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atelier morgan
Mar 11, 2003

super-scientific, ultra-gay

Lipstick Apathy

marshmallow creep posted:

Also Cheliax has lost lots of territory because of revolts and outside nations seeing them as this monolithic evil force with slavery and a literally diabolic legal system. Categorically "freeing" their slaves (but preserving the caste system of functional slavery) will win them a PR coup and relieve pressure from rebellions and diplomatic neighbors and possibly win them more allies who will help them enforce the legal limits on freedom. "It's not slavery, it's tithing/wages/free trade." It might even make people say poo poo like, "I'm free!? Bless Asmodeus the Liberator!" and undermine actual good deities.

yeah this is establishing that abrogail is still a threat and cheliax is still dangerous and canny in a way that makes them difficult to knock over

the next attempt at a paladin-led invasion will have to deal with an army composed in large part of 'ex-slaves' now bound to military service by their contracts, per firebrands

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atelier morgan
Mar 11, 2003

super-scientific, ultra-gay

Lipstick Apathy

super sweet best pal posted:

How's 2e Gunslinger play? Yee haw or yee nah?

how much do you like enormous crits? just the biggest, fattest crits around

atelier morgan
Mar 11, 2003

super-scientific, ultra-gay

Lipstick Apathy

M. Night Skymall posted:

You don't have to take a level 2 feat just because you're level 2, take a stance and ki strike. Although if you go stoked flame, then yeah definitely take brawling focus.

or a dedication, if one would be good for your concept

monks make fantastic medics

atelier morgan
Mar 11, 2003

super-scientific, ultra-gay

Lipstick Apathy

Big Mouth Billy Basshole posted:

I believe the gunslinger is taking or going to take alchemical crafting to make elemental ammo. I'm not super familiar with the class so not sure when she'll start using it.

gunslinger gets a two feat chain that grants alchemical crafting and infused reagents (first at level 1, then at clvl-3)

no quick alchemy, but you can make bombs as well as bullets and bottled lightning is always a great choice no matter what you're facing

atelier morgan
Mar 11, 2003

super-scientific, ultra-gay

Lipstick Apathy
bo staff has the parry trait for +1 ac on demand so the only thing shield cantrip would be giving is the once per ten minutes damage reduction

if you want the flavor a useful noncombat cantrip might be the better option (detect magic is useful in exploration if you don't have an exploration mode role you intend to fill already)

atelier morgan
Mar 11, 2003

super-scientific, ultra-gay

Lipstick Apathy

Government Handjob posted:

My group is starting Abomination Vaults tomorrow, too. I'll be playing a 17 year old orphan out of the Puddles who is heavily into stories about the Roseguard and so becomes a swashbuckler (wit style).
Basically a cheeky Norville Roberts who is really into parkour and bladed weapons.

Really excited to weaponize my puns.

one of the other characters in the campaign i'm playing in is pretty much that beat for beat but a sacred nagaji swashbuckler wrestler

they've been great fun so i think you're onto something

atelier morgan
Mar 11, 2003

super-scientific, ultra-gay

Lipstick Apathy

Chevy Slyme posted:

It’s widely regarded as one of the strongest archetypes for anyone with an investment in charisma and either diplomacy or intimidation; I think Dread Marshal (the intimidate based version) is considered as a bit better as inspiring marshal has problems with not stacking with a bard.

while true if you don't have a bard inspiring marshal is still phenomenal

atelier morgan
Mar 11, 2003

super-scientific, ultra-gay

Lipstick Apathy
having just survived level 1-2 as alchemist i would suggest that you don't try saving reagents for quick alchemy yet, you just don't get enough to make it through a day without running out of tools and being very sad about how awful your chassis is

imo don't waste your time with minor elixirs of life, they're terrible and your reagents are precious. elixirs of life get ok later on with higher versions, but the minor ones are very bad; a pack of cantrip cards of stabilize will do far more than you can with them (or antidote if you know for a fact you're going into a fromsoft poison swamp makes a much better buff). minor mutagens suffer from a similar problem, their duration is obnoxiously short enough its hard to use them to pre-buff and there's no Quick Bomber equivalent to use them in combat. every time i spent reagents on minor mutagens or elixirs of life they felt completely wasted (albeit i'm not playing a mutagenist, they almost certainly want to make at least a couple because the free action to activate one they drank earlier gets around the duration problem). mutagens are fine by level 3, because they get 10 minute duration so you can even get multiple encounters out of one if your party doesn't need to stop to Treat Wounds

alchemist fire is alright but bottled lightning is my bet for most widely useful standard bomb as flat-footed is always great no matter the target and against anything alive the skunk bomb is fantastic to the point of OP at level 1 (hell, even when i played a wizard my most OP move at level 1 was summoning a skunk to use its attack, and that's a 3 action spell i could do a couple times a day, a level 1 alchemist could pack 4 or 6 skunk bombs easy)

don't worry about your signature field yet, they don't diverge much until you get field research and by then the problems with elixirs of life and mutagens are gone (hell, you can even make an auto-injector for mutagens by then)

e: also, don't forget that alchemical bombs are just martial weapons. if you have dex based martials (or a fighter with any dex at all) on your team they can make good use of them. the only thing better than turn 1 bottled lightning or skunk bomb is turn 1 both (and ofc, if you go with a couple doses of giant centipede venom its always going to be more effective on whatever weapon your fighter is wielding than your own)

atelier morgan fucked around with this message at 00:05 on Jun 24, 2023

atelier morgan
Mar 11, 2003

super-scientific, ultra-gay

Lipstick Apathy
mbe'ke dwarves best dwarves

atelier morgan
Mar 11, 2003

super-scientific, ultra-gay

Lipstick Apathy

PublicOpinion posted:

The boss of Book 3 in our Strength of Thousands game crit failed his save against Slow and we were all kind of shocked it wasn't an Incapacitation spell. Sucked for him!

bosses can critfail against skunk bombs as early as level 1 and it is always hilarious

atelier morgan
Mar 11, 2003

super-scientific, ultra-gay

Lipstick Apathy

3 Action Economist posted:

Did you flank?

A. B. F.

A. Always
B. Be
F. Flanking

Always be flanking.

my experience has been, you always want to be able to apply flat footed but flanking is the most dangerous way to go about it, because it means two people need to be asking for triple attacks and one of them might very well be standing somewhere to be effortlessly flanked and eat a half dozen or more attacks instead

my current party has a dedicated wrestler going for grabs, bottled lightnings, our psychic's shenanigans and an investigator with the feat to grant flat footed to a friendly for an attack all as ways to more safely apply the status

how do we safely apply flat footed is a good basic question to ask about your party

atelier morgan
Mar 11, 2003

super-scientific, ultra-gay

Lipstick Apathy
and 'somehow' just means that your GM is cool with guns being in their game, really

obviously everything is optional based on GM approval but uncommon/rare is really just there as a flag to GMs that 'hey this might have unforeseen consequences, you should actively consider if you're cool with this'

atelier morgan
Mar 11, 2003

super-scientific, ultra-gay

Lipstick Apathy

Megaman's Jockstrap posted:

I also try to let them use Crafting in their Aid check, like one time my Wizard said "hey I made a suit of chainmail, couldn't I spot any weaknesses in our opponent's armor and call them out to our Ranger for an Aid check?" and it's like, yeah. No problem.

i feel like a quiet tip for pf2 gms in general is 'let people aid with basically loving anything they actually come up an excuse for, as long as they think to do it'

atelier morgan
Mar 11, 2003

super-scientific, ultra-gay

Lipstick Apathy
don't worry that much, it would take a great deal of work to make a deadlier encounter than the dragon in the beginner's box

atelier morgan
Mar 11, 2003

super-scientific, ultra-gay

Lipstick Apathy
if the dude's a big grog he probably figures what he's doing is fine and effective enough since he isn't dying (which surprises me, as somebody playing through the vaults right now i'd expect anybody aggressively flanking without even being defense capped to be getting bounced off the floor all the time)

atelier morgan
Mar 11, 2003

super-scientific, ultra-gay

Lipstick Apathy

Kyrosiris posted:

Yeah, I was gonna say, as a fighter in half plate I'm taking some lumps when I try to set up for our swashbuckler; a low AC bard in the tussle sounds like they'd get turned into a stain.

yeah i only get away with doing it sometimes by virtue of drakeheart mutagen and a shield

atelier morgan
Mar 11, 2003

super-scientific, ultra-gay

Lipstick Apathy

xK1 posted:

https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=842

"Usually", so GM fiat if they want to allow ranged aid.

we have an investigator with a gun our GM allows to do covering fire via aid when their strategic analysis shows they'd miss (and they don't have anything better to do) and it hasn't been unbalanced or op so i'd recommend it

atelier morgan
Mar 11, 2003

super-scientific, ultra-gay

Lipstick Apathy

Jen X posted:

I expect much more freedom with Devise a Strategy/Pursue a Lead since Investigators suck poo poo if they have to spend 1/3 of their actions even learning if their attacks will work

the secret sauce for investigator is that you can designate areas (rooms and corridors are mentioned explicitly) as well as people or items as investigations, so you can use your second investigation slot to designate whatever room you're about to kick open the door to/cave you're about to go dive in/etc

unless you're on a really fast clock where spending one minute is too long (or fitting multiple encounters into one 10 minute period because low-level mutagens have stupidly short durations *grumble*) or being outright caught by surprise devise a strategem should end up a free action

atelier morgan fucked around with this message at 02:28 on Oct 11, 2023

atelier morgan
Mar 11, 2003

super-scientific, ultra-gay

Lipstick Apathy

Featherless Biped posted:

Unfortunately I don’t think that works - Devise a Stratagem only becomes a free action if the target creature is the subject you chose for Pursue a Lead. So choosing a room as the subject doesn’t mean you get free action DaS against the inhabitants of that room.

So yeah, Investigators have issues.

if it was intended to target one specific creature you call out then it would take one action and not one minute and it would be called hunt prey and not pursue a lead :v:

the rules for investigator definitely have issues and aren't very well written and the class as a whole is a sometimes food


some GMs look at That's Odd and their eyes light up and some let out a shaky breath and want to die. only play investigator in the former games imo

atelier morgan fucked around with this message at 13:56 on Oct 11, 2023

atelier morgan
Mar 11, 2003

super-scientific, ultra-gay

Lipstick Apathy

Arrrthritis posted:

Precision Damage Immunity was so frequent in abomination vaults that my swashbuckler ended up reclassing into bard and having a much better time. Granted they weren't the most optimized character, scoring a critical finisher on a ghost and having it do two total damage killed all enthusiasm they had for the class.

i'm playing a toxicologist in AV and oh boy am i only sticking with it rather than changing to bomber because its tied in with my character's identity and being the dangerous poisons doctor has made for great rp

(i do not think i will ever play an alchemist again, it's just such an incredibly terrible chassis. bombs and (when relevant) poisons are fantastic, but mutagens should last one hour from the start, 1 or 10 minute durations make them largely pointless through level 5 where we're at and they're also all better used by anyone else. my actual combat role is being the one person who has a shield because my actions are of such little value, so i take point with shield up and take hits for more valuable characters by blocking hallways)

atelier morgan fucked around with this message at 05:56 on Oct 15, 2023

atelier morgan
Mar 11, 2003

super-scientific, ultra-gay

Lipstick Apathy

Andrast posted:

Bomber Alchemists are in a pretty good place thanks to Skunk Bombs from Treasure Vault since that got them a strong repeatable CC/debuff option that remains relevant throughout the entire level range.

i was just complaining about playing a toxicologist in AV and you bring up skunk bombs :v:

they are phenomenal, and considering how great summon skunk was when i played a wizard in early strength of thousands i was very enthusiastic about them

i have now ended multiple adventuring days having thrown zero of my prepared skunk bombs

atelier morgan
Mar 11, 2003

super-scientific, ultra-gay

Lipstick Apathy

Chevy Slyme posted:

For Abomination Vaults you want Ghost Charges. Lots of Ghost Charges. Honestly AV’s early levels are a place where an actually well prepared alchemist shines more than most AP’s.

oh i've been plenty useful, its just a real shame to be such an awful waste of a piece when its actually combat time. 80% of my value would be there if my character wasn't even on the map and the remaining 20% is having HP and taking up a square

our last fight i got immediately turfed by a boss's attacks and a follow-up spell and it was great news because they wasted so many resources. wasn't worth picking me up until somebody was in position to spend a marginal-value third action to do it a few rounds later (and even then only because we needed some potions to go out and it was spending 1 action to gain 2 after i stood up)

i can accept it since i have a ton of fun roleplaying the character and with the game in general but i'm not planning to play an alchemist again

atelier morgan fucked around with this message at 16:27 on Oct 15, 2023

atelier morgan
Mar 11, 2003

super-scientific, ultra-gay

Lipstick Apathy

Clerical Terrors posted:

So how did Napoleonic wargamers in Minneapolis deal with precision damage resistance?

artillery

atelier morgan
Mar 11, 2003

super-scientific, ultra-gay

Lipstick Apathy

Clerical Terrors posted:

So if we gave the rogue a gun...

exactly! the 6d12 bludgeoning damage from a cannon is a more than acceptable replacement for sneak attack damage imo

atelier morgan
Mar 11, 2003

super-scientific, ultra-gay

Lipstick Apathy

Chevy Slyme posted:

Soothe is perfectly adequate for in combat healing. For out of combat healing, someone doing All The Medicine Feats will always be king, and it can be anyone in the party.

kineticist with delicious fruit is up there they also get to heal everyone in the party every ten minutes (and can do so without actually having to spend ten minutes doing it)

atelier morgan
Mar 11, 2003

super-scientific, ultra-gay

Lipstick Apathy

Andrast posted:

Skunk Bombs are extremely good and an excellent perpetual infusion target, add something like Debilitating bombs to it and you're throwing out a ton of debuffs. Alchemists take way better advantage of them than any other class since quick alchemy DC scales with your class DC.

shame you have to stick with alchemist for 7 levels before they get cantrips

atelier morgan
Mar 11, 2003

super-scientific, ultra-gay

Lipstick Apathy
if the rest of your players aren't as invested in the research for its own sake you can always have some goons bust in to try and steal one of their clues

there are a bunch of random feats and lores linked to secret societies in pf2 and having one devoted to this creepy crawlie fits with the mummy

atelier morgan fucked around with this message at 23:58 on Oct 21, 2023

atelier morgan
Mar 11, 2003

super-scientific, ultra-gay

Lipstick Apathy

ZZT the Fifth posted:

Oh no, thematically they're fine. Party-comp wise, I'd be abandoning the closest thing we have to a Defender to instead play a Face/Support.

thaum having level 1 pseudo attack of opportunity (weapon) or pseudo champion's reaction (amulet/bell) access puts them right up there just behind fighter and champion, though?

atelier morgan
Mar 11, 2003

super-scientific, ultra-gay

Lipstick Apathy

3 Action Economist posted:

I got those rules and I didn't like them, bit to be fair I'm kind of an age of sail nerd. Wind has almost no effect in the rules, for example.

golarion has plenty of naval vessels that don't need wind so it'd be weird to make it a direct age of sail thing

between all the various magical propulsions or powering screws/paddles via internal alchemical combustion/steam/clockwork flywheels it's just a mess

atelier morgan fucked around with this message at 23:14 on Oct 22, 2023

atelier morgan
Mar 11, 2003

super-scientific, ultra-gay

Lipstick Apathy
champion is pretty fantastic for thaum imo because you're pretty much picking up 'amulet, but better' for two feats

atelier morgan
Mar 11, 2003

super-scientific, ultra-gay

Lipstick Apathy

Enos Cabell posted:

Keeping track of the gameday down to the minute is some psycho level poo poo.

you basically don't have a choice if you play an alchemist

in our AV game nobody else tracks minutes so i have to do it my own player rear end self so i know when my awkward duration buffs run out

atelier morgan
Mar 11, 2003

super-scientific, ultra-gay

Lipstick Apathy

Cyouni posted:

Did I misremember alchemist buffs and some of them don't follow 1 minute, 10 minutes, 1 hour standard setup?

an hour is a loving awkward thing to track in a dungeon

so's 10 minutes if you're trying to fit as many encounters into the duration of your mutagen as possible

atelier morgan fucked around with this message at 04:05 on Oct 26, 2023

atelier morgan
Mar 11, 2003

super-scientific, ultra-gay

Lipstick Apathy

Chevy Slyme posted:

Is “good riddance” a theory?

-every non-human and non-avistani all at once in one big cheer. also the avistani humans that were poor

atelier morgan
Mar 11, 2003

super-scientific, ultra-gay

Lipstick Apathy

Kvantum posted:

The Mbe'ke dwarves venerate dragons, live underground, have a strong work ethic, a love for crafting, and a militaristic streak. They realized over the course of several centuries and multiple wars that the Kobolds of the Terwa Uplands had basically the same attitudes. Now there are Kobolds with Clan Daggers, kings, and votes in the Mbe'ke government.

Not that the Mbe'ke get along with every reptilian-ish people. They have yet to establish any kind of peace with the Iruxi (lizardfolk) of the area.

it's also important to point out that 'venerate dragons' extends to cloud dragons are incorporated into their society, settlements all generally want to host dragons and will brag and compete with each other about how cool their cloud dragons are

dragons in mbe'ke society fulfill the mark twain suggestion of 'instead of having kings, have cats, they have all the virtues and none of the vices'

atelier morgan
Mar 11, 2003

super-scientific, ultra-gay

Lipstick Apathy

5-Headed Snake God posted:

Strategy question: Is it better for a monk to go for a trip and follow it up with Flurry of Blows, or use FoB first for the higher attack bonus?

trip first, but also flurry of maneuvers is phenomenal for this very sort of situation

atelier morgan
Mar 11, 2003

super-scientific, ultra-gay

Lipstick Apathy
pf2 fights are pretty short and brutal as is idk if there'd be much value in an escalation die jacking up crit rates even further

4e would have benefited from it though

atelier morgan
Mar 11, 2003

super-scientific, ultra-gay

Lipstick Apathy

Fidel Cuckstro posted:

Ok I feel like I hit it out of the park with that 13th Age question.

Does anyone have a game (probably in the D&D vein) that they feel does something head and shoulders above the pack in terms of how to manage scenes that D&D/Pathfinder would usually address with some variation of extended skill challenges? Both in terms of soft-advice as well as a system that maybe engages beyond asking players to try and justify their best skill in to participating? I've seen a few videos about the WFRP system that seems like it could be headed in the right direction, but now with 13th age I have like 5 PDFs I should probably pick up when I get my bonus next year.

Basically...the more Pathfinder Society I play, the more annoyed I am with the state of skills as a part of scenarios (also started playing Sky King's Tomb and feel like I'm seeing similar stuff). Lots of scenes being hung off 2 or 3 skill checks, bad fail states, no choice economy, no reason for players to coordinate...IDK I'd like to find a more robust tool for non-combat scenes that I can anchor a session around the same way I can say 'this combat is going to be the centerpiece of tonight'

blades in the dark, but it does so by skipping over the stuff that would be covered by skill checks and players reference/define those events after the fact in flashback scenes

atelier morgan
Mar 11, 2003

super-scientific, ultra-gay

Lipstick Apathy
if you want to have a fun time with investigator in combat it is very, very important that you stay on top of Pursue a Lead

you can have two leads at once, you can swap or gain a lead from almost anything, it takes 1 minute and you can do it every 10 minutes and it is very generous in what you're allowed to designate and how little information you need to do so. you should strive to have at least some target you can Devise a Strategem as a free action against in every fight

but honestly i feel like for what sort of campaigns APs tend to be just follow piell's advice

Piell posted:

Thaumaturge is an incredibly well made and fun class and I encourage anyone thinking about playing an investigator to do a thaumaturge instead, it'll get you everything you want right out of the box.

atelier morgan
Mar 11, 2003

super-scientific, ultra-gay

Lipstick Apathy

Froghammer posted:

We've got an Inventor with a robot buddy in my Abomination Vaults Stolen Fate game and the robot's been a clutch MVP in a number of combats. Overdrive doesn't look like much at first but can put up some serious numbers between the Inventor's shortbow and the robot's two swings.

yeah one of our kingmaker party is lucca and robo construct inventor and they're a great credit to team

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atelier morgan
Mar 11, 2003

super-scientific, ultra-gay

Lipstick Apathy

Scoss posted:



How many piggies can the Lich fry with a 5-foot wide line attack? How much of a square needs to be "covered" by an area to be considered within an area effect anyway? Does piggy B on the left get hit?

On the right example, I would say intuitively that both pigs are hit, but there is a very confusing set of reference templates in the rules that make this arrangement seem invalid (https://2e.aonprd.com/Images/Rules/Rules354.png)

because it is invalid

your intuition would be a line that covers not one line of 5ft squares, but three lines of 5ft squares

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