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Jedit
Dec 10, 2011

Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

The scene where Strange fights his counterpart with them using the movie's musical score as a weapon is one of the most fun and imaginative sequences I've seen in any movie recently, let alone a Marvel joint.

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Jedit
Dec 10, 2011

Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

Bottom Liner posted:

back to Strange chat, what's the general consensus on Wanda actually being dead? I feel like there's no good answer there and they dug a hole that either cheapens the ending of this movie if she's not dead or cheapens the entire character arc if she is. . I've already seen people say "well they can just fix it with the multi-verse" but that's such a slippery slope of making nothing matter and removing any stakes ever (even beyond normal super hero stuff).

We saw a scarlet flash as Mount Wundagore collapsed, which could have been Wanda escaping with her powers. I imagine they've deliberately left it ambiguous - Elizabeth Olsen has now done five movies, a cameo and a TV series so depending how they add things up she may be at the end of the usual Marvel seven-production contract. "We'd like you back, but we can leave you dead" is a negotiating position.

Jedit
Dec 10, 2011

Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

live with fruit posted:

Marvel doesn't have anything lined up after The Marvels next summer and F4 is still listed as Phase 4. Add in Watts stepping down a couple weeks ago and maybe the writing's on the wall actually.

Removing the spoiler because there are no spoilers in this.

Blade is still TBA but given Marvel's preferred release cycle of February/April-May/July/November is probably February 2024, so after The Marvels. F4 was stated in Marvel's Phase 4 reveal to be the capstone movie; every capstone movie plus Infinity War was released in the April-May window, so that's consistent too. We haven't heard anything about movies after F4 because Marvel aren't releasing details on Phase 5 yet and will not do so until all the Phase 4 release dates are set in stone.

Jedit
Dec 10, 2011

Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

precision posted:

surprised nobody has mentioned all the Darkman references, which was a tiny bit surprising to me

What Darkman references?

Jedit
Dec 10, 2011

Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

Ravel posted:

There are now at least five properties that deal with MCU alternate realities that don't have anything to do with each other. The events of Loki, Spider-Man, Wandavision, What If...?, and Dr Strange all deal with alternate realities, but for some reason it's a coincidence. There was a plausible inciting incident that The Ancient One suggests (alternate realities as a side effect of time travel and/or the destruction of the infinity stones) but Loki explicitly rejects that.

The Loki in Loki is any arbitrary Loki that made a decision that was contrary to whatever he was meant to do (the Avengers were meant to time travel and Loki was meant to steal the Tesseract - but he just wasn't meant to go to Mongolia I guess). What makes his Loki unique is everything he does during the show. The circumstances of his creation are not special - there are countless alternate Lokis. Wandavision resolves the alternate reality as being created by Wanda out of grief, and What If...? starts from the premise that the alternate realities always existed. None of those shows had to do it that way - they could have all been related to Endgame.


Wandavision doesn't deal with an alternate reality in the multiverse; it's all Wanda altering the standard reality.

And I don't think the Ancient One's explanation of the multiverse in Endgame is right. She explains it as a series of branches from a core, with each branch starting where a change was made to the timeline. But that's just a representation, and it's the only time we see that theory expounded. When we see someone actually manipulating the multiverse, it's a series of connected parallel universes that are all complete in their own right. So when something like the Tesseract being stolen causes a divergent universe, that universe doesn't just exist from the point where the divergence occurred - it always existed. Which means that if you start in 616 and steal the Tesseract yourself to create universe 617, then travel back in time to a point before when you stole it, you don't return to 616; you return to that point in 617. It will be indistinguishable from 616 because the changes you made don't alter the past, but it still won't be 616. The only way to return to 616 would be to travel to the exact point where you stole the Tesseract and either return it or stop yourself stealing it, as Steve does at the end of Endgame.

Incidentally, this is also why America's power is so important to both alt-Strange and Wanda. America can break that rule by creating new connections between universes, even ones that would normally never touch.

Jedit
Dec 10, 2011

Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

Vilgefartz posted:

I'm sure i'm the first person to say this...

Is there a universe where this movie wasnt hot garbage

Yes, you are the first person to say that, and you know it.

Jedit
Dec 10, 2011

Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

Rarity posted:

Strange should have the Time Stone back though because Steve gave it back to the Ancient One after the events of Endgame

No, that just means Strange had it to give to Thanos. It was still destroyed after the Snap.

Jedit
Dec 10, 2011

Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

bushisms.txt posted:

Pretty much, everyone saw the scarjo fiasco and redeal.

This, but Natalie Portman. Olsen's saying that she won't come back just to be Wanda Maximoff, Lightshow Girl when she can get a challenging role, but if they change it up and give her some growth she'll do it.

Jedit
Dec 10, 2011

Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

Admiralty Flag posted:


Also, Dr. Doom mixes technical skill with magic and is considered world-class in both.

Doom is probably the preeminent intellectual of the Marvel Universe. He might not be quite the scientist Reed Richards is but he's very close. He's an expert magician, only slightly behind Strange. And on top of that he's a statesman in a way that neither of them could be. He's the compleat Renaissance man, and the only things holding him back are his hubris and his resentment of Richards.

Jedit
Dec 10, 2011

Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

precision posted:

the MCU is big enough that i feel like double and triple casting is an inevitablity, much like Law and Order

What they need to do is cast Ioan Gruffudd and Michael Chiklis in prominent MCU roles.

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Jedit
Dec 10, 2011

Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

Karloff posted:

I absolutely love The Raid 2 and love how they did a 180 from the first film and made an epic sweep of a film instead of the first's tightness.

Then you'll love to hear that The Raid 2 was meant to be the first movie, but because of its scale they decided they'd have to make a smaller picture first.

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