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Wait, you do know that the GDR also had former nazis in their armed forces, correct? Ergo, by this logic, the GDR, Warsaw Pact, the Soviet Union, and by extension Russia are National Socialists. PS. While the Russian Federation is not a National Socialist (aka Nazi) regime, they do tick most of the boxes for fascism. PPS. The Russian armed forces and the Donbas People’s Republic have their fair share of avowed Nazis, which is always entertaining considering Hitler described the war with Russia as one of extermination; and very overtly considered Slavs non-aryan and marked for death to make way for German colonists.
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Feb 16, 2022 14:38
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Fame Douglas posted:I don't think adding new troops to an area you have de-facto held for years counts as a new invasion, no. Your D-Day analogy doesn't seem to apply at all, because that was invading an area previously held by the Nazis. The fact is we are closer to a major global war right this second with Putin’s move from covert occupation of Eastern Ukraine to overt occupation of Eastern Ukraine than we have been since probably the 1960s. Furthermore, the language of Putin’s speech today names all of the Ukraine, in so many words, as rightfully Russian. Rather than a d-day analogy I think it’s closer to German reoccupation of the Rheinland and Hitler’s language about “Greater Germany” than anything. And while I don’t expect nuclear war to engulf the world, it would be pretty remiss of us to ignore what is happening right now, or to not contemplate how in July of 1914, no major European power thought they were standing on the precipice of the congratulation that was the First World War. So, by all means, do not spread panic or fear monger, but do not pretend this “situation” did not just become orders of magnitude more serious than it was this morning.
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Feb 21, 2022 23:29
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Young Freud posted:Yeah, there's a Soviet plan called "Seven Days To The River Rhine" where it's predicated on the idea that Poland attacks Germany, gets nuked, which causes the Soviets to launch a counterattack on NATO bases in Europe, along with civilian population centers. Czechs and Hungarian mechanized infantry jumps into loving nuclear craters and radioactive rubble to take the cities, while Russians in their NBC-sealed armor races to get to the French banks of the Rhine. Yes, largely correct. It was called “Seven Days to the River Rhine” because Soviet wargaming suggested that if the Rhine wasn’t reached, and hopefully bridgeheads across secured in 7 days, the Warsaw Pact forces would never be able to overcome NATO forces. Mostly because they figured it would take about a week for France and FRG to fully mobilize and fully be in the fight, and for American and British rapid reaction forces that could not be fully interdicted by the Soviets to arrive on the front lines. Ah, the bipolar superpower Cold War. These are more and more seeming like the good old days.
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Feb 23, 2022 15:27
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coelomate posted:https://twitter.com/IlvesToomas/status/1496525189303128067 You are acting as if the Russian Federation is not already on record—though they of course deny everything—as having conducted multiple cyber attacks against both American governmental and private civilian organizations; including, I would add, actively engaging in electoral interference in the United States. I’m a hawk by no means, but it’s not like this would an escalation, unless you believe a like-kind response to what the Russian Federation has been doing for years is some sort of an escalation. If you want me to be perfectly honest, given the history of the covert military apparatus of the United States, I am very surprised that the West has shown the restraint it has over the last two decades. Particularly when you consider that Putin has used both radioactive poisons and nerve agents to assassinate political opponents on the soil of NATO member states. I feel like I also need to remind everyone that these attacks have resulted in the injury and death of citizens of said NATO member states, some of whom were not in any way related to the target of the assassination attempts. ZombieLenin fucked around with this message at 19:49 on Feb 23, 2022 |
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Feb 23, 2022 19:46
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Owling Howl posted:Chechnya offers a brutally effective solution for dealing with insurgencies. Sure, but of course what you are saying seems pretty dismissive of the fact that Ukraine shares a 332 mile long border with a literal member of NATO. Which, is meaningful for two reasons. If Russia launches a “full scale” invasion of Ukraine, I find it very unlikely they will advance much farther West than Kiev, and certainly not all the way to the border of Poland, which would make border interdiction pretty hard. And unlike the United States in Afghanistan, the Russians will not have the option of covert interdiction through air power or drones on the Polish side of the border, unless of course they want to start a real war with NATO… Which, despite me thinking Putin is being a reckless idiot as is, I don’t think the man is that stupid. Edit. I left out Hungary and Romania. Hungary I have no excuse, but Romania I tend to forget was now a NATO member—which is pretty terrible too since that’s where, until recently, the only European Anti-Ballistic Missile System installations were. So that’s like an 850 mile border Ukraine shares with NATO. Good luck to the Russian Federation trying to interdict that border in the case of a full invasion of Ukraine without ‘accidentally’ starting a global war. ZombieLenin fucked around with this message at 21:17 on Feb 23, 2022 |
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Feb 23, 2022 20:03
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HonorableTB posted:A cyberwar with Russia would be catastrophic for the United States because American critical infrastructure is hilariously vulnerable to cyberattacks. There's essentially no security for most things and American officials have gone on record warning about how badly dams, power plants, and telecom infrastructure are going to get owned in a cyberwar scenario I think you and I are on the same page there; however, while I think Boris Johnson is an idiot, I only take his response to mean that if the Russian Federation tries to initiate some sort of cyber war, the West (or at least the UK) is no longer just going to sit there and take it, but respond in kind.
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Feb 23, 2022 20:08
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Sir John Falstaff posted:Also, there are already armed groups in Ukraine--granted, some of them are neo-nazis, but they're there. The government of Ukraine has literally been training civilians to fight a asymmetric war against Russia for over a year. The program is actually older and was initially a kind of public/private arrangement with private Ukrainian paramilitary groups, which is also still going on. What I would tell you is: 1. Never underestimate nationalism as a motivator to resist; 2. Ukraine has the 22nd best military in the world now and has come a long way since 2014; 3. See the above linked article, Ukraine’s military has been training volunteers to fight a guerrilla war for over a year—that’s a drat sight more training than most of the Iraqis who fought the United States in the early 2000s got; and finally 4. From what I understand, intelligence chatter seems to indicate that the Russian armed forces are very concerned about Ukraine’s capacity to wage an asymmetric war behind Russian lines.
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Feb 24, 2022 00:40
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I don’t believe in any gods as I am a card carrying Marxist, but right this second assuming what is about to happen actually does, I hope there are gods and they go with the Ukrainian people and armed service. Every loving human death is a tragedy, but I hope the Ukrainians make the Russians pay for every inch. ZombieLenin fucked around with this message at 02:45 on Feb 24, 2022 |
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Feb 24, 2022 01:39
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Terminal autist posted:What org I wanna make sure I blacklist them. Communist Party of the United States, though you won’t find I always agree with the party platform.
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Feb 24, 2022 03:13
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Grape posted:Imagine that you really want to root for the USSR, but it stopped existing around the time you were born. Yeah, as a Marxist let me say… the Russian Revolution did in fact shake the world, and the Soviet Union represented for a couple generations, despite its hosed up totalitarian bullshit, that an alternative to capitalism might be possible. It didn’t last for a lot of reasons. I regret it being gone not because it was a shining example of a Marxist future, but because I think a bipolar world was safer. I also regret the loss of the few good things that it represent. Clepto-Capitalist Russia has no redeeming qualities at all, and neither does an authoritarian capitalist China with Marxist costumes… but that’s a different story altogether. Personally, the film Goodbye Lenin! sums up my feelings about Eastern European “Communism” perfectly. Oh, and I was born in the 1970s, so I do possesses a living memory of the world when those places existed. ZombieLenin fucked around with this message at 03:35 on Feb 24, 2022 |
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Feb 24, 2022 03:33
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:Poland is probably feeling a bit apprehensive. If he pushes past Ukraine it gets very ugly very quickly. I assume you mean Kiev, and you are correct because you don’t just have Poland, you have an 850 mile border with NATO member states on the West and Southwest Ukraine.
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Feb 24, 2022 05:04
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It appears that the Ukrainian Armed Forces failed to listen to Putin and did not put down their arms; and it also seems that people of the Ukraine are, as advertised, willing to fight. Not only does it seem the lead up to this invasion did not go as Putin planned, but I don’t think the invasion is going how he expected it either. Not that I don’t think he wasn’t warned, from what I understand US intelligence indicates Putin got some push back from Russian military intelligence all month leading up to this.
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Feb 24, 2022 14:10
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Paracausal posted:loving eat it Russia What did it say? Tweet was deleted.
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Feb 24, 2022 14:12
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Tesseraction posted:He's uniformly anti-war. It doesn't mean he's pro-Russia. One of the big problems with him as leader is that he sticks to his principles no matter what. I respect it and all but agree that now is not the time. He'd probably push for UN peacekeepers to get involved, but sees NATO getting involved as extremely deadly. I like Corbyn, I really do; however, right this very second—off the cuff commentary by Marcon aside—there is no risk of NATO involving itself in a shooting war with Russia. On top of that this feels to me like it’s August of 1939 and he’s wanting to hold a “NO WAR OVER POLAND!” rally. ZombieLenin fucked around with this message at 14:36 on Feb 24, 2022 |
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Feb 24, 2022 14:28
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Nenonen posted:It's a bit too early to declare Russia beaten yet. Or Ukraine for that matter. The invasion started 12 hours ago, nothing of consequence has happened yet. Only coming days will tell how it will go. Oh, I don’t think Russia is beaten. It just seems to me that Putin underestimated what it is going to take to conquer Ukraine, and that Russia will have to pay a heavy price both financially and in, for lack of a better a better phrase, blood to subdue Ukraine. A much heavier price than Putin planned for. Given the disparity of forces and geography this is the best realistic outcome we could have hoped for. Not only that, but Russia will have to occupy Ukraine for years and face a wide spread insurgency; as no puppet regime they install will survive a single day without tens of thousands of Russian soldiers protecting them.
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Feb 24, 2022 14:36
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Sinteres posted:Grozny and Aleppo were specifically the instances I was thinking of when I said Russia wages war in a particularly brutal way. Like whatever you think about the US military, it's more discriminate in its attacks than Russia was in either of those instances. Russia was deliberately bombing hospitals on a routine basis in Syria, and turned Grozny into rubble, so this isn't Russia apologia. My assumption is that it'll be harder to sell indiscriminate slaughter of a brotherly Slavic nation than either of those cases, and also that the Ukrainian military will be less stubborn about holding out in the face of that sort of warfare (once the end result is clear) than Chechen or Syrian jihadists were, but of course civilians will die. Like I said, it just depends on what you mean by 'slaughtering civilians.' Civilians are lining up today in Ukraine to volunteer to fight. It’s crazy to me that, no offense, people seem to forget the power of nationalism; and how nationalism can be harnessed to just as great a level as religion to inspire fanatical resistance. Just as a point of illustration, let’s talk about the German defense of Berlin in late April and early May of 1945, or even the German defense of fortress Europe after the Allied landings at d-day and the complete destruction of Army Group Center when the Soviets launched Operation Baragation. Or even better, the planned defense of the Japanese home islands before the Soviets invaded Manchuria and the atomic bombs were dropped—it was called “The Glorious Death of a Hundred Million.”
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Feb 24, 2022 14:47
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Somaen posted:It's beaten in the longterm. There's no loving way to recover from this: attacking a peaceful brotherly nation, lying and loving over your friends (Scholz and Macron were promised diplomacy and look like idiots), NATO on high alert, more economic sanctions, everyone looking with horror and demanding to diversify from Russia. This might not be immediate but long-term this is all set. It was all set before with moving on from fossil fuels but this will definitely change the calculus It’s ironic really. Until last month many people in the West had the feeling that NATO was getting kind of pointless. What was this massive alliance really protecting against? Putin I think sensed this weakness in the alliance. Putin did not like the idea that former Warsaw Pct nations were joining NATO, and he really did not like the idea that nations once part of the Soviet Union and shared a border with Russia (the Baltic countries) had joined NATO or were inspired to do so (Ukraine). So he manufactures this conflict with the Ukraine. He thinks to himself: “Nobody did poo poo when we went into Crimea and the response to our Georgian campaign was divisive in the West… Europe is dependent on Russian oil and gas, which means we can attack Ukraine and further divide NATO states, weakening the alliance even more and taking one step towards reforming ‘Greater Russia.’” But, at the end of the day what he actually achieved was the opposite. He not only established Russia as a pariah state at the global level, but he is also shooting the Russian economy in the foot, while uniting NATO and giving the alliance the meaning it really has been lacking since the collapse of the Soviet Union. This whole thing has blown up in Putin’s face.
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Feb 24, 2022 15:01
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Nenonen posted:That's still too early to say. We don't have a reliable understanding of casualties so far, nor do we know what Putin was expecting. I have to wonder what you are basing this on? I am basing this on what Russia has experienced in Syria, Georgia, and Crimea. I am also basing this on what seems to be Putin’s pretty transparent goal to weaken NATO—he achieved the opposite even prior to this invasion. I am also basing this on things like: This, this, this, this, this, this, this, and this.
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Feb 24, 2022 15:30
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Randarkman posted:Denmark and Norway's militaries are pretty much entirely useless. Finland and Sweden are the only ones probably worth a drat in that region. I wouldn’t say that. While small , the Royal Danish Army was pretty heavily engaged in Afghanistan and handled themselves incredibly well.
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Feb 24, 2022 15:32
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Pook Good Mook posted:I'm not on the ground, but it seems insane to take an airfield 100's of miles away from the front when your only path to resupply is flying over an unoccupied enemy who still possesses anti-air weapons. And it's not like Ukraine needs to preserve the airport's usefulness, with no Ukrainians present they can just shell it indiscriminately and bring immense force to re-take it. I concur. They are very far behind enemy lines and the Ukrainian Army has heavy indirect fire assets in the area. This is scorched earth territory. “Air support”under the thickest Ukrainian integrates air defense network does nothing to protect VDV forces from shells and rocket artillery and the Ukrainians can just reduce the airport to body filled ruble.
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Feb 24, 2022 15:37
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Ola posted:If Russia decides to field goat herders or weddings, we know who to send. That’s pretty drat dismissive of the Taliban. Let me remind you the Taliban defeated the United States, whose armed forces are considerably more capable than Russia’s, and the Afghans defeated the Soviet Union.
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Feb 24, 2022 15:39
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brugroffil posted:I don't think a helicopter surviving a stinger hit is a sign of things going poorly for Russian military forces so far. It didn’t “survive.” That’s a mission killed helicopter that was forced to land and captured behind enemy lines. Aircraft forced to land immediately due to battle damage count as being shot down.
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Feb 24, 2022 15:44
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BoldFace posted:If NATO has to choose between letting Finland burn and starting WW3, they will choose the former 100% the time. Let there be no doubt about that. Finland's advantage is that it is not nearly as important politically, economically, or strategically to Russia as Ukraine is. Russia will not attack Finland. Finland counts as Western Europe now and would be a bridge too far for Europe if attacked by Russia. Despite Finland not being in NATO there would be a very real possibility that Russia attacking her would result in a military confrontation with NATO. Which is why a Russian attack will not ever be in the cards… unless Putin is not just crazy, but batshit crazy.
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Feb 24, 2022 15:49
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TulliusCicero posted:Yeah...this seems like an odd "show of force" for little gain: This is part of my supposition that things are not going to Russia’s plan. I am assuming that the Russians thought they’d be in a much better position to support this airborne operation by now than they actually are. Otherwise, from a military perspective this was a completely stupid thing to waste some of Russia’s best trained soldiers on.
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Feb 24, 2022 15:52
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CommieGIR posted:I have to assume its spent fuel storage, which is likely to be a low risk issue. Unless it catches on fire. In which case Russia, Ukraine, and frankly all of central and Northern Europe are hosed.
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Feb 24, 2022 16:51
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dr_rat posted:From a comment in that reddit thread Reports are that all the Russians on that transport plane are confirmed dead. Caveat the confirmation comes from Twitter.
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Feb 24, 2022 16:56
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Sir Bobert Fishbone posted:I believe they've Javelined a column of Russian tanks earlier today. They did. There are some beautiful photographs of a bunch of “javelin and tow esistant” T-80s with their turrets blown clean off out there.
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Feb 24, 2022 16:59
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The Real Amethyst posted:Are there actually lefty/tankie types trying to defend and justify the invasion or is it just a minority of broke brain freaks? I'm scared to look. As I said earlier in this thread, I am a Marxist; and as a Marxist I do not know how anyone who claims to be on the left could do anything other than cheer on Ukraines people and Armed Services who, in my view, are fighting someone who is as close to a successor of Hitler as one can realistically imagine. Again, every human death is a tragedy, but for lack of a better way to say this, I am praying to the nonexistent gods that Ukraine makes Russia bleed for every inch Russian forces advance into Ukraine.
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Feb 24, 2022 17:20
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:The invasion is not going as well as expected. Body bags will soon start flowing back into Russia. Russia has mobile cremation vehicles to hide the dead bodies. Seriously.
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Feb 24, 2022 17:56
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I don’t think Putin understands that the United States, Great Britain, and France are also “powerful nuclear states.” Who does he think he’s threatening with that sort of talk? Mutually assured destruction is still a thing, he might as well be threatening to glass all of Russia over Ukraine. He’s either an idiot, crazy, or both.
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Feb 24, 2022 20:12
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rare Magic card l00k posted:I'm pretty sure his speech prior to the invasion shows he's nuts. I think someone needs to tell him any one of those three countries could obliterate Russia with their own nuclear arsenals, so maybe let’s not make stupid threats.
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Feb 24, 2022 20:36
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Solaris 2.0 posted:https://twitter.com/StratcomCentre/status/1496922915954216962?s=20&t=KMOgkqZ7xoxDgOAAOKLtdA It suddenly makes a lot of sense Putin started begging the Ukrainians to stop fighting again. Fat chance, Russia. You may ‘win’ your war, but you’ve picked a fight with a country with the willingness to defend their right to exist, and the strength to not only make Russia pay for their ‘victory,’ but also show the world how weak the Russian military apparatus really is. And no wonder he’s threatening nuclear war again, because just right this moment, Ukraine is demonstrating how one sided a conventional war with NATO would actually be. Good for you, Ukraine. Every minute your people and Armed Forces resist Putin shows the world your strength as a nation, and the utter disaster modern day fascism brings to countries ruled by it.
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Feb 24, 2022 20:43
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OwlFancier posted:Even if they don't take the airport back, they could presumably move enough AA equipment near it to deny any landings in the area? And the russian forces on the ground presumably will not get any reinforcement otherwise until the land forces get there, at which point it probably doesn't matter who owns the thing. Or they can just continuously crater the runway.
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Feb 24, 2022 20:48
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MikeC posted:Rewatch his speech following his meeting with Marcon. He isn't some deranged idiot everyone here says he his. He clearly laid out how he knows his own conventional forces are no match for NATO. He then goes on to imply in any conflict with NATO, he would have no chance but to go nuclear and that is a war that has no winners. Yes, but he has no chance in a nuclear conflict either. Even less of one, unless he expects that the West will simply not retaliate if Russia uses tactical nuclear weapons… which of course it will. Then we are left with a strategic nuclear exchange, where… fair enough, he will kill a hundred million and damage the entire world; of course at the cost the complete annihilation of himself, his dream of greater Russia, and the very existence of his country as a nation state. I would like to think there is no person on this earth who is willing to sacrifice the lives of millions of their own population, and the existence of their whole country at the alter of their own pride. And frankly, “let me invade and conquer anyone I want or we will use nuclear weapons” is an impossible strategy. You don’t get to conquer Europe, or the world, because other countries who also have nuclear weapons cower before your threats to use yours. Incidentally, given Putin’s recent threats I have a question that has yet to be addressed by anyone. What does NATO do if Russia decides to deploy tactical nuclear weapons in the Ukraine? I feel like this is a an I acknowledged red line that would have to trigger some sort of NATO response. Edit Phone posting. ZombieLenin fucked around with this message at 21:14 on Feb 24, 2022 |
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Feb 24, 2022 20:57
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quote:Cool cool glad nuclear loving war is on the table. Reminding the insane douche bag who has literally threatened to use nuclear weapons twice in the last 24 hours that the people he is threatening also have nuclear weapons does not mean “nuclear war is on the table.” Quite the opposite, I think it translates to something like: “Hey, fuckhead, the side you keep threatening to use nuclear weapons on has not one, but three major nuclear armed states. Take a deep breath, dial the douchbaggary back down from a 12 to a 9 and stop acting like nuclear war is an option for Russia since we both know we would annihilate each other.”
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Feb 24, 2022 21:41
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A big flaming stink posted:https://twitter.com/BNONews/status/1496959123707109394 Well, when you’re invaded by Russia and the fate of your loving country is on the line, don’t you think it’s best to say, “hey it’s okay for your families to leave, but men of fighting age need to stick around just in case.” Arguments about the fairness of conscripting people to fight wars aside, this actually just reinforces my feeling that Ukraine is going to fight and resist, and just isn’t interested in Putin’s suggestion everyone lay down their arms and go home to be It’s good news, frankly, not bad news.
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Feb 24, 2022 23:07
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if this is actually true ukraine seems to be on the ropes already
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Shes Not Impressed posted:https://twitter.com/michaeldweiss/status/1496958588685856774?s=20&t=veeMYbjBnjn-ELjTvgDu6g Sucks to be that guy. I don’t know how Ukraine feels about capital punishment, but the Geneva Protocols still allow for non-uniformed combatants operating behind the front lines to be unceremoniously shot.
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Feb 24, 2022 23:19
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Kamrat posted:Thought we weren't supposed to post POWs? By technicality that’s not an a POW. That’s what a real “unlawful enemy combatant” looks like, you know before the second Bush administration decided to apply this to everyone captured in combat during the war on terror.
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Feb 24, 2022 23:27
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steinrokkan posted:What makes you assume Ukraine is executing POWs? That's a serious allegation to throw around This person would not be a POW. Like I, and others have said, a non-uniformed enemy combatant captured behind the lines is an unlawful enemy combatant, by category a spy or saboteur. Even under the current governing Geneva Protocols that govern armed conflict, Ukraine would be within its rights to have shot him where and when he was captured. That being said, I don’t think anyone is suggesting the Ukrainians actually did this.
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Feb 24, 2022 23:47
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TheRat posted:Stuff like this is just grotesque. I don’t mean to be flippant, but yes it is; then again so is invading a country without justification. Also I’m the category of grotesque is the entire process of warfare which is, even following the letter of the the ‘rules’ of war to exacting detail, is designed to kill, maim, or seriously injure the soldiers of the opposing belligerent. Legal weapons of war including those that kill by any number of methods outside of biological and chemical warfare, or for those who countries who are signatories to the 1997 treaty prohibiting the use of anti-personal mines—land mines. A great example of one of the more grotesque and legal weapons of war (they ALL are grotesque and sort of the anthesis of humane) are those designed to kill, maim, or injure by burning humans to death.
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Feb 24, 2022 23:59
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