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pippy
May 29, 2013

CRIMES
Oh you're against being invaded? You know who else is against being invaded? Nazis.

I guess if you're against being invaded you're pro-nazi. :smuggo:

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pippy
May 29, 2013

CRIMES

CommieGIR posted:

But there just so happens to be some Nazis there, obviously the invasion must go on. Just don't look at the invading Nazis, those are different Nazis.

Its Spy vs Spy but White Supremacy
If they actually believed that both sides were nazis wouldn't they want to arm the less powerful nazis to maximise the damage nazis can do to each other?

pippy
May 29, 2013

CRIMES

Sinteres posted:

I don't think anybody's said the existence of Azov Battalion justifies a Russian invasion, and you guys are punching pretty hard at strawmen.

I don't think it's too far off what some of them actually believe.

pippy
May 29, 2013

CRIMES

CeeJee posted:

This is the 'lol, made you form up a defense fleet' puppetmaster reasoning from Eve Online.

It's just a prank, bro!

pippy
May 29, 2013

CRIMES

cinci zoo sniper posted:

I’m inclined to agree with BM. Let’s wait for clean satellite photos before celebrating.

I want to believe, hopefully it's not the set up for a false flag.

pippy
May 29, 2013

CRIMES

Gros Tarla posted:

https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-696579

The video montage is pretty hilarious. Never knew it was possible to have multiple camera angles for a random IED find.

I'm grateful they protected those 4 pigeons from being blown up by that pile of sticks.

pippy
May 29, 2013

CRIMES

Kavros posted:

...

I really do want to know at what point Russia figured it didn't even need to make much of an effort at this, or at least do enough to make it look like less of a bad comic book movie B-plot when they play at false flag

It's almost like they enjoy how fake it is. But of course they can't be fascists because as we've been made aware, Ukraine has the fascists actually.

pippy
May 29, 2013

CRIMES
Wait, are they saying the troops are leaving to go back east or are they saying they're leaving Russia to invade Ukraine?

pippy
May 29, 2013

CRIMES

Regarde Aduck posted:

no one is falling for NATO's dumb false flag
What are you referring to?

pippy
May 29, 2013

CRIMES

GABA ghoul posted:

Maybe a new Patriarch got elected?

It's just a gender reveal party for a diplomat! Nothing to see here!

pippy
May 29, 2013

CRIMES

Kavros posted:

At this point, there's a large number of lines of commentary and personal belief that I'm just automatically checked out of caring about but I remain fascinated by beliefs like:

1. Russia was never going to attack, this was all a puppetmaster attack and putin is pulling the strings, making you dance
2. The west trying to stop Russia from invading and annexing an independent democracy is imperialism and colonialism
3. If Russia were to actually attack, invade, and annex an independent democracy, that's anti-imperialism and fixes colonialism
4. Also if Russia does actually attack, that doesn't make #1 wrong, for reasons. It was just a different kind of ruse after all
5. Russia is the one telling the truth here and you should trust their account. Except where they're puppetmastering, which, obviously, is still not going to make them not-trustworthy here

I don't think #1 is a totally wrong thing to believe, I just see it as an pointless argument to have. People can probably make some arguments based on their psychoanalysis of Putin that he was never going to invade. You can't know for certain someone else's mind so this always going to be probabilistic assessment. If you're 100% confident that Putin will invade or 5% I don't see that changing any anything prescriptively about how Ukraine or the rest of the world should be acting.

pippy
May 29, 2013

CRIMES
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHCxUFZpzY8
I'm confused by this accusation. Wasn't the Kindergarden on the Ukrainian controlled side? And I haven't seen people talk about Russia calling this an attack by Ukraine.

pippy
May 29, 2013

CRIMES

Majorian posted:

Everyone's favorite lil' neocon is beating the war drums:

https://twitter.com/marcorubio/status/1494788172626202629
Pointing out that Russia is manufacturing the pretext for an invasion is "beating the war drums"?

pippy
May 29, 2013

CRIMES

Majorian posted:

Biden hemorrhages credibility every time he says an invasion is imminent, and then it doesn't materialize. It makes him look like he's trying to manufacture consent, so he can make a war actually happen. It's the sort of language that the Marco Rubios of the West use when they beat the drums for war with Iran.

https://twitter.com/POTUS/status/1494863649500168193

The intent is behind call out Russia is explicitly to defang any potential justification they might use to actually invade. It also gives an easy win for Russia to point to these as the US being hysterical when the invasion doesn't happen. It incentives Russia to not actually invade or to at least delay.

What's the consent being manufactured here? The whole of NATO has ruled out a direct conflict with Russia in Ukraine, no one wants that.

pippy
May 29, 2013

CRIMES

Conspiratiorist posted:

Nobody wants that but their willingness to impose cost on Russia if they move ahead with it varies, and Washington wants everyone on the same page.

If that is what manufacturing consent is then I'm all for it in this case.

pippy
May 29, 2013

CRIMES

Majorian posted:

I honestly don’t see that as anything more than a lame post-hoc justification for the White House getting it wrong so many times in a row over this incident. Calling out Russia’s potential invasion strategies isn’t going to defang anything. If they invade, it’s going to largely follow the Georgia ‘08 model: breakaway region provokes the national government to send in the troops, Russia send in their troops and drive them off, and the breakaway region gets a new lease on life while weakening the national government. If that does end up happening (and I’m still skeptical), the whole “leaking it to the press so they put out another flurry of panicked pieces” model isn’t going to stop it. There are quicker ways of warning Zelensky.

So why would the US being wrong "make a war actually happen"?

pippy
May 29, 2013

CRIMES
The Washington Post is no angel.

pippy
May 29, 2013

CRIMES

Mebh posted:

So with Russia being pretty good at modern disinformation campaigns online (as evidenced by hoky poo poo the arguments about this across the entire Internet) I'm assuming taking nearly everything I read with a massive pinch of salt.

The aggressor here is Russia, you're nearly always going to be correct just assuming everything that paints them in a positive light in this conflict is untrue.

pippy
May 29, 2013

CRIMES

Willo567 posted:

I get people being worried about a big war, but calling it WW3 is really hyperbolic and dangerous as poo poo

How is it dangerous? That possibility has been expressly removed from the table by anyone able to bring that about, outside of maybe Russia.

pippy
May 29, 2013

CRIMES

Willo567 posted:

Because there a lot of people who don't normally follow Eastern Europe politics who are now because of the crisis, and people talking about WW3 alongside the crisis to those uninformed just brings out more misinformation.
The reason I'm against this framing is that Russia is using this logic to justify their invasion of Ukraine. The Russian narrative is that the US/NATO is encouraging conflict to happen by pointing out that Russia was likely to invade. Saying that "war is highly likely" is harmful if you're the one initiating the war, but that logic doesn't work when you're working to prevent it. At worst, you end up being wrong.

pippy
May 29, 2013

CRIMES
The oligarchs will surely revolt against putin when they can't get their PS5s.

pippy
May 29, 2013

CRIMES
I think it's just to prevent friendly fire.

pippy
May 29, 2013

CRIMES

Isn't the strategy to let areas be overrun and then cut them off and attack from their rear?

pippy fucked around with this message at 11:55 on Feb 24, 2022

pippy
May 29, 2013

CRIMES
EDIT: Replied instead of edit

pippy
May 29, 2013

CRIMES

I'm getting a "this page doesn’t exist" for this link.

pippy
May 29, 2013

CRIMES

Props to the the guy that managed to quickly find footage of the troops invading and throw it up as she was talking.

pippy
May 29, 2013

CRIMES
https://twitter.com/NeilPHauer/status/1497231090041430018

How will they know the difference between a "Ukrainian Volunteer Fighter" and a Civilian?

pippy
May 29, 2013

CRIMES

Lead out in cuffs posted:

Russia doesn't need to capture a nuclear reactor to have the capability to make a dirty bomb.

Correct, but Ukraine does not. I had same sinking feeling when Russian UN guy unprompted accused Ukraine of planing to destroy the sarcophagus.

pippy
May 29, 2013

CRIMES
https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1497553380616683527
Is this significant?

pippy
May 29, 2013

CRIMES

ZombieLenin posted:

Any photographic proof of the IL-76 claims from last night?

Ukraine is not showing any images because that would reveal the US Space Lasers shot them down. :tinfoil:

pippy
May 29, 2013

CRIMES
They must be getting desperate.
https://twitter.com/FedorovMykhailo/status/1497543633293266944

pippy
May 29, 2013

CRIMES

I guess Putin found the mole.

pippy
May 29, 2013

CRIMES

What do the buttons do?

pippy
May 29, 2013

CRIMES

tractor fanatic posted:

They have nukes

So does everyone else.

pippy
May 29, 2013

CRIMES

Upgrade posted:

In this essay I will demonstrate why Mario 64 is necessary to understand the psychology of Putin...

Who knows why he crushes turts? Perchance.

pippy
May 29, 2013

CRIMES

Are those Nuclear Aliens? I guess the war really did scare off those aliens that were just about to reveal themselves.

pippy
May 29, 2013

CRIMES
Putin talking right now, accusing Ukraine of using human shields:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Auq9mYxFEE

pippy
May 29, 2013

CRIMES
Is the goal to make Zelensky prove he's still in Kyiv so Russia can merc him as soon as he pops his head out of the bunker?

pippy
May 29, 2013

CRIMES

freeasinbeer posted:

Lmao if alien first contact ends this war.

I got some bad news buddy:
https://www.wionews.com/science/russia-ukraine-crisis-deterring-aliens-from-making-their-presence-known-says-ufo-specialist-449854

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pippy
May 29, 2013

CRIMES

ronya posted:

https://twitter.com/aviation07101/status/1500157654253064195

That seems... bad? The printer ran out of ink for the mission briefing? It's not like the Russian side is short of airbases in friendly territory surely

They're deadly afraid of "being hacked" that they're just going back to analog tech, maybe it's to do with that?

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