The LGBTQIA+ Thread: I don't watch MMA, I just wanna be pretty

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > The LGBTQIA+ Thread: I don't watch MMA, I just wanna be pretty

Jaxyon: Mar 7, 2016; Can't post for 25 hours!

Liquid Communism posted:

I'd like to chime in and note this right here is an enormous can of worms.

Bisexuality's naming convention is a lot older than discourse around the modern model of gender identity being a spectrum. A better working definition of bisexuality is 'attraction to more than one gender', where as pansexuality more accurately is defined as 'attraction regardless of gender'.

Unfortunately the definitions used above have been used by certain people to harass bisexual people by claiming they are inherently transphobic or prejudiced against non-binary people, both of which are fairly absurd and pretty offensive.

Was going to post something on this.

I think the best way to look at it is that bisexual and pansexual can often mean the exact same thing or close to with very subtle differences. Or they could have a very specific idiosyncratic meaning for that person.

The key is "if someone tells you what their sexuality is you don't get to correct them".

There's exactly zero point to policing this kind of thing other than gatekeeping and making GBS threads on others. Not that anyone is doing that here, but we both have seen it happen.

I know several bisexual people who use the 'pan' definition you've given to describe themselves.

# ¿ Apr 12, 2022 08:32

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ¿ May 11, 2024 14:57

Jaxyon: Mar 7, 2016; Can't post for 25 hours!

Sapiosexuality and demisexuality are absolutely orientations but they are not being marginalized, oppressed, and legislated against specifically.

# ¿ Apr 19, 2022 19:49

Jaxyon: Mar 7, 2016; Can't post for 25 hours!

So this twitter thread has been making the rounds on social media, but it's really fascinating and underscores how gender dysphoria and non-conformity has always been around, but not recognized.

https://twitter.com/peytonology/status/1516612189687324673

# ¿ Apr 21, 2022 23:04

Jaxyon: Mar 7, 2016; Can't post for 25 hours!

Sharkie posted:

Just a reminder that D&D is not safe or welcoming for trans people.

Often not women or minorities as well, but explicitly not for transgender people.

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

# ¿ Apr 24, 2022 23:09

Jaxyon: Mar 7, 2016; Can't post for 25 hours!

Koos Group posted:

Yes, I apologize.

That's not much of an apology.

# ¿ Apr 25, 2022 18:49

Jaxyon: Mar 7, 2016; Can't post for 25 hours!

Sex change in animals is not unheard of but it's harder to establish gender. And as its socially constructed, I'd imagine youd have to look in fairly advanced species to find gender issues.

However, here's a study on some lions.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/aje.12360

# ¿ Apr 26, 2022 01:52

Jaxyon: Mar 7, 2016; Can't post for 25 hours!

Twelve by Pies posted:

So I feel like this is probably a better place to ask than the right wing media thread, though I'll try and keep these kinds of questions to a minimum (I just think people here may be more knowledgeable).

Some right wing radio show was talking about how some European country (I don't remember which one. Sweden maybe?) was very accomodating to trans people and supportive of their gender identity, and said that research showed that suicide rates for trans people was actually higher there than it was elsewhere. It's a right wing guy, so this is obviously either outright bullshit, the country wasn't as accomodating as he claims, or he's twisting some facts, but I'm not sure what. I know that this is very little information to go on, but does anyone know what research this guy was referring to and how it's bullshit?

It's referencing this Heritage paper.

Here's an interview with one of the authors of the study that the paper uses to make that argument.

This study does not show that SRS does not work. It says it very much does. The study does not claim that trans people are worse off after surgery or that they show no improvement. It's being misinterpreted.

It says that medical transitions do work, but that society is still incredibly cruel to transgender patients and we are not doing enough to prevent that harm.

That's why the discussions of this by transphobes always make sure to make a vague claim about how supportive Sweden is. They're lying and the study literally says they are.

Jaxyon fucked around with this message at 19:46 on Apr 27, 2022

# ¿ Apr 27, 2022 18:03

Jaxyon: Mar 7, 2016; Can't post for 25 hours!

Dr. Stab posted:

The argument by transphobes is that since the study shows that transitioned trans people have higher suicide rates than the general population, people shouldn't "become trans."

Or, rather, that's if you press them on it. They start by just lying about what the study says.

It's part of several other arguments as well, but it comes down to:

Our bigotry is proven science
Here's the one study
No I have not read the study I'm just a bigot

# ¿ Apr 27, 2022 21:29

Jaxyon: Mar 7, 2016; Can't post for 25 hours!

smug n stuff posted:

Looking at the blog post thing, it looks like a key error is that the version that user Twelve by Pies heard was that Swedish trans people commit suicide at a higher rate than trans people elsewhere. The study shows that Swedish trans people are more likely to commit suicide than Swedish cis people, for the reasons posters have discussed. There's no comparison to suicidality elsewhere.

Does anyone know, is such data available? Like, country-by-country or state-by-state data on mental health/suicidality of trans people?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5178031/

As an aside, is anyone uncomfortable with talking about this subject or how we are handling?

I just want to check in because it could possibly be triggering to folks.

# ¿ Apr 27, 2022 22:49

Jaxyon: Mar 7, 2016; Can't post for 25 hours!

Dr. Stab posted:

What's weird is that there are studies that show mixed results for srs outcomes (that are smaller or methodologically flawed). But for some reason they keep using this study that shows clear benefit.

Again they don't actually read the studies they just need something to link to to pretend their bigotry has scientific basis.

They don't care about the science, and if you try to talk science with them they will declare the 'debate' over.

# ¿ Apr 28, 2022 00:40

Jaxyon: Mar 7, 2016; Can't post for 25 hours!

Craptacular! posted:

This is gonna sound kind of like I never developed empathy, but a certain number of teenagers die every year, and some of them are queer. Proportionally how many of them are queer, I haven�t seen any details to see how it aligns with the general population.

About 30 seconds of googling on the search term "queer children disproportionately suicide"

quote:

Sexual minority adolescents were substantially more likely to report suicide risk behaviors.

quote:

After adjusting for potential confounders, sexual minority adolescents were significantly more likely to consider, plan, or attempt suicide (risk ratio [RR]: 2.45 [95% CI, 2.12-2.81] for considering, 2.59 [95% CI, 2.18-3.04] for planning, and 3.37 [95% CI, 2.73-4.09] for attempting) than heterosexuals.

By subgroup, lesbian, gay, bisexual, and questioning adolescents were all at elevated risk for suicide relative to heterosexuals. For instance, bisexuals were more likely to consider (46.0% [95% CI, 41.5%-50.4%]; RR, 2.73 [95% CI, 2.32-3.18]), plan (40.8% [95% CI, 35.8%-45.8%]; RR, 2.85 [95% CI, 2.34-3.42]), or attempt (31.9% [95% CI, 27.7%-36.0%]; RR, 4.28 [95% CI, 3.34-5.35]) suicide than heterosexuals.

Differences persisted after stratifying by sex. Of lesbians, 40% (95% CI, 28.1%-52.2%) considered suicide vs 19.6% (95% CI, 17.7-21.6) of heterosexual females, and, of gay males, 25.5% (95% CI, 14.8%-36.1%) considered suicide vs 10.6% of heterosexual males [95% CI, 9.6%-11.7%]). Furthermore, the pattern held after controlling for confounders. For example, bisexual males (RR, 4.44 [95% CI, 2.88-6.15]) and bisexual females (RR, 2.27 [95% CI, 1.91-2.67]) were more likely to consider suicide than their heterosexual peers.

# ¿ Apr 28, 2022 22:56

Jaxyon: Mar 7, 2016; Can't post for 25 hours!

Dr. Stab posted:

Whether you have XX or XY chromosomes doesn't make difference after birth. They define whether the body develops testes or ovaries, and all of the other code for sex differentiation is activated by estrogen and androgen exposure and exists in other parts of the genome.

It should be pointed out that sex is very much not a binary and it's entirely possible for you to be XX and present as a male with a fully functioning male biology. Sex is a spectrum just as gender is.

Dog King posted:

The LGBT+ issue that interests me the most is the medical/biological technology of gender confirmation. This is because I'd probably be trans if the technology was better,

This struck me as odd. I'm not going to tell you whether you are transgender or not, but it's worth mentioning that there are many people who are transgender but who do not undergo any affirming medical treatments, for a variety of reasons. Affirmation tech shouldn't necessarily affect whether or not you a transgender. If you are you are.

# ¿ Apr 29, 2022 21:05

Jaxyon: Mar 7, 2016; Can't post for 25 hours!

Dog King posted:

So as far as I know, whether you're trans is defined by whether you identify as a different gender than the one you were assigned at birth. I don't now, and would under different circumstances. Therefore I'm not trans, but would be.

Cool, like I said I'm not here to tell you what you are or aren't, just wanted to add that info.

# ¿ Apr 29, 2022 21:19

Jaxyon: Mar 7, 2016; Can't post for 25 hours!

Crosspost form USPOL but right wingers/bigots have used the Texas school shooting to further target transgender women and specifically are using someone from reddit.

CW: Right wing transphobia/lies

https://twitter.com/MattBinder/status/1529244568805416960

# ¿ May 25, 2022 18:54

Jaxyon: Mar 7, 2016; Can't post for 25 hours!

some plague rats posted:

Yeah that shits insane but it was covered in USCE, which seems like a good place to just drop a link and dip out like that. this thread was having some interesting longer-form discussions and at least personally I could do with an an LGBTQ thread somewhere on the forum that isn't just an RSS feed of lovely things that happened to a trans person today

Fair enough, I won't do that here any further.

# ¿ May 26, 2022 05:11

Jaxyon: Mar 7, 2016; Can't post for 25 hours!

By that standard I guess covid is a gay STI

# ¿ Jul 26, 2022 01:16

Jaxyon: Mar 7, 2016; Can't post for 25 hours!

Cumdog Millionaire posted:

Ok, I just woke up and I already got banned from a stream I enjoy for having this exact discussion:

What the hell is going on with the CDC and what is with them singling out gay people and monkey pox?
All I want to know are where are the actual peer reviewed studies for these claims and why would it matter if LGBTQ people spread it as well? I don't understand. I'm bi and obviously this effects me, but, I don't understand what everyone is getting at. I have seen absolutely no information that says that LBTQ people are more likely to spread monkeypox. I saw one study that said that because LGBTQ people are more likely to have multiple sexual partners then that means LGBTQ people are more likely to spread monkey pox but that isn't inherently because LGBTQ have same sex more often than not and it isn't directly connected to that, but, that's how the CDC is making it seem.

What the hell is going on?

CDC has failed to account for social prejudices in the way they've been messaging on monkey pox. It's a bad case of "saying things that are factually supported but in a way that will be used to further harm a marginalized and oppressed group".

The failure is clear because there are multiple mainstream news outlets including the AP running with it as a "gay STD" when it most definitely is not at all that.

# ¿ Jul 27, 2022 18:54

Jaxyon: Mar 7, 2016; Can't post for 25 hours!

By making it strongly identified as a "gay STD" it's going to actually hurt treatment because the many, many homophobes and closeted people will refuse treatment or even diagnosis and further infect people by ignoring it.

So this messaging failure will likely contribute to spread.

This is already an issue of closeted/"DL" bisexual men as far as HIV transmission.

# ¿ Jul 27, 2022 22:41

Jaxyon: Mar 7, 2016; Can't post for 25 hours!

thrashingteeth posted:

Her specific one is the first, that if children exhibit anything that's not in line "with their sex" the state and the left will take them away to their gender camps and forcibly given them GENDERPILLS TM.
I think this is the most common among the Brit TERFs.

Yes I've seen JKR specifically repeat this one as far as "tomboys getting forcibly transed".

# ¿ Aug 16, 2022 18:54

Jaxyon: Mar 7, 2016; Can't post for 25 hours!

OwlFancier posted:

By ignoring the latter I would expect. It is much easier to feel like you are right if you simply ignore anything that suggests you aren't.

The trans activists have bullied the NHS into greasing the pipelines because they're terrified of reprisals for being insufficiently woke.

# ¿ Aug 16, 2022 19:17

Jaxyon: Mar 7, 2016; Can't post for 25 hours!

wizzardstaff posted:

They also believe that trans women are completely uninterested in each other, which uhhh... lol

I feel like they're basically uninterested in any real aspect of any transgender person's life.

Their positions are based fully in their own personal fears, discomfort, and feelings and how it affects them personally. Very similar to abortion.

# ¿ Aug 17, 2022 20:39

Jaxyon: Mar 7, 2016; Can't post for 25 hours!

Great post, especially regarding trying to coopt leftist messaging.

That's the core tactic of TERFs. If you disagree, you're a misogynist or sexist.

# ¿ Aug 17, 2022 21:37

Jaxyon: Mar 7, 2016; Can't post for 25 hours!

Yes. If it were a cisgender woman with extremely large surgically enhanced breasts it wouldn't have legs as a story.

It's about shaming a transgender woman for anything besides what they should be (workshop safety)

# ¿ Sep 22, 2022 18:54

Jaxyon: Mar 7, 2016; Can't post for 25 hours!

also it's important to note that a lot of people aren't blatant obvious bigots, they're bigots who don't think of themselves as bigots

hence: "I support transgender people i just don't think you should be grooming children for pedophilia and forcing operations on schoolkids and dominating every single sport"

it's basically "I'm not a racist but I wish black people wouldn't be so fleet of foot and criminal".

# ¿ Oct 19, 2022 18:56

Jaxyon: Mar 7, 2016; Can't post for 25 hours!

cat botherer posted:

On the bright side, even with our current hosed-apart courts, that is unenforceable.

The goal is fear and hesitation, it doesn't need to be technically enforceable.

# ¿ Jan 18, 2023 20:10

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ¿ May 11, 2024 14:57

Jaxyon: Mar 7, 2016; Can't post for 25 hours!

killer_robot posted:

Ahahahahaha, Jesus christ.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/c...0512e3f423&ei=8

AFlorida Republican introduced a bill that would make it easier for religious people to sue those who call them out as homophobic or transphobic, a bill built on a suggestion from Gov. Ron DeSantis (R).

The bill's author made sure everyone understood that it's not just about journalists, it's about everyone, even on social media.

State Rep. Alex Andrade (R) filed H.B. 991 on Tuesday. The bill would make it easier to sue journalists, publications, or social media users for defamation if they accuse someone of racism, sexism, homophobia, or transphobia. The bill specifically says that publications can�t use truth as a defense when it comes to reporting on people�s anti-LGBTQ+ sentiments by citing the person�s �constitutionally protected religious expression or beliefs� or �a plaintiff�s scientific beliefs.�

---

The bill makes several changes to how defamation lawsuits work to make it easier for someone to win a lawsuit if they are accused of discriminatory statements or actions. Under current law, someone suing for defamation has to prove that the defamation hurt their reputation, but H.B. 991 would make it so that statements �that the plaintiff has discriminated against another person or group because of their race, sex, sexual orientation, or gender identity constitutes defamation per se.�

If the bill actually made it sounds like it would be easy to lock up Republicans in endless lawsuits.

# ¿ Mar 16, 2023 06:06

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > The LGBTQIA+ Thread: I don't watch MMA, I just wanna be pretty