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I read this politico article posted in this thread: https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/05/13/madison-cawthorn-injury-profile-00032002 And after it, I went on a deep dive to Cawthorn's candidacy times and he was vastly different. Praising AOC, saying "black lives matter", and appearing as a fairly level headed GOP-er, and not at all really crazy. I thought that it's crazy how much long life in politics has changed him and then... holy poo poo it was January 3rd of last year. Dude's been in for bit over a year, and it's like two decades of scandals, craziness, and becoming not even a husk of the type of image he wanted to portray as a candidate. gently caress that was rapid.
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May 18, 2022 19:20
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Oracle posted:He was lying about all that poo poo hth. The mask just came off. I genuinely think lying about all that is a bit beyond his juvenile capabilities. I think he just went loving bonkers.
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May 18, 2022 19:29
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Dick Trauma posted:I cannot imagine as a private, unarmed citizen standing outside that school listening to gunfire that means the murder of children and not going in. Even if it meant certain death. If all I had was a rock I would pick it up and go in. I would not be able to live with myself if I did nothing. You would not, and this is super cringy right wing adjacent hero fantasizing. Facing down gunfire is a demanding psychological exercise, and extremely demanding. You can see body can videos of cops in firefights that yell and cry, because get this; it’s a human response to overwhelming fear. Only big city SWAT members would have any routine in facing down shooters, and those cops who were ex military and combat arms and deployed to war (a very small percent). ACAB to the bone doesn’t change the fact that we should not post some weird hero.txt screeds and doesn’t change the fact that IF IT IS TRUE that the two cops were injured and exhanged fire, that we can’t hold two loving cops responsible for getting injured in a gunfight and failing to press on. Expecting cops to be superhumans actually just plays into the Thin Blue Line narrative. They’re humans and government workers. Not some superheroes in a warzone with any special qualities. Anything more than that is just cop worship one way or another.
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May 26, 2022 18:11
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Farking Bastage posted:^^^ and supposedly now they kept parents away while it was happening in addition to pissing their soldier of fortune underwear. Yes it is actually the job of cops to prevent bystanders rushing into mass shooter situations. Having panicked parents running in would make the nightmare even worse. Vahakyla fucked around with this message at 18:16 on May 26, 2022 |
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May 26, 2022 18:11
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POWELL CURES KIDS posted:Friendly reminder that US police actually have no duty to protect, and would've been legally within their rights to eat ice cream and put on suntan lotion while the shooting was in progress. Same applies to firemen and cops in most countries. It isn’y a big gotcha.
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May 26, 2022 18:17
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TGLT posted:It is when American cops spend most their time jerking themselves off about being heroic sheepdogs who are the thin blue line between society and chaos. So let’s not loving jerk with them?
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May 26, 2022 18:18
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TGLT posted:I don't think expecting the people with a shitload of guns and armor to shoot a teenager with a scary vest is feeding into the idea that they're superhuman heroes. They're usually pretty loving good at doing that. Most of them aren’t great at it because they never do it and nothing ever happens statistically. Only in big city SWAT would you have any routinee, really.
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May 26, 2022 18:22
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POWELL CURES KIDS posted:Which countries, just out of curiosity? In Finland, the duty to rescue ties both bystanders and government workers, but clearly defines that to the extent of their abilities and the totality of circumstances. In italy, the duty to rescue ties similarly both, but has a looser definition. Most Civil Law countries have a duty to rescue, or duty to act, that compels all bystanders of sound mind and body to act to their extent, but also where the duty is defined in legal terms as duty to act within reason or with the totality of the circumstances in mind. For the fire service, it can not be held against them that the house burned down, or they didn't make it there on time. For police, they can not be required to act in all situations, as not to create a legal burden where A Bad Thing Happening makes the organization of Police liable to some extent. A strict requirement to act uniformly in all situations would mean that. Patrol car didn't make it on time? Your fault, you are legally responsible because your duty ties you to all events equally. It's the same here. Committing crimes should mean you get convicted as a cop, and does when you're a fireman. Breaking department rules mean admin punishment. But bad things happening isn't your fault, nor your responsibility. To some extent, depending on jurisdiction, laws, and department policies, it often is summed as "at any given moment, you _should_ do what you reasonably and safely can". That is what the Supreme Court decision also ultimately affirms. The fact that cops loving suck, and that cops don't do what's expected is a grave issue, but stems from cops being poo poo and cop unions being poo poo and politicians being poo poo, but it isn't fixed with an arbitrary requirement that law enforcement (and by that extent the authority behind them; county, state, municipality etc) would be liable for harm. That would mean you can sue your city and get money if cops or firemen didn't appear in half a second, or even patrol your domicile. It isn't some gotcha, because it's the way the issue is viewed in all countries pretty much. No succesful public entity could bear the burden of being responsible for emergencies.
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May 26, 2022 18:34
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TGLT posted:I'm saying when it's a black kid in a hoodie you can't stop them from magdumping. They had overwhelming numbers, equipment, and training, and instead they elected to chill out in a parking lot while they "contained him" in a classroom full of children. Expecting them to do the thing they are trained and paid to do when they have clear superiority isn't demanding they be heroic - it's demanding they do the thing they ostensibly exist for. Pointing out the clear disconnect between police rhetoric and actual police action is not feeding into some Thin Blue Line narrative. It's very blood boiling, and cops don't really prevent crime like fire inspection prevents fires. When the bullets fly, the best case scenario is to mitigate the damage, but you won't stop a shooting. It's already happening. That's also what's so maddening about all the loving right wing talking heads who wank off over cop tactics or number of cops. I don't want a society where shootings are resolved with gunfire. I want them not even start.
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May 26, 2022 18:36
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Lemming posted:I don't think it's fundamentally unreasonable to hold cops to their own standards, since these are the cops who have claimed they need all this tacticool bullshit to be Heoroes, and call these specific cops disgusting cowards. That said, it's also obviously true that there is no "good" armed response to this scenario for the reasons you indicated, and randoms with guns will also just get themselves killed or kill random other innocent people Precisely. Which is why my ideal society has some small well trained and regulated armed response force to mitigate the worst situations, but otherwise poo poo is resolved with other means. Cops in America, or elsewhere, are just a security blanket for most people, and they often aggravate societal ills, and most certainly don't loving help most of them, and their only actual useful utility is an armed response force in the most gravest situations, but instead they shoot black kids. But, it's worth pointing out to the poster of that twitter link that establishing a perimeter that no one can go into, and no one can get out, is like textbook 101 A Good Thing Armed Cops can do at an event like this, no matter how frustrating it feels to watch.
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May 26, 2022 18:37
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ImpAtom posted:You are literally arguing that you can't do anything about an active shooter so all you can really do is let them slaughter children and try to stop the next one. Where do I argue that? Establish perimeter, prevent more people going in, and prevent anyone from leaving. Gather enough forces, and go in and do what you can. Letting random parents in doesn't solve it, and running in with two school cops is also probably not gonna do it.
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May 26, 2022 18:49
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I got too late to a scene to help a dead cop out of a river who was an idiot related to this discussion. During a major flooding event in Pennsylvania a lady was stuck in a car inside massive floodwater confluence, and this cop was radioing us firefighters to get there. People screaming on the scene yelling that something has to be done eventually peer pressured the cop, without a safety line or a partner, to go into the water to try to help the woman. The cop got washed away, entered a manhole, and washed (obviously dead) ashore some five miles from that scene. We got there, put on a dive suit, and with a safety line rescued the woman. The cop didn't help anyone, and only caused further injury, and demanded more from already stressed emergency services by having people look for him. Similar situations happened with non-cops putting themselves into the flood waters to try to help. Ultimately the cop just loving died and didn't help anyone. He did precisely what one is supposed to not do, because it doesn't loving HELP. I think it's similar to this. Limiting the scope and size of the emergency is a valid tactic, and also very important. Recognizing that you can't improve something is also a valid tactic, and waiting for more manpower, or a map or whatever, or a loving safety line for water rescue, is valid too.
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May 26, 2022 18:54
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WorkerThread posted:You're saying you think the cops did the right thing, then. Wouldn't change anything. I don't really think ultimately American cops can do very many things right and I think they often make things worse with their loving gun play.
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May 26, 2022 18:59
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Groovelord Neato posted:I shouldn't have to say this but a flood is not a guy armed with a rifle. Two school cops who have never been in a gunfight armed with two pistols facing against a guy in armor and with a rifle is probably actually comparable. The rifle nerd has probably more ammo in his one mag than one cop carries total. It's a pretty hopeless situation. They will serve as targets, or as donators of two new pistols.
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May 26, 2022 19:01
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WorkerThread posted:You're evading my question by answering something I didn't ask. Containment and assault were probably in this case the most reasonable solution.
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May 26, 2022 19:02
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CommieGIR posted:
The classroom he was in probably was massacred in a course of few seconds if the reports are true.
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May 26, 2022 19:04
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WorkerThread posted:Broke brained debate lord. I hate cops but they are all we have right now to respond to shootings. If I was a parent watching the cops shuffle around in their full body armor while my kid's school is being shot up... your cold rationality is as empty as you are. I'll take special offence to being cold a debate lord, considering I've put chest seals on shooting victims at a loving school but go for it. More heroic cops would not have fixed this and that's my opinion. THis isn't me "defending" cops, this is me hating the American cops with burning passion. There's no reality where there's heroic armed cops who risk their lives for kids and solve problems.
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May 26, 2022 19:11
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CommieGIR posted:
What loving kind of gotcha is this? You are correct, I do not have a solution to american school shootings. I have some ideas how the nightmare, as it is unleashing, gets mitigated a little bit. Besides that, no, we haven't actually found a good way to solve them after they happen. And we won't, hence why we should prevent them. Armed dude with a rifle in every room would still not prevent deaths. YOU GOT ME!
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May 26, 2022 19:13
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BonoMan posted:There is actually a solution. Repeal the second amendment, confiscate guns and make owning one a felony. That isn't a reactive solution to a shooting that's underway. I'm all for regulating the gently caress out of firearms to prevent shootings.
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May 26, 2022 19:15
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CommieGIR posted:Its not a gotcha, this was your post: Catchy word that "killzone", but containment and assault afterward is often used in most insanely violent and unpredictable situations. With limited info, it's usually the choice one should make. I don't know enough what happened there, and I don't believe in using hindsight to construct a narrative in how we could have picked the situation apart.
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May 26, 2022 19:17
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CommieGIR posted:
...do you want panicked parents to be allowed into a situation like this? I am legitimately asking.
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May 26, 2022 19:19
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CommieGIR posted:If the police are unwilling to do anything: YES. If the Police are so inept they cannot react to a shooter, let someone else try. Alright. I got nothing further to say, then.
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May 26, 2022 19:20
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BiggerBoat posted:What about a killdozer? Dude made that out of a bulldozer, some steel plates and some reinforced concrete then leveled an entire town He died op. That’s how all resistance ultimately ends when it comes to the finish line. There just aren’t any real victories. Maybe Battle of Athens in 1946. They’re rare. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Athens_(1946) In almost all those cases federal response was delayed or purposefully ”waiting” for a bit like in Athens, but especially when it comes down to the National Guard and armored vehicles, that’s when the song ends.
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May 26, 2022 23:04
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So several different instagram pages, some credible like OAF_actual that does decent reporting posted this picture, saying this is of the off-duty Border Patrol agent who is a member of BORTAC and shot the shooter, but who was grazed by a bullet in return. Not really NSFW, not bad gore at all, shows some staples on a grazing head injury, looks like a scrape.  
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May 28, 2022 07:47
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Mulva posted:There aren't enough soldiers to cover the United States. They aren't going to have enough drones and helicopters to lock poo poo down, and they could only come close by pulling literally every single overseas soldier we have. Even then that gets you.....maybe 3 or 4 of your more contentious states? Maybe? Also they are super loving obvious. If you learned nothing from the last 20 years of military involvement in the Middle East it's that an actual occupation of hostile territory is loving miserable and challenging, and we didn't even do that good a job at it. This is literal pure fantasy. You will die. When the United States has lost, like Afghanistan, it has lost 3000 troops, and opposing side lost hundreds of thousands. The casualty numbers are equally whack and completely out of proportion. in Iraq and Vietnam and Somalia. Just because the US military behemoth fails to achieve all its goals doesn't mean the irregulars somehow "win". This is freeper level gun fantasy and in reality you will eat the bushmaster cannon of off a Bradley that sees you on the thermal imager, or you catch a bomb from a drone. Jesus.
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May 28, 2022 20:38
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Herstory Begins Now posted:i believe vahakyla is talking about the totality of people killed, not merely people actively involved in fighting? Correct. Because the the ones not involved in the fighting in our example are your neighbors, lovers, and family.
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May 28, 2022 22:50
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Any regulation or administrative rule change that both: -potentially reduce deaths from firearm violence -hurt zero legit gun hobbyists who hunt etc Is just an unequivocal good, and I appreciate it because in this loving country we claw progress one inch at a time often. Complaining about it is like ”bloobloo we didn’t ban all guns anyway!” is pure poo poo. It’s not to credit Trump. It’s just being a pragmatic person about gun deaths. Any potential deaths removed with a a rule change that literally doesn’t even hinder a legal gun owner is a gun regulation wet dream, no matter how small the effect is on a large scale.
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May 31, 2022 05:41
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World Famous W posted:I've been saying feed your neighbors and start a food bank for a minute. I just ain't recruiting for any political party and have focused on trying to get the community to help one another instead Well not a very effective political change movement, then.
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Jun 1, 2022 22:58
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:Which ones? There isn't. US has highest number of guns per capita in civilian ownership. What he refers to, possibly, is the number of gun owners without counting the amount of guns. Finland, Switzerland, Italy, lot of eastern european countries have a high number of gun owners, but there's relatively few guns because usually a hunter owns a bolt action rifle and a shotgun, and a sports shooter has one Ar-15 and one pistol. Literally no body has those insane troves that you see in US gun owners.  https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/gun-ownership-by-country
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Jun 2, 2022 15:58
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Blue Footed Booby posted:
Ding ding ding it's this. Lot of countries are very close to the US with households with a gun stat, but nowhere near with the amount of gun.
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Jun 2, 2022 16:07
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selec posted:Going to go with my unpopular opinion that it should not be illegal to lie to law enforcement until you are on the stand. It's the same as any government official really. You can't lie to the County Auditor or the Tax Man. It probably wouldn't be good for the society where lying to the government in conduct of official business is allowed.
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Jun 4, 2022 05:59
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haveblue posted:Just turn golf courses into public parks. You wouldn't even need to redevelop them, just knock down all the fences America stands as a stark contrast to Europe, because the US has a huge amount of public, tax-supported golf courses that require no membership to play on, and the USGA sponsors a gently caress ton of kids golf camps for random rear end low income kids. That's essentially Not A Thing in Europe, where golf is tied to membership and club stock, and patronage. You can already take your kids to a Municipal Course, and poke around for free or low cost opportunities to both learn and play. Now the big exclusive private courses on the other hand, nationalize or raze. Vahakyla fucked around with this message at 00:31 on Jun 21, 2022 |
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Jun 21, 2022 00:28
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