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Killer robot
Sep 6, 2010

I was having the most wonderful dream. I think you were in it!
Pillbug

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

It says in the article that it isn't a ban on nicotine in every product - just tobacco products.

Nicotine has health risks by itself, but the vast majority of health risks from smoking comes from the tobacco and other products.

Gum, patches, and e-cigs won't be required to remove all of their nicotine. Part of the further study and follow-up plan involves people switching to other sources of nicotine. The goal is to make cigarettes essentially non-addictive to prevent people from getting hooked in the future and make people currently addicted to nicotine switch to less deadly options.

Yeah, that's the reason nicotine is a big problem. On its own it's a drug that isn't impairing and only has serious long-term health impact at much higher dosages than anyone uses in practice, so it would be lower impact than almost any other recreational drug. It's just both fantastically addictive and tied to an incredibly harmful delivery method(that got socialized into being cool for kids to take up besides.) If you decouple it from the second, who gives a gently caress if nicotine gum is still around.

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Killer robot
Sep 6, 2010

I was having the most wonderful dream. I think you were in it!
Pillbug

VikingofRock posted:

I'm not optimistic here, because, you know, no one ever went broke betting that the rich and powerful in America would get away with crimes, but there is a pretty big difference here. In the three cases you mentioned, Republicans were needed to do anything. For the Mueller report, Mueller himself was a Republican, as was the head of the DoJ (lBill Barr), and for the two impeachments, 19(-ish) Republican senators were needed for removal from office. With the 1-6 commission, the DoJ could prosecute the case, and no Republicans are needed for that prosecution, aside from maybe those who have already testified against Trump. We'll see if they actually do bring the case, but they could.

Of course, when it becomes time to have the jury vote, I am not hopeful that a Republican jurist won't just blow up the conviction out of party loyalty. So it's probably all a moot point.

Even with the most dead-eyed cynical take, the one thing that will make a rich and powerful person do real time for white-collar crime is defrauding other fellow rich and powerful specifically. By that standard, it's people who knowingly wanted an armed angry mob to come face to face with Congress. As you say, that's no guarantee of any specific level of consequences. It's just that class loyalty is not a strong argument for Trump and his higher ups skating in this case like it would be for him just mismanaging the government and doing lots of fraud for the four years previous.

Killer robot
Sep 6, 2010

I was having the most wonderful dream. I think you were in it!
Pillbug

Timeless Appeal posted:

I think that honestly looking at the demographics of the specific neighborhood are kind of shaky because it was a parade and you have people from all over Chicago attending and also a super-online chud probably has dumbass stereotypes about Chicago. Looking for logic in his choices is folly.

It's a rich suburb 25 miles out of town, and nothing indicated it's some big parade that's a major regional draw. The shooter was a town local though, so it's not like he went shopping for a place to shoot. But with the whole Qanon channer type in a Jewish neighborhood that suggests some possibilities.

Killer robot
Sep 6, 2010

I was having the most wonderful dream. I think you were in it!
Pillbug

Herstory Begins Now posted:

It's weird seeing dems forcing republicans to actually vote on stuff

They started doing that as soon as they took the house in 2019. By the 2020 election I forget how big the stack was of House bills Mitch wouldn't even put on the Senate calendar, even the ones that had bipartisan support in the House, but it was huge.

Killer robot
Sep 6, 2010

I was having the most wonderful dream. I think you were in it!
Pillbug

Velocity Raptor posted:

My take on it is that because the margin for passing this in the senate is so slim, any amendment being added to the bill (widely supported or not) could be enough for someone like Sinema or Manchin to flip the table and not provide the coveted 50th aye.
Remember, all it takes to sink everything is one amendment that turns someone's vote on the final bill from yes to no. Not that turns "democrats" against the bill, that turns one senator. Especially the ones who make a personal brand of not being beholden to the party.

And the votes that pass the amendment can still be people who will vote against the bill, so like one Republican says "Sure, I like that amendment!" then votes down the final bill because some other part of it is super turbo communism.

That's why these amendment fests are such a calculated dance.

Killer robot
Sep 6, 2010

I was having the most wonderful dream. I think you were in it!
Pillbug

Jarmak posted:

The audience is not the diehards, the diehards don't care and never believed it anyway.

The point is the more you force them into more and more insane positions the low-info people who aren't on Twitter start to smell the bullshit that their face is being rubbed in.

It's not some "we got him" moment, it's shaving fractions of percentage points off of soft support and primes people to be more receptive to poo poo like the FBI saying he broke the law.

This is a tactic that right-wing media absolutely loves and has used constantly for decades by the way. Pointing out every seeming bit of hypocrisy and double-think in the left (or among disloyal conservatives), no matter how spurious it may seem. It's not just there to energize the base. It's certainly not there to convince their enemies. It's there to make their enemies look bad in the eyes of of people who aren't full-time political junkies already settled permanently into their loyalties. Make the other guy "that joker" even among people who aren't big fans of your guy either.

It's one of several tactics that has been fantastically successful in hurting the popularity of any remotely left-wing figures or policies.

Killer robot
Sep 6, 2010

I was having the most wonderful dream. I think you were in it!
Pillbug

cr0y posted:

Jesus they aren't loving declassified. The FBI isn't raiding the home of a former president for poo poo that isn't classified or top secret. Don't even bother looking into the declassified argument, it's just not a thing.

Yeah, it's got all the weight of "you know, that fake impeachment means Trump is actually eligible for THREE terms!" memes that went around.

Killer robot
Sep 6, 2010

I was having the most wonderful dream. I think you were in it!
Pillbug

Sephyr posted:

Which can mean anything. I believe my ideology of having a 99% tax rate after US$ 10 million is quite moderate. So does the guy down the street who thinks George Soros is spawning plague immigrant caravan and aiming them as the US of A.

Yeah, I've met both people that say that as a moderate it makes sense to call the ACA communist and people who say that they could stomach "a center right guy like Bernie" in charge and I don't think either really means anything.

Killer robot
Sep 6, 2010

I was having the most wonderful dream. I think you were in it!
Pillbug

GoutPatrol posted:

I think along the line Trump having citizenship in another country would have been an issue before this.

More's the pity, since Trump having been secretly born in Kenya would really complete the perfect projection record we've been seeing.

Killer robot
Sep 6, 2010

I was having the most wonderful dream. I think you were in it!
Pillbug

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

I don't think he meant that communities for children are literally/physically centered around schools. Every country in the world regardless of income or density probably has "family" and "schools" as two of the top 3 places where kids are socialized. And family can only socialize a child so much, because there aren't any peers there. School is very much the largest and most consistent place for socialization of kids in modern society.

Worth adding to this, even if you still feel that dense urban societies have a lot of alternate non-school venues for socialization of children, have I got big news for you about how covid affected them.

I was generally in favor of more school lockdowns over less, but unlike closing Olive Garden that was a choice with actual cost and not all the parents who disagreed were motivated by slavish capitalism.

Killer robot
Sep 6, 2010

I was having the most wonderful dream. I think you were in it!
Pillbug

Hieronymous Alloy posted:

If waiting to do poo poo till right before the election so people remember it all when they're voting wins the election, well, I mean, then he's done good poo poo and maybe won an election also so maybe he can then keep it up

Guess we'll see

After all, the people getting loan forgiveness had those loans paused already while Biden was pushing to get a congressional solution rather than an executive order. When he didn't get the first, he did the second.

Killer robot
Sep 6, 2010

I was having the most wonderful dream. I think you were in it!
Pillbug

Discendo Vox posted:

Lmao, it's referenced as attachment F (It'll be a separate file)- I'd not gotten that far.

edit: I'm a little surprised they argued that last section D in the alternate.

edit 2: oh my god is that a collection of framed magazine covers

He didn't just frame magazine covers he appeared in, he had fake magazine covers made and framed them.

https://twitter.com/SKeelerTimes/status/879819816131080193

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jun/28/time-magazinetrump-fake-covers-golf-clubs

Killer robot
Sep 6, 2010

I was having the most wonderful dream. I think you were in it!
Pillbug

Srice posted:

It's as good as expected. And a good companion piece to it is The Clothes Have No Emperor by Paul Slansky which is a must read for anyone that thinks Trump is some unique evil. It's full of anecdotes that could be easily mistaken for Trump administration anecdotes if the names were changed.

One of my favorites is Reagan giving a speech about how a blind man begged him to help save the American people by getting rid of pensions.

This is what I told myself paging through it now and then during the first couple years of the Trump era, though as time went on and the wheels started to come off it got harder and harder to believe. Still, a good light into what a clown show it was then too.

Killer robot
Sep 6, 2010

I was having the most wonderful dream. I think you were in it!
Pillbug

Judgy Fucker posted:

I hope you're right, but don't think you are. I think you greatly underestimate the average American's appetite for the pomp and ritual of the British Royals, and corporate media will be more than happy to dish out this pre-fab slop to us for as long as we can collectively stomach it.

The exact same logic of all the free press they gave Trump: people want to watch it, they have to spend close to zero dollars to air it, it's a license for them to just print money.

I think it's been 20+ years since the average American had more appetite for news of the entire British royal family collectively than they do for a single A-list American celebrity. Which is a lot to be fair, but it's not going to be driving enough coverage to crowd major stories out apart from like today and maybe the day of the funeral.

Killer robot
Sep 6, 2010

I was having the most wonderful dream. I think you were in it!
Pillbug

mawarannahr posted:

Incidentally the lightweight text edition of CNN is a bit nicer to browse. https://lite.cnn.com/en

Here are all the stories that appear on my mobile screen without scrolling:

There are 12, half of which are Queen stuff.

Looks like even on the day of death the Queen is only beating Trump 6 to 5. If he'd been charged or something today the news sites would have been "Queen who?"

Killer robot
Sep 6, 2010

I was having the most wonderful dream. I think you were in it!
Pillbug

Sodomy Hussein posted:

As crazy as this sounds, Obama's opponents were weaker.

Right, the primary miscalculation of 2016 was assuming that Trump was a weak candidate. Everyone who laughed at him through the primaries, sure he would flame out, made that miscalculation. Everyone who figured Clinton had it in the bag for the general, because lol Trump, made that miscalculation. Even at the time it was obvious from the day he came down the escalator that he was the primary front runner, and as it went along that he tapped a vein of the Republican id and that other Republicans would fall in line once he was clearly on top. That made his victory possible (though not invevitable) with a lot of scary consequences if he did. The free media boosting actually helping him more than it hurt was obvious at the time too, if you really paid attention.

I'm not gonna say I knew better. I figured Trump for a likely nominee from the start, but I was too optimistic about the general and figured it would be somewhat between a comfortable Clinton win and an uncomfortable Clinton win, especially with how the polling was. The loss caught me off guard.

Anyone after the fact who said, or still says, "Haha, Clinton couldn't even beat Trump, how would she have done against a competent Republican?" falls for the same trap as the people who were sure he was going to lose beforehand, even if she genuinely had weaknesses her supporters overlooked. But far stupider, since they're willfully ignoring Trump's obvious strengths in hindsight just to get a dunk in.

Killer robot
Sep 6, 2010

I was having the most wonderful dream. I think you were in it!
Pillbug

Keyser_Soze posted:

It could be said that the Anti-Hillary "Stay Home Don't Vote!" "pretend Bernie Bro's for TRUMP!!!" people and bots wouldn't have been as successful against Sleepy Joe.

Some of them used Biden as a tool as it was. In the post-primary/pre-convention phase when "Here's how Bernie could still be the nominee!" was fashionable, there was a lot of "I mean, if you don't want Bernie couldn't we at leave have gotten Biden?" grousing.

If nothing else, it was a way to tell that someone's problems with Clinton had nothing to do with her centrist policies, friendliness to big business, or votes on the Iraq invasion.

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Killer robot
Sep 6, 2010

I was having the most wonderful dream. I think you were in it!
Pillbug

Quixotic1 posted:

Don't most printers now print, invisible to the naked eye, dots that translate on what printer it was printed on so that it can be traced by law enforcement?

Color laser printers and copiers, yes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machine_Identification_Code

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