plasma Rifle


Applebees Appetizer posted:

Also covering up. Fishing in Florida during the summer has taught me to wear long sleeve shirts and hats/hoods with face coverings as well, basically covering up any exposed skin. Sunblock only goes so far, and there is tons of UV clothing available now. I always wear long sleeve UV shirts when I'm in the sun now.

I've always worn shorts and short-sleeved shirts in the summer, but I've recently been converted to long-sleeved shirts and long loose pants. It feels warmer at first, but your body quickly acclimatizes to that buffer of air. Plus even ordinary fabric blocks a surprising amount of UV, as long as the weave is reasonably tight, which covers most men's shirts made from cotton. Not as well as proper UV clothing, of course.

And get a hat, I cannot stress this enough. And make sure it covers your ears etc., a baseball cap shields the top of your head and your face, and literally nothing else. Get a proper boonie hat or something else with a wide brim all the way around.

bird with big dick
Oct 21, 2015

Like a fedora

KozmoNaut
Apr 23, 2008

Happiness is a warm
Turbo Plasma Rifle


If that's what you want, sure.

But a felt fedora (or trilby) is gonna get hella warm in summer. You may end up sweating all over your Naruto cards.

StormDrain
May 22, 2003

Thirteen Letter

STR posted:

You'll find lower octanes at higher elevations. 91 at a high elevation is just like 93 at a lower elevation.

I don't know the math behind it, but 85 was considered regular where I grew up, 91 was the highest you could get outside of stations near the dragstrip.

Thanks. That price is a bit high, though I need to hit the junkyard anyway... hopefully I'll find one there.

Less air pressure means lower compression, and the charge won't self detonate without the same pressure, so the octane doesn't need to be as high.

Applebees Appetizer
Jan 23, 2006

KozmoNaut posted:

And get a hat, I cannot stress this enough. And make sure it covers your ears etc., a baseball cap shields the top of your head and your face, and literally nothing else. Get a proper boonie hat or something else with a wide brim all the way around.

I've been wearing the super wide beach hats but sometimes those get in the way, so I got a few UV shirts with hoods and those work great over a baseball cap.

And yeah, I was a beach bum all through the 90's and 2k's never wearing a shirt on the beach and I paid for it, my arms look like old shoe leather now and i won't be surprised if I have to deal with skin cancer eventually as a result. Trying to stay covered as much as possible now tho, better late then never I guess, but I wish we had the nice lightweight UV shirts back then. No way you could wear long sleeve cotton in the summer.

meatpimp
May 15, 2004

Psst -- Wanna buy

:) EVERYWHERE :)
some high-quality thread's DESTROYED!

:kheldragar:

BigPaddy posted:

Saw a Mach-E today, looked like an escape that someone had put a bad mustang replica front end on and rear lights. Not recommended.

I saw my first one yesterday. It truly looks ridiculous. I love what it is, though, so I'll allow it (but I'll stab anyone that doesn't call it a "mache" out of disdain).

I really don't like Ford in general, but I wholeheartedly support their shift to electric cars, and turning them into showcases like the 172mph 1/4 mile they did this weekend: https://www.thedrive.com/news/41299/all-electric-mustang-cobra-jet-1400-roasts-the-quarter-mile-with-a-new-nhra-record

And on the solar front from the last couple pages -- I'm immensely jealous at those of you who already have solar. It's well on my radar right now.

CerealKilla420
Jan 3, 2014

"I need a handle man..."
I also saw my first Mach-e yesterday.

Personally I think it’s hideous.

My buddy is looking at the Ford maverick and after looking at it last night I want so bad to be excited about it…

But I don’t trust Ford at all. No way this won’t be a reliability disaster imo.

Still early cool stuff. It’s basically the cuv version of an Ute.

Rhyno
Mar 22, 2003
Probation
Can't post for 10 years!

64bit_Dophins posted:

I also saw my first Mach-e yesterday.

Personally I think it’s hideous.

My buddy is looking at the Ford maverick and after looking at it last night I want so bad to be excited about it…

But I don’t trust Ford at all. No way this won’t be a reliability disaster imo.

Still early cool stuff. It’s basically the cuv version of an Ute.

The only thing exciting about the Maverick is the mpg. The Santa Cruz looks better in every other way.

BaseballPCHiker
Jan 16, 2006

64bit_Dophins posted:

But I don’t trust Ford at all. No way this won’t be a reliability disaster imo.

Still early cool stuff. It’s basically the cuv version of an Ute.

While Im excited about the Santa Cruz and the Maverick, this is why I think ill go with the Hyundai. I've heard of so many issues from people with F150s and EcoBoost engines, all anecdotal so who knows how bad they really are but it doesnt fill me with confidence.

Rhyno
Mar 22, 2003
Probation
Can't post for 10 years!

BaseballPCHiker posted:

While Im excited about the Santa Cruz and the Maverick, this is why I think ill go with the Hyundai. I've heard of so many issues from people with F150s and EcoBoost engines, all anecdotal so who knows how bad they really are but it doesnt fill me with confidence.

As much as I want some fast sports sedan the SC really does check every practical box for me. Probably can't afford a car at this point anyways but it's nice to dream.

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010



Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22

BaseballPCHiker posted:

While Im excited about the Santa Cruz and the Maverick, this is why I think ill go with the Hyundai. I've heard of so many issues from people with F150s and EcoBoost engines, all anecdotal so who knows how bad they really are but it doesnt fill me with confidence.

you hear a lot of issues from people with F150s because there are a poo poo load of F150s

Hyundai had pretty serious problems with the Theta engine recently. I don't trust Ford's product launch and software track record but I think it's unlikely that the new Maverick is a real dog. All underperformance in reliability these days is also within the context of absurdly better industry-wide reliability, so don't forget to keep that in mind too.

bird with big dick
Oct 21, 2015

64bit_Dophins posted:

I also saw my first Mach-e yesterday.

Personally I think it’s hideous.

My buddy is looking at the Ford maverick and after looking at it last night I want so bad to be excited about it…

But I don’t trust Ford at all. No way this won’t be a reliability disaster imo.

Still early cool stuff. It’s basically the cuv version of an Ute.

Ford is middle of the pack in terms of reliability and these days the difference between middle of the pack and top tier reliability is like 0.2 or 0.3 problems per vehicle.

Why is it that you think Ford is a reliability disaster?

Applebees Appetizer
Jan 23, 2006

Yeah the Ford seems more ideal as a hybrid than the Santa Cruz. Styling is subjective, but I like the boxy styling of the ford better as well.I'm interested in it but I'm gonna wait awhile and see how they do.

The base price of the Ford is hard to beat, I'd take a base model all day long even if i have to order one. But again first year model teething issues and all that, guess we'll see how they do but if the issues are minimal the maverick could be a hit for Ford.

Darchangel
Feb 12, 2009

Tell him about the blower!


STR posted:

My OB's AC was only great for about 6 hours after topping it off. Then it was back to "meh", and you could see oil bubbling out of the compressor itself. :sigh: It would usually work well enough while moving though, and didn't seem to leak once it got to that point.

CV's AC is loving amazing, and I fit half of my storage unit in the drat thing yesterday. I miss the wagon, but this thing truly has a mafia trunk.

Isn't there supposed to be some kind of retainer for the spare, though? Mine is just kinda shoved up in there - it falls off of that shelf every time I give it any real pedal.

Yeah, it's supposed to have a J-hook back there. If you don't know, it sits on the shelf above the gas tank, passenger side, and the full-size fits. I think it uses the same J-hook full-size or donut, since the full-size has so much positive offset. The full size just goes in face down. I'm currently not using mine since it's a donut down in the well (sub-box is like 2" too wide for the spare to fit.) I'm thinking about welding in the bracket in the well, just to keep the spare from making noise over bumps and such.
Go grab you one from the wrecking yard. Should be the same for all Panthers 2003+, and probably back to '97 or so.

nitsuga posted:

It’s a J-Bolt I guess: https://www.ebay.com/itm/133345727758

At least it’s just flying around in the trunk though.

And there you go. Don't pay $23 for it, though. That's silly.

BigPaddy posted:

Saw a Mach-E today, looked like an escape that someone had put a bad mustang replica front end on and rear lights. Not recommended.

I finally saw one while eating out in Dallas last weekend. It's not bad-looking, particularly in light of all the *other* CUVs out there, but the whole Mustang thing is dumb.

BaseballPCHiker
Jan 16, 2006

bird with big dick posted:

Ford is middle of the pack in terms of reliability and these days the difference between middle of the pack and top tier reliability is like 0.2 or 0.3 problems per vehicle.

Why is it that you think Ford is a reliability disaster?

Not the person you quoted but I will chime in as AI tourist that popped in today out of interest in the Maverick and Santa Cruz.

For me, I think its a lot like KYOON said, there are a lot of people I know who have F150s who have complained about them. Specifically my boss and a friend of mine. They had a 2013 and 2015 F150 and seemed to have nothing but problems with them. Transmission issues, fuel pump issues, etc. My boss ended up trading in his 2013 to buy an older, low mileage Suburban for towing his boat and seems to like it a lot more. My friend just keeps throwing money at his F150 hoping better days are ahead.

I guess after hearing them complain about their Fords Im leery of buying one.

bird with big dick
Oct 21, 2015

Anecdotes are not a good way to evaluate vehicle reliability.

Applebees Appetizer
Jan 23, 2006

BaseballPCHiker posted:

I guess after hearing them complain about their Fords Im leery of buying one.

Buying a first model year car is generally a bad idea anyway, you're better off waiting on both, drive them when the next model year comes out and see which one you like better. They will more than likely be equally reliable, it's not like Hyundai is some kind of beacon for vehicle reliability or something.

BaseballPCHiker
Jan 16, 2006

Applebees Appetizer posted:

Buying a first model year car is generally a bad idea anyway, you're better off waiting on both, drive them when the next model year comes out and see which one you like better. They will more than likely be equally reliable, it's not like Hyundai is some kind of beacon for vehicle reliability or something.

I think thats going to be my move. I have a low mileage 2015 Crosstrek right now that I like, and I think I'll just drive that for another year or two until I see how well regarded both vehicles are.

bird with big dick posted:

Anecdotes are not a good way to evaluate vehicle reliability.

Agreed. I have a consumer reports subscription as well and would check their ratings before making a purchase.

randomidiot
May 12, 2006

by Fluffdaddy

(and can't post for 11 years!)

nitsuga posted:

It’s a J-Bolt I guess: https://www.ebay.com/itm/133345727758

At least it’s just flying around in the trunk though.

I've yet to really dig through the trunk - I know there's a set of wheel chocks (new in box) in there, along with a trailer hitch and (supposedly) mounting hardware for it. Maybe I'll find that in there - knowing what it looks like is a big help. If it's not there, I need to do a junkyard run anyway.

Darchangel posted:

Yeah, it's supposed to have a J-hook back there. If you don't know, it sits on the shelf above the gas tank, passenger side, and the full-size fits. I think it uses the same J-hook full-size or donut, since the full-size has so much positive offset. The full size just goes in face down. I'm currently not using mine since it's a donut down in the well (sub-box is like 2" too wide for the spare to fit.) I'm thinking about welding in the bracket in the well, just to keep the spare from making noise over bumps and such.
Go grab you one from the wrecking yard. Should be the same for all Panthers 2003+, and probably back to '97 or so.

I saw the bracket up there, and yeah the full size definitely fits up there. Is there a place for a jack anywhere? Mine definitely didn't come with one; I have AAA, so I'm not that concerned about the jack of jack right now. I'll probably toss my harbor freight floor jack in the well before I drive more than half an hour away from home.

My sub is just a single 12" in a cheap ported box - it fits easily in the well, but no chance of fitting on the shelf. I might see if I can find a box that does fit on the shelf; this is a lovely Walmart box anyway, and it's starting to come apart. I already know not to mount anything to the shelf with screws, at least.

Gotta hit the yard for a header panel anyway, and probably some evap solenoids (definitely the vent solenoid, maybe purge solenoid too).

Darchangel posted:

Can confirm that those twilights will work with only one of the two pigtails plugged in. There’s some difference, maybe - mine seemed to change how they flashed with the turn signals, so maybe a resistor? Though mine included separate resistors, too. I just nodded in an external “LED” rated flasher, since the OEM is built into the Lighting Control Module, and of course has the fast blink bulb out indicator.

Yeah, I tried every possible combination of plugs I could think of, the right one just would NOT work properly (also have the external resistors, though there's an audible clicking inside the lamp housing when any lights come on). One combination popped both the turn and brake light fuses, and now the left signal (I was working on the right one) fast flashes the first few flashes. With incandescent, all working. Dunno if I roached something in the LCM or not, or if a bulb is marginal, or if it's the :fuckoff: tape and splice mess of wiring in the trunk.

bird with big dick
Oct 21, 2015

I used to be a bigger fan of CRs ratings but lately:
1. At this point this is basically all data collected by, from, and for boomers, right? I don't like that their data is exclusively collected from their own customers.
2. Pretty sure they freely admit they use their "industry expertise" and data from "similar models" to come to conclusions when they don't have enough data.
3. I think they also admitted that when they went to online only data collection they stopped getting nearly as much data.
4. If you look at their rankings right now you will see things like "The A4 and A5 are top 10 most reliable cars ever made and also every VW is total trash!" which I'm not sure I believe.
5. Pretty sure their rankings are still completely opaque. Like what exactly is the difference between 2 up arrows and 1 down arrow? 0.5 problems per year? 2 problems per year? Who fuckin knows.

I'm more likely to just look at JD Powers dependability study to make sure the entire brand isn't a total piece of poo poo (e.g. Alfa, Land Rover, Jaguar) and then just buy whatever I like the most. I'm not gonna buy an Acura over a Subaru just because I'm 7% less likely to have a moderate mechanical repair every year or whatever, if I don't like the Acura as much.

And if you want anecdotal data my wife and I have bought 8 new cars since we graduated from college 15 years ago (3 toyotas, 2 hondas, 2 fords, and a Nissan) and none of them have ever needed a major repair and tbh the one that has literally never needed any repair at all (other than an airbag recall iirc) is the 2012 Ford Mustang.

IOwnCalculus
Apr 2, 2003





I apparently can get CR access through my library.

I checked tire reviews of all things first, and they're literally worse than what you can find on Discount Tire, let alone Tire Rack's actual comparisons.

BaseballPCHiker
Jan 16, 2006

Well poo poo.

I always knew to take the user reports with a grain of salt, they always bitched about the touchscreen systems in new cars. But didnt know they were considered to have gone down hill so much. I guess I will have to find somewhere else for info when it comes time to research and buy.

Deteriorata
Feb 6, 2005

BaseballPCHiker posted:

Well poo poo.

I always knew to take the user reports with a grain of salt, they always bitched about the touchscreen systems in new cars. But didnt know they were considered to have gone down hill so much. I guess I will have to find somewhere else for info when it comes time to research and buy.

I've never considered them particularly reliable. They're one datapoint among many. They're not useless, but neither are they gospel.

Their reputation was mainly built through self-promotion.

meatpimp
May 15, 2004

Psst -- Wanna buy

:) EVERYWHERE :)
some high-quality thread's DESTROYED!

:kheldragar:

Deteriorata posted:

I've never considered them particularly reliable. They're one datapoint among many. They're not useless, but neither are they gospel.

Their reputation was mainly built through self-promotion.

Back in the '80s, they were legit, and about the only game in town. Since then, they've got Boomeritis and lazy.

Deteriorata
Feb 6, 2005

meatpimp posted:

Back in the '80s, they were legit, and about the only game in town. Since then, they've got Boomeritis and lazy.

Nah, they weren't legit then, either. They've always been strongly biased against anything made in Detroit and worshiped Honda. They were the only game in town, true, which is most of their appeal.

Rating the highly acclaimed Plymouth Horizon/Dodge Omni pair as "unacceptable" was a flagrant, politically motivated hit job, for example. They hated Chrysler because of the loan guarantees Lee Iaccoca was campaigning for and took it out on his cars.

IOwnCalculus
Apr 2, 2003





If you want to poke through it yourself, it looks like all the library link really wants is "any zip code within Maricopa county": https://catalog.mcldaz.org/Search/misc/esourceview.aspx?ctx=1.1033.0.0.7&Target=67118

85281 if you're an ASU fan.

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010



Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22
CR is relatively good for appliances and poo poo because there isn't that much reliability data. It's a useful data point for auto but not the end-all-be-all. JDP sucks poo poo and is a joke.

Darchangel
Feb 12, 2009

Tell him about the blower!


STR posted:

I've yet to really dig through the trunk - I know there's a set of wheel chocks (new in box) in there, along with a trailer hitch and (supposedly) mounting hardware for it. Maybe I'll find that in there - knowing what it looks like is a big help. If it's not there, I need to do a junkyard run anyway.

I saw the bracket up there, and yeah the full size definitely fits up there. Is there a place for a jack anywhere? Mine definitely didn't come with one; I have AAA, so I'm not that concerned about the jack of jack right now. I'll probably toss my harbor freight floor jack in the well before I drive more than half an hour away from home.

From the factory, no, there's nowhere to put the jack on that year. On ours, you just... stuff the jack between the tire and the rear firewall.
https://www.crownvic.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1401548
http://www.pontiacperformance.net/TechArticles/CV_JackUpgrade.html

I'd have to look at mine again, but I'm pretty sure I just used a piece of aluminum U-channel, a long eye-bolt, and a turnbuckle with a hook to secure it to the trunk brace.

Here's the jack usage card for the Marauder:


quote:

My sub is just a single 12" in a cheap ported box - it fits easily in the well, but no chance of fitting on the shelf. I might see if I can find a box that does fit on the shelf; this is a lovely Walmart box anyway, and it's starting to come apart. I already know not to mount anything to the shelf with screws, at least.

I had to build mine to fit.

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Ether Frenzy
Dec 22, 2006




Nap Ghost

Deteriorata posted:

Nah, they weren't legit then, either. They've always been strongly biased against anything made in Detroit and worshiped Honda. They were the only game in town, true, which is most of their appeal.

Rating the highly acclaimed Plymouth Horizon/Dodge Omni pair as "unacceptable" was a flagrant, politically motivated hit job, for example. They hated Chrysler because of the loan guarantees Lee Iaccoca was campaigning for and took it out on his cars.

Are we talking about the same Dodge Omni that basically doesn't exist anywhere anymore despite a run of 12 model years because they all rusted out 6 months after they drove off the lot? While the same vintage of Honda are all over the place still? I'm pretty sure across the board that 80's Chryslers sucked buckets of rear end without anyone needing to have any personal grudges...

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