MtG Arena: Stupid Sexy Oko

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EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

So, I recently picked Magic back up via Arena after a while away (first and last I'd played was around Khans of Tarkir, for reference). I put in the promo codes and used my wild cards to throw this white/blue soldiers deck together for playing Alchemy, and while I've been seeing a lot of success with it, I figured I'd see if I was missing any super-important cards. Now, to be clear, this isn't anything I expect to go to Mythic rank with, I'm sure it could use a bunch of those bullshit soft removal enchantments white gets or more counters or whatever, but I don't especially enjoy that playstyle, and I'm getting plenty of wins as it is. I'm mostly just looking to see if there's other stuff that synergizes with my gameplan of "summon infinity mans and then make mans biggerer" that I haven't noticed or undervalued. I'll include my thoughts on the cards' performance for me, as well, for context.

4 Survivors of Korlis (the Scry has often been as useful as the First Strike, shoring up my consistency, and my deck loves a staredown, so keeping a First Striker on defense is great)
4 Coppercoat Vanguard (makes everything else stickier, or else forces the opponent to spend removal on them first; opponents will often throw a game by burning their whole turn to overcome Ward)
4 Resolute Reinforcements (an obvious choice when buffing everyone on my board is part of my plan)
4 Valiant Veteran (one of the centerpieces of my gameplan, just wish they were Human; I love their graveyard effect, which has salvaged more than one bad situation for me)
4 Skystrike Officers (my primary game-winners, I've yet to lose a game when they were allowed to start making attacks, and the card draw gets pretty insane)
4 Yotian Tacticians (bigger version of the Valiant Veterans, but also Human synergy, another key workhorse of the deck)
4 Argivian Phalanx (Vigilance lets them apply pressure, and their bulk, soldier buffs, and their cost discount means they can trade well against green, sometimes alongside a couple tokens)
1 Harbin, Vanguard Aviator (can win the game immediately when played on a board with 5+ soldiers already present, reasonably solid in other situations)
1 Myrel, Shield of Argive (Every time she gets to attack, the opponent immediately concedes, but she's also a removal magnet so she's kind of all-or-nothing)
1 Faramir, Prince of Ithilien (Only added him recently, after having him used against me, and he's won each game he showed up in, largely because his effect persists, even if he doesn't)
1 Archangel Elspeth (I like having a Planeswalker, also apparently some MtG players lose their goddamn minds when you drop a Planeswalker, like, they'll spend all sorts of resources to take her out when she was just popping out one token a turn, and it usually leaves them open for me to win the game from there)
1 Thousand Suns Smithy (another card that wins basically automatically if I get to play it; I imagine someone will eventually have the right combination of removal to deal with it and the tokens, but it hasn't happened yet)
1 Flowering of the White Tree (+1/+1s for everyone, and yet more Ward for my legendaries, on top of the Coppercoats)
1 By Elspeth's Command (generates tokens and lets me attack with Myrel without her being immediately blocked to death, not that I've ever had to attack with her more than once)
4 Protect the Negotiators (I felt like, if I was playing blue, I had to have some sort of counterspell, and this one can also make more soldiers and runs off how many soldiers I have, so it feels good to play)
4 Fortified Beachhead (I mean, obviously, especially because a lot of opponents forget about its secondary ability beyond generating mana, which has won me a few games when I get enough land on board)
4 Seachrome Coast (my first three land drops are the most important, so this is the ideal land for me)
2 Caverns of Souls (I'd have 4 but I need more wildcards, this card is stupidly good for any tribal deck, I mean, coming in untapped and giving my creatures wildcard mana is great, but also can't be countered? Holy poo poo)
2 Tranquil Coves (getting replaced by Cavern of Souls, or if I get rare wildcards first, Adarkar Wastes; my deck wants to move way too fast for taplands to be practical)
1 Minas Tirith (Okay this one is kind of indefensible but I got it from one of my free LotR boosters and it usually coming in tapped hasn't messed up my plays yet, and the card draw might come in handy eventually)
6 Plains
2 Islands

I previously had Ambush Paratroopers and a couple Siege Veterans in the deck, but the Paratroopers never got much done, and the Siege Veterans were too slow and reliant on my non-tokens dying, probably better in a deck that focused more on +1/+1 counters, like Vampire Soldiers. The token spells were just too expensive for the effect, as was Protector of Gondor (I mean, for four mana, I could be playing Myrel, Faramir, Elspeth, or Thousand Suns Smithy). I had Ojer Taq, Deepest Foundation in the deck, as well, but I never once got to play him. He'd have probably been game-winning in combination with most of my cards, but six mana's a little pricey for this deck.

Now, a couple cards have my eye already, that I could use input on. First is Horn of Gondor, for obvious reasons. The main issue there is that a lot of my token generators generate non-human soldiers, so X would climb more slowly, but it'd probably still be pretty nuts. The other is The Millennium Calendar, which I pulled from one of my season reward packs earlier today. Skystrike Officer means I can tap basically my whole board every turn, but it feels like a bigtime Win More card, where any situation where I'm untapping enough permanents to realistically ramp up the counters to 1000 is a situation where I could just win normally, but I'm a sucker for alternate wincons. Also, I'd be interested in adding more copies of By Elspeth's Command. That said, in all cases, I have no idea what I'd replace, as my cards are all doing their jobs quite well as it is (and the mana base is already as thin as I can get it without getting screwed every other game).

# ¿ Dec 1, 2023 11:12

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# ¿ May 21, 2024 16:27

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

kalel posted:

You seem to have really high card quality so I would definitely focus on upgrading your mana first with the 3rd and 4th cavern of souls plus the adarkar wastes.

Millennium calendar seems like an interesting anti-control card as long as they don't have a wipe to turn you play it. I would only put it in the sideboard for best of three though, and no more than one copy. By elspeth's command is flexible but lower impact than your other cards I think, again I would keep it in the side board. In fact I would replace the first copy in your main with Horn of Gondor.

Honestly, this is a better reaction than I was expecting. My usual CCG sensibilities tend to get me yelled at for playing wrong, though I did do some research after Faramir proved successful and apparently he was one of the best rares in his set, unsurprisingly. And yeah, tightening up my lands is top priority for me at present, and I'll experiment with swapping Elspeth's Command for Horn of Gondor once I've got the rare wildcards for it (gonna prioritize getting a couple copies of Adarkar Wastes; at least one, since that can also improve any Brawl decks I make). Truthfully, I haven't even touched Bo3 yet (I don't really have the sort of depth to my bench to run a sideboard at the moment), but I can see how Millennium Calendar could be a fun option for that.

By the way, as an aside, I usually see people running Recruitment Officer as their 1-drop in soldiers, and, am I missing something? I mean, the card draw ability is neat, but it's kind of expensive (especially when Skystrike Officer can draw way more cards, basically for free), and Survivor of Krolis takes it out no problem. Same goes for Zephyr Sentinel. Like, none of the soldiers I've seen have ETB effects worth paying for twice, so the main use case I can think of would be using the flash to dodge removal, and the only time a creature would be important enough to protect like that (basically just Myrel), I'm usually tapped out for the turn. Am I really so out of touch, or is it the children that are wrong?

Judgy Fucker posted:

Since we have some new-to-Arena folks posting: if you�re playing constructed you�re going to run into this eventually. Crafting lands is but will be a good way to improve winrate once you have quality spells to cast. It can�t be understated how important it is to cast stuff on curve, get those ETB untapped (even under certain conditions) dual lands or powerful niche lands (like Cavern of Souls).

Yeah, I intuited this pretty much immediately. As soon as I started deckbuilding, I tried looking for the shocklands (which are apparently not Alchemy-legal at present) to go with my Fortified Beachheads, and instead found multiple improvements. Seachrome Coast was very exciting to me, being able to come in untapped at pretty much any time I might want it (the only turn I might feel bad playing one is on 4, and even then, I'll usually have some other good three-mana play I can make during the delay), and Adarkar Wastes is pretty much a straight upgrade to the shocklands, given that even if they end up being my first four land drops (a pretty unlikely scenario to begin with), my fairly low reliance on colored mana (only Harbin, Faramir, the Yotian Tacticians, and the White Tree use more than one) means I'll almost always take less damage than if I were using a set of shocks, and most of the time, I'd take no damage at all.

# ¿ Dec 1, 2023 21:40

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

kalel posted:

to be more explicit, I think the deck makes sense for what it is trying to accomplish, but, while I would not consider myself an alchemy meta expert, I do not expect this deck to be top of the meta. it relies on leveraging a critical mass of permanents which, in the current design of the game, is not a favorable game plan. board wipes are the best they've ever been, and red-based hasty aggro can get under you and force trades on creatures that are supposed to deliver their value a turn or two later. the deck looks functional and you will get wins, but I suspect the control and red aggro decks have enough tools to Just Beat You much of the time in bo1.

on the other hand, alchemy meta is probably pretty loose right now, and I would expect the ladder for that format to not be particularly sweaty.

Yeah, I'm not expecting to be Tier 0 or anything, but in my experience in Alchemy (at least at the level I'm playing at), board wipes have been pretty rare (likely because in a Bo1 format, people tend to focus more on either advancing their own game plan, or more universal disruption rather than trying to counter one specific strategy, which is extremely my playstyle). Most of my losses come from getting mana screwed (or one time, mana flooded, which was just galling, given that my mana base is smaller than recommended for a 60-card deck), or from not having my 1-drop against other aggro decks. The control decks I've run into tend to burn their removal on my Coppercoats and Veterans, and concede once my Skystrikes go off and the Yotians hit the board, and while red aggro does tend to be my biggest problem, getting a Phalanx or two down usually lets me snag the win. But, like I said, I'm not exactly playing against Mythic-rank players, I'm happy to just screw around down in Platinum.

got some chores tonight posted:

Recruitment Officer attacks for 2 on Turn 2

Not when I have Survivor of Krolis out, especially as my buffs come online. Opponents not wanting to attack into my First Strikers, but also being reluctant to burn removal on a 1-drop, has won me quite a few games (conversely, opponents being too willing to burn removal on a 1-drop has also won me games, when they no longer have the removal to deal with my actual threats).

# ¿ Dec 1, 2023 23:13

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

MrL_JaKiri posted:

Pushing an extra damage is usually more worth it than playing defensively in an aggro deck. (Also I, for one, have never actually seen a SoK in play). The draw ability also isn't useless - pay 4 draw 1 for no card isn't too bad a rate

Admittedly, this is only from a few dozen games so far, but I think Recruitment Officer gets played more because it's part of the soldier-themed starter deck, and therefore free. SoK costs wildcards. And my deck is less pure aggro and more of an aggro/OTK deck, because rather than just ramming the enemy to death quickly, I often win by just generating a billion tokens or dropping Harbin and, in either case, attacking for game all at once. SoK is also a hard counter to 1/1 double strikers I see a lot of, like Jawbone Duelist and Fencing Ace. And once the buffs start going, SoK's First Strike gets even more valuable, because where Recruitment Officer will, at best, trade with whatever blocks it, SoK will just run it over.

And in more practical terms, every time I've matched up with another soldier deck, and they put out RO while I drop SoK, I won, and while there were likely other factors at play (I'm the only soldier player I've seen running Skystrike Officer*), their inability to leverage their 1-drop probably didn't help them.

Shrecknet posted:

Survivor of Korlis isn't even the best 1/1 First Strike for 1 in standard, man. I get it, pet cards are pet cards, but listen to the thread.

My deck is soldier synergy. That's a Cleric, so it stays 1/1 forever on my board, whereas SoK goes up to around 4/4 to 6/4 in an average game, depending on what other cards I get out.

*Actually while I'm here, am I insane or is Skystrike Officer, like, the best non-legendary soldier in the format? He's got flying, he generates tokens on attack, and unless your gameplan has completely fallen apart, you're almost certainly drawing at least one card per turn, for free (just tap all your remaining soldiers during the opponent's end phase, I'll often get two or three draws off it, easily). But none of the other soldier decks I've gone up against have used him!

# ¿ Dec 2, 2023 03:11

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

kalel posted:

after a little experimenting in alchemy bo1 I settled on this list, restricting myself to the existing number of copies of cards in your collection

the name of the game is doo alotta dammidge asap. 8 one drops and zero tap lands because we need to get on board immediately—I promise you that survivor of korlis is inferior to the other two one drops here. the curve is pushed way down, only 3 4-drops, so we can curve out such that we have 0 to 1 cards in our hand by turn 4 or 5; we need to get max value out of every card we draw. but we've also upped the land count to 23 because we want our curve to be consistent. we want to go 1, 2, 3 every single time. drawing a lot of lands isn't a problem because you can sink mana into the soldier dual land or the recruiter. no removal because it's expensive and it's bo1, we simply don't have time to pay 2 to essentially remove a blocker when we could be adding to the board (mono white humans/soldiers could easily run lay down arms since it's extremely efficient removal)

I would look into experimenting with more copies of harbin, as well as pippin guardian of the citadel. he combos very well with every card in the deck, especially skystrike officer since he's a vigilant attacker.

Thanks! I'll probably give that decklist a go if I want to start pushing my rank, I imagine it'll get a more consistent winrate than my current deck. And I was looking at Pippin a few days ago, that protection effect seems pretty rad.

# ¿ Dec 2, 2023 04:35

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

Silly question, do you guys think there's any chance of the team ever designing an Un-set for Arena? I figure there's a ton of design space for it using digital-only mechanics. Obviously, porting the older Un-sets in their entirety isn't really possible due to a lot of the cards requiring physical actions, but I can think of some digital-only silver-bordered mechanics off the top of my head:

-Cards like Knight of the Kitchen Sink, but they're randomized in-play (either at game start, when drawn, or on entering the battlefield).
-An enchantment that damages players when they rope or timeout (AKA the future most popular card ever added to the game).
-A card that sets off a Warioware-esque microgame during upkeep for some sort of benefit (assuming the engine can support it).
-An easier-to-use version of Urza, Academy Headmaster.
-A card with different effects depending on the gameboard (admittedly this is literally a card that already exists in Hearthstone; they solved the issue you're already thinking of by only giving it unique effects for the gameboards that existed or were added while it was "standard-legal", and all later boards give it the same generic effect)
-Super-Perpetual effects, which persist between games in a Bo3 (a successor of sorts to the "Double" cycle from Unglued).
-Related to the above, a restricted legendary (given how it would work, locking it to just one-per-player makes sense) that gets true Perpetual bonuses under certain conditions (similar to an achievement system), gaining stats and keywords forever. Of course, it would start out massively underpowered for its cost, and there would be a cap to what you could add, so it would be more like a Risk Legacy board rather than something that could grow infinitely. Sort of an extension of the stickers from Unfinity. Possibly including some means to "reset" the card if you wanted to try again for a different setup.

I think it could be fun, plus it's a set that they could keep selling packs for forever, since Un-sets are essentially their own format (or formats, if they do both a normal and Brawl variant). They could even add cards to it on an irregular basis, a few at a time, whenever they have a fun idea, since it's not like there's a hard release cycle for new Un-sets they need to worry about. Seems like a better way to handle Un-sets in general, rather than putting out a limited print run that people quickly forget about.

# ¿ Dec 6, 2023 00:20

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

kalel posted:

sounds neat but sadly I think a lot of your ideas are an outsized development investment for the return.

one relatively easy thing they could do along this line of design is a midweek magic event that gives you a bonus emblem based on which arena pet you have active. raptor = All dinosaurs in deck perpetually get +1/+1 at the start of the game, black lotus = conjure four black lotuses into your deck, etc. Like a really silly version of commander/brawl

I specifically avoided suggesting things based on companion/avatar/card styles because that gives an inherent advantage to the people who can afford to pay for them, but I see the point being made. I suppose it would require the main MTG dev team to first decide to make a new Un-set using their resources, and then decide to make it digital-only or at least digital-focused (which would give it a bit more longevity than previous iterations, I'd think), which is pretty unlikely.

# ¿ Dec 6, 2023 01:37

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

Okay, I happened to get a draft token (bought the welcome pack and then had a remarkably okay run in a quick draft so I had the gems for the Mastery track), so I fired up a Khans premiere draft and, I don't know how to make those fancy pics everyone's been posting, but I could use some help making the most out of what I got (I wound up with some duds, but I think I scored a few pretty solid cards, too).

1 Firehoof Cavalry
1 Herald of Anafenza
1 Bloodsoaked Champion
1 Jeskai Student
1 Mardu Skullhunter
1 Leaping Master
1 Valley Dasher
1 Chief of the Scale
1 Mardu Hordechief
1 Alabaster Kirin
1 Mardu Heartpiercer
2 Mardu Warshrieker
1 Summit Prowler
1 Sage-eye Harrier
1 Canyon Lurkers
1 Mardu Roughrider

2 Erase
1 Shatter
1 Tormenting Voice
2 Ride Down
1 Kill Shot
1 Act of Treason
1 Barrage of Boulders
2 Trumpet Blast
2 Rush of Battle
1 Dutiful Return
1 Arrow Storm

2 Siegecraft

1 Lens of Clarity
2 Mardu Banner
1 Jeskai Banner

1 Bloodfell Caves
1 Nomad Outpost

Also a Wetland Sambar and Smoke Teller but there's obviously no use case for those.

I figure I'm probably not gonna be doing very many premiere drafts, so I'm hoping to make this one count.

# ¿ Dec 12, 2023 20:47

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

Okay, I managed to figure out how you change the deck view layout, so, here's the pile of cards I got in my Khans Premiere draft (minus the off-color dregs), any thoughts on how to get it working halfway decently? I feel like I got some decent cards, but I think my luck could have been a bit better.

# ¿ Dec 13, 2023 04:34

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

Tezzeract posted:

Check out the card tier list and cut any low performers like the banners

There's a minimum deck size of forty cards, I'm afraid.

# ¿ Dec 13, 2023 06:08

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

Hey, just started a premiere draft, and I'm sorta hoping you guys could help me figure out the best way to deal with this. Was going red/white, but the back half of pack 3 stuck me with a lot of blue (plus some other off-color stuff from the ends of the other packs, and also I may have thrown a few picks to get rares/mythics). I'm hoping what I wound up with could be enough to at least get three wins.

# ¿ Feb 6, 2024 18:22

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

Simply Simon posted:

Do you have 17lands? Or can you put the deck on sealedeck.tech? It's a bit hard to play around with the cards if there's only a static screenshot, especially for a new set.

At first glance imo there's no reason to go out of straight Boros and also you seem to be very light on creatures, but I didn't count.

Alright, here you go.

And I had noticed that I wound up a bit light on creatures, sorta hoping to make the best of a less-than-ideal situation.

# ¿ Feb 6, 2024 18:53

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

Simply Simon posted:

Sure, you gotta try with the pool you have.

https://sealeddeck.tech/sets/mkm/sUgEOX5PLB I'd do this

You don't really have opportunities to splash, or cards that I would like to splash. You do have some cards that are pseudo-creatures (the resurrection, the walkers that make more dogs) and a fair amount of card draw, so that could work in your favor. Also, you could bait them into wrathing and you might not lose much because, well, few creatures. Curve looks fine, so if you don't happen to draw only pump spells, you can easily just win a few games probably.

Thanks for the advice, I got my three wins, at least, though the RNG immediately decided I was done for the day once I had. And pretty glad to have gotten a copy of Leyline out of the draft, got big plans for it in an extremely dumb five-color Detective tribal deck (I wanna see how far I can push Cavern of Souls), once the Alchemy set comes out and I have a more complete picture of my options.

# ¿ Feb 6, 2024 23:01

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

Alright, so, I'm getting eager to waste a bunch of wildcards on a dumb concept deck, so I thought I'd inquire about people's thoughts regarding five-color Detective tribal. For clarity, I'm designing for the Alchemy format, so the deck will likely be updated whenever the Alchemy cards get released. As it stands now the central mechanic is clearly Investigate/Clue usage, as well as Detective synergies, and I plan to include some Cases, but let me break down my thoughts as I see them so far:

Legends: So, when I'm making a deck like this, I like to identify which Legendary creatures I want present first, since I tend to just go one-off on them so they're not a big investment of resources. For this deck, I naturally want Alquist Proft, though he's more of a late-game enabler than the big playmakers I prefer seeing here (though, when X equals 3+, he sure as hell produces some value), but the vast majority of relevant cards for the deck are White/Blue and he's the "main" Detective so it'd be weird not to have him. Ezrim, on the other hand, can definitely make things happen, with his ability to turn Clues into keywords for himself (solid protection, too, with Hexproof-on-demand). Agrus Kos has a handy ability for dealing with an opponent's beatsticks (possibly a bit slow, but great for punishing Suspect decks), and given that there are a lot of Red detectives that fit the playstyle, there's room for him, colorwise. Lazav has a very interesting effect that has the potential to be pretty fun, though I'll likely be relying entirely on Cavern of Souls or Leyline of the Guildpact to get his black mana. Kellan gives me some ramp, plus artifact removal/free Clue-cracking (minus the sac trigger), and I'm probably gonna have some green mana in the deck anyway.

Special Lands: Cavern of Souls is obviously going in. I'm not sure if I'll be using any other Legendary cards beyond the creatures, so Plaza of Heroes probably isn't it. Seachrome Coast and Adarkar Wastes are naturally going in, as are their equivalents in Green/White, plus the Red/White painland. I'm unsure about including the other nonblack painlands or fast lands, it depends on what other cards officially make the cut.

The Detectives: The most important part of the deck, naturally, are the actual detectives, and a fair number of them don't really do anything for the main strategy of the deck. I found the guys that did, and broke them up into three groups: those that I'm certain are important to the deck (though if I'm mistaken, let me know), those that could potentially be good (and this is where I'd most appreciate outside input, to help sort the wheat from the chaff), and those I'm skeptical about, but whose effects are ostensibly relevant (and maybe you guys see usefulness that I don't).

-Definitely: Novice Inspector (Solid 1-drop for the deck, gets you a Clue right off the bat), Private Eye (buffs your board, and can grant battle protection in a pinch), Perimeter Enforcer (Flying and Lifelink are nice on their own, but the buffs when Detectives ETB is a great bonus, seems like a worthy 2-drop), Forensic Gadgeteer (the Clue-generating ability isn't too great, but making Clues cheaper to crack seems pretty great), Reckless Detective (cracks clues to gain his attack, seems solid if the Clue engine can keep up, and could help with Collect Evidence shenanigans, as well), Meddling Youths (mid-size body, Haste, and one of the easiest Investigate conditions), Sharp-Eyed Rookie (gets buffs and Investigates as you play more creatures, seems like a no-brainer to me), Wojek Investigator (excellent keywords, stats that put it out of range of lightning bullshit and Cut Down, and Investigates if you're low on cards, seems perfect to me)

-Maybe: Homicide Investigator (Investigates easily, but would likely require me to actually include Black mana), Tenth District Hero (Evolves into a pretty rad Legendary, and I'm toying with including some Collect Evidence anyway, but I'm not fully sold on it), Evidence Examiner (if I do end up using Collect Evidence, being able to trigger Investigate off of it sounds good), Sample Collector (the third Collect Evidence detective I think could potentially work), Case File Auditor (I'm planning to use at least a couple Cases, so getting to search for more after I solve them seems like a good deal), Cold Case Cracker (feels maybe a touch overpriced, but with buffs active, could pressure the opponent into spending removal on it, which gets me more Clues), Marketwatch Phantom (feels like he has anti-synergy with Private Eye, so I'm unsure about him), Jaded Analyst (with the synergies on the board, I could see him getting some work in, but he dies to Shock without a buff, which ain't great), Loxodon Investigator (it's a deck with a lot of card draw, so it's not hard to trigger his buff, but the wording makes it once per turn, so I can't say I'm impressed), Mistway Spy (interesting dual usage, either face-up in the early game for a 1-drop flyer, or for 3 and then 2 in the mid to late game to potentially get a bunch of Investigates off, but I'm unsure how well it would work in practice)

-Unlikely: Conspiracy Unraveler (cool concept, but Collect Evidence 10 seems pretty steep for a deck with no self-mill), Hotshot Investigators (they definitely feel too pricey, to me, would actually prefer they have Disguise, so the self-bounce could be used as a dodge effect), Exit Specialist (allows for something more like what I actually want from the Hotshots, but no Investigate; getting its toughness to 3+ would make it fairly dangerous), Curious Cadaver (the ability to recycle itself is neat, and it synergizes well with Chalk Outline, but it's kind of expensive), Surveillance Monitor (more Collect Evidence synergy, triggers off other cards' CE effects, but doesn't advance the main gameplan much), Undercover Crocodelf (no matter how you use it, it feels too expensive, and your opponent is unlikely to let you get the Investigate effect more than once), Seasoned Consultant (it gets a Battalion buff, but that's all it brings to the table), Projektor Inspector (I've never been a huge fan of draw-and-discard, though if Collect Evidence is viable, he may actually be pretty good as a way to fuel that), Persuasive Interrogators (requires even more black mana, but as long as they survive just one enemy turn, I can crack Clues and win, so they just barely warrant some consideration)

Noncreatures: I may run one copy of Leyline of the Guildpact, for its potential to fully fix my mana if it's in my opening hand (hopefully I can just play around Protection From effects). Case of the Pilfered Proof is obviously of vital importance. Case of the Locked Hothouse seems like a handy ramp option, especially if I'm drawing a lot of cards, while Case of the Trampled Garden seems like a natural synergy with my other buffs. With all my Clues, I could run Case of the Filched Falcon, but it feels kinda low-value, and Case of the Shattered Pact fits in perfectly with Leyline (on top of the mana-fixing on ETB, doubly useful with Locked Hothouse), but may not be worth it if I don't have both in play. Case of the Gateway Express seems like an interesting means of removal that turns into a minor buff afterwards, not sure how good it is in practice, though. Burden of Proof strikes me as a versatile way to either buff my creatures, or disable an opponent's. Chalk Outline looks like the card to have if I plan to use a Collect Evidence engine in the deck, and I do love making creature tokens. Drag the Canal seems neat, but would require Black mana (and no getting around it with Cavern of Souls). Thinking Cap is amusing, but doesn't strike me as particularly valuable (please correct me if I'm wrong, I'd love to run four hats), and Detective's Satchel seems neat in a vacuum, but I don't think it generates enough value on its own to take up a spot in the deck. Then there's stuff like Warleader's Call, which seems rad, but it's hard to say if it's worth using. Since it's a deck with a lot of White and Blue, though, No More Lies seems like a natural fit, and I'd love to experiment with Repulsive Mutation (unless it turns out it's terrible), and I do definitely need the counterspells, because until Alchemy rotates this fall and finally gets rid of those godawful Phyrexians, Sheoldred is still there making games just the most miserable possible experiences and it's always satisfying to counter her. And this isn't even getting into cards from outside MKM (though, this is a dumb gimmick deck, so maybe I don't need 'em).

So, I know that was a whole lotta words about a stupid deck idea, but I'm curious what you think would make, I suppose, the least bad version of this. Is Collect Evidence viable as a secondary mechanic? Am I completely wrong in my analysis of the cards? Is there a Detective I didn't bring up who would actually really pull the whole thing together? Do I maybe like Cavern of Souls a little too much and am now just trying to force a tribal deck on a new set because I want to participate in the new set but don't want to give up my favorite lands? I dunno, but I at least had fun theorycrafting about it, and hopefully some of you guys might, as well.

EclecticTastes fucked around with this message at 09:51 on Feb 7, 2024

# ¿ Feb 7, 2024 09:44

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

Okay, so I noodled around a bit with Detective Tribal, and I've got a few preliminary findings:

-Forensic Gadgeteer is largely unnecessary, because your creatures are gonna crack your Clues themselves most of the time, as least with the setup I used.

-Sharp-Eyed Rookie is a solid early-game option, but once you have Case of the Pilfered Proof online, the +1/+1 counters they get prevent their ability from activating. Great card for any variant of the deck that includes green, but you want to play them as early as possible.

-The "good" version of Detective Tribal is probably somewhere around Jeskai, because Reckless Detective+Meddling Youths+Case of the Pilfered Proof gives you card draw while generating excess tokens you can use elsewhere, and Private Eye lets you make one (or more, if you get multiple into play) of your attackers unblockable, to keep the engine safe. Plus, you'll have Ezrim and Alquist Proft to use up all those extra Clues you'll be generating, and Agrus Kos can help eliminate threats safely.

-There might also be a good deck in Bant, combining Collect Evidence effects, Chalk Outline, and Case of the Pilfered Proof to generate Clues off of the Detective Tokens you get from Chalk Outline. Kellan provides the free draws rather than Reckless Detective, but can also eliminate problematic artifacts on your opponent's side as a bonus. On the other hand, Investigating is harder due to the lack of Meddling Youths.

-If there's some means to tap an arbitrary number of your own permanents at will, there might be an interesting Millennium Calendar deck to be made with the Meddling Youths+Pilfered Proof engine. Actually, Invasion of Kaladesh/Cephalopod Sentry might be an interesting tech option, possibly opening up some sort of OTK strategy. And dear god, Thousand Moons Smithy scales into the goddamn stratosphere and sets off Pilfered Proof (in fact, being a mono-white card, Thousand Moons Smithy might actually just be an auto-include for Detective Tribal due to all the Clues you can make). Plenty of fuel for Food Fight, too, but that one's capped by how much mana you can spend.

-Since you're running tribal, a single Cavern of Souls on the board can give you access to Lazav, who can do a lot of different things (if he attacks with Reckless Detective and Meddling Youths, he can exile and transform on the same attack*, and in the Bant variant, he can be used on your own graveyard to activate Chalk Outline and recycle your creatures a bit, not to mention that his Investigate condition is trivial, giving the Bant variant better Clue-generation).

*You'll want to go into the settings and disable automatic ordering of trigger resolution for that, to ensure Lazav's exile trigger resolves before RD's sac-and-draw trigger.

Here are the nonlands I'm currently running in my own, much jankier version of the deck.. Will probably add Thousand Moons Smithy going forward. Currently running a slightly thin mana base, full playsets of Seachrome, Adarkar, and Cavern of Souls, but I'll need more Rare WCs before I can smooth things out with more copies of Copperline and Razorverge (I've got three copies of one and one copy of the other; Yavimaya Coast, Battlefield Forge, and a couple copies of Plaza of Heroes are filling out the rest of my lands at present; sadly no Karplusan Forests to speak of). I'm not the best at figuring out the ideal ratios of mana colors to have in a deck, so if someone else is better at it, I'd love some advice on which pain/fast lands to focus on, and if I should swap out some Adarkars/Seachromes for them. Of course, anyone running a serious version of the deck can probably just cut Sharp-Eyed Rookie, swap the Repulsives for more NML (or swap all of them for better counterspells), dump Leyline and Kellan (possibly Lazav, as well, see above), add second copies of some of the one-ofs, do a full Jeskai manabase at closer to the usual 24 lands, and go from there. Of course, even a serious version of Detective Tribal is unlikely to top any leaderboards.

# ¿ Feb 8, 2024 00:15

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

Zero VGS posted:

I tried making some Slime Against Humanity decks in Standard and it just majorly sucks rear end against the Esper / Monored meta. At least with Rat Colony I could cast some kind of creatures can't block" or Sleep or Tetsuko on turn 5 and swing for 20. Slime is like, the enemy finds removal every single turn until I'm dead or lost the tempo race.

Maybe use some Surveil or similar effects in the opening turns to dump copies of Slime, so that your slimes come in bigger. Won't help against hard removal, but just two copies taken out of the deck puts your slimes out of range of most soft removal, and four copies will mean even Rebel Salvo can't take them out.

By the way, something that might be relevant is that the slimes created by Slime Against Humanity all count as creatures with 2 or less power (I guess they ETB before their counters go on), so any cards that trigger off of that (of which there are quite a few in the set) get their benefit from Slimes coming into play, regardless of size. Snarling Gorehound Surveils on that trigger, which could be a way to mill more Slimes and scale faster. Just a thought.

# ¿ Feb 8, 2024 08:48

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

Tezzeract posted:

People liking the set so far?

Personally, I love it, it's all those other sets that need to go. Looking forward to never having to ever see a Phyrexian again.

# ¿ Feb 10, 2024 04:28

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

Okay, so, I have made my initial version of "actually pretty decent Detective Tribal". It could be made more consistent by doubling up on some legends, and my lands situation is throttled a bit by lack of Rare wildcards, but so far it's had pretty good results as a deck that, if you draw your pieces, can weather early-game red aggro and beat them on endurance, and can basically ignore mono-black Phyrexian/Nazgul bullshit and send the clear message that when the next set rotation comes, they will not be missed. Sheoldred remains absolutely loving miserable, no surprise there, so either counter her or run right past her with a board full of unblockable Detectives for game before she wears you down.

code:

4x Novice Inspector (pure setup, get some initial clues for Reckless Detective to use for early-game swings)
4x Case of the Pilfered Proof (put as many down as you can, those counters and the bonus tokens are huge)
1x Tenth District Hero (can probably be cut, she's usually gonna get hit with removal before you can level her up fully, it's just a nifty card)
4x Reckless Detective (part one of the deck's main combo, pops your clues to get cards)
4x No More Lies (there are probably other good 2-mana counters, but the exile effect is very nice)
1x Lazav, Wearer of Faces (can fill in for Meddling Youths much earlier in the game, and can do some rad poo poo of his own, consider running more than 1, just be prepared for him to brick if you don't have Cavern/Plaza)
4x Lightning Helix (do I even need to justify this one?)
4x Wojek Investigator (another obvious pick, though be prepared for him not to investigate as often as you'd like)
1x Alquist Proft (can likely be cut, but he can ensure you don't run out of cards if a game turns into a slugfest)
4x Private Eye (the other essential part of your primary combo, play as many as possible, so when RD cracks your clue, more and more of your board goes Unblockable)
1x Warleader's Call (can definitely run more of these, what a good goddamn card)
1x Thousand Moons Smithy (amazing synergy with clue generation, but nonessential, basically just an alternate wincon)
1x Agrus Kos, Spirit of Justice (definitely run more of him if you want a more consistent deck, total MVP, never worry about Obliterator or Vindicator ever again)
1x Ezrim, Agency Chief (similar situation to Thousand Moons, he's an alternate way to pull out a win if the opponent outs your other stuff midgame)
4x Meddling Youths (attack in with them, RD, and one other creature to set off the combo that lets you hit face with impunity)
4x Adarkar Wastes
4x Seachrome Coast
2x Battlefield Forge (I absolutely want to run four of these)
1x Shivan Falls (Could probably cut this to make room for the Forges, I just wanted more red mana on dual lands)
4x Cavern of Souls (I'd run even more if I could)
2x Plaza of Heroes (not sure if the number of legends in the deck justifies them, but they've been working out alright so far)
1x Plains
1x Island
2x Mountains

Now, the biggest area this deck could probably improve in is the mana base, but I can't say for sure what a better mana base would look like. The deck kinda falls apart if you get stuck with just one color, but while this isn't really an aggro deck, you're going to want to be playing on-curve for at least the first few turns, so taplands are a bad idea. The reliance on pain lands is somewhat ameliorated by the Lightning Helixes, but I would love an Inspiring Vantage reprint.

So, any thoughts? I don't imagine it going too far in ranked, but it's had a solid winrate so far in casual play.

# ¿ Feb 10, 2024 08:20

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

Shrecknet posted:

Secluded Courtyard is in standard, and it's uncommon

�\_(ツ)_/�

Oh, right, sorry, I'm playing Alchemy. I'd try Standard but Sheoldred isn't rotating out of that one until 2025 and fuuuuuuuck that.

# ¿ Feb 10, 2024 18:58

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

VictualSquid posted:

Single set constructed is seriously annoying. Just people playing draft/artisan decks against that one actually good whale deck.

Except for MKM set constructed. Everybody plays slimes and it is awesome.

Thanks for the inspiration, put together a simple slime deck (4 Rubblebelt, 32 Slime, 24 Forest), and my first two opponents were playing some handrip bullshit and it was supremely satisfying to watch them pump up my slimes, as if they thought I might run out at some point. I wish there were more cards that actively punished rear end in a top hat strategies the way Slime Against Humanity punishes handrip and mill strats.

# ¿ Feb 14, 2024 04:37

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

CatstropheWaitress posted:

dunno who posted a very popular mill deck, but I'm now 5 for 6 games hitting it playing Detectives, a surprisingly effective tribal deck but surprise surprise, very bad against a deck that's trying to deck you when the whole gimmick is drawing cards. Big gently caress you to arena mtgmatchmaker.

Makes me miss multi-player games that at least help account a little for the "this deck is entirely engineered to beat your rear end" nature of some matchups.

Checked Covert Go Blue's page to see if they had posted a mill deck lately, and alas, they are not the fucker, but man. Respect the game he's playing for views but I couldn't stomach naming decks with these kinds of titles.

"The best mono green deck in standard wins on turn 3!"
"Only noobs lose to sweepers"
"The perfect control list for THIS mana"
"THEY SCOOP SO FAST! The deck that terrifies the ladder"
"OMG! Life gain is busted now, red players in SHAMBLES"

Gotta keep churning out content to boost those engagement metrics! :shepicide:

Also hell yeah Detective tribal. Been having a ton of fun with it, it plays surprisingly similar to my Soldier tribal deck, only the card draw is a consistent stream popping off during each battle phase instead of going like +3 during the opponent's end phase with Skystrike Officer.

# ¿ Feb 18, 2024 09:01

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

thespaceinvader posted:

I was wondering about detective tribal - what's your list?

To provide an alternate jumping-off point for experimentation, mine is a Jeskai deck, to make use of both Reckless Detective and Private Eye. You can probably work from this to get something better, though. I'm also playing Alchemy, so my available card pool is a bit different.

Naturally, once I have more rare wildcards, I'll be getting more pain lands and probably more Warleader's Call. Tenth District Hero and Alquist Proft are the deck's weak links, but I like playing with a bunch of Legendaries. The deck's intended to survive the set rotation in September, which is why nothing outside the mana base is from before LCI (and even then, I sure hope they reprint some more untapped dual lands soon). The Lazav splash is surprisingly viable thanks to Cavern of Souls. The core of the strategy is the interaction between Reckless Detective, Meddling Youths/Lazav, and Private Eye to go unblockable to face while drawing cards. Agrus Kos adds more "gently caress you you're not blocking this" on top of some admittedly slow removal (he pulls it off more often than you might think; a lot of decks burn their removal on other stuff by the time he hits the board). Ezrim is an excellent finisher, though ideally you'll have an extra mana available to Hexproof him, just in case. Thousand Moons Smithy is off-tribe, but this deck generates a lot of Clues when it's working, so Thousand Moons is a solid alternate wincon since the gnomes will be massive and you have free tap fodder for the transform.

# ¿ Feb 18, 2024 17:03

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

CatstropheWaitress posted:

I'm happy for you too. That's beautiful.

Kind of wish Slime Against Humanity had cost 1 less and made a 1/1 to start. It costing 3 makes it very awkward to include a lot of w/o leading to six turns of dawdling and a lackluster reward for it.

I think Slime costs 3 in part because Rubblebelt Maverick and Aftermath Analyst are also in the set, making them natural 1- and 2-drops in a Slime deck due to their ability to set up your graveyard. The deck's main weakness, I'd say, is lack of card draw. I'm pretty sure even Tribute to the World Tree wouldn't help, since slimes ETB at 0/0*, which would trigger the buff rather than the draw. Ideally, you want to be playing multiple slimes per turn eventually, but without some means to refill your hand, you're gonna run out of steam around turn six or seven.

*This does trigger effects that look for power 2 or lower, like Marketwatch Phantom, found that out during the Jump-In Midweek.

# ¿ Feb 22, 2024 00:47

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

Can I ask, what is it about Ezrim, Agency Chief that turns people into stereotypical Yu-Gi-Oh players? I've won by shame-concede about a dozen times now just by having Ezrim and one free mana on the board. Even when there are other creatures they could be targeting with removal, they'll go for Ezrim because he's a big flyer, and waste the spell, because apparently they didn't read his ability.

# ¿ Feb 27, 2024 03:40

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

space uncle posted:

It got me once. It�s a lot of text and the relevant keyword is the very last thing.

I guess I'm at a slight advantage in this regard, having actually played Yu-Gi-Oh. You think Ezrim is a lot of text? Try this on for size:

# ¿ Feb 27, 2024 04:09

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

I like when I'm playing Momir and someone's trying to galaxy brain it by skipping the first couple turns, and then my 2-drop is that one that counters ETB effects and literally every creature they summon is an understatted ETB card and they concede out of frustration before their hand advantage can get them anything.

# ¿ Feb 28, 2024 03:17

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

CatstropheWaitress posted:

Neither do phantom sealed or phantom drafts.

You got a jackpot and your opponent couldn't do anything. That's what pretty much what every Momir game has been in my experience and it sucks. It takes almost all the actual gameplay out of Magic and just makes it so one person gets a blowout and the other get's the try again and hope the RNG favors them in the next one.

Momir isn't a competitive format, it's an entertainment format. You just play cards and see what sorts of wacky bullshit happens, and sometimes you accidentally end up with some interesting interactions, or pull an obscure card with an interesting effect. Of course, I've played Hearthstone, so I've learned to embrace RNG nonsense.

# ¿ Feb 28, 2024 04:10

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

I hate Perforator Crocodile already.

# ¿ Feb 29, 2024 03:44

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

I'm looking at the cards for the upcoming Alchemy set, and I'm pretty disappointed. I'd have liked some more Detective support in the set, or at least better Detective support. Scrutiny of the Guildpact is technically the right color and makes a Detective, but its actual effect is fully irrelevant to Detectives. Excogitator Sphinx is neat, but it's not doing anything that Detectives weren't already doing just fine. And then there's Scour the Scene, which is almost insultingly pointless. Like, sure, a little extra damage here and there is neat, but when you have finite space in your deck, I just don't see any real benefit to it. Boost the cost a bit, give it a Spellbook to conjure Clue equipment to the battlefield attached to a Detective you control as the triggered effect, and it might be worth playing with, but as it is, I'd rather have Warleader's Call.

At least I got Tajic, Legon's Valor for my Soldier deck....

# ¿ Mar 3, 2024 08:24

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

Eeevil posted:

If a creature has to block if able and you attack into it with a menace creature when they have a second blocker, does that force a double block or does it count as being unable to block?

It forces the block. The only time where you can ignore a "forced to attack/block if able" effect is if a cost has been attached to it (such as with Oppressive Rays), in which case you can decline to pay the cost, thus rendering the creature unable to attack/block.

# ¿ Mar 4, 2024 09:52

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

Rinkles posted:

Been really impressed with Runeterra as an interesting twist on the MtG formula that takes full advantage of being unshackled from a physical card game. And the Path of Heroes mode (single player roguelike) lets you pull off Vintage Cube style nonsense all the time.

How's Hearthstone compare?

Well, first you have to overcome the sort of moral hurdle of the game being owned by a company that manages to somehow stand out head and shoulders above the rest of the video game industry when it comes to exploiting employees and sexual harassment scandals, which is one hell of an "accomplishment" given how bad the industry is just as a baseline. Haven't played in a few years, myself, due to that.

Get past that, and Hearthstone loves RNG-based cards. Even if you don't use them, your opponents will, so get used to wins that feel unsatisfying and losses that feel unfair. The single-player modes are a bit of an improvement, with multiple roguelike modes you can purchase (you don't get nothin' for free in Hearthstone), though they haven't really adapted much to new sets, and the novelty runs out much faster than with Legends of Runeterra. The Dalaran Heist and Tombs of Terror both hold up, and will offer the most playtime, but the rest can be passed on.

One thing in Hearthstone's favor is that, like Legends of Runeterra, there's a lot more focus on actual battle outside of dedicated burn or control decks. It's not just a race to the bottom on who has the most removal/negates/floodgates or who can go face the fastest (or rather, all those miserable, unfun decks do exist, but there are also decktypes that can deal with them without just being one of them). Another thing is that the cards are all pretty simple and straightforward, much like LoR. No longwinded effects text or piles of activated abilities. That said, I'd only recommend it if you're really hard-up to try a different CCG, as Legends of Runeterra kind of eats its lunch in every possible fashion.

# ¿ Mar 6, 2024 23:35

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

It's kind of a shame, actually, it'd be interesting, at the very least, if Disguise creatures could provide more up-front value by Incorporating. As it is, most Incorporates are wasted on Disguise creatures, since the cast triggers don't go off. On the other hand, Guildpact Greenwalker might actually offer some benefit, since Incorporate only applies to the casting cost. It's essentially +4/+4 to a Disguise creature for free.

# ¿ Mar 8, 2024 01:14

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

odiv posted:

Yeah, that's the one I used which made me feel clever, then cheated. Then now I guess clever again.

I bet there's a reasonably interesting deck to be had in combining Scrutiny of the Guildpact and Guildpact Greenwalker with some Disguise creatures. Unyielding Gatekeeper seems like a natural fit, since it flips on the cheap, recycles Greenwalker's ETB, and it starts out White so it gains multicolor benefits when incorporating Green. Forum Familiar can do something similar, though less mana-efficiently (though you get more control over when to use it again). Essence of Antiquity becomes a solid threat with five power, and can't be hit with removal the turn it flips. Naturally, you'd want to incorporate Scrutiny onto a Greenwalker so it Wards itself.

I might have to try it out sometime, actually.

# ¿ Mar 8, 2024 02:04

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

Thundercracker posted:

https://mtgazone.com/free-1500-mtg-arena-gems-for-magic-spellslingers-players-game-announces-shut-down/

Possible 1500 free gems for linking this Spellslingers game to your WOTC account. Reddit not sure if it applies after the announcement but it takes a minute so let's see on March 29!

It only applies to people who were playing the game before March 6th, so anyone who didn't already play the game is outta luck, to be clear.

# ¿ Mar 8, 2024 18:45

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

reignonyourparade posted:

IMO it's really easy to underestimate "I know what my deck is doing, and what my opponent's meta deck is doing, while my opponent has no idea what my deck is doing." When you're really off meta you absolutely notice your opponents making the totally wrong call on what to actually disrupt.

You know, I'd been having a little trouble articulating why my extremely silly soldiers deck performs well above what it should reasonably be capable of (still not great, but I get to Platinum in a reasonable amount of time each month), but this is basically it. Opponents see my Azorius Soldiers and never see it coming when I drop Baird, Anim Pakal, Tajic, or Darien XLVIII using Cavern of Souls/Plaza of Heroes. Also, they see Elspeth and absolutely lose their minds, even wasting hand rip on it rather than actual threats in my hand, because they seem to think she's a wincon when she's really just a midgame value generator (well, occasionally her -2, and even less often, her -6, lets her enable a game-winning play, but that's a rare occurrence and I'm usually just slamming her +1 to keep swarming the board). They also seem to be shocked that the deck with blue mana has counterspells in it whenever I use Protect the Negotiators.

# ¿ Mar 10, 2024 04:39

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

You know, the new Tajic in the Alchemy set is great, but I'm seeing a lot of people misusing him pretty badly. One deck put him out with no actual support or synergy, and rather than hold him back as an indestructible blocker, swung in with him every turn when I could just chump block him (score another one for Elspeth, since the attacks were directed at her; seriously, is Planeswalker Derangement Syndrome a thing?), so I put Anim Pakal out and gnomed him to death while he was open. Another deck paired him with Siege Veteran, rushing him to Aurelia by adding extra +1/+1s, but skipping most of his other drops, so I wound up winning just by having a bigger board thanks to getting all my Tajic summons, despite his Tajic having higher stats. The only summon I'd skip on Tajic is the Spark Trooper, since it doesn't stick around.

# ¿ Mar 11, 2024 07:28

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

Bugsy posted:

Imoti cascade is fine in the midweek, no great triple cascades like you can get in regular brawl. If you copy the list from mtgazone it could use a few tweaks.

Big thanks to all the people netdecking this one, the Caparocti Sunborn deck I threw together has been consistently dumpstering it by doing essentially the opposite strategy (the 99 is almost exclusively 3-cost or lower). Helps that once I ran out of decent creatures, I just stuffed in a bunch of First Strike-granting combat tricks and soft removal that let my creatures punch way up.

Shoutout to the guy running Akawalli who F4'd just because I lured him into a Ride Down against his commander on like turn 4 despite the match seeming otherwise fairly even. Guess we know who the real Seething Tower is. :smug:

# ¿ Mar 13, 2024 23:16

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

imagine dungeons posted:

We�re all just guessing on Brawl matchmaking conditions, btw. We only know for sure that some commanders are put in their own queue because that much was acknowledged by devs but beyond that it�s all guesswork. We can use our communal knowledge to piece it together but we�re still missing a large chunk of the info.

I've seen some info where people tested out the same Commander with just 99 lands vs. an actual deck and it seems that the deck itself is relevant to the matchmaking algorithm, but with lower weight than your choice of commander. Actually weighting every possible deck is extremely NP-hard, so I imagine it's just checking the deck's land-to-nonland ratio or similar.

# ¿ Mar 15, 2024 01:07

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

The main weakness of a Slime deck is that players think they can make a deck with only Slime, which will never be viable. The trick is to add some self-mill and/or ramp. Admittedly, no deck reliant on a single card is going to be great, but if you've got, for instance, Rubblebelt Maverick and Aftermath Analyzer in the deck, you can start to get something going. You might also want Tribute to the World Tree for card draw, because once you've cast out your hand, the deck runs out of steam pretty swiftly. Still leaves room for 24 Slimes.

# ¿ Mar 15, 2024 11:44

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# ¿ May 21, 2024 16:27

EclecticTastes: Sep 17, 2012; "Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

Lone Goat posted:

There's lot of Collect Em Alls in other sets that don't have the "play infinite" text, like Charmed Stray, Faerie Miscreant, Seven Dwarves, half of Coldsnap, and onslaught block constructed superstar Avarax

Charmed Stray is actually part of an Arena Base Set-exclusive partial cycle made up of it, Goblin Gathering, Compound Fracture, and Packhunter Baloth, which care about other cards with their specific names having been played previously, without increasing how many can be put in the deck. Piece it Together completes the cycle mechanically, and may be added to the base set once Alchemy rotates in September.

# ¿ Mar 15, 2024 23:54

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