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my guess is that trans women aren't dominating the elite levels of womens sport because they aren't using gear
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Apr 17, 2022 07:05
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The worst submarine posted:Given - world class athletes are rare outliers with genetic advantages suited to their sport (i.e. basketplayers are tall) as it is, and i would be surprised if just being trans is enough to trump all of those rare characteristics that an athlete would need to compete at the elite level. one exception could be for strength sports but then like i joked earlier, a trans strength athlete is probably the only one not supplementing androgenic compounds so i doubt this is going to be a big disproportionate issue. i have very much enjoyed reading the d&d sports experts posts itt tho
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Apr 17, 2022 07:31
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if you want your hypothetical scare issue show me data that shows transgender athletes dominating at less competetive levels and taking all the scholarships and college admissions. but i haven't heard about that either yet.
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Apr 17, 2022 07:34
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The worst submarine posted:I've seen my own death. A transwoman fatally javelin throws me in France. I must prevent this - by any means. there are around 500,000 trans women in the us. according to the bureau of labor statistics 80% of them are internet posters leaving only 100,000 engaged in any sort of daily sport or exercise. of all high school football players only .02 percent of them make it to the nfl and go pro. this means there are 20 elite trans women athletes in the country, and frankly they just don't have the numbers to take all the trophys.
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Apr 17, 2022 07:56
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Herstory Begins Now posted:idk i think you should go read up on poo poo on your own rather than asking dumbass questions here because all of your posts so far sound stupid as gently caress and have nothing to do with the thread topic. The obvious solution is just give prisoners piles of contraceptives because you will never, ever stop prisoners from loving it's about time we ban trans women from participating in the prison rodeos imo
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Apr 17, 2022 15:21
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Colonel Cool posted:And it keeps getting people to say that actually, yes, it should be allowed, no level of sex based competitive advantage is too much. Which I think is crazy and I think most people would think is crazy. It seems like a pretty useful hypothetical to me. sports aren't fair and they self-select at high levels for people that have the genetic attributes that allow them (along with hard work, training, & skill) to succeed at them. i think it's probably reasonable to hypothesize that mtf peopel have some sort of physical advantage conferred by going through puberty as a male but there is no evidence that it would overshadow all the other elements that go in to making a successful athlete in most sports. you're talking abotu blanket bans across all levels of sports for a hypothetical genetic outlier that would qualify as an elite athlete and then also happen to be trans it's most likely safe to let the .2% of the population that is trans compete and be terrible at sports like the vast majority of everyone else if they want
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Apr 17, 2022 15:33
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UCS Hellmaker posted:Hell we have people in this very thread that explained how going on her actually made them weaker and it harder to work out!!!! i don't trust anyone in d&d about working out or sports Colonel Cool posted:Uh, no I'm not. i only read the first few of your posts and the one i replied to. what sports do you think trans women should be banned form?
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Apr 17, 2022 15:38
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Colonel Cool posted:It's not controversial to say that going on HRT will result in performance degradation for trans women. The question is if that level of degradation is sufficient to equalize the playing field with cis women. you're generalizing talking about blanket sports and performance what does any of this mean
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Apr 17, 2022 15:41
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Colonel Cool posted:Nothing high school level or lower, no matter what. Above that, none currently, with the potential for "some" depending on what the eventual data shows, what the experts in the field decide, and what our society eventually decides our philosophical stance on unfairness is. our society's philosophical stance on fairness in sports is based ona bullshit horatio algier view that it's all hard work and bootstraps that make you the best. this is why we ban steroids and wring our hands to much to stop olympic athletes from taking sudafed but then let water-ape freaks like michael phelps still compete it's better to just assume there's no problem here (because we havent seen one), and if the data comes out and all of a sudden all 20 elite trans athletes in the usa win all the trophies and no scholarships or trophies are left for cis women then maybe talk about it? but it seems like the people arguing against this are either trying to maintain an illusion of fairness that doesn't exist, or are trying to oppress trans people nobody watches women's sports anyway it is shocking and suspicious to me that all of a sudden people care about this
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Apr 17, 2022 15:47
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i'm sympathetic to the concern shown for the mediocre cis athlete that doesn't make the top 10 because a trans athlete bumped them out, but rather than reducing the trans person's victory to their gender identity, the losing cis athlete should comfort themselves by claiming their opponents were doping or cheating as is tradition and a non-bigoted position
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Apr 17, 2022 15:55
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BRAKE FOR MOOSE posted:The weirdest thing about this thread is the yo-yo'ing between "there is no performance advantage" and "it doesn't even matter if there's a performance advantage." If your position is the latter then why on earth are you spending 10 pages arguing with someone about the former, when the answer is irrelevant? My brain is bleeding. elite athletes are the sum total of the circumstances of their birth, structural advantages they enjoyed as children, access to competetive teams/facilities/etc, support networks encouraging their participation, and then a lot of hard work and talent. the american societal notion that sports are or should be fair is a cultural framework that is similar to the one used to justify the wealth inequality under capitalism. both steroids and trans athletes threaten to expose the contradictions in an explicit way so that's why there's all the hand wringing about it
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Apr 17, 2022 16:45
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Average Bear posted:Calmly disagreeing with me is bigotry. sometimes i think the basic reality of this is that yes being mtf probably confers some advantages in the same way that once you run a cycle of sterioids, some of the gains are permanent. this has not been shown to be such an outsized advantage to significantly make women's sports less competetive at any level, and with a couple elite outliers who cares. there's always some genetic freak to come along and blow everyone out of the water, and being trans is likely not the ~huge advantage~ the haters seem to think it is. and it's certainly not enough of an advantage to outweigh all of the other "unfair"advantages elite athletes have to accumulate to perform at their level. if it were, all the trans posters in this thread would be winning scholarships and medals instead of posting in d&d culture war bigots aside, well-intentioned people hyperfocusing on trans advantages in women's sport seems derivative of culture in general believing steroids are magic and isn't based in reality. sport as a human activity across the entire spectrum is self-selects to provide arenas of competition for people that excel in different fields due to whatever innate foundation they have. different body types excel at different sports. it's ridiculous to claim that the key to performing well in sport in general is solely exposure to androgenic hormones. Average Bear posted:Not by anyone I have any reason to respect.
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Apr 17, 2022 17:45
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Kavros posted:This entire thread has become a test case where we watch as the absolute practical limits of "we will not moderate positions" creak and shudder and build up pressure and want to utilize the defacto release valves very clearly being used to keep the idea functional nobody has really taken the opposing position in anything other t han really nebulous "nobody knows there's no data" terms, and the only people itt that seem to know anything about sports all appear to be taking the position "who cares let them compete". like if anyone can show me actual evidence of a formerly competetive sport being completely dominated by trans women im all ears, but ultimately this all just sounds like culture war poo poo trying to pique sympathy for the middle of the road cis athlete that didn't qualify because of a single trans competitor? like if you think there's compelling evidence that shows trans women shouldn't compete in combat sports or something like that go hog wild. i'd be interested to hear about it because my gut reaction is that it's a bad idea too, but as far as i know alana mclaughlin hasn't murdered anyone in the ring yet so
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Apr 17, 2022 18:56
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like i'm not coming at this from a trans ally civil rights position (i think that's something totally separate) if people transitioning are ruining women's sports (lol) i'd be totally fine with addressing that because i think we should have structures in place that allow people to compete in physical activities across the board because it's an enormous part of human development, but i don't see it happening. we don't allow people with various disabilities or conditions or whatever to compete in various sports in all sorts of circumstances and i don't see why it would be any different for trans people (not saing they're disabled). if it's a safety issue or it just completely ruins the established competitive field this is something i would be fine with addressing. im not scared to say trans athletes shouldn't compete if it ruins a sport, because life isn't fair and sport is about making a competitive spectacle that is fun to watch and participate in. but i haven't seen that i'll never get to be mr olympia because i don't have the genetics, discipline, money, or drive for it and that's horseshit and it's not fair but it's reality and we can't just ban everyone that responds well to steroids from bodybuilding (because it would make it terrible). Fluffdaddy posted:Not exactly excluded, but Patricio Manuel can't get a fight because cismen are too scared to fight him because machismo sexist bullshit.
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Apr 17, 2022 19:17
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| # ¿ May 22, 2024 13:57 |
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. already posted
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Apr 18, 2022 00:33
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