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 Welcome to the Fifth Edition of the Something Awful Board Game Thread! The previous edition of the thread is here, but it's now out of print and going for like $200 on eBay, sheesh. Here we talk about board games, card games, and other forms of analog in-person entertainment. The face of board games has changed a lot in the last seven years, with the advent of app-supported games and the prevalence of playing online. Though honestly if you're plugged into the hobby well enough to know that already, feel free to take the rest of the OP off and go to the pub. I'm looking to proselytize to some new potential converts to the wonderful world of board games. People who might ask a question like this: Wait, do you mean like Monopoly? Sort of? Many of us have some experience with board games from childhood, possibly playing old games like Monopoly and Candy Land, or with latter-day toys such as The Grape Escape. Similarly, many have negative experiences with these games, and that's probably because lots of them are just not very good. Please don't let those experiences dissuade you. Today, board games are far beyond these stodgy preconceptions. They are not instruments to make children be quiet for 2 hours anymore; they can be quality entertainment products for all ages. Even if you have bad memories of being stuck with just Baltic Avenue and $4 to your name, don't worry. With the advent of so-called hobbyist or designer board games, the possibility space is so much greater than cheap toys for babby. A lot of smart people have looked into what makes games interesting and/or fun, then set about to create new games expounding upon those new ideas. In the same way that American gridiron football had different rules in the 1930s, board games have similarly been updated to make them better and more entertaining. There are now board games for essentially everyone and anyone. The hobby has been growing in popularity for some time, with some choice games from the 60s through the 80s, but the hobby got a big boost in the mid-nineties with the release of the smash hit Catan. In those past 25+ years, hobbyist board gaming has grown into a multi-billion dollar industry. Recently, designer board games have even started to appear in big box stores like Target and Walmart, demonstrating the broad market for these products. I'm new. What do I need to know to start? There are so many things to consider when getting a game. You could find a game that has a theme you like, but there's no guarantee it's actually mechanically sound and lots of good games are theme-less or have poor thematic integration. You could try and find a game with a mechanism you find fun, but early in your hobbyist tenure you might not even know what you like yet. You could look online for "top board game lists" but sometimes those lists are extremely broad and contain some real clunkers you won't know to avoid. Any of these pitfalls could cause you to feel like you've wasted your entertainment dollar. Based on this, in my opinion the two most important things for a beginner are:
Complexity is important because some games are considerably more complicated than the classics you may remember. This complexity is normally discussed in terms of 'weight': Light for low-complexity games, Medium for more complex games, and Heavy for even more complex games, and sometimes shades in between like 'medium-heavy' and so on. This usually matters for the sake of comparison. For instance, a game like Root is considerably more complicated than a game like Through the Desert which is still arguably more complicated than Monopoly. Not everyone is prepared to learn a lot of rules to play a game, particularly if they have not played many games before. That is perfectly understandable. Fortunately, there are plenty of excellent games that are simple, elegant and accessible. There is one other "sub-category" of game you might hear about so let's discuss that quick: "Party Games". Party Games are almost always games with very low complexity and very high player counts. They are meant to be approachable and accept high player counts, and there is some overlap with 'light' games. Among 'classic' board games you may have heard of, these are more like Scattegories or Charades rather than Risk. There is a lot of frivolous junk in the party game space, but there are also many modern party games still have excellent design behind them, even without the rules overhead. One such example is the phenomenal smash-hit Codenames. If you select a game with a player count that works for your nascent board game group and a complexity level you are prepared to tackle, you are much less likely to feel like you wasted your money. Where can I get this information about player count and weight? BoardGameGeek.com is the Internet's largest board game database. If you know the title of a game, you can type it into the search bar and find the page for that game. That page will have lots of information about it, including player counts and complexity. Complexity is not an exact science, so the listed complexity are based on a poll of BGG users. It's the closest we have to the way the general public feels overall. There are also suggested player counts also based on a poll. For instance, the party game Codenames technically says it's a 2-8 player game on the box, but the community says that it is best at 6 or 8, and not worth playing at 2. (For two player Codenames, pick up the terrific Codenames Duet instead.) BGG also often has useful documents like rulebook PDFs. They also have forums for discussion, which are handy because they often have answers to rules questions, sometimes even answered by the designer or publisher themselves. BGG is an invaluable resource to any hobbyist board gamer. Hey, don't tell me what to do, I'm not afraid of complexity! That's perfectly fair. If you came from TCGs like Magic: the Gathering or miniatures games like Warhammer 40K, you might be able to dive into the deep end a little more than someone trying board games for the first time. This OP is meant to be a resource for someone in this situation: "My sister-in-law said she plays board games? I don't get it. Do we have a thread about that?" If that's not you,  !I'm the opposite of that last person. This sounds scary! Yeah, it can be intimidating. Worse still, like many other hobbies there is a certain prideful, gatekeeping insularity from certain entrenched individuals that will make things seem unapproachable. Soapbox time: Just because you are not prepared to play a complicated game does not make you any less worthy of the joy that is playing board games. Board games are for everyone but not every game is for every person, and that's okay. The important thing is that you and your friends have fun gaming. Lots of gamers, including some thread denizens, have forgotten this or they fail to imagine how difficult learning can be when you don't have 20+ years of experience understanding the 'grammar' of games. Don't let anyone make you feel small just because you like simpler games. Game complexity is a sliding scale: a game like Eclipse is way, way, way more complicated than most classic board games and I would not put it in front of a new gamer. However, it is still considerably less complicated than thread favorites Food Chain Magnate or 1830. So, keep that all in mind when someone tells you that some game "isn't really that complicated" in a dismissive manner. If you're unsure if they're trolling or not, check the BGG weight to get an idea of the consensus. I don't like the idea of teaching a game to others. It's too much pressure! I get ya. I have been the designated rules monkey for my game group for years, and I still get anxious about it. If you end up joining an existing group, they may already have a teacher and you can focus on learning, but if you're trying to create a board game group yourself, that responsibility will probably fall on you. Here are a few beginners tips for teaching board games:
There is! Multiple YouTube channels exist that create how-to-play rules videos. Watch It Played! Gaming Rules Jon Gets Games Or you can check out some reviewers who often offer a simple rules explanation as part of their critique: Shut Up and Sit Down No Pun Included ActuaLol ProZD (This is a comedy/variety channel, but he does a lot of board game content too.) One' actual play' show to recommend is on BGG's YouTube Channel called "Game Night." There's a lot of other stuff on their channel like previews, etc, but for an example of the Game Night show itself, here is them all playing Just One. Of course, not every content creator can make time for every game. It's probably easiest to just type "GAME NAME how to play" or "GAME NAME playthrough" into YouTube. Even if it's not one of these, you might find a video from the publisher or even just some random fan.  Some other miscellaneous questions:What if I want to play games but I am simply not very competitive / way too competitive to have any fun? Are there games where we play as a team? Yes! Co-operative board games are fairly popular and offer gamers non-competitive experiences. Generally, players are working together to accomplish some sort of task. As you may imagine, they skew towards light to medium. These are perfect if you've got a less-entrenched gamer in your life or if you just want to engage in jolly cooperation. Some of the most popular games in the genre are the 2008 release Pandemic and 2019's The Crew. I saw this game on Kickstarter and it looks soooooo good! Should I back it? If you're new to the hobby, I do not suggest you support any board games on Kickstarter or other crowdfunding platforms. Kickstarter weaponizes FOMO against its users and often presents games with flashy components and then provides games with under-baked rules. There are some genuine, thread-approved crowdfunding success stories like Root, but there are so many others that fail to deliver what they promise, sometimes quite literally. There is no reason for a new player to feel the need to engage with crowdfunding games because there are just so many great games that you can buy and play right now. Don't worry about missing out. If the game is actually truly excellent and there is enough demand, it will come to retail or there will be a second crowdfunding campaign for a reprint. Bu-bu-but Uncle Magnetic North, Kickstarter is the only thing that fills the yawning void inside my empty black heart! Is there some way I could justify supporting Kickstarters anyway? First, it's important to check the "Inexplicable Crypto Baloney in the Trad Games Space" heading in the "Responsibility and Social Issues in Gaming" post to see an additional important reason why this thread specifically does not recommend supporting Kickstarter. However, it would be silly to ignore that that Kickstarter has a big place in the hobby so boycotting them is going to be daunting for some gamers. Thankfully, there's a sweet 'lifehack' that they don't want you to know about! For the uninitiated, a 'pledge manager' is a separate service that comes after a crowdfunding campaign which lets people finalize and customize what they wish to receive. These are virtually always open ended, letting you pay above your pledge level if you decided you wanted to get a bit more. Why does this matter? Well, many campaigns will let you pledge for just $1 for access to the pledge manager. This will depend on the project; some just let you see the backer-only updates. If they do grant you access to the pledge manager, you can add-on whatever you actually wanted. Why bother with this extra step? Well, apparently Kickstarter gets a cut from the project itself (5% of your pledge), but they do not get a cut from anything going through the pledge manager. That means, if you can pledge for $1 and then get everything else you want through the pledge manager, Kickstarter only gets five cents. It's up to you if you think this is satisfactory, but it's good to know that sometimes you have options. (Thanks to Mayveena for bringing this to the thread's attention.) Wow, some of these modern board games are actually quite expensive. Yep. Part of this is because games are a luxury good. However, lots of games are fairly cheap, around $20-$40 USD. Obviously, everyone's discretionary budget is different, and perhaps even $20 is a lot of money to you. The important thing is that you don't feel that if you buy a $100 game, it will be five times more fun than a $20 game. That is simply not the case. I cannot deny that there is a certain 'toy factor' from having nice chunky components in a game, but the things that generate the fun are the rules and the players, not some mostly pointless plastic models. Also, sometimes people who tout extremely expensive games (>$250) are trying to convince themselves that the purchase was worth it. While you're starting out, I suggest sticking with cheaper games, especially since you might not like some of them. It's better to buy 5 games and only like 3 than buy 1 game for the same price and take that same 40% risk of disliking it. What's this I hear about 'Legacy' games? 'Campaign' games? 'Narrative' games? Broadly speaking:
There are a lot of these games out there now, and they can vary greatly. If you are worried about the replay value or potential waste, be sure you know what you're in for before buying. Wait, does this mean board games can have spoilers in them now? Yes, though classic board games could not be spoiled except by flipping the table or swearing at Grandma, it is possible to spoil the fun of some narrative board games by revealing secrets ahead of time. When discussing the plot details of a narrative game, please be cautious about what you share and use spoiler tags. The proper use of spoiler tags is like this (Game Name) Game spoiler here. All my friends live far away. Why aren't the board games scientists working to fix this? They are! It is possible to play board games through the computer. In fact, there are platforms that you can use for free and will run right in your web browser: no installation required. Also, all of these services have gotten permission from the publisher, so it's all totally above board. Most of them also support "asynchronous" play, meaning players can take their turns on their own time, and players will be alerted when it's their turn. It's slower, but more convenient if you can't get everyone around the virtual table at once. Board Game Arena*: The biggest and best. It has the most advanced tech and the most games, though many popular games are behind a subscription paywall. They also get an astrisk* because they have been bought by Asmodee. Still, it would be disingenuous for me to suggest any board game playing site above them; they are top of the class. Tabletopia: A very pretty option. Unlike the other options on this list, Tabletopia is a platform where you have to manually manipulate pieces to some degree. There is limited rules enforcement (if any at all), so you'll need to know the game for yourself to prevent accidental cheating. Also, like BGA, Tabletopia is free with some paywalls and can be supported by subscription. Two small sites worth mentioning: Yucata Lots of games, pretty darn good interfaces. 100% free. Boîte à Jeux Reasonable interfaces, a decent number of games. 100% free, but will be closing down eventually due to being unable to update the site for security. There are some other sites focused on heavy games that I have not tried but goons recommend: 18xx.games BoardGameCore Rally The Troops SlothNinja Outside of these sites, the other option for online games is to see if an app has been made for your board game. Apps mostly exist for very popular games, and most of the time I'd only suggest buying one if you are pretty confident you'll love it since they can be pricey. Hands down, the gold standard of board games apps is the one made for Through the Ages: A New Story of Civilzation. The app implementation is top notch; it is coherent, usable, convenient, and even contains a few minor rules alterations to better support asynchronous online multiplayer. It's also worthwhile on its own because it's an extremely complicated game to play in meatspace. How complicated? It has a higher BGG weight rating than the two games I used earlier to exemplify extremely complicated games. However, the app does tons of the fiddly admin for you. It also has incredibly welcome undo capabilities so you can manipulate your turn all you like in ways that would be much more difficult with the analog board. This allows you to play so much more TTA than you'd ever get to do otherwise. Hey, isn't there another popular platform for playing board games online? Check the "Berserk Games / Tabletop Simulator" heading in the "Responsibility and Social Issues in Gaming" post to see why this thread does not recommend that platform. Apps and websites won't work for me because I either hate technology or have no friends! You can play board games even without those pathetic creatures of meat and bone, panting and sweating, and without the perfect, immortal machine. 1 player board games are a niche within a niche, but they have been growing in popularity in the past several years. Some games can be made solo with an expansion, some come with additional content in the box already, and some creative gamers have created their own rules for turning non-solo games into solitaire experiences. Beyond those, there are also many dedicated purpose-built solo games as well (as well as some solo games masquerading as multiplayer games). Playing by yourself is not for everyone, especially since it removes the camaraderie and social aspect that many of us like best about this hobby. Still, if you've got the inclination to try them, they might surprise you. People are talking about a game, and I, having touched the monkey monolith, know that it is actually... A Bad Game! What should I do? Just focus on the game, not the person. Be concrete. If you think the rulebook was bad, or certain mechanisms are unintuitive or the pieces are cheap and fiddly or there's a misprint or if you just think some other game is better, say that. We're here to help each other. More information lets other thread denizens make informed purchasing decisions. Someone made fun of my precious baby, the love of my life, my very favorite that I truly know is... A Good Game! What should I do? Just focus on the game, not the person. Be specific. If you find certain mechanisms clever or you feel it's an improvement on another similar game or you and your friends add a little roleplaying or voices to spice things up or if you just love-love-love the art, say that. We're here to help each other. More information lets other thread denizens make informed purchasing decisions. What's with this thread and trains? Train games are a trend going back to before Catan and continuing into today. They are usually very complex games about managing train companies in the 1800s, with track laying and and financial market manipulation. They are commonly named after a year in the 19th century, as they tend to follow from games named 1829 and 1830. The genre generally gets called '18XX' games. If you're new to the hobby, don't worry about them just yet. Get comfortable in the water first. They will still be there once you're ready for them, I promise. Why does this thread love heavy games so much? I think it's due to two reasons: 1: Discussion threads will attract the enthusiastic with a wider breadth of experiences. 2: People who get to play a lot of games (multiple times weekly, even) eventually become accustomed to the feeling and start chasing bigger and bigger highs. You know, like drugs! What's this about Zendo? Zendo is a strange game based around pure logic, while simultaneously being heavily reliant on the central player being creative... but not too creative. Most who have played it have a love-hate relationship with it. In this thread, it's usually hate. Forums are old tech, Grandpa! Where else I talk about board games in cyberspace? We have a Discord! Whoa, this OP is way too long! Sure is! If you've got 20 minutes, Actuallol created a an excellent video about the pitfalls facing new board gamers. It covers a huge amount of what was said here, to the point that I now think Jon Purkis is secretly a goon  The Catan Joke remains forbidden in this thread! Magnetic North fucked around with this message at 12:25 on Jan 5, 2024 |
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 Unfortunately, the purchase of such luxury goods is not without a certain level of responsibility to the consumer. For a long time, games have been an insular and hostile place, not just board games. In the last few years, board gaming has worked to become more inclusive in many ways and has been met with vociferous resistance from certain members of the old guard. So, before we continue, let me say without equivocation: Black Lives Matter Believe Women Stop Asian Hate Love is Love Trans Rights are Human Rights End Islamophobia Representation Matters Gaming is for Everybody If you disagree, feel free to keep that to yourself. You will not find many friends in this thread. Below is a list of things in the board gaming space: Some are concepts, some are individuals, some are events, and they all are provided here to inform your purchasing decisions. Perhaps a designer or publisher espouses views you consider dangerous, or a publisher engages in deceptive business practices. Those are rational reasons to take your business elsewhere. Of course, everyone has different things that are important to them, and they will choose to draw a line some places but not others. I'm not here to engage in prescriptive groupthink. However, in the last few years, I constantly hear two things:
For some members of this this thread, I know that not buying certain games is going to be a big ask. If you simply cannot resist despite having a concern, then consider buying them second-hand even if it's a pain in the rear end. Also, if you think your friends would care about these things, be sure to keep other players in the loop as well. Finally, I'm no expert in any of these social issues: I am just trying to learn from and to elevate these important ideas. If anything in this OP is wrong or misattributed, please PM me. For claims about specific entities like companies and designers, I'm trying to include "receipts" but it's also important you do your own research. It is possible that some of this information is incorrect, misconstrued or a flat-out hoax, so please consider everything below with a gigantic 'allegedly' in front of it. I will endeavor to correct any demonstrable mistakes brought to my attention. Let's begin with the primary reason I wanted to include this section. I've seen many goons express regret buying his games after hearing more about the sort of person he is. Hopefully, this will help at least one person avoid that upsetting situation. - - - Phil Eklund and Ion Games / Sierra Madre Games: Phil Eklund is a game designer and former rocket scientist, arguably most famous for the Pax series of games and for making extremely complicated games. For a while now, he has been known for injecting his own opinionated screeds into his rulebooks. For one thing, this certainly muddies the water of the "death of the author" talk about separating art from artist and how only the game itself matters; if you buy an Eklund game, some portion of your money is being spent to provide yourself with right-wing propaganda. However, he is also vociferous on social media on the platforms that he hasn't been banned from. Here are some samples of what he's said and comments on his words by others, grouped by category: Covid-19 conspiracies: Twitter thread Screenshots: 1 2 3 4 Transphobia: Huge Twitter thread Pseudohistorical Slavery Revisionism: BGG Thread (see point 6 especially) & BGG Thread (see point 13 especially) Pro-Colonialism BGG Thread (A discussion of takes.) Climate Change Denial: BGG Thread (A discussion of takes.) Gamifying Sexual Assault: Tweet Antisemitism / Holocaust Denial: Twitter Screenshots: 1 2 3 (Screenshot 3 above one is not written by Eklund, but is directed to him, showing the company he attracts. Normally that would not be worthy of inclusion, except that Eklund chose to like this post.) If all that's not enough, Twitter user SeanFranco_ (source of some of the above receipts) has helpfully collated and screenshotted a kitchen sink of a thread containing Eklund espousing essentially every awful thing that a person could possibly believe. Please don't try to get semantic with me about the terms 'climate change denial' or 'antisemitism' or start splitting hairs. Using any euphemisms raised by proponents of these ideas would make me complicit in their scheme to legitimize them. So, I am using the generally accepted terms from Wikipedia, and for those that don't exist broadly (like the slavery and assault topics) I endeavored to describe in brief, clear terms based on similar existing topics. For instance, I called the slavery topic 'psuedohistorical' because Wikipedia describes The Lost Cause of the Confederacy in that way. Where does Ion fit into this? Well, his company, Sierra Madre Games, was sold to Swedish board game company Ion Games, because Eklund's business was collapsing by his own admission, which seems strange that such an advocate for the free market would rationally allow himself to get screwed over like that, but I digress. I cannot find attribution to this last part, but the reports from the field say that part of the contract with Ion Games gives Eklund a salary rather than the more common practice of royalties from sales. If this is to be believed, that would mean that Ion's success is much more directly tied to Eklund than is typical, and that buying any Ion game could potentially be putting money in Eklund's pocket even if he did not design it. So, if any of those laundry list of things matter to you, and I would say that at least one of them probably should, then maybe don't buy from Ion Games or Eklund. - - - Jeff Bergen and The Gaming Goat: The Gaming Goat is a games retailer and publisher owned by Jeff Bergen that has been low-level controversial for the last few years. A helpful user on BGG has collated these in this post. This includes mocking the use of pronouns, mocking BLM protests, and making seemingly threatening statements to someone who got a chargeback. This all simmered under the radar until recently. In September of 2021 their bad behavior exploded in visibility when they launched a Kickstarter with a white supremacist dog-whistle in its art assets. This was noticed by Suzzane Sheldon of the Dice Tower on her Twitter. It picked up speed on BGG, and various board game media personalities tried to reach out to the designer in good faith before realizing he was unable or unwilling to take the situation seriously. During this, Jeff Bergen decided to make what appears to be a barely-veiled rape threat to Suzzane. This situation eventually lead to them being banned from BGG, expelled from GenCon and lost a few business partners, including store franchisees in St. Paul and Egan MN, Austin TX, and Denver CO. In 2023, there was some sort of sale that lead to the company now being called Knight and Day games. Whether this new party is complicit or culpable could be debated, but the new owners appear to be saying the right things. So, if any of that matters to you, then maybe don't buy from The Gaming Goat retail stores (that have not rebranded) or their published games. - - - The Broken Token: The Broken Token is not a board game publisher per se, but is instead a maker of aftermarket custom inserts used to help organize some large and complicated games. There is no need to belabor this point: (cw: sexual assault, abuse, seriously the story behind this link is harrowing) credible allegations of sexual assault and abuse have been directed at the now-former CEO of The Broken Token. I believe he is still the owner, and only stepped down as CEO after firing 13 of his employees when TBT lost very large contracts due to this behavior. So, if any of that matters to you, then maybe don't buy from The Broken Token. - - - Tabletop Simulator and Berserk Games Tabletop Simulator (TTS) is a video game allows players to manually manipulate virtual board game pieces with physics simulation. It is used to play board games remotely. Unlike many other similar products, it is also an open platform, which means anyone can create any board game they want on the platform. The downside of this is that users can add games to the client without necessarily having the approval of the publishers, essentially making it a pirating platform. However, that alone would not really justify giving it any special attention here. In early 2022, Twitter user xoeallred described their negative experiences using global chat in TTS. After facing kicks and temporary bans for mentioning being gay, they sought an explanation as to why this was happening. After receiving no answer via email, eventually on Discord, someone with a discord role indicating they were with Berserk claimed that sharing the fact that you are gay or trans is inappropriate on TTS while implying that trans or gay identities are somehow political or fetishistic. The Twitter user in question has helpfully saved the receipts in a Google Doc with screenshots. Upon further research, this has been the excuse from Berserk going back to at least October 2018. This story is ongoing as of the time of this writing, but thus far they released a factually incorrect non-apology, then a better yet milquetoast apology, and then many days later a better apology and donation. It remains to be seen if they will salvage the situation. This is less black-and-white as compared to the above controversies, in that this appears to (at least in part) an error, but errors still cause harm, and it would be wrong to pretend that this response will be considered satisfactory to all affected. So, if any of that matters to you, then maybe don't buy Tabletop Simulator or anything from Berserk Games. - - - Kingdom Death: Monster To quote its BGG entry: "Kingdom Death: Monster is a fully cooperative tabletop hobby game experience. Set in a unique nightmarish world devoid of most natural resources, you control a settlement at the dawn of its existence. Fight monsters, craft weapons and gear, and develop your settlement to ensure your survival from generation to generation." It is notorious in that it is extremely large, expensive, complicated, punishing, and adult. It contains lots of graphic violence, gore and nudity. Such contents would obviously raise its profile in the relatively chaste board gaming space, but having a few boobs is not why it is listed here. This game is listed here because some attest the game's materials allude to and/or explicitly contain sexual violence against women. Behind the spoiler tag are hyperlinks some  and  examples, and a description of one of the monster models. Content warning for blood, gore, violence, nudity, grotesque sexual monstrosities, sexual violence against women, women in dangerous or compromising positions, vore (yes, really). Here is an imgur gallery of some of the game's art. Additional instances are here: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 In addition, special mention should be made for the Wet Nurse, a monster of breasts and penis tentacles which includes (quoting someone who quoted the now-gone store listing in the old SA thread) "3 x accompanying suffering pregnant women that complete the tableau" in which one is specifically posed in promotional material as being violated. Here's a random blog discussing the topic with additional pictures, which contains the most damning picture that I could not find elsewhere. Additional images: 1 2 So, why even mention it? Well, this game was quite successful and pretty popular with around 25k backers amongst two KS campaigns. Like many popular pieces of media, this game has its defenders. Remember above when I said, "sometimes people who tout extremely expensive games (>$250) are trying to convince themselves that the purchase was worth it." You can probably imagine a certain type of defensiveness that may occur when being told that your very expensive item is not worth it, like a piece of sports memorabilia. Well, there is also a certain similar response that comes from being told that that something into which you have invested a lot of time is something to be ashamed of. For KDM, we have both, and the defenders are indignant and vociferous. At this point, it doesn't matter what the detractors or defenders would say. The discussion itself has been a problem for this thread and its previous iterations, so much so that the Trad Games moderation team has requested that KDM is not discussed in this thread. Please use the report function if anyone is discussing KDM. - - - Inexplicable Crypto Baloney in the Trad Games Space Unless you've been living under a rock, you've inevitably heard about the nonsense surrounding Bitcoin, Cryptocurrency, and NFTs. (For everyone else, for your own sake please get back under that rock! Also, do you need a roommate?) If you want to learn more, YouTube essayist Dan Olson put out a wildly popular video about the topic here. To save the space here attempting to explain all this malarkey, I will simply quote David Gerard, author of Attack of the 50 Foot Blockchain. "Everything to do with cryptocurrencies and blockchains is the domain of fast-talking conmen. If anyone tries to sell you on either, kick them in the nuts and run." Of course, if this silliness were merely a scam, few would care; fools and money are wont to part in innovative ways. However, this blatherskite actually affects all of us because crypto is terrible for the environment, using an absolutely preposterous amount of energy and possessing a huge carbon footprint. Much of the recent hot air expended about this is trying to deny how much hotter it will make the air: there are different schemes that claim to be less wasteful or neutralized with carbon offsets. However, unlike a person who takes an unavoidable plane trip who just wants to do their part, when discussing offsets while engaging in completely wasteful and totally unnecessary drivel just to financially speculate and try to become rich, it starts to sound like 16th century commercialized You might think that our meatspace world of traditional board games would be immune to this type of techbro garbo, but you would be wrong. Miniature-heavy publisher CMON, party game publisher Exploding Kittens and solo experience publisher Van Ryder have all announced plans to get into NFTs (and have not retracted those statements to my knowledge). Even the 100-year-old brand Bicycle, maker of regular old playing cards is getting in on it. However, this is really only newsworthy because a much bigger player also got in on it: crowdfunding platform Kickstarter. Lots and lots of board game projects go through Kickstarter, with over 230 million dollars pledged in 2020. Statements made since the announcement do not inspire confidence for various reasons. The platform's adoption of the blockchain is especially galling because there are plenty of features that Kickstarter users want and need, like a better pledge manager and community controls, which remain missing to this day. And yet they somehow find the time and energy to add this hogwash. Why? It's probably the same reason every other company is getting in on this: naked avarice completely disassociated with reality. At time of writing, Kickstarter has not walked back on their position nor have they elaborated on concrete details of any supposed benefits. Fortunately, in the months following the announcement, numerous publishers have announced plans to leave Kickstarter and go to their nascent and emboldened competitors, which include Gamefound and BackerKit. Among them are the creators of incredibly successful campaigns that raised over one million dollars, such as Unstable Unicorns, Joking Hazard, Return to Dark Tower, Spirit Island and Root. The most notable publisher to leave is Cephalofair Games, creators of Gloomhaven. They are notable because they have raised has raised over 17 million dollars through the platform, and Issac Childres explicitly called out the unilateral move to engage with blockchain tech as a reason to leave. This has no inspired penitence in the new Kickstarter CEO who does not appear to understand the real reason why people are upset. So, if any of that matters to you, then maybe don't use the Kickstarter platform, don't buy games from CMON, Exploding Kittens, or Van Ryder or purchase Bicycle playing cards. - - - Theft and Plagiarism in Board Games: As far as 'board game crimes' go, these are admittedly pretty minor. These will be the least important things I put in this OP. Honestly, including it alongside some truly heinous stuff feels somewhat counterproductive because the scope is so much different. However, I still believe that it's important in its own way, so I'm including it. Sometimes, publishers copy games. Now, anyone who's been into board games for a little while know that this type of copy-cat stuff is not necessarily unusual. There are tons of tiny and un-noteworthy stolen games, and rarely a stolen prototype. Board game mechanisms are not protected under copyright law though the contained words and images are. It's important so that when something amazing like Dominion comes around, we can get other similar but different games and also games that are categorically inferior. Game innovation is a good thing, even if the game called Innovation is bad. We should not want to stifle things too much. One positive practice is attribution in your rulebook: for instance, La Granja's rulebook thanks Michael Keller, Matthias Cramer, Carl Chudyk, Stephan Feld and Uwe Rosenberg. If you're like me and this type of stuff interests you, intellectual property disputes have a long history in board games: Khet Vs Laser Battle was a patent battle, the original Dark Tower game faced an issue regarding trade secrets and Anti-Monopoly was a long fight over trademarks. The ABA has an article about it too. There were a few instances of this bad behavior in board gaming that I think warrant mentioning. None of these likely involve anything legally actionable, but some consumers may wish to know about this. Sirlin Games: Speaking of Dominion rip-offs, Sirlin Games published Puzzle Strike, with a visual style that was a wholesale rip-off a fan-made Dominion remake. There's not much to talk about because it's super blatant. Donald X Vaccarino, designer of Dominion, tells a humorous story about meeting Sirlin and asking him about that guy. Also, in researching Sirlin for this topic, I discovered that there was another controversy: he allegedly ripped off a 1993 game from Reiner Knizia. The discussion from 10 years ago involves Penny Arcade of all people. I'm not familiar with the games, but a cursory look at the rules show they are quite similar. Whether this counts as inspiration or theft is admittedly blurrier in this case, but considering the other incident I would understand why people might not afford him the benefit of the doubt. In addition, in late 2022 he started issuing trademark claims / DMCA notices against some games with names similar to one of his own. It's something that people would probably not normally take much notice of except for his reputation of skirting IP laws himself and the fact that many feel it's ludicrous to have a trademark for a Japanese word which is a fighting game concept meaning 'to read your opponent.' Bezier Games: This company's success is built off of licensing games from foreign publishers. For background, generally if you are in one market, like Japan, and you can't bring a game to market elsewhere, such as the US, a publisher local to that market will license it from you to print themselves. Bezier did that with One Night Ultimate Werewolf (originally a Japanese game called One Night Werewolf) to great success. However, when Bezier reached out to Oink Games to publish thread favorite Insider in the US, they failed to come to terms and Bezier printed a rip-off called Werewords. Sure, okay, it's capitalism and copies happen, but not really like this. If you reach out to make an agreement and fail so that you can't publish something, you don't. Otherwise, everyone would just publish games regardless of rights issues, like Glory to Rome which is un-re-printable for reasons. This is also part of why Grail Games is in trouble with The Good Doctor K. Bezier's behavior here is a clear case of a larger publisher trying to push a smaller publisher around. "If you don't license your game with terms that we consider favorable, then please consider what a shame it would be if something happened to your sales numbers if someone printed a competitor, just saying." Mayday Games: I believe Mayday Games has been involved in several controversies in their time, but I admit am not well versed in them outside of this one. Click Clack Lumberjack (known by many other names, like Tac Tack Jack and Toc Toc Woodman) is a 2008 dexterity game designed by Justin Oh and originally published in South Korea. It was brought to the US by Mayday Games in 2011 and kickstarted a second edition in 2015. In 2021, Imperial Games was attempting to crowdfund a knock off. What's the problem? Well, it turns out that Imperial Games is a 'sister company' of Mayday Games, as admitted on the previous Kickstarter page. So, they were printing a knock off of a game to a game they had previously licensed. We don't know why, but a likely scenario would be to not have to continue to pay royalties to their former business partner. The board game world noticed immediately and the campaign was cancelled but in the end they went and published their knock off anyway without Kickstarter. So, if any of that matters to you, then maybe don't buy from Sirlin, Bezier, or Mayday Games / Sleeve Kings / Imperial Games / Swan Panasia. - - - There are a lot more things I want to add here eventually: Representation and the rise of Cultural and Sensitivity Consultancy, Asmodee and its anti-consumer behavior, 
Magnetic North fucked around with this message at 20:47 on Sep 22, 2023 |
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Dec 30, 2021 00:12
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 I'm hyped up for cardboard! Where do I begin? If you're new to trad gaming in general, I suggest you keep your sights towards the lighter games to start. If you're new to board gaming but have played hobbyist games like MTG or 40K, then you can consider stepping into the medium games if they look appealing to you. This thread skews towards serious enthusiasts and heavier gamers, so we are including some heavy suggestions too, but if you're new, don't feel the need to dive into the deep end. Remember that lighter games are not a 'lesser' experience; they are still worth your time. Of course, I'm also not your dad, and you're welcome to start with the most complicated game in the world if you think you can manage and you will have a good time. Where do I buy these games? First, I'd suggest you see if you have a Friendly Local Game Store (or FLGS) in your area. Sometimes it's a comic book store, sometimes it's a miniatures game store, sometimes it's a cafe, etc. Hopefully there is one near who would appreciate your business and potentially provide a place to play and even meet other board gamers. If you don't have a game store near you or your only local stores are less than friendly, there are many specialist online retailers big and small where you can buy board games from. As mentioned earlier, board games have become mainstream enough that quality games (and also many bad games) can be purchased in person at big box stores like Target or Walmart. If no other options exist for you, just like everything else in the world, most games can be purchased online on Amazon or eBay, if that's your thing. However, keep in mind that large online platforms have been having issues with counterfeit games, so caveat emptor. Finally, a few smaller publishers mostly offer their games direct via their own website, such Button Shy Games and AllPlay (formerly Board Game Tables). What are some thread approved online retailers? Thread members Lawlicaust, homullus, Bottom Liner, SettingSun, JoeRules, Funzo, Llyranor, Infinitum, Kalko, KongGeorgeVII, Spiteski, mellifluous, and Morpheus all weighed in on this list (and possibly others I missed). I thank them all for the suggestions, as have little experience with online board game shopping. Worldwide: https://www.cardhaus.com/ North America: https://www.gamenerdz.com/ https://www.nobleknight.com/ https://boardlandia.com/ https://tabletopmerchant.com/ https://www.boardgamebliss.com https://store.401games.ca/ https://www.raincity.games/ (Canada only) https://www.greatboardgames.ca/ (Canada only) United Kingdom: https://www.gamesquest.co.uk/ https://www.boardgameguru.co.uk/ EU: https://www.philibertnet.com/en/ Australia / New Zealand: https://www.gameology.com.au/ https://hobbygames.co.nz https://gamekings.co.nz If you have a suggestion for other regions, feel free to PM me. Comparison shopping is a nuisance! Surely there is a 21st century solution for my busy lifestyle? Yes indeed! To compare prices between many retailers at once, including many smaller ones, check out https://www.boardgameoracle.com/ or https://boardgameprices.co.uk/. What are some thread approved games? This list contains games was suggested by: Bottom Liner, golden bubble, Megasbin, Aramoro, Admiralty Flag, Dr. Video Games 0069, silvergoose, Stickman, Binary Doubts, Viper915 and myself among others who I will inevitably miss as this gets edited. I have tried to limit this to games that are in print at time of writing, but keep in mind that this can vary by region and will change over time. This also means some thread favorites have been intentionally left off, like Inis. If you discover something here has gone out of print, feel free to PM me. Each of these a link to the BGG page for that game. Games are divided by suggested number of players, then sorted by complexity according to BGG, lightest at the top and heaviest at the bottom. (As this list gets updated and polls change, this may not remain 100% accurate, but should remain good enough.) Games that are sequels, standalone expansions or re-implementations are listed together on the same line. Solo (1 Player) games Note: Starred* games can play more than one than 1 but are suggested for 1. Light Games Food Chain Island Sprawlopolis* (Co-op) Deep Space D-6 Medium Games Four Against Darkness Super-Skill Pinball: 4-Cade* Warp's Edge Under Falling Skies Heavy Games Nemo's War* (Co-op) Imperium: Classics* or Imperium: Legends* Comanchería: The Rise and Fall of the Comanche Empire 2 Player games Note: Starred* games can play a different number than 2 but are suggested for 2. Light Games Codenames Duet (Co-op) Onitama The Fox in the Forest Patchwork Jaipur Santorini Azul* Air, Land, & Sea Battle Line Medium Games 7 Wonders Duel Watergate Blue Moon Legends Tak Res Arcana* Marvel Champions* Antike Duellum Race for the Galaxy* BattleCON* Heavy Games Tash-Kalar Spirit Island* (Co-op) Roads and Boats* 3-5 Player games Note: Some games here do not support each of these player counts. For instance, they may be 2-4 players. Anything that does not cover 3, 4 and 5 player sessions, I've tried to put that information here where I can. Keep in mind that some games may not be recommended at these player counts. Check the BGG listing as described above in the "Where can I get this information about player count and weight?" section for more info. Light Games Kingdomino (2-4 players) For Sale Railroad Ink High Society Carcassonne The Quest for El Dorado (2-4 players) Lost Cities Rivals (2-4 players) Condottiere The Crew (Co-Op) or The Crew: Mission Deep Sea (Co-op) Medium Games Tiny Towns Parks Arboretum (2-4 players) Through the Desert Calico (1-4 players) Modern Art The Estates Irish Gauge Pandemic (Co-op) (1-4 players) or Pandemic:Iberia (Co-op) Broom Service Roll for the Galaxy Hansa Teutonica Concordia or Concordia Venus Orleans (2-4 players) Heavy Games Keyflower Dungeon Petz (2-4 players) Agricola or Caverna Root (2-4 players) Great Western Trail, 2nd Edition (1-4 players) Caylus Pax Pamir, 2nd Edition A Feast for Odin (1-4 players) Brass Birmingham (2-4 players) or Brass Lancashire (2-4 players) Food Chain Magnate The Gallerist (1-4 players) Gaia Project (1-4 players) 6+ Player games Light Games Just One (Co-op) Men at Work Insider Wavelength Skull A Fake Artist Goes to New York Deep Sea Adventure Junk Art Codenames Medium Games Startups Flamme Rogue The Resistance: Avalon Paper Tales First Contact 7 Wonders, 2nd Edition Heavy Games Sidereal Confluence: Trading and Negotiation in the Elysian Quadrant Magnetic North fucked around with this message at 14:53 on Aug 2, 2023 |
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Dec 30, 2021 00:12
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PRADA SLUT posted:unhelpful as gently caress This is rich coming from you.
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Dec 30, 2021 01:23
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Thanks for all the input so far. I've made several changes based on suggestions, new inclusions and formatting corrections, etc based on suggestions. If you want to suggest something, PMing me on SA is best (if you have PMs, that is) because hopefully I won't miss them. I intend to take as much as I can on board as I can, but I will use some discretion as well. I think a game ought to have at least a certain amount of hype and awareness to get on this list, since we are basically playing the percentages to find games people will like. An unknown game, even if amazing, might not be the best choice. Don't let that prevent you from posting and telling us what an amazing game it is.CodfishCartographer posted:Tragedy Looper may be my favorite game so Zendo sounds up my alley. Any other similar games that scratch that same sort of itch? So bear in mind, Zendo is not a narrative logic game. Instead, it is pure stateless abstract logic game, so it's almost closer to chess. Also, the master's relationship with the students is less antagonistic than in other one-versus-many games. The rules on on the Looney Labs website. In very broad strokes, let's say instead of Koans, it's Emoti-Koans. As the master, I say  "has the Buddha-nature" and  "does not have the Buddha-nature". You might say "Emoti-Koans with words in them have the Buddha-nature". Then I would post  and say "That has the Buddha nature" but since it has no words it contradicts your suggestion. Then you say, "Emoticons with musical instruments have the Buddha-nature." Then, I say  and say, "This does not have the Buddha-nature" again disproving your hypothesis. We repeat until you successfully deduce what is meant. If I made an extremely complicated set of rules with multiple if clauses, that would be no fun, but if I made it too easy, that would be bad too.Also, only after typing all this out am I realizing that this game, particularly with the original printing's art (featured on the page above), is probably at least mildly orientalist by today's standards. So, take that as you see fit. If you want a co-operative narrative detective game (though not quite pure logic), let me quote the last thread for my GOTY 2021: Magnetic North posted:Game of the Year:
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Dec 30, 2021 09:38
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homullus posted:That is an impressive OP. That's a great idea, adding some suggestions about learning and explaining rules, etc. I'll try and add that to the first OP in the coming days. I already talked about it in a post in the last thread which I am only linking here so I don't forget Also should probably mention board game apps, remote play like BGA, and solo gaming. Tekopo posted:You can play Zendo with Lego or really anything at all. The guy who taught me did it with multiple cheapo decks of playing cards, which can make it a little mathy, but still quite fun.
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Dec 30, 2021 10:00
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Aggro posted:I posit that the OP does not have enough Vlaada. nrook posted:The new edition is themeless; they took out the Zen theming, with the exception of the name, and, I suppose, the titling of the GM as "the Master." Admiralty Flag posted:I said this in a PM with a couple of notes on the OP(s), but it bears public repeating: that is some quality work you did to kick off the thread, Magnetic North
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Dec 30, 2021 20:02
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Lawlicaust posted:Board Game Price checking: I only know about BoardGameAtlas from this story where BGG users alleged they were using the BGG API to steal content. Dunno if that was overblown or not. I put down CoolStuffInc and Miniature Market as defaults since I don't know many others. I could use these instead. Does anyone else have other suggestions for quality online retailers? The only thing other one I've dealt with his Noble Knight but only as a seller.
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Dec 30, 2021 21:45
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PRADA SLUT posted:A Feast for Odin-- Build a viking settlement Hey, just for funsies, click that hyperlink to the BGG page. At the top, they've added the ability to suggest a one sentence description for games. For AFfO, it says, "Puzzle together the life of a Viking village as you hunt, farm, craft, and explore." That's a nice description, and hits the type of game, the theme and a few key actions. Why would someone write a description when one already exists? It's almost as if BGG has already crowdsourced this labor. Because it has. Holy poo poo, yours is laconic to the point of uselessness. Please consider writing one for every game. I am not going to use them, but every one you write is less time you spend posting in this thread.
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Dec 30, 2021 23:24
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I added some rules explanation suggestions to the OP. Thanks to homullus who mentioned the oversight. Like the rest, it's skewing towards people very new to the hobby and presumably teaching others who are even newer. Let me know if there are any errors or suggestions.
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Dec 31, 2021 11:28
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homullus posted:The OP was really good and I didn't mean to imply those were oversights, just "other things I've thought about" and I thought anyone reading the OP might read the rest of the first page. You did a really good job. No no, it was a good suggestion and something I'd wanted to include and has missed in my haste. That was not meant to be a snide dig. Thank you. Red Dad Redemption posted:If you haven't already, I might suggest you consider Twilight Struggle for the two player games list. Possibly we're atypical, but we've enjoyed it for years, even as other games have come and gone. I am still open for suggestions, though PMs are probably better (for those that have it), especially since I might miss them churn by in the thread. What I don't know is: do goons still like Twilight Struggle? Or has it fallen off? I have actually never played but I believe it is still extremely highly regarded.
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Dec 31, 2021 23:16
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El Fideo posted:There's also their plagiarism issue. They lost the license for Click Clack Lumberjack, so they rushed their own version to market. Right, I remember that. I'm quoting this to remind myself to add that when I talk about board game thievery with Sirlin and Bezier. I've been trying to research Asmodee controversies this weekend but that's a tall order.
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Jan 2, 2022 21:39
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nomadotto posted:Here's a few a know and love. Might be too wordy Be aware: at this juncture, I have no intention to add any additional descriptions such as these to the OPs, since there are so many other things in these OPs that could use additional attention. (I am still finding typos ) I wanted to say that publicly in case others decide to try their hand at such wordsmithing, as I don't want them to feel inadequately appreciated. I hope you don't feel like you wasted your time.
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Jan 3, 2022 20:47
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BGG has been markedly better* after site owner Aldie posted in support of BLM which came after board game designer Eric Lang described (cw: racism, seriously it's not an easy read) described his personal interactions with the police as a man of color. For any non-Americans who are somehow unaware, this all came after (this link is just Wikipedia, not the actual video) the murder of George Floyd by a police officer and subsequent publication of video footage showcasing the particularly inhumane, cruel, slow and brutal way in which he was murdered, causing widespread outrage. Previously, I had given up on the social aspect of BGG after coming across several lovely interactions with the community the past, but that made me reconsider knowing that the owner and mods were not on the side of racism, or at least not on the side of "big tent free speech hands-off moderation" for lack of a better term. I decided to actually get stuck in and start shitposting after seeing thread denizen Mayveena's thread about a 2020 game featuring zero POC. To be honest, as a cishetwhite dipshit, it's something I would never notice on my own, even though I came across the idea of representation in board games with the SUSD review of Istanbul some time before, where they mention that the game failed to feature women. (At least the publisher of Istanbul seemed ashamed and contrite in that case, for what that's worth.) In the case of Alma Mater, Tom Lehmann (designer of Race for the Galaxy, so not just some rando) noticed this early and used his pre-existing relationship to tell them about this, and their response was claiming 'historical accuracy'. He then responded with how that was bullshit, and then the game got published with whitewashing intact. This obliterated the 'innocent mistake' excuse and made it so worse. On the other hand, more recently when Paleo was called out, the publisher and designer immediately apologized and pledged to do better. Whether you think that is enough to indulge them with your forgiveness is up to you, but it's certainly better than some publishers do, as seen above. Based on what I've seen in these threads when they are live, there is a growing pushback against this type of crap. Over the last year and a half, the support for openly spouting these terrible ideas feels like it is dwindling. Now, BGG has seemingly not banned most of these people, which is a policy I disagree with. I think people should be pissing their pants in terror of losing their precious accounts and their recorded plays and collections if they elect to parrot bigoted bullshit. BGG is instead satisfied to cease offering them a platform. Fair enough. Still, it seems that enough whacks with the moderation stick seems to let them know that their racist or sexist opinions are not as well tolerated on that site as it was for the 20 preceding years. Of course, it's a big site and has a lot of old information on there and a lot of nooks and crannies to hide in, so it's a slow process. A more recent thread was not hit by the moderation bat as hard, so that may show improvement insofar as the bigots are adequately cowed. It is still a sort of insular grognardy kinda place, but it's growing to be more accepting to grognards of all colors and creeds. - - - * : So, yeah, here's the thing: you may notice that certain pages I've linked to on BGG has huge swaths of it missing. Unlike SA where bad posts are rarely removed unless it's doxxing or an actionable threat, a moderated post is hidden as are everyone who quoted it. You can see that in the first page, only three posts remain (one is hidden by default from getting downvoted, but is also in support). So, did everyone say something lovely? Maybe not. 8 people said something lovely and 12 responded to them. They could be in support or in opposition. We can't say for sure. It also makes it harder to get 'receipts' so to speak.
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Jan 4, 2022 10:44
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Kalko posted:Sherlock Holmes Consulting Detective: The Baker Street Irregulars was a really pleasant surprise. I'm not sure what I was expecting (I picked it up sight-unseen from some recommendations in the old thread) but this was a really novel experience for me and I enjoyed it a lot. I figured we'd have a decent chance of taking that Sherlock Holmes fucker down a notch or two but the result from our first case was Holmes : 9, Crime-fighting Children : 25.
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Jan 4, 2022 16:19
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!Klams posted:I didn't see anyone answer that it was "PAIN", so here's me saying, it's pain. Thanks for the kind words, and thank you for helping with the proofreading. I knew there were likely more errors than I'd managed to find so far. I won't take any OP corrections personally. In fact, I intend for the recommendations particularly to be something of a living document, adding new ones as they come out and removing games as they fall out of print or possibly just fall out of favor of the thread.
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Jan 7, 2022 16:20
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Quote is not edit. I've added two more items to the Responsibility section of the OP: Inexplicable Crypto Baloney in the Trad Games Space and Theft and Plagarism in Board Games. Give them a look and PM me (if you have PMs) with any errors. I admit, I don't know if I love the formatting for this sort of grouping, but it's the best I could think of. Next addition is hopefully Asmodee but it's hard to find much concrete besides the general hate because they've been 'the bad guy' for so darn long. Magnetic North fucked around with this message at 11:11 on Jan 8, 2022 |
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Jan 8, 2022 11:08
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Siivola posted:I want to note that he "only" stole the visual design for Puzzle Strike, the game is more than just a Dominion-with-chips, but that's still super blatantly scummy. Hmm, it has been a long time since I played Puzzle Strike (before knowing the controversy), but I recall it playing basically exactly like Dominion except the weird Gem sliding attack poo poo. Perhaps I am overstating the case? I am genuinely trying to just keep people in the loop; this isn't some personal vendetta, Sirlin didn't beat me at Marvel Vs Capcom 2 or anything, so if people feel I am being too uncharitable, I can update it.
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Jan 8, 2022 12:04
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gschmidl posted:I just checked my edition and it has an illustrator credit and thanks DXV for Dominion. Which edition is that?
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Jan 8, 2022 12:14
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I've updated the post to hopefully more accurately describe the Puzzle Strike controversy. Also, I accidentally discovered an entirely separate game theft Sirlin controversy, so I added that too.
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Jan 8, 2022 12:56
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Poopy Palpy posted:The illustrator credited isn't Matthan, the BGG user who put Dominion on chips and designed the exact banners and iconography that ended up on Puzzle Strike. The thanks to DXV disappeared from revised Puzzle Strike rulebooks after he and Sirlin met, which went down like this: lol DXV frigging rules. I think I'd heard that story before and possibly conflated some of the details here. I've updated the OP accordingly.
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Jan 8, 2022 16:16
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Mayveena posted:Tabletop Simulator banning people for saying they are gay or trans in global chat because global chat is to be 'family friendly' Yep, gently caress that poo poo. The OPs have been updated again, now with a section about online gaming (which I wanted to add anyway), and a section denouncing this homophobia / transphobia / erasure / fuukken bullshit. I did my best to write it quickly, but please correct me if I have made any missteps.
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Jan 8, 2022 18:14
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VoodooXT posted:Wasn’t there also a hoopla about Sirlin “borrowing” rather generously from Knizia’s En Garde? I only learned about that this morning: Magnetic North posted:Also, in researching Sirlin for this topic, I discovered that there was another controversy: he allegedly ripped off a 1993 game from Reiner Knizia. The discussion from 10 years ago involves Penny Arcade of all people. I'm not familiar with the games, but a cursory look at the rules show they are quite similar. Whether this counts as inspiration or theft is admittedly blurrier in this case, but considering the other incident I would understand why people might not afford him the benefit of the doubt. If you've got more intel on this and we can corroborate it with links and sources and stuff, I could puff this up a bit.
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Jan 8, 2022 21:08
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Orange DeviI posted:Actually list some concrete steps they’re going to take, for one. But they don’t actually care, they just dislike the community backlash I think you're probably right, and maybe I'm being too naive and charitable here, but I'm willing to give them a tiny amount of rope here; setting out a plan for restorative action and future improvements will take a little time and you gotta get it right. However, if this is still their last word by the end of day today, then I feel that that would demonstrate that they do not see this as the capital-E Emergency that it is, both from a moral 'human decency' angle and a tactical 'business bottom line' angle. Again, perhaps that perspective is too generous, considering how bad and toxic an environment they have fostered for so long, but I can at least conceive of a world where they make the correct responses and this is mostly forgiven over time. In any case, they should be all hands on deck right now formulating a plan. And if they're not, gently caress 'em.
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Jan 10, 2022 10:21
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Stolen from the Trad Gaming Industry thread. It's a thread of TTS alternatives that might come in handy.Leraika posted:I couldn't find the one I was thinking of, but this looks useful:
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Jan 11, 2022 23:30
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Following on from Cartographers, any roll-and-write or flip-and-write should work without even needing a web cam, just someone to proctor the game. Most if not all have a way to just print off a copy of the sheet. Railroad Ink is a roll-and-Write with a route building aspect, which might make it similar to Catan, and it is extremely popular. I own On Tour which is somewhat similar, and I like it but it is certainly less popular, more expensive, geared towards larger groups and I don't know the purchasing status of it at the moment. However, I have played On Tour online with strangers with just my dry-erase board and it worked just fine. I expect any roll-and-write to serve you well here.
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Jan 15, 2022 00:22
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Bottom Liner posted:
I was legitimately considering adding specific mention of The Good Doctor K to the OP. But now I must reveal my deep dark secret goony shame: I've honestly only played a few of this games: High Society (love it), Lost Cities (only online, love it) Through the Desert, Colossal Arena, and Age of War (only once each, pre-pandemic, liked TtD, the others were medium). I am moderately familiar with a few others like Modern Art, Yellow & Yangtze and Circus Flohcati through general osmosis. With Tigris & Euphrates in alpha on BGA, I was thinking of trying it, but it truly never sounded like it was my speed and I think my game group would bounce off it. Also, if I mention him then I probably should mention a few others and the OP would be as long as the list of games Reiner Knizia designed.
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Jan 20, 2022 21:57
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PRADA SLUT posted:Opinion on Final Girl ? I have not played it, but after seeing the Watch It Played I was pretty hyped and was considering it as my first solo game purchase, even as a non-slasher fan. But the publisher Van Ryder Games is doing NFT bullshit so they are off my purchasing list.
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Jan 22, 2022 08:19
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Infinitum posted:Heads up There are various reasons why goons should pass this project, mostly Kickstarter's crypto baloney and Mayday and all their shell-game shell corporations being shady in various ways. I know there have been other controversies including ones about their board quality and to quote one redditor: "Beware Mayday games. Period. They've been a shitshow forever." You mentioned Tracey, and you can get one of their boards for about twice as much (about $240 usd?): https://www.crokinolegameboards.com/crokinole-boards/ which is obviously a lot of money and a lot more money than Mayday's offering, but not dealing with a two terrible companies simultaneously might be worth it to you. I also do not know if they deliver to the upside-down countries.
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Jan 24, 2022 10:05
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Infinitum posted:Not to go off on a tangent, or appear that I'm stanning Mayday, but from my personal experience with them my 2020 board arrived in Australia on time and in excellent condition. That's they same year they tried to kickstart a knock off to a game they had previously licensed from another company. So I don't think their shadiness is in the past. PRADA SLUT posted:Hi, Blockchain != Crypto Oh good are we going to have another tedious multi-page discussion of why some cryptos are slightly less disastrous than others because they plant a tree that just dies instantly, instead of, oh I don't know, not pointlessly exhausting the limited resources in the first place? Believe me, I don't give a gently caress and neither does Kickstarter. It's just to get VCs and investors and C-suites loving dribbling in their drawers because number go up. Worship of this nonsense isn't going to magically make you go back in time and buy bitcoin in 2011. I would be perfectly happy to never have Kickstarter mentioned in this thread until they relent from their nonsense, and possibly even after that. There is a perfectly nice TG crowdfunding thread which is honestly worth a follow for those inclined, since you can learn about goon projects and things outside of the algo.
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Jan 24, 2022 10:34
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Mayveena posted:As the OP of the thread (thanks again!!!) I'm sure you recognize we can't have a thread that doesn't discuss Kickstarters because like it or not, they are a very visible part of the hobby. We should refer new folks to the OP where we explain why we aren't fans of Kickstarters but to shut down all Kickstarter discussion would make the thread a lot less helpful to a lot of people. Kinda? Like, if it's in people's grubby little hands, fine. But talking about the games you can't play for 18 months is actually kind of a drag since FOMO distracts us from the fact that there are so many great games you can play right now. Besides, as OP, I don't believe I actually have any authority to dictate what's being said in here. Things like the catan joke being forbidden in the old thread was, I believe, a joke. If that is untrue, then I have some powers to start abusing I guess?
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Jan 24, 2022 21:09
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Naar posted:I'd like to get a game I can play with my son for his birthday, preferably two-player focused. We currently play 7 Wonders Duel a fair bit, if that gives you an idea of how heavy a game I'm after. I've been thinking about Riftforce and That Time You Killed Me, any other options? The 3rd OP has many suggestions but the one that I'd suggest is Air, Land and Sea. It is sightly simpler than 7 Wonders Duel but I've had a very nice quite casual yet thinky time with it. SUSD summed it up way better than I ever could.
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Jan 24, 2022 21:30
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Mayveena posted:FOMO doesn’t necessarily distract everyone, that’s an opinion right? I’m not in anyway shape or form a supporter/frequent user of Kickstarter. I want to be able to keep recommending this thread for folks who watch my channel but I won’t do that if they come here to ask about a Kickstarter and get dumped on. To the degree that I can control it, I want this thread to be (among other things) more newbie friendly and less insular than some places in the trad game space, but it's still SA. Getting dunked on my some internet rear end in a top hat is just a risk they're going to have to take. 
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Jan 24, 2022 22:45
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Mayveena posted:SA must be SA, that's totally fine. Also I have a question for you all. One of the things that's obvious to me is that some of these board games (KS or not) use way too much plastic. It really irritates me and is kind of why I haven't sworn off of KS entirely. It feels like the extensive use of plastic is worse on the climate than what Kickstarter is doing. Am I wrong for thinking this way? As was said before, both matter and have different impact. In fact, it's starting to penetrate the board gaming world; Shut Up and Sit Down have talked about being hesitant about excessively plastic board games, and Tony of The Secret Cabal has been complaining about concerns over the health effects of microplastics (partly in jest, partly seriously, and I admit I don't know the science). At least with a plastic miniature, at least you're getting a durable good, an object meant to serve a purpose over time. There is a a waste and an ecological effect that can not and should not be ignored, but it is serving a goal. Even a single-use plastic straw or plastic bag is at least ostensibly serving a purpose, even if the cost-benefit is out of whack. However, even if I don't know the true cost of the worldwide plastic industry, we can surmise that the cost-benefit of crypto must be much worse because the societal gains is less; insofar that crypto is literally nothing outside of finding other bagholders in financial speculation. It's not even anything new: you already could do that on the internet with a penny stock pump-and-dump scheme. That's why people are reacting so negatively to this. It isn't simply an otherwise air-quotes 'benign' action of a corp under capitalism. Back to plastics for a bit, to consider them in their own scope outside of crypto bullshit: do I need that game to last for 400 years, when I am definitely going to be dead before then? I mean, kept safe and dry, a paper and cardboard board game can last for decades, and wood and metal pieces will last similarly past a human's lifespan. Do I really need that plastic piece? Does it have to look like a person with a sword? Could it just be a standee or a wooden pawn? We all love trees and are sad when they get cut down, but that tree grows in decades whereas that plastic won't decay for centuries and is likely made from something that takes thousands or possibly millions of years to create. These are important questions that I am not well versed in just yet. Mayveena posted:It did come with plastic bags but who knows maybe one day we’ll get cotton bags instead of plastic. News broke a little while ago about the carbon footprint of cotton over other alternatives for bags (shopping bags specifically), and it's not what you might imagine at first blush. Sci Show had an interesting video on this at the time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvzvM9tf5s0. The important thing to take out of this is that sustainability can be complicated and multifaceted, and this only looked at the carbon footprint and not the full scope of pollution. It's all I can do to try and keep mindful of these concerns, and I have to rely on people who know more than me about the climate science to disseminate the information. I'm pretty sure I hadn't heard the word 'sustainability' used in that context until like 2009? Obviously the mindshare has grown since then. Hopefully some day I can add important resources to the OP; it's on my list to do, but my weekends have been full and it's a drag to fill them with negativity even for the greater purpose of providing a resource to make gaming slightly better.
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Jan 25, 2022 09:40
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I would love to get a Crokinole board some day. Never had the chance to play, I only know it by reputation, so spending that much money could be a tough ask, but it just seems dope and chill. Just don't got the space for now, and even if I wanted to give Mayday money, I think it'd be worth paying more for something truly nice. Like, I could just as easily get a secondhand copy of Ascending Empires if I want a slightly janky flicking experience.
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Jan 25, 2022 21:37
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Slimy Hog posted:Content: what are everyone's favorite solo-only games? I have still never played a solo game. I had meant to buy some during *gestures at everything around us* but just didn't. I don't know why. As far as games that I thought looked good: Sprawlopolis is popular and seems like a very simple but interesting expanding sort of puzzle. Also, someone in the old thread mentioned Rocky Mountain Man which also tickled my fancy. It would never have come across my radar otherwise, and I might be buying / making a copy some day. My only hesitance was that the game is played in 'seasons' that are a real time hour long. So if you roll the dice faster, you get more done, and that doesn't jive with me thematically despite the designer's protestation.
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Jan 25, 2022 23:29
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I was going over the OP to fix more of the thousands of typos I left in it and I thought of something: We're recommending Kingdomino at 3-5. However, BGG does not recommend the game at 3. I think BGA even directly suggests not playing it at 3. (I let my premium lapse, so I can't check it myself.) I've only played it at 2. Has anybody played Kingdomino at 3? I imagine the idea is that issue is two players swapping spots, leaving the third player stuck with no choice in last position, but with the random distribution of tiles, I guess there is only a 2/3 chance they will have a viable tile in the top two?
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Jan 26, 2022 10:25
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Infinitum posted:Shout out to Gameology, a very good store here in Australia, for hosting the shittiest Australia Day flash sale Outside of the disappointment from this sale, are they an online retailer worthy of inclusion in the OP? I noticed I have no Aus/NZ stores listed, just US, UK, and EU. In other terms, are they like the Melbourne Monopoly, or are they more like like the Perth Monopoly? That's it, that's the only Australia joke I know. Everyone makes fun of Perth for some reason.
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Jan 26, 2022 17:02
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Admiralty Flag posted:As the Broken Token organizers are out (see the second post of the thread for more info if, like me, you were unaware) I'm very happy that the OP helped at least one goon. It was all worth it.
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Jan 28, 2022 00:30
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Infinitum posted:So I'm not a huge Dice Tower/Tom Vassel fan, but they've recently done their Top 100 Games of All Time list and Ark Nova is Tom's #1 - which is a pretty big loving call, seeing how it only released last year, and likely a huge loving boost to its popularity. I haven't watched TDT regularly in ages, but Cosmic Encounter was his top game forever and ever. I thought it would probably never change.
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Jan 29, 2022 15:19
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