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Herstory Begins Now posted:imo if you statistically outperform your peers in sports you should get medals and contracts to promote shoes and a sandwich named after you at your local sandwich shop This is why I have found the entire argument about fairness invalid. The point is to use every advantage granted to you in life to defeat your peers. No one ever gets up in arms about rich folks or those with a genetic quirk getting ahead. Why should transgender athletes be any different even if there were advantages? It’s silly on its face. Then again I also don’t find any issues with folks juicing or augmenting their bodies if the person is a 100% willing participant so I may be an edge case. However I have found this argument works on gym rats so lol. Edit: just in case I wasn’t clear, I am not saying transgender athletes are equivalent to juicing. I am not. What I’m saying is sports competition by their very nature aren’t even fair and so any argument about “fairness” is bullshit. Everyone should be able to compete. gently caress arbitrary rules. virtualboyCOLOR fucked around with this message at 15:20 on Apr 7, 2022 |
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Apr 7, 2022 14:39
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Gentleman Baller posted:I'm curious, if you think the fairness argument is invalid/silly because sports aren't fair, would you be okay with trans women who haven't undergone HRT competing in women's sports, since they are women? Arguing for fairness is sports is like arguing if there is fairness under capitalism. It can’t be fair by the very definition of the subject. There will always be those with advantages (real or perceived by bigots) others could never obtain. It’s 100% an invalid argument used to define arbitrary rules that are defined by the elite. Transgender athletes are the gender they identify with. I don’t think anyone needs to go under go any treatment unless they want.
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Apr 7, 2022 16:01
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Gentleman Baller posted:Of course but there's levels to this. Capitalism is definitionally unfair, sure, but when peoples bosses commit wage theft, and someone says that's unfair I wouldn't exactly call that an 'invalid argument.' I'd probably agree with them, personally. I strongly disagree. Wage theft is a feature of capitalism, not a bug. You have to dismantle the system to remove it. Calling it out is good but adding rules to capitalism doesn’t actually resolve the root cause. For sports: they’re fun. Let people have fun. Those that want to be the “best” should be able to use every advantage. It’s a competition. Hell, the Olympics were excluding CIS women for having too much testosterone. It’s stupid, arbitrary, and only exists based on the whims of the elite. Those that care about “fairness” here are either bigots, fooling themselves, or have other ulterior motives.
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Apr 7, 2022 17:08
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Gentleman Baller posted:Sure, I grant you all this but just to fully clarify, if someone says, "wage theft is unfair." that is invalid to you? Or would you agree that, despite capitalism being definitionally unfair, and how many of the rules are arbitrary, things can still be particularly unfair under capitalism? Capitalism is unfair on its face. Full stop. Pointing out that wage theft exists is like pointing out that there are athletes that have the privilege of a specialized gym, top of the class coaches, nutritionists, etc. Its baked in. Additionally, I think the issue here for the comparison is no one is forcing several countries worth of people into sports just to eat. On top of that the wage theft comparison could come across as transgendered athletes stealing from someone so it’s not a good look overall. quote:Does that extend to people who think trans women who haven't undergone HRT shouldn't be competing against cis women? Or are there other reasons someone might care about fairness in that case? If a person willingly participated in sports then I don’t give a single gently caress what their thoughts are about transgendered athletes undergoing HRT. They chose to participate. The argument is silly on its face to me and just another stupid wedge to bash transgendered athletes and, frankly, the human body. Again, the Olympics goes so far as to regulate testosterone levels is cis women. It’s loving stupid.
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Apr 7, 2022 20:26
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This thread is great and even expands the issue beyond trans rights as it’s all basic loving human rights / “don’t be a loving rear end in a top hat” Summary Gender is a social construct: Blurred posted:A lot of conservative forces around the world (particularly religious ones) get a lot of mileage from the intuitive idea that "men are men and women are women", appealing to the idea that the genders are defined by some immutable essence (forged either by God or biology) which separates humans into two different and separate natures. This "common sense" intuition is then usually leveraged in service of socially regressive gender roles, which of course typically work to the benefit of men and to the detriment of women. While there are of course biological differences between the sexes, I think most of us will agree that many, if not most of the manifest differences in gender expression are socially constructed and that we are enculturated into somehow acting as "men" and "women". Sports are, by definition, inherently “unfair” with arbitrary rules: Victar posted:Those rules used to require gonadectomy for trans women athletes, but not anymore. Now, the rules for trans women athletes require having spent a certain period of time living as a woman, and no more than a certain amount of testosterone in the body for a specific length of time prior to competition. VitalSigns posted:This sounds unfair to me and we really ought to have a talk about banning people above average height for their gender from sports Scratch a liberal, and a conservative bleeds: How are u posted:I'm someone who was slightly sympathetic to the argument that there need to be rules and regulations regarding where and how trans-women can compete in sports, because it seemed so obvious that people who go through male-puberty will, on a large enough scale, end up with some physical differences that could prove advantageous in sport compared to people who go through female-puberty. (please pardon me if my terminology is wrong, I acknowledge my ignorance). Squinty posted:Personally, I'd lean towards allowing transwomen to compete, and then in 20 years if every center in the WNBA and every middle blocker at the Olympics is transgender, maybe then you reevaluate. virtualboyCOLOR fucked around with this message at 23:30 on Apr 8, 2022 |
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Apr 8, 2022 23:22
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Just Chamber posted:While people who went through male puberty will of course have the strength advantages etc over those who went through female puberty what I'm curious about is has there been studies that show that HRT completely eradicates the advantageous male biology like higher bone density to the point a trans woman is on an equal playing field than a cis woman? You know what’s great? In relation to sports: It doesn’t mean a god drat thing either way. Even entertaining the idea is to fundamentally misunderstand the nature of sports and athleticism. Even better? Anyone who gives a drat about this in relation to sports is transphobic aka anti-human rights and therefor their opinion on the matter is invalid. It speaks the core of one’s character is this bothers someone even in the slightest.
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Apr 9, 2022 02:57
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Internaut! posted:But when many ITT won't even go so far as to admit the reason this issue is being talked about is that there's a recurring theme in sport of middling to inadequate men transitioning to women and reaping the rewards, I don't see much point in debate. Your entire arguments rests on the fact that sports need to fair but you haven’t shown how that can possible be even between cis gendered athletes. Instead you seem to want to be spout transphobic nonsense. Apparently hate speech and anti-human rights rhetoric is allowed in D&D as long folks speak with the veneer of decorum.
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Apr 9, 2022 03:20
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A big flaming stink posted:gently caress you, you transphobic piece of poo poo. Koos if you're gonna probe me for being indecorous at least ban this freak for spewing bigotry. empty whippet box posted:idgaf if I eat a probe for saying it, this needs to be said in this thread, you should be loving banned for this post. garbage like you has no place here and you should leave and never come back. gently caress you, and gently caress anyone who defends you. Going to have to agree with the sentiment here. I understand being a mod is a thankless job and all that, but D&D continues to show a habit of allowing posters to spew vile content as long as it’s wrapped up in “polite” posting etiquette. This thread has proved to be a honeypot but in the way of demonstrating what is truly of value to the D&D community. There is no legitimate reason a person can’t tell a transphobic (aka anti human rights) poster to “gently caress off” or “eat poo poo”. Allowing those posters to turn threads into recreations of calm-hitler-comic.jpg and then probating the ones arguing for human rights looks really lovely. We can, and should, do better. Not by polite words, but by demonstrating the core of our character. virtualboyCOLOR fucked around with this message at 05:33 on Apr 9, 2022 |
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Apr 9, 2022 05:30
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Fister Roboto posted:Hypothetically, could someone make a post arguing that the cranial capacity of black people made them suited for a life of servitude, as long as it was well reasoned and cited scholarly work? Koos Group posted:Someone could make a post like that, yes If there is anything that defines the state of the D&D community it is this right here.
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Apr 9, 2022 18:08
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BRAKE FOR MOOSE posted:Uh, or, maybe don't conflate race and DSD, because what you're doing here is minimizing the discrimination that DSD and trans individuals face. It is "explicitly" enforcing a sex and gender binary, and though I absolutely think WA maintains white supremacy, this is a pretty garbage example to hang that on. Unless I’m misunderstanding what is being said, why can’t it be both? It’s just a perfect example of how arbitrary rules are made by elites in a thing that can never be “fair” (sports) as a means to discriminate the already disenfranchised. It’s personally my shortcut example to determine if someone is a piece of poo poo racist and transphobe, especially those that consider themselves on the liberal end of the spectrum. virtualboyCOLOR fucked around with this message at 14:07 on Apr 12, 2022 |
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Apr 12, 2022 14:02
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