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Captain_Maclaine
Sep 30, 2001

Every moment that I'm alive, I pray for death!

Xiahou Dun posted:

My actual guess is he has ties that are already knotted and then tightens/straightens them. I’m miles from a tie-expert but he basically has the same thing you’d do to your 7 year old cousin for a wedding.

He uses scotch tape to keep them together.

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Captain_Maclaine
Sep 30, 2001

Every moment that I'm alive, I pray for death!

Angry_Ed posted:

Yeah I was going to say what's to prevent him from just pleading the Fifth on everything?

Mainly his inability to not posture, brag, and whine at every conceivable opportunity.

Captain_Maclaine
Sep 30, 2001

Every moment that I'm alive, I pray for death!

Murgos posted:

I was in my early teens during the Iran-Contra hearings and all I really have left of it are vague impressions. But I’m pretty sure it was quite clear that North had committed serious crimes and I was very confused when he ended up with a popular radio show.

It was exceptionally clear at the time North was dead guilty of everything he got convicted of, and wound up where he did in the depressingly regular fashion for tarnished rightwingers: he wrapped himself in the flag and bleated endlessly about just how much he loved America and how it broke his heart that hippie losers like Clinton were robbing white Americans of their birthright etc etc.

Captain_Maclaine fucked around with this message at 17:37 on Aug 10, 2022

Captain_Maclaine
Sep 30, 2001

Every moment that I'm alive, I pray for death!
I spent a week working at the Nixon library in Yorba Linda* a few years ago, and the process is much as has been described by others. The public-facing part which any yahoo off the street can just wander into is basically a museum about the man and his career, while I and other researchers had a separate reading room to work in. They have a system of finding aids so you get an overview of the material before filling out pull requests which the archivists bring out for you at certain points throughout the day. I had to make arrangements with them beforehand but it was pretty straightforward, and some documents were technically still sensitive enough that I wasn't allowed to photograph them (though I could view and copy out to my heart's content), or had to put this little disclaimer card on top of them before taking a photo who's purpose I no longer remember.

*Each day I drove past a sign for the Water District HQ, the significance of which other ancient goons like me will immediately recognize.

Captain_Maclaine
Sep 30, 2001

Every moment that I'm alive, I pray for death!

Madkal posted:

Do higher up Repubs hate true believers as much as everyone else?

I don't think anyone actually likes M:TG or Boebert or Gaetz. Even people who vote for them do so because they relish the pain they intend to inflict, not because of any affection or connection with those glassy-eyed psychopaths.

Captain_Maclaine
Sep 30, 2001

Every moment that I'm alive, I pray for death!
Lol, loving Rand Paul.

1. Wilson didn't enact conscription because people refused to volunteer; he did so because he wanted to avoid what had happened to the British Pals and, in an earlier war, the horde of volunteers north and south during the civil war. In both instances, uncontrolled local enlistment led to all the young men from localities ending up in the same regiments, and thus after a particularly nasty battle (say, Passchendaele or Antietam, respectively) entire towns would find themselves having lost a generation of their youth. Conscription allowed for federal control over recruiting, which avoided this problem and streamlined the entire process (at least in principle).

2. If reincarnated today, the White Rose would stand against everything the GOP champions, and Paul would be among the loudest voices calling for them to be labelled domestic terrorists.

Captain_Maclaine
Sep 30, 2001

Every moment that I'm alive, I pray for death!

Eric Cantonese posted:

https://dailyhistory.org/Did_Woodrow_Wilson_state_that_the_film_The_Birth_of_Nation_was_%22like_writing_history_with_lightning%27

I don't know if anyone could confirm the statement, but he reportedly liked the movie.

I don't think he was actually part of the KKK, but he was an incredible racist and did his part to try to roll back the vestiges of Reconstruction-era progress that still remained when he was president.

https://www.history.com/news/woodrow-wilson-racial-segregation-jim-crow-ku-klux-klan

The screening and his reaction are currently disputed among historians. That Wilson watched the movie in the White House is not in doubt, but the "history writ with lightening" quote was more than likely fabricated after the fact to puff up the general release of the film by Thomas Dixon, the author of the book from which the screen adaptation was taken.

Don't get me wrong Wilson was a huge bag of poo poo in a million ways, but this one thing he likely did not actually say.

VitalSigns posted:

Nah.

Look up his response to colonized nations asking if self-determination and democracy applied to them

Some toady: "Mr. President, there's someone on your list of meetings for today calling himself 'Nguyen the Patriot,' from the Indochinese Patriotic Front, how do you want to handle it?"

Wilson: "Enh, it's late, tell him to gently caress off. Don't have time for anyone as inconsequential and certainly not destined to lead several successful anti-colonial wars in the future as that!"

Captain_Maclaine
Sep 30, 2001

Every moment that I'm alive, I pray for death!

DJ_Mindboggler posted:

It's also kind of unfair to paint America as entirely neutral in WWI prior to its entry. Sales of supplies/materiel were always greater with the Entente than the Alliance powers, and from what I can recall more stringent neutrality restrictions were put on German shipping than British shipping in American ports. Public sentiment was always consistently more pro-UK/France than pro-Germany (albeit with a sizable contingent of neutrals), so in a democratic country I would expect that sort of public sentiment-mirroring hypocrisy.

This only really gets true after 1915ish, and not just because of the Lusitania incident (though that played a part). Early on there was strong pro-German element in America, and not just those of Germanic/Nordic descent; the Irish diaspora also, for entirely justifiable reasons, saw the British as a pack of bastards who could all go to hell. As late as 1916 Germany was able to exploit this by actually sending a long-range cargo submarine, the Deutschland, on two blockade runs to America to buy war supplies, docking I wanna say in Baltimore both times, and to generally positive reception nationally and locally as the British blockade giving the Germans the chance to play underdogs to American national sentiment.

EDIT: Oh poo poo, new thread on the topic!

Captain_Maclaine fucked around with this message at 21:50 on Aug 17, 2022

Captain_Maclaine
Sep 30, 2001

Every moment that I'm alive, I pray for death!

Cimber posted:

I wonder what would happen if someone tried to compare White Rose with BLM and see what Paul has to say about that.

He's very slightly more subtle than his father, so he probably wouldn't immediately start dogwhistling about the fleet-footed youths. Probably.

Captain_Maclaine
Sep 30, 2001

Every moment that I'm alive, I pray for death!

Cimber posted:

Even if his indicted he can still run for President, and he would. The rallying cry of 'the deep state is out to get me! Protect me' will cause all his frothing minions to go into a frenzy. I would also expect to see an uptick of political violence.

This is going to happen regardless of what the J6 committee and DOJ do or don't do, at this point.

quote:

If he wins the presidency the charges go away as soon as he takes office.

If he loses the amount of political violence would greatly increase as his frothing minions would see it as a sign that the 'deep state stole the election'.

The only way we are 'safe' is if he's convicted and sentenced before Jan 20th 2025. I don't see that happening. I think we are in for a bad 6+ years.

I agree. We are likely going to be dealing with politicized violence on a non-trivial scale for years to come, escalating around elections (if those remain a thing). While they're not perfect analogies, what Dick Schumann and James Diehl describe in Political Violence in the Weimar Republic and Paramilitary Politics in Weimar Germany both are good primers for how this sort of thing can play out.

Captain_Maclaine
Sep 30, 2001

Every moment that I'm alive, I pray for death!

Eric Cantonese posted:

I've always wondered whether the anchors are all true believers. I have no doubts about the likes of Hannity and Carlson, but are people like Harris Faulkner and Kennedy also that nuts? S.E. Cupp and Alisyn Camerota left and seem much happier in their new gigs. If you somehow bought the network and very obviously changed the editorial slant, how many of them would leave and how many of them would just roll with it to keep collecting a nice paycheck?

I'm not sure that Carlson is a genuine true believer, largely as I have a hard time believing Carlson has any principles at all other than crass self promotion/enrichment and the infliction of cruelty. The GOP as it exists right now allows him to fulfill both those existential desires, but if they started failing to due so substantially I could see him turning on them/jumping ship (if the money was also good enough).

Captain_Maclaine
Sep 30, 2001

Every moment that I'm alive, I pray for death!

Dapper_Swindler posted:

i think much like trump he believes his own bullshit to a degree because of spite/bigotry/insecurity and the rest is a mix of grift. also just being an incurious douche.

I think that's a difference of degree between the two, as with Trump it's clear he wholeheartedly believes whatever he's saying for as long as he's saying it, then either maintains that belief or entirely rejects every having said/believed it as is convenient to the moment while simultaneously doublethinking himself into genuinely believing he never deviated from whatever the current moment requires, whereas Tucker is just barely sentient enough to feel a twinge from the desiccated husk that once was his conscience that signals what for non-psychopaths often grows into cognitive dissonance; you can see this from time to time when his makes that "uh oh, that fart might've just called for backup" face of his when one of his interviews goes sideways on him.

Captain_Maclaine
Sep 30, 2001

Every moment that I'm alive, I pray for death!
Or that time a chud suddenly realized Social D has social and political commentary in their music, got mouthy about it, and then Mike Ness jumped off stage and hosed his poo poo up.

Captain_Maclaine
Sep 30, 2001

Every moment that I'm alive, I pray for death!

Automatic Slim posted:

Hard truth to swallow but it seems to be true. Our generational compatriots seem to be voting candidates with views to the right.

Rock the Vote everybody.

Another Gen-Xer here. For every cool kid I grew up with who just wanted to be accepting and chill out listening to Soundgarden there were at least three (usually violently homophobic) proto-chuds who I've no doubt absorbed all the bullshit our boomer parents were spewing, either sincerely or from the laughably mistaken belief that that would make our elders open the door for comparable prosperity in the future.

Captain_Maclaine
Sep 30, 2001

Every moment that I'm alive, I pray for death!

BiggerBoat posted:

Just worth pointing out I think that Laura Loomer is claiming voter fraud in her won loving primary. Is every Republican that loses any election going to automatically claim this bullshit moving forward? No matter who they're running against?

Why wouldn't they at this point?

Captain_Maclaine
Sep 30, 2001

Every moment that I'm alive, I pray for death!

Killer robot posted:

Boomers are nuclear subs. Guessing divers but a typo?

Specifically, ballistic missile subs (as opposed to attack boats).

Captain_Maclaine
Sep 30, 2001

Every moment that I'm alive, I pray for death!

StumblyWumbly posted:

Flynn and Nixon were pardoned before they were convicted. It's often seen as admission of guilt, but I think a recent SCOTUS case made that not legally true.

I thought Flynn had plead guilty prior to being pardoned, then tried to walk that back and change his plea after being convicted somehow but it all came out in the wash after Trump pardoned him?

Captain_Maclaine
Sep 30, 2001

Every moment that I'm alive, I pray for death!

PhantomOfTheCopier posted:

Republicans in general will start up a scorched earth policy and one half of every branch of government will primarily switch to criminal activities to get what they want. With all the overwhelming evidence, if they can't make it stick then there's nothing "legal" at the federal level anymore.

To be honest, I don't see a path forward where this doesn't happen regardless of the outcome, at least in the short-medium term. Trump and co. have already gotten away with so much and reaped such apparent benefits from doing so that there's no real reason for future rightists not to try, plus their violence and force-obsessed mindset already predispose them to just smash poo poo and take what they want, metaphorically and also literally.


Umbra Dubium posted:

Twelve former presidents from around the world.

Credit where credit is due, I would never have though Jimmy Carter's vengeance would be this long coming, or so carefully planned out.

Captain_Maclaine
Sep 30, 2001

Every moment that I'm alive, I pray for death!
As early as 1804 federal judge John Pickering, who was widely known to be both severely mentally ill and also an alcoholic (likely self-medicating to deal with the mental illness), was successfully impeached and removed from office. This made the Marshall court in particular nervous (though all agreed Pickering was utterly unsuited to stay on the bench and needed to go) as they also saw this (rightly) as an effort by Jefferson to remove Federalists from the bench whenever given an excuse so to do, and also impeachment as defined in the constitution was supposed to be reserved for specific crimes, to which being drunk and insane did not rise.

Captain_Maclaine
Sep 30, 2001

Every moment that I'm alive, I pray for death!

alf_pogs posted:

potentially marching, probably lurching

And wheezing. Definitely wheezing.

mobby_6kl posted:

Trump posted his official response letter to the Unselect committee: https://cdn.nucleusfiles.com/27/27b...123&_nhids=TEST

It's... pretty :lmao:

Back in the runup to 2016, we had a game we used to play called "Trump or crackhead?" This definitely qualifies.

Captain_Maclaine
Sep 30, 2001

Every moment that I'm alive, I pray for death!
There is precisely zero chance any live testimony from Trump would not result in him perjuring himself repeatedly, likely within the first semi-coherent run-on sentence he uttered.

Captain_Maclaine
Sep 30, 2001

Every moment that I'm alive, I pray for death!

Mooseontheloose posted:

Mitt agrees with his policies though just not the way they are going about it.

Sure, but Hawley is a supremely unpleasant person and I can only imagine also smells real bad.

Captain_Maclaine
Sep 30, 2001

Every moment that I'm alive, I pray for death!

Judge Schnoopy posted:

Please, any republican caught by the mob could just say "trump is president and I'm helping you get him certified" and join the crowd without harm.

The police handing out high fives were embraced. Those guarding the doors were attacked and killed. The riot was keeping a careful eye out for allies, even if they seemed unpredictable.

A good example is that one black capitol policeman who they tried to win over, only to turn instantly hostile when they learned he was a Biden voter and start hurling racial slurs and abuse at him.

Captain_Maclaine
Sep 30, 2001

Every moment that I'm alive, I pray for death!

Tayter Swift posted:

Socks was well liked enough to get his own goddamn video game.

Rush et al were more concerned with calling a teenaged Chelsea ugly.

Were they ever. You could hear the sadistic glee in their voices every time they got a chance to slag on Chelsea, like just how joyful it was to them to beat up on a young girl.

Captain_Maclaine
Sep 30, 2001

Every moment that I'm alive, I pray for death!

BiggerBoat posted:

Yeah. How dare a 14 year old girl not meet this person's standards?

Then again, I've had it said to me that liberals like myself just can't take a joke.

Ha.

Given what later came out about his Caribbean sex tourism, all the poo poo he had to say about Chelsea took on an extra layer of creepy. Not that it was lacking to begin with, of course.

Captain_Maclaine
Sep 30, 2001

Every moment that I'm alive, I pray for death!

Mooseontheloose posted:

Getting the head of the Oath Keepers seems like a fairly big fish. Am I crazy to think that?

He's a medium-sized fish with sorta-direct connections to the actually big ones. Rhodes going to jail for what he and his lot of goose-stepping bastards did is unambiguously a good thing, of course, but if it stops at his level the top-level conspirators will have skated (and will try it again).

Captain_Maclaine
Sep 30, 2001

Every moment that I'm alive, I pray for death!

Rigel posted:

We have also had federal judges who were raging alcoholics drunk on the bench while hearing cases, and we still don't remove them unless they become a news story.

The first federal judge ever to be impeached fell into this exact category (he was also almost certainly mentally ill and self medicating with booze). Happened in 1804.

Captain_Maclaine
Sep 30, 2001

Every moment that I'm alive, I pray for death!

plogo posted:

I thought they went after him because he was a hardcore partisan federalist (as in the federalist party)?

No, that was the first Supreme Court justice they tried to impeach at about the same time, Samuel Chase. I'm referring to John Pickering, a drunk/insane US district court judge (and also on the NH state Supreme Court, as things were squishier and had fewer rigidly defined boundaries those days). The latter's impeachment was used as precedence for the former, though.

Captain_Maclaine
Sep 30, 2001

Every moment that I'm alive, I pray for death!

Xiahou Dun posted:

I am pretty curious if he actually has something to say or if he just needs attention.

Secretly hoping he takes out a book bound in human flesh and starts a song that will turn the seas red and make the sun blink in shame.

He's not nearly that cool. If he tried he's ruin the incantation through mispronunciation and by pausing repeatedly for multiple-sentence self-serving rants and tangents about how awesome he is and how much the old gods begged him to do this with years in their many eyes, etc.

Captain_Maclaine
Sep 30, 2001

Every moment that I'm alive, I pray for death!

Tiny Timbs posted:

Social media accounts are generally off limits for clearance investigations so they won't Google you. They focus on interviews with friends, families, coworkers, landlords, etc. to identify any potential inconsistencies or red flags in the data you give them in the SF-86. The other part is a credit check and whatever else they have to do to check on things like gambling debts. If you have anything else of relevance you're supposed to bring it up ahead of time, not let them find out about it later.

I briefly held* a clearance back in the mid-2000s so just when social media was getting started, and the process was pretty much as you describe here. Had to submit a list of references for interview along with other information.

*Well, I think I did. The process took longer than the job itself lasted (I was contracting with a big federal agency) and by the time I left it hadn't finished yet.

Captain_Maclaine
Sep 30, 2001

Every moment that I'm alive, I pray for death!

Xiahou Dun posted:

This is making me realize that somewhere in the DoJ, there is probably a spreadsheet of trumpcrimes.xlsm.

I kinda always pictured it as a supply closet door labeled "TRUMP CRIMES," that's so comically overfull that it's bulging against its frame and sheets of paper describing various crimes are already leaking out around the edges.

Captain_Maclaine
Sep 30, 2001

Every moment that I'm alive, I pray for death!
My wife was sleeping in that day, and I remember the first thing I said to her was something to the tune of "good morning, fascists are attempting to storm the capitol building."

Captain_Maclaine
Sep 30, 2001

Every moment that I'm alive, I pray for death!

mdemone posted:

I had classes starting about noon that day and I told them to get out their laptops and work on something useful

while i was :f5: at a rate unknown to mankind

I have no idea how I could have gotten through that day if I'd had to teach while all of that was going down.

Captain_Maclaine
Sep 30, 2001

Every moment that I'm alive, I pray for death!

Killer robot posted:

It seems like a close relative of the good old "the zoomers are totally lost to fascism because youtube" thing, where the fact of some radicals existing defines everyone regardless of how many there are.

Everything has always pointed to Gen X being a transitional generation where its older members are similar to younger boomers and its younger are similar to older millennials. Every generation is like that, because "generations" aren't objectively real and are just a shorthand we use to lump age cohorts based on arbitrary cutoffs.

It shouldn't be really surprising that a disproportionate number of the wilder fascists are younger ones even where the absolute numbers are lower, since boomers are old and tired at this point and not many of them were gonna literally climb walls attacking the Capitol.

This. The only thing that is universal about Gen X is we all bought Nevermind.

Mechanical Ape posted:

Gen X (my generation) was the last to grow up with clear memories of the Cold War and the Reagan era, and all the propaganda of that era is still soaked in to one degree or another. Speaking for myself and my own ideological hangovers, it took a long time for "socialism" to stop being a dirty word, one to associate with Rambo villains and standing in line in the snow for black market blue jeans. Many of my old classmates have gotten over this -- a lot of my high school friends are progressives -- but others haven't at all, they're basically Boomer Lite.

I can report a similar experience. It took a long, long time before I could stop reflexively associating "socialism" with evil, oppression, and failure, because of all the nonsense they force-fed us in school in the 80s.

Captain_Maclaine
Sep 30, 2001

Every moment that I'm alive, I pray for death!

Presto posted:

I'm Gen X. I did not buy Nevermind. Argument destroyed.

Liar.

Captain_Maclaine
Sep 30, 2001

Every moment that I'm alive, I pray for death!

Shooting Blanks posted:

Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely. Giuliani in particular is a weird case - simply by being mayor of NYC when 9/11 happened, he could have retired and gone on the book tour and speaking circuit for the rest of his life.

In retrospect his trainwreck of a primary campaign in 2008 when he still had a bit of the 9/11 shine on him should have forewarned what was coming.

Captain_Maclaine
Sep 30, 2001

Every moment that I'm alive, I pray for death!

selec posted:

It’s really not up to chance. You’re not an outsider if they give you a network TV show and you succeed like crazy with it, and then you become president. There are no good rich people, which means Trump is in fact, “one of them”. He is petulant about doing the things they expect of a guy in that position, but it doesn’t change his essentially untouchable class position. They’re not gonna throw a rich guy into jail, and they’re absolutely not gonna throw a former president into jail. We are not that kind of country, we invade or dominate that kind of country: we see truly, functional equal justice as a third-world characteristic, at best.

He’s gonna die fat and happy in bed. Losing his foundation is like losing a really advantageous contract for him, it sucks, but it’s not like a deep, personality-defining thing for him. That was one more thing the lawyers set up for him for money reasons, one more structure he’s only kinda familiar with but occupies, I’m reckoning, the same mental space as a tax break. A privilege he feels he’s owed but not one that makes or breaks his idea of himself.

The one very minor exception I'm going to take to this is chiefly the opening sentence of your second paragraph. I fundamentally don't think Trump is a happy person anymore. Whatever magic he experienced during the 2016 campaign has long since drained away and it's become undeniably clear he'll never, ever get over losing in 2020. Trump will likely escape serious legal consequence, both criminal and civil, but the thinnest of silver linings may at least be the fact that he hasn't enjoyed a moment of life since leaving office, and likely never will again.

Captain_Maclaine
Sep 30, 2001

Every moment that I'm alive, I pray for death!

Mooseontheloose posted:

It was always Trump and this generation of conservatives key demographic, wealthy, usually uneducated, but not too wealthy. The middle manager, small business tyrants of the world who think that they're smarter than everyone cause they got lucky.

It's not that surprising. The first wave of fascism was also initially a middle-class phenomenon, fueled by insecure small proprietor types terrified of "Judeo-Bolshevism."

Captain_Maclaine
Sep 30, 2001

Every moment that I'm alive, I pray for death!

Murgos posted:

Seems like Pence is going to challenge Jacks subpoena on the grounds that in his role as president of the senate he is immune by reason of the speech and debate clause.

Since he’s was neither a congressman or a senator this seems tenuous. Also, as we’ve seen recently with graham there is already a pretty substantial amount of precedent about what does and does not get covered by that clause so this seems like a fairly low probability play.

Cheney tried an argument along these lines when he was VP as I recall, though I don't remember in regards to what. Basically he tried to dodge some manner of executive oversight by claiming as president of the senate he was actually part of the legislative branch (in that and only that specific instance).

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Captain_Maclaine
Sep 30, 2001

Every moment that I'm alive, I pray for death!

AtraMorS posted:

Now it's an exception, presumably. No VP has ever asserted this kind of protection before, and if it applies to Pence's duties on the 6th, what other of the VP's duties might it apply to in the future? Or the chief justice during impeachment? (Don't know if that one's been tried or not.)

This isn't exactly the first time someone's pulled this stunt. Cheney tried it before during one of the W administration's many clashes with Congress, I wanna say over AGAG's conveniently bad memory?

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