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Fritz the Horse
Dec 26, 2019

... of course!

Grouchio posted:

On account of my mental health and/or blood pressure, can I just ignore whatever poo poo's spewed out of Texas for the rest of the year? I have a feeling this will bite Texan Chuds later.

yes, you have permission to not bury yourself in anxiety spirals over all the bad poo poo:

AtomikKrab posted:

Remember everyone to make time for self care and relaxation, too much politics is not good for your health.

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Fritz the Horse
Dec 26, 2019

... of course!

Craig K posted:

I did not realize that these were online, and i am getting bigtime "Pawnee citizens at Town Hall" vibes

e: also, randomly clicking, i've already found four "i am a tobacco retailer that is strongly opposed to this ban because I will make less money because this is a governmental intrusion on personal freedoms" so far

big yikes, also lmao:

quote:

do not take another choice of Americans away, many people of all colors races chose menthol, people have free will, they know the risks, if you ban menthol cigs, you have to ban all cigs........leave us alone ,let us make our own choices, decisions, stop using race to push this threw, class actions suits to follow of course for the gov violating our freedoms , stop regulating our choices, your not my mamma or daddy, and no i am not black, it affects all races free choices

Was the first one I clicked.

Fritz the Horse
Dec 26, 2019

... of course!
If Trump is still alive and marginally functional in 2024 he's either going to run for President or they're going to have to find some way to appease his ego which, good luck. It's pretty clear what he actually wants to do is travel around holding rallies and also internationally being fawned over by world leaders. He could kinda do that as VP but I doubt he'd accept as that is explicitly a subordinate position to POTUS.

IMO the strongest GOP ticket in 2024 would be DeSantis/Noem with Trump throwing his support behind them. Both DeSantis and Noem can sound "reasonable" and could be effective at unifying the Trump-loving base and the smaller number of older-school business Republicans and donors who have broken with Trump. I dunno how they thread the needle on having Donnie's support while giving him some kind of position that would satisfy his ego.

Fritz the Horse
Dec 26, 2019

... of course!

projecthalaxy posted:

I know its even lower than VP but that kinda sounds like what Sec State or UN Envoy does?

Yeah that crossed my mind too. I mean, it's all speculation, maybe making him "Special America First Envoy" and Sec of State where Trump just gets to travel around giving rallies and meeting with foreign heads of state would be sufficient? While DeSantis constantly praises and gives lip service to deferring to Trump's America First agenda?

Srice posted:

He wouldn't get mad about CNN/MSNBC/etc the same way Trump does so if nothing else there'd be far less pushback from those outlets. He'd do the same heinous poo poo but in a "respectable" way.

Right, which is why I threw Noem in there as a "good" VP pick for DeSantis. They both can sound pretty reasonable. IMO Noem is a particular threat to trans rights and culture war issues, she's been a big "womens' rights" anti-trans sports politician and anti-CRT stuff too. Mind you, this is pretty close to a nightmare scenario, but I think they could use Noem to help push a "feminist/pro-women/anti-grooming" culture war agenda.

Fritz the Horse
Dec 26, 2019

... of course!

Push El Burrito posted:

But they also get heat vision as a trade off.

let's not, thanks

Fritz the Horse
Dec 26, 2019

... of course!
Discendo Vox provided an argument for why mentioning China or Russia would be directly relevant (they are the main sources of drugs repackaged as supplements). The framing of his suggestion for talking to Republicans is to push "made in America" in contrast to foreign drugs, which is a nationalistic sentiment. If you have a GOP representative and don't want to use that approach, don't.

Fritz the Horse
Dec 26, 2019

... of course!
:siren: Do not direct your frustration and anger at Roe being overturned toward other posters. This is not helpful, not interesting discussion, gums up threads, and will catch you probations for posting about posters / hostility.

No person here bears significant responsibility and going after each other is just going to result in slapfights which contribute nothing of interest to threads.

That's my ruling on the field for now to try and keep things civil within the thread, I know people are going to want to vent. Koos Group may have further comments.

Fritz the Horse
Dec 26, 2019

... of course!
TIL many/most indigenous women already couldn't access abortion because IHS is subject to the Hyde amendment. So that's cool.

Fritz the Horse
Dec 26, 2019

... of course!
if you can't post without lovely sniping at each other, consider taking the night off.

Fritz the Horse
Dec 26, 2019

... of course!
idk that arguing hypothetical alternate histories is terribly productive

Fritz the Horse
Dec 26, 2019

... of course!

Grouchio posted:

Wait a second - these threads have all been in chorus about the impending destruction of american democracy ever since Trump took power (and before). Has much changed in that regard pre vs post-overturn?

And should that mean that I have no choice but to dictate my future as one of doom? I've had a burden complex for the longest time.

We're not doing that thing where you pose a series of questions to the thread seeking to assuage your anxiety. Yes, there's lots of good reasons to be anxious right now, but Grouchio-- please just take a break.

Fritz the Horse
Dec 26, 2019

... of course!

theCalamity posted:

I would call it horrendous, especially when somewhere like China (4 per million) and Vietnam (811 per million) have drastically less COVID deaths. Let's not forget that a lot of Democrats were itching to open back up as soon as the vaccines dropped and stayed open while Omicron and Delta killed a bunch of people.

This line of discussion was comparing blue states to red states in the US, specifically California to Idaho.

Fritz the Horse
Dec 26, 2019

... of course!

Fister Roboto posted:

No, it's fair. 2 year olds definitely shouldn't be posting here.

Keep it on topic. Thank you.

Fritz the Horse
Dec 26, 2019

... of course!
:sweep:

Epic High Five posted:

I think it's about time this whole thing got moved to the thread dedicated to the midterms and electoralism generally: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=4002330. Maybe some progress can be made on the debate with a little more focus.

Also please refrain from attacking posters directly, if I see any more of it and have to wake my dog up to move rooms to hit they're going to start at 18 hours as compensation to elderly terriers.

Fritz the Horse
Dec 26, 2019

... of course!
Just a reminder that Koos posted last night to keep discussion of election participation fresh or bring new info. Arguing over whether voting for Dems is pointless vs. the bare minimum civic engagement vs. our only hope etc is a favorite pastime of this thread and has been done pretty exhaustively. Please try and contribute something new or interesting to the discussion if you're going to post about it here. Or if you'd like, you might revive the US Politics and Voting thread from last fall: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3986700

As stated in the rules, this is enforced fairly leniently. But posting slogans, catchphrases, or otherwise low-content stuff doesn't add anything to discussion, especially on such a well-trodden subject.

Fritz the Horse
Dec 26, 2019

... of course!

Cimber posted:

Is a woman who has an ectopic pregnancy really at risk now because of Roe v. Wade, or is that some hysterical fearmongering.

I legit don't know.

IANAL but my understanding is that it depends on the exact wording of states' anti-abortion laws. States that have passed abortion bans that are very restrictive or loosely worded might include ectopic pregnancies. Most states afaik have an "except to preserve the health/life of the mother" clause but who knows if state courts will decide ectopic pregnancies count or not.

My sister is currently trying to conceive and has had two ectopic pregnancies this last year, so this is an issue that hits pretty close to home.

Fritz the Horse
Dec 26, 2019

... of course!

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

The Hobbs ruling lets states regulate abortion however they want. It doesn't establish fetal personhood, and even if it did, a naturally occurring ectopic pregnancy isn't considered manslaughter in any state under even the strictest fetal personhood law. An ectopic pregnancy is also by definition non-viable.

Well that's some slight reassurance, thanks. Of course I assume this will be challenged in a court case at some point.

Fritz the Horse
Dec 26, 2019

... of course!

The Jan 6th thread is TVIV and more suitable for this kind of chat. Not directed solely at you, but please keep posts itt more substantive. If you want to chat more loosely and shitpost, the TVIV thread is the place for that and it's plenty active right now.

Fritz the Horse
Dec 26, 2019

... of course!
We're not relitigating the 2016 or 2020 primaries itt. It's been done a thousand times and unless there is some new information about the primaries themselves, 2016/2020 primary chat can go here: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3986700

Fritz the Horse
Dec 26, 2019

... of course!

Gumball Gumption posted:

If anything I just see it as a sign that mods are not proactive enough. Stale arguments are a great reason to probe people here but it's also obvious that if your stale argument doesn't offend anyone it gets by because it wasn't reported. So you can easily get away with a lot of boring and pointless white noise about how politics make you feel as long as none of those feelings are too strong. People should also eat a probe for making a boring post like that when we have many places for boring posts and only one place like D&D for serious discussions. If anything we would benefit from more proactive mods who feel the freedom to kick out any and all white noise posting, not just the angry ones which do tend to lean left here.

I agree that it is much better to have mods be proactive and watching threads in the present as opposed to reactive and going through reports hours later handing out probes for discussion that threads have often moved on from. However, you're just never going to get good coverage for that with volunteer mods who mostly have day jobs where they're not able to fully engage with this or other threads during US workday hours. I do try and keep an eye on threads when I have time/energy so I can step in and be proactive if they start going to poo poo, but that's often not possible.

I've encouraged posters that PM with concerns about moderation to message me on Discord if a thread would benefit from quick intervention. I can't speak for the other mods but it's much faster to reach me via the mod discord. DMing me on Discord will ping my phone, PMing me on the forums or submitting a report often won't get a response until evenings. Not that I'm going to drop everything I'm doing if you message me on Discord but if you want proactive moderation that acts in the middle of an exchange instead of hours later, that's more likely to get it. For me anyway. Almost nobody makes use of the Discord. Please don't abuse it, but don't forget it's an option that might result in quicker response if something major is going on.

Son of Thunderbeast posted:

I think that if the rules were robust enough and set up right, it really shouldn't matter who's doing the probing, and an equal number of probes would be dealt to all "sides" (if we must frame it that way). The current set of rules is definitely a strong move in the right direction, but (from the sidelines) there is a noticeable lopsidedness. I think the rules should be treated as a living document under periodic revision, and every so often issues can be identified, evaluated, and then addressed via addendums to the rules, whether that's by revising existing ones, adding new ones, or removing deprecated ones. Examples and precedent-setting posts can be linked to for the sake of illustration, which would enhance the accessibility and ease of understanding to anyone referencing them, which should reduce overall friction. The rules can be revisited every so often, whatever period the mods decide would be best, until an equilibrium is achieved. That's my two cents anyhow.

I think it's worth pointing out that the actual rules are very brief, see here the D&D "mission statement" and rules:

Koos Group posted:

The purpose of D&D is educational. Posters are encouraged to ask questions, share knowledge, learn new things, and speculate, discuss, and argue interpretations and ideas. The hope is that participation here will make posters better informed, develop more refined personal ideologies, be better able to argue their positions in real life, and find ways to put their positions into practice with real world activism.

To this end, D&D only has three true rules: Don't impede discussion, make only posts that productively add to discussion, and obey the rules of the SA forums. To make the expectations of how these rules are to be followed clearer, what follows is a list of specific guidelines implied by them, as well as more specific guidelines implied by those guidelines. It is not meant to be be exhaustive, but to cover common ways in which we might be tempted to break D&D's rules. Further explanation of each guideline is behind spoilers for easier readability.

The longer list of lettered and numbered guidelines are meant to illustrate how those three basic rules work in practice.

------

Anyhow, I don't think there's too much more productive to be said on moderation, so let's end this derail for the evening, please. You can PM Koos or one of the mods to discuss further though I think things have been pretty well laid out.

The intention was to have feedback threads quarterly which means the next planned one will be sometime in August, I believe.

Fritz the Horse fucked around with this message at 06:32 on Jul 2, 2022

Fritz the Horse
Dec 26, 2019

... of course!
Please find something better to do with your holiday weekend than posting about D&D moderation.

Fritz the Horse
Dec 26, 2019

... of course!
This thread has wandered away from current events a bit today and in a couple cases into topics that are already very well-trodden and have their own threads. I would encourage you all to continue discussion in an appropriate spinoff thread (see below) unless it's directly related to current events. For now this is just a heads up, if there continues to be significant discussion on some of these topics we may ask more firmly that they moved to a more appropriate venue.

Just Sever: Bad people are still bad people even if they are related to you
https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3986818
I've reopened this for now.

US State and Local Politics: Parks and Recreation and Nazis
https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3873661

US Politics and Voting: Both Sides Bad, but Especially Dems
https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3986700

Fritz the Horse
Dec 26, 2019

... of course!

Nix Panicus posted:

Theres a discord where the mods hang out that we can use to get immediate attention?

Which discord is this, and why is it not posted in the rules thread so everyone can join it?

Yes, there is a joint D&D/CSPAM mod discord where all the politics forum moderators and IKs are members. The purpose of this Discord server is to allow regular SA users to quickly communicate with mods on urgent matters and also for mods to interact with each other.

I don't see it listed in any stickied D&D threads, it was previously. That would seem to be a significant oversight though not many users make use of Discord for contacting us. Here is a link: https://discord.gg/npMXp9kbWm


Please keep in mind that "immediate attention" does not mean a D&D or CSPAM moderator is going to drop whatever they're doing and attend to your internet argument. Examples of things to ping us on Discord with might be: suicidal ideation, threats of violence, doxxing. If a thread is really going to poo poo and someone's trolling it or it's otherwise becoming a huge mess without moderation presence, that might also qualify. If it's your typical everday internet arguments and stuff that is not very urgent, reports or PMs here on the forums are better.

SA moderators are volunteers and we agree to moderate because we care about the forum community and want to help improve it. The Discord server is a quicker way to get ahold of us if it something is urgent, but please don't pester us about some tedious low-level bullshit that can wait a couple hours until someone looks at the report queue.

Jeffrey and the admins strongly prefer that all "serious" forums business be conducted here via PM or in the public/mod forums. Discord is simply a convenient, unofficial channel that allows for quicker communication.



edit: as above, the Discord link is still in the CSPAM rules thread. Doesn't seem to have been reposted for the recent overhaul of D&D rules.

edit2: I pinged Koos Group on the same Discord mentioned above, he might have further comments or elaboration.

Fritz the Horse fucked around with this message at 09:53 on Jul 3, 2022

Fritz the Horse
Dec 26, 2019

... of course!
sigh...

https://twitter.com/shannonrwatts/status/1543985129818689536?s=20&t=0O8kGadGOuZ9C2KoEt8sUg

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/gunfire-erupts-area-fourth-july-parade-route-highland-park-illinois-sh-rcna36565

At least 6 dead, 24 injured. Shooter was sniping from a rooftop with an AR-15, apparently, and manhunt is still ongoing.

Fritz the Horse
Dec 26, 2019

... of course!

BIG-DICK-BUTT-gently caress posted:

Mods hate me for it, but “nobody likes Hillary” just isn’t based in reality.

I don't hate anyone except for this jerk below, very rude

Nessus posted:

my aging herbivore eyes

Fritz the Horse
Dec 26, 2019

... of course!
to post somewhat more seriously, the Highland Park shooter was just arrested and apparently he's a 4channer, Trump rally attendee, some probably neo-nazi stuff, also a Spotify rapper

edit: these are not great sources and as always, stuff is not very reliable early in a mass shooting but

https://twitter.com/gregoryh325/status/1544085384618975239?s=20&t=wv4CeKnzSYp1U6_MBGC83Q



https://twitter.com/benjerrie/status/1544097072907014145?s=21&t=YNoPU0ztCY3ywJZqJRY2qg


also music video about a school shooting

Fritz the Horse fucked around with this message at 01:09 on Jul 5, 2022

Fritz the Horse
Dec 26, 2019

... of course!
Yeah it's just internet detective stuff so far. It wouldn't surprise me if there's a manifesto or something (do not post it here, thanks). Looks like he was extremely online (4chan/pepe etc stuff).

Fritz the Horse
Dec 26, 2019

... of course!

Edgar Allen Ho posted:

Advocating violence: you lose your SA account, but you can still buy a gun in Illinois. Top tier law. People say the mods are bad at making rules but *gestures to USA*

For a moment I interpreted this post as saying the shooter was a banned SA forums user.

Fritz the Horse
Dec 26, 2019

... of course!
I'm not asking gun discussion be moved out of here at this time, but a reminder that we do have a dedicated thread on gun control and the broader discussion not directly related to events over the weekend might be more appropriate for there : https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=4003545

Fritz the Horse
Dec 26, 2019

... of course!

Meatball posted:

In this analogy, though, frog Joe Biden is only temporarily stunned by the poison, and always swims back to the shore. He's given McConnell several rides at this point.


Failed Imagineer posted:

In this analogy (and also in real life) Joe Biden Greenfrog has incipient dementia, retains no memories of previous betrayals, and spends his days in a reverie of when his Dad used to drive the Corvette down to the ice -cream parlour on a summers day

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

idk where this extended analogy slapfight is going but let's end it, thanks

Fritz the Horse
Dec 26, 2019

... of course!

Rigel posted:

Most of the hormone therapies (especially testosterone) for FTM are already very, very banned by doping rules, for obvious reasons. I guess this hasn't come up yet because they were not going to be competitive anyway at the elite levels against cis men. The only issue has been MTF beating cis women at the elite level.

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

As a general comment on trans athletes and other trans issues, these are sensitive and complex issues and it is not the responsibility of trans posters to educate you on them. Before you comment on trans issues in D&D, please do some homework and/or maybe lurk the LGBTQIA+ thread. The purpose of D&D is to inform and educate, so posts like the quoted above are walking a thin line between regurgitating unexamined TERFy talking points and serving as an opportunity to discuss and learn.

Don't make assumptions, please come informed or lurk/read up before you wade into discussion of trans issues.

Fritz the Horse fucked around with this message at 18:50 on Jul 7, 2022

Fritz the Horse
Dec 26, 2019

... of course!

Rochallor posted:

Galaxy brain legal question: is there anything besides decorum that prevents the President from going, "Actually, I think Marbury v Madison was decided wrongly and therefore judicial review doesn't exist."? It's not in the Constitution and exists only because the SC says it does. As the SC drifts further from public opinion it seems like it would be easier and easier to do.

not a lawyer but my wild-rear end guess is if you went nuclear and declared Marbury vs. Madison wrongly decided, it would cause a constitutional crisis over the legitimacy of SCOTUS but would also remove all other Supreme Court precedent

so something like Obergefell (but also all other SCOTUS precedent) would become non-binding and all of a sudden gay marriage is illegal in red states and there's maximum chaos where 200 years of laws built on SCOTUS precedent evaporate

Fritz the Horse
Dec 26, 2019

... of course!
this seems like we're heading toward relitigating 2016/2020 primaries. let's not do that for the umpteenth time

Fritz the Horse
Dec 26, 2019

... of course!

Gumball Gumption posted:

So should we stop all discussion of police unions or does this mean that it needs to just be more substantive since OP obviously understands now that they were confused about why police unions are not unions?

LT2012 probed themselves so I'll respond I suppose. The original discussion was about a Biden EO refusing to let rail workers strike:

Josef bugman posted:

So I was reading that Biden has signed an executive order refusing to let striking train workers actually strike? Is this accurate.

Here is where I found out about it, apologise ig that is incorrect or if I am not allowed to comment on it.

https://maritime-executive.com/article/president-biden-heads-off-rail-strike-with-60-day-cooling-off-period

It appears to be for a short time, but why is this acceptable?

which then became a discussion about union interests vs. the public interest and then an argument about the definition of unions and whether police unions count.

I wouldn't ask people to stop discussion of police unions, but it's wandered pretty far off the original news item.

edit: as in, it would be more on topic if folks discussed the rail workers' strike EO (if they like), police unions is kind of off on a tangent but it's hardly forbidden discussion or whatever.

Fritz the Horse fucked around with this message at 22:34 on Jul 20, 2022

Fritz the Horse
Dec 26, 2019

... of course!

squirrelzipper posted:

This is both disingenuous and unrealistic.

First - my question, and the article I posted, is why has Manchin suffered no censure for blocking almost all the major initiatives over the last 24 months. Why is he still a chairman? No-one has answered that really other than ‘oh well we need him’. Ok.

Second - you’re ascribing a level of political intellect and attention to voters that demonstrably doesn’t exist. So the ones who can be swayed by Manchin being disciplined won’t be, because it hasn’t happened, and the ones who just pay attention to the promises missed have no vision for why they should vote again. Did you see todays climate announcement?

The party is failing both the engaged and the apathetic voter, and mark my words, I hope I’m wrong, but they’re going to get loving demolished in the mid-terms. Then they can hold focus groups I guess, and will run Biden again, because you know, he’s electable or some poo poo.

You don't seem to actually be engaging with responses to your posts. What do you think removing Manchin from his chairmanship etc would accomplish?

We've been over this territory many times before in this thread. "Blackmail Joe Manchin and prosecute his daughter" etc is perennial.

Please make sure you're contributing something new or interesting and are actually addressing arguments and information presented.

Fritz the Horse
Dec 26, 2019

... of course!
almost the entire last ~page of posts is this argument, maybe just drop it or take it to the Jan 6th thread? doesn't seem to be very productive

edit: specifically, Rigel's argument seems to be an unfalsifiable appeal to the will of the people, if they included recent polling that might be stronger. It seems like kinda handwaving.

Also, Jarmak might've laid Rigel's argument out better last page? But I still think it's not really going anywhere

Jarmak posted:

Impeachment is a political act, a criminal prosecution is not a political act but when done to a former president is likely to be seen as a political act unless it has general popular support. Politicians do political poo poo that is generally unpopular but popular with their constituents all the time, whereas DOJ career officials are historically timid about prosecutions that could be perceived as political... arguably to a fault when it comes to politicians.

Exhibit A: Bill Clinton's impeachment was widely unpopular.

Fritz the Horse fucked around with this message at 14:17 on Jul 25, 2022

Fritz the Horse
Dec 26, 2019

... of course!

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

I don't want to speak for Fritz, but you can keep going with it. Just find some angle that isn't a back of forth of "they will" and "they won't" over and over.

this ^^

Fritz the Horse
Dec 26, 2019

... of course!

Heck Yes! Loam! posted:

Relating it to sexual contact in any manner is irresponsible and wrong. what the actual gently caress.

No it's not, because it is vital that highest risk communities be informed of symptoms, prevention, vaccines, and treatment. That's how epidemiology and public health work.

It's walking a fine line between trying to protect the communities at highest risk and having it framed as another gay disease.

Fritz the Horse
Dec 26, 2019

... of course!
I can't speak for what "lots of reasons" Herstory meant but there's also coercion/nonconsensual sex.

edit: also sex workers.

Fritz the Horse fucked around with this message at 08:10 on Jul 26, 2022

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Fritz the Horse
Dec 26, 2019

... of course!
There are many places on the Something Awful forums you are welcome to opine about mods (or other posters') Holocaust denial, such as: QCS, CCCC, FYAD, CSPAM. This is a thread about US Current Events, so it is not one of them.

Thanks.

Fritz the Horse fucked around with this message at 20:04 on Jul 26, 2022

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