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ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

Dross posted:

What is Kraid doing here, anyway? Is there a whole species of Kraids?

According to the post-game unlockable things he's a clone of some kind.

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ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

Darko posted:

Finally started playing this, am stuck on Kraid because I have to claw hand to charge, move, aim, and shoot simultaneously. And then sometimes she just refuses to duck, making me take a giant hit. I didn't have any issues really at all thus far, but with having to avoid so much, I'm finally hitting a wall.

Note that I may have gotten there two early since I only have two energy tanks. However, it annoys me because I know the pattern and should be able to beat him easily but can't because of the control layout (as reference, I speedrun Fusion and Zero Mission for fun, so I'm not new to the series) and my hands literally hurt after a few tries.

I guess I don't get this complaint because you don't need to claw hand. The weak points can he shot directly.

Admittedly I play Devil May Cry so this is like Baby Mode compared to the hell that is Nero

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

CharlestheHammer posted:

Also I’m sad Samus Metroid Hand isn’t gonna be a thing

It still could be. At the end of she presumably got the ability to control Metroidness rather than lost it entirely.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

At very least they have a reason to keep using the name Metroid Since it is established it is Chozo for "Ultimate warrior" and that sure describes Samus.

Slowpoke! posted:

Bought this game and played about an hour so far. Does the game always make you go into an angled view when you charge the Omega beam?

Yes, it's part of how those work since your goal is to find an area that allows you to either stream or pile on the charge.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

TaurusOxford posted:

Metroid is a series that you replay for better times/100%/low% completions to get your monetary value.

Not really. It was always known that Samus got Chozo DNA as a child so she could survive on Zebes (and it also gave her her superhuman abilities), but we never knew who gave her the DNA prior to Dread.

Yeah Metroid is one of the origins of the entire concept of Speedrunning and is usually designed around that (especially the 2D games.)

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

Lady Radia posted:

This game was so loving good. Just cleared at 9 hours and about 58%. Not sure I understood the end, the X helped her and controlled her Metroid DNA? or?

The Chozo it possessed had the ability to control Metroids. Based off its mannerisms it somehow either took over or guided the X to Samus, who then absorbed it, unlocking the ability to control Metroids and thus herself.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

The cloak is not an instant win button. Samus's extreme mobility and speed allow her to outpace Emmi's pretty easily and your goal is to reach the point where you can lose sight of them. Even then you don't want to stand still.

I think the #1 thing people get wrong about the cloak is that the invisibility is not the primary feature it offers. It's the lack of sound when moving.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

EMMIs will eventually trend towards your location but that is something a lot of 'being hunted' games do because it would be boring as poo poo to have something hunting you that just sits at the other side of the map forever.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

I genuinely have no idea how people play other games if Dread has too complex controls. Like I xan understand accessiblity but people act like pressing two buttons is the greatest challenge for all time and not a literal basic part of gaming

Like have you ever played a FPS? A Mega Man game? God forbid yoy discuss something like a fighting game, Monster Hunter, MMO or character action game.

Like at the absolute most you need to press two shoulder buttons and a face button and that forces you to stand still while doing it.

ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 18:28 on Oct 16, 2021

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

AfricanBootyShine posted:

lol, you might as well turn in your antifa av at this point dude

not all people have full use of both of their hands

Fortunately that is not what I was saying at all. Accessibility controls are a wonderful thing and should be included wherever possible and it is a failing of Dread (and every game that lacks them) not to have good accessibility features. However the complaints about Metroid Dread inevitably boil down to "The controls are too confusing and bad" more often than they do "This game should have accessibility features to make it easier for disabled gamers to play."

It's pretty lovely to frame it as "Well you just hate people without the full use of both their hands, you fake leftist" when a good number of the people discussing this have made it clear their complaint is not based off a personal disability.

You genuinely are trying to say Metroid Dread requires more reflexes than Dark Souls does which is a statement I think only makes sense if you've played so much Dark Souls you've lost the idea of what the baseline difficulty of the game is. You can built to make it *easier* but you're still going to have good enough timing to dodge/parry/block attacks successfully which have a tighter window than Metroid Dread does. Like Metroid Dread's counter window is a mile long and the only things it does that require very specific precision are a handful of shinespark puzzles, most of which are more about understanding the poorly explained technique than anything else.


ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 20:24 on Oct 16, 2021

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

Roadie posted:

Put fire on ZR, change the weapon usage to be on the D-pad or a selection toggle on L and R.

This is something that they have done before and it comes up extremely often as a flaw. Like one of the biggest complaints about Super Metroid is that you have to swap to missiles or grappling. That is specifically why they have those controls in this game because people didn't like it when they didn't.

Roadie posted:

This is not some insurmountable hurdle, FPSes have been doing it for ages.

Metroid is primarily a 2D platformer. FPSes have little to no platforming and people usually complain when they do.

The reason FPSes have their controls on the shoulder buttons is because they are dedicated to two stick controls which means your thumbs are usually occupied. They don't use the face buttons not because the face buttons are verboten but because it is the easier method of control for the game design. 2D games trend towards the face button a lot more because they are not defaulting to using the right analog stick for camera control and thus can design their control scheme around it.

ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 20:32 on Oct 16, 2021

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

Feels Villeneuve posted:

i think it's mainly a problem in Super because it's a) the select button which sucks, and b) selects between all your weapons including two types of missiles, and things you would never use in an intense fight like the grappling beam.


i think you could get away with a beam/missile toggle button but i don't have a huge problem with the game controls as is. especially once i figured out you could kind of hipfire with the missiles charged

I mean I 100% agree that "Missile/Beam toggle" over hold should be an option, but I think that is true of every single game where you need to hold something down regularly. (I also wish you could just set controls to auto-charge instead of having to hold the button down the entire time but this is a problem I've had with charge shot design going back to Mega Man.)

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

AfricanBootyShine posted:

You're a fake-rear end leftist because you're talking over disabled people. Pop into /r/disabledgamers sometime and see what kind of rigs people setup to get around poorly designed controls/controllers. Switch has consistently been the worst of the current gen of consoles.

I have a progressive movement disorder that's been eating away at my reflexes over the past few years. and at some point i'm not going to be able to play games like dread, which sucks, but is something I've grown to accept. I had to give up on seikiro because I couldn't get parry timing down consistently. And I'd chalk it up to the disorder because I was able to plat revengeance back in 2014. TBH what I'd really want are options like Celeste, where if there is a specific mechanic that you're unable to consistently get down, you can tune it to be easier. And if a tiny indie studio can pull that poo poo off, a first party Nintendo game can. Esp when Nintendo sells this image of being a console for everyone (even though they're the loving worst when it comes to accessibility).

What irks me about dread is that it doesn't even do the bare minimum of letting you remap controls. Nintendo's 'fix' is to do at the system level which isn't one.

FWIW, I'm about to finish this game, all that's left are the last series of boss battles. I enjoyed it but it reflects really badly on Nintendo as a company imo.

I think it's genuinely lovely of you to use that as a cudgel because you've shifted the goalposts from what you originally said.

"Really enjoying the game in spite of puzzling developer choices. The controls layout is hella awkward, and remembering in the middle of a boss battle how to properly fire the storm missiles. Holding down three buttons while aiming and dodging and also remembering to release X first, NOT R, because then you'll just shoot your beam instead!"

You followed it up by discussing the poor accessibility options like lack of colorblind, which is 100% agreed with, but your original complaint was that it was too confusing to remember the controls, not that you were unable to use them.

If you don't find the controls comfortable then that is awful and I am super sorry for you. You are absolutely correct that Nintendo is lovely about accessibility on almost every level. But going into personal attacks because I was responding to what you wrote is entirely unnecessary.

ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 20:49 on Oct 16, 2021

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

AfricanBootyShine posted:

I don't have to announce that I'm disabled every time I post. I'm only sorry that you bought into git gud.

FWIW, if bad gamers and journalists are having problems with a game, disabled people are probably going to be having the same issues as well. I'm not accusing you of this specifically, but people siding with multibillion dollar corporations and the most toxic aspects of gaming over people who aren't as hardcore or that are disabled is pretty poo poo. And tbh I've found that on this forum, Nintendo stans are some of the worst at this.

I didn't want you to have to and I'm sorry if it came across that way. I was probably also prepared to read what you said in the wrong manner because of other things I've read but that still isn't fair to you and I apologize.

And I absolutely agree with that! I think accessibility in games is a 100% important thing. I think all games should include as many features as they can reliably get working and is a genuine failure of any game developer not to have those features. It pisses me off that Nintendo is so terrible about this stuff. I think everyone should be able to enjoy every game if at all remotely reasonably possible and it is the developer's job to assure that happens.

I absolutely wasn't trying to say "Git Gud" either but I can see how it came across that way and that's my own fault. I apologize as well.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

TeaJay posted:

The last boss is a real pain, huh

In the first phase what gets me is his fill-the-room- attack if you are too far, and he follows it with the three hit combo, which corners me quite often. Pretty hard to escape. I guess when his aura shifts it's just a matter of waiting out the melee counter.

Made it to the second phase a few times, but the bullet storm attack gets me every time. I'm basically trying to circle around him just to avoid the damage.

I'm sure this sounds dumb but you're remembering to Flash Step right? Not that it makes it Easy Mode but I've heard a lot of people forgetting to do that in combat.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

I think the problem with 2.5D is that it is much easier for it to look worse than traditional 2D. Like with sprites a lot of the time at worst you'll get an ugly art style, with bad 2.5D you get muddy messes with indistinct depth.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

How did this post twice?

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

Mr. Nice! posted:

My joycon is futzy in one direction (down and to the right). If i want to trigger a shinespark running to the right I have to start pointing up and to the right to make it work. Could be a similar issue for you.

Yeah it might genuinely be an issue with Joycon Drift (tm)

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

Asterite34 posted:

People seem shocked that the game that put a lot of work into making Samus' movement control fluidly and feel satisfying to traverse the environment put in enemies that force you to rapidly traverse the level in a lethal game of tag and use those skills rather than slowly skulk around hiding from vision cones like it's Metal Gear Solid
I think this is a result of stealth games overwhelmingly treating being spotted as a failure instead of a core part of mechanics

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

CharlestheHammer posted:

I think the game wants you to use the ability it gave you instead of this scenario where it was intentionally designed not to be used.

But that’s just me I guess

Having an ability doesn't mean that ability is optimal for every situation. The cloak is A) Specifically introduced after you've already encounter EMMIs and are given a gameplay-focused tutorial on running away and B) Is slow and reduces your movement. Even the cutscenes show it as a brief "don't look here" thing and not Samus's optimal method of movement.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

CharlestheHammer posted:

But the discussion is if the hide and seek method was intentional which yes it would be. If your running and gunning (the alternative suggested) you wouldn’t stop to use the cloak as it doesn’t help that strategy at all

Yes it does?

The cloak is only effective if you break the EMMI's line of sight. You do this by running away. If you break its line of sight then you have options to use the cloak to avoid it in case you need to double back.

Like it isn't one or the other. "You are supposed to run away from EMMIs but if you run into a situation where you're going the wrong way/need to double back then breaking the Line of Sight means you can use the cloak to throw the EMMI off and change your pathing." The cloak both allows you to hide long enough for it to run past or to hide your footsteps so you can start moving in another direction without instantly alerting it.

ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 17:37 on Nov 6, 2021

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

CharlestheHammer posted:

Why would you double back?

There is no point to that. Those rooms are hilariously linear

Because multiple people in this thread alone have talked about accidentally running into a corner?

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

Developers have always patched bugs when possible. It is the reason you have some runs done on earlier versions of a game even in cart days. I am pretty sure all speedrunners know that any exploits found in a moderm games launch month may not exist forever

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

I actually *really* like the Tier 1 suit in Dread. I think it looks fantastic.

Dread is the first game I think had a solid design comparable to the Super design.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

Samus has literally never felt more powerful during standard gameplay than in Dredd. I genuinely am not sure what you are expecting short of something that is not Metroid.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

Augus posted:

Samua feels extremely badass to play as in dread too, not just to look at

Yeah standard play is moving swiftly through an area blowing everything to shreds and punching anything that gets too close in the face before making it explode.

I've beem running it for speed purposes lately and it is genuinely shocking to me how good it it is at making you feel crazy capable from the start.

Even the EMMI get less threatening. By this point I can reliably hit their escape mechanic with little trouble so even the deadly instakill bots get kicked in the face.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

I feel like it's worth noting that even Doomguy begins as a dude with a pistol and some anger issues over a dead bunny who is fighting literal monsters from Hell. Part of the appeal of the character is that he is hilariously outgunned and still kicks everything's rear end because he is just that angry about his dead bunny.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

LividLiquid posted:

Y'all, I'm not telling you how you should feel about the game when I tell you how I felt about the game.

I know it's the internet, but c'mon, now.

You don't actually get to pull this card when you posted things like "And if that is what's interesting, why do you think so, and why poo poo on all the little girls who grew up with, or could grow up with, a protagonist who has their poo poo together outside of cutscenes?" That goes beyond giving your opinion and pretty bluntly trying to imply misogyny from people who liked the game.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

I Am Just a Box posted:

As an aside, these cutscenes struck me as an odd bit of pacing. The instructional nature of the cutscene introducing the white EMMI is so obvious and natural both for the player and diegetically that it's easy to forget, like here, that it's not the typical player's first encounter with an EMMI. The first EMMI is the busted one that can't climb, and Samus never tries to shoot it with anything during its cutscene. It feels very vestigial, like the white EMMI's introduction was made first (possibly for the reveal trailer), but then they later decided they wanted an earlier introduction to the basics of the EMMIs and made the busted one, and forgot or didn't have time to move the cutscene's very simple lesson of "shooting this doesn't work, all you got is dodge and counter" from the white EMMI to the busted one.

Player experience still works fine, it just seems so glaring that a slight design tweak would have laid the EMMIs out even more naturally.

I think that is because the first is to tutorial the grab/escape mechanic. It is weird though.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

Honestly they have a pretty good explanation for why you use Metroids without the monsters.

"Metroid is the Chozo word for 'Ultimate Warrior' and thus refers to the biggest badass Chozo in the room, i.e: Samus."

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

girl dick energy posted:

You could make a case that she knew from the very moment he called her 'Samus' instead of 'Lady.'

I think that is probably accurate considering how important the opposite was in Fusion

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

Triskelli posted:

Is there any good depictions of how mucked up Samus must be after all the different experiments that have been done to her?

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

TaurusOxford posted:

God this game is fun.



I have honestly replayed it through more than any other Metroid game. I am hard pressed to think of a game where the movement just felt this loving good.


(Also: Isn't your new avatar kind of a spoiler? I mean it's Metroid so who gives a drat but still. )

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

TaurusOxford posted:

Sure I guess, but the game has also been out for about 2 1/2 months, plus the "gag" of the avatar kinda loses all context for being Dread-related or even Metroid-related unless you're at least half-way through Dread's story.

Fair point. It's awesome, I just didn't want you to get dinged for it or something.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

One thing I've noticed is that Flash Step as a combat dodge doesn't seem to register for a lot of folks. Watching LPs and such people just don't seem to use it outside of certain areas.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

You don't need to grind. Use what you get. It is more fun than trying to farm every drop.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

Yeah that is just a bad design decision. Surprised they never fixed it.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

Hollow Knight just genuinely needed a better map system. I get what they were going for but it made the basic act of exploring the unknown kind of frustrating and tedious in a way that Metroidvanias shouldn't be. Play long enough and you don't really need the map but just have a drat map that fills out normally and let the bug map dude mark important things you might have missed if you want it that way.

Also don't use a goddamn charm slot on basic functionality.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

I finished all of Hollow Knight including the DLC. It is a fun game but my complaints about it are not based around it being too hard.

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ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

MJeff posted:

Boss Rush mode sounds really cool (Dread mode seems a little redundant but I guess it's a more straightforward way to do a 0% Hard Mode, soooo, sure?). I'm glad Dread is getting updates, but, uh, is anybody else getting a little concerned that we haven't heard a word about Metroid Prime 4 in three years? :lol:

From what we know the game basically started over from Scratch. A lot of games are in development for a long time before we hear about them and Prime 4 is like the first ever game I can think of where they went "No actually this sucks poo poo, starting from 0" after announcement.

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