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Discendo Vox posted:As was pointed out yesterday, the Dems don't have the votes needed for an action going beyond the tentative agreement. This is another case where having more Senate votes would make it more viable. "Whip harder" is no more of a meaningful counterfactual here than it was any of the previous times it was raised to ignore the current balance of the Senate. Vox, I have one question for you, and I'm going to humbly request that you answer with a simple, unconditioned "Yes" or "No": Would you support a wildcat strike if this legislation forcing a contract on the railworkers goes through?
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Nov 30, 2022 17:50
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Discendo Vox posted:I have no idea what the gently caress that would look like, or what I would be doing to "support" it. I'm not planning to break a picket line at a freight yard. You aren't this dense, Vox. Strike funds will need to be paid into, and other working-class people outside of the rail industry will be needed on the picket lines to show cross-profession, cross-political-affiliation support - can striking union workers count on you to contribute to a strike fund or to hold the line with then, yes or no?
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Nov 30, 2022 17:55
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I'm sure I'll regret diving back into the fray again here, but for lack of what sounds like any real experience being a member of a union in a lot of the discussion going on here, I thought it might be important to dispel certain bad-faith misrepresentations of the union contract negotiation process having recently gone through the process myself. I am a card-carrying, dues-paying member of Communications Workers of America Local 1400. The workers at my company have representation through three CWA locals - 1400 , 13000, and 2336. Our contract was hailed as one of the most comprehensive contracts in the tech sector. quote:The three-year contract includes $700,000 in wage scale adjustments and standardizations and 3% annual wages increases. Other significant provisions establish a 40-hour work week; provide financial compensation for on-call, weekend and holiday work; offer remote work options with protections against surveillance tools; and increase the company’s commitment to Diversity, Equity and Inclusion initiatives. Bonterra also agreed to remain neutral if other employee groups want to join the union. The contract was ratified with an 84% acceptance rate across the locals. Each local held its own election; each local had a specific window in which to vote, and had a link to an ActionNetwork form to accept or reject the contract. If 100% of the members of 1400 vote to ratify the contract, this does not obligate the members of local 13000 or local 2336 to be subjected to the contract terms if enough of locals 13000 and 2336 vote the contract down and the contract does not pass the 50% threshold for ratification. This is how union contract negotiations work. I don't particularly care if anyone here thinks the process should work differently - this is the contract ratification process by which modern labor unions operate, whether you like it or not. If you don't like it, feel free to organize your workplace and petition your org (you would have to do this at the top level, in my example if I wanted to shift to a more US-Democratically electoral college system, I would need to petition the overarching CWA organization for this, not my local) to use a stupider vote system - good luck with that! If the vote fails to meet the 50% threshold across 100% of the voting membership, the contract is rejected. That's it. In the case of our contract, we would have entered into an 'impasse' state, where the company is allowed to enact any number of the policies it wants, with none of the concessions we demanded until the dispute was resolved. In the RR strike, this means that the already-authorized Dec 9 strike will remain authorized. Any attempt by the government - federal, state, or jurisdictional - to interfere with union negotiations is engaging in unionbreaking tactics - it does not matter how many different ways you try and slice the vote - the total of "yes" votes across all union locals MUST outweigh the total of "no" votes across all union locals. This is how it works.
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Nov 30, 2022 23:09
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Lib and let die posted:I'm sure I'll regret diving back into the fray again here, but for lack of what sounds like any real experience being a member of a union in a lot of the discussion going on here, I thought it might be important to dispel certain bad-faith misrepresentations of the union contract negotiation process having recently gone through the process myself. As an addendum to this post, I would also like to propose a thought experiment, and take it out of the context of supply lines: ActBlue workers are also unionized under CWA Local 1400. ActBlue is a critical part of the democratic fundraising and electoral victory plan. Their contract has yet to be ratified - were contract negotiations to somehow stall into 2024 a smart, militant union would realize that they have the power to collectively break the democrats fundraising ability by going on strike until a contract is ratified - what would folks here propose as a way forward in this scenario? Elections are matter of national security, so we should quickly draft up legislation to to make that strike illegal, because it's an issue of natsec/the most important election ever so far, right?
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Nov 30, 2022 23:16
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Jarmak posted:This only works in the context of stating the membership's support for sticking with the negotiation process, This is - and I generally refrain from using this word, it is literally the foundation for labor solidarity. "If you don't think you're getting a fair deal, I don't think you're getting a fair deal."
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Dec 1, 2022 00:03
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Jarmak posted:Yes, true, but it's a separable concept from the fairness of the deal itself on it's merits, which again is what was being spoken to. It's not up to you to determine the fairness of the deal. That is an issue for the membership, and the membership has spoken. Lib and let die posted:If the vote fails to meet the 50% threshold across 100% of the voting membership, the contract is rejected. That's it.
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Dec 1, 2022 00:07
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Acebuckeye13 posted:I'm not saying the workers don't deserve more sick days. They do, and I know it's a much more complicated situation than how I framed it. But I framed it that way deliberately because that's how it's going to be presented to millions of Americans, and I'm telling you that making the people of the country suffer over the sick days of otherwise well-compensated workers is not going engender sympathy to their cause or the cause of labor as a whole. This is right-wing, anti-union rhetoric that has absolutely no place in a supposedly left-wing thought space. Emotional appeals urging workers to forego their own material needs "for the greater good" is an attempt to shift responsibility for the RR companies' mismanagement and mistreatment of labor onto the laborers themselves - DARVO: Deny Attack And Reverse Victim and Offender. If a wildcat strike occurs, the victims of that strike are both simultaneously the rail workers themselves (they will not be paid or have medical benefits during the strike), as well as every other working class person in the US.. When posters and professional fommentatore alike engage in rhetoric that frames the situation as "the rail workers striking would have devastating impacts on the already struggling lower class," you have made the victim of the RR companies' mismanagement and abuse the rhetorical perpetrators of an act of abuse on the "rest" of the working class - which they very much are a part of, not apart from.
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Dec 2, 2022 01:25
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Maybe it's not really a clean equivalence between race riots and labor strikes. Maybe.
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Dec 2, 2022 02:27
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Rigel posted:From what I understand the sick days are the only point of contention. The labor unions pretty much got what they wanted on pay increases, but the railroads are absolutely dug in on punishing workers for being sick and not having the psychic power to have scheduled their sick day ahead of time. The railroad business model is built on relying on treating workers as if they are equipment or machines that don't get sick. They don't have enough labor to absorb unplanned days off, and have no interest in reducing their profit to hire more people. I don't have a full summary available right now but the workers' demand is a combination of the number of sick days they have, and the abolition of the point penalty system that could lead to termination for same-day call offs. I believe they are also demanding more rest time between shifts but I'm not 100% certain on that. Regardless, this has been discussed multiple times over the last dozen or so pages and I would encourage you to go back and read through them rather than expecting the posters that took the time to comb through the workers' demands and the TA instead of expecting them to reinvest their time and effort into answering the same question for the nth time.
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Dec 2, 2022 03:26
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Rigel posted:I think you replied to the wrong poster. We're saying the same thing in response to a question above. Yup. Sorry. I meant to respond to this post: Space Cadet Omoly posted:Just give them the sick days, they should have them already, it should be standard practice at all jobs. Lib and let die fucked around with this message at 03:32 on Dec 2, 2022 |
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Dec 2, 2022 03:29
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Discendo Vox posted:At least 11. The R votes were hall passes because they knew it wouldn't hit 60- an opportunity to try to gently caress with the Dems as a wedge. The end result is still that Democrats and Republicans worked hand-in-hand to override the will of the workers and a mechanism of direct democracy. Any attempt to spin it any other way is just that - spin.
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Dec 2, 2022 12:07
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Discendo Vox posted:It’s inaccurate. The thing he’s “forcing” was an agreement tentatively negotiated between the unions and the railroads. If he were “forcing the workers to bear the brunt of the damage”, neither the prior negotiations nor the tentative agreement would have occurred- which included a lot of other concessions from the railroads. The entity that actually voted on this “forcing” was Congress, where there were never the votes for something beyond the negotiated agreement.  It's incredibly ironic, but not at all unexpected to see you spreading disinformation. quote:The thing he’s “forcing” was an agreement tentatively negotiated between the unions and the railroads. Is an inaccurate statement because it is overly general: you are blatantly omitting the fact that this bargaining agreement was agreed upon by union leadership and the railroads and has been rejected on a simple majority basis by union membership. This has been brought up ad nauseum in this thread and frankly, it's disappointing to see you using an inaccurate framework to try and shift responsibility away from the Democratic majority.
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Dec 2, 2022 19:49
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In south Florida, I drove by my polling place on the way to the weed store eta: I also stopped to get an iced coffee at 7-11 and I bought a guy in a wheelchair outside a sandwich and a pack of smokes, which is more good returned to the world than any $10 I ever gave to a democrat Lib and let die fucked around with this message at 13:23 on Dec 4, 2022 |
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Dec 4, 2022 13:04
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It looks like a walkout is all but confirmed at NYT. https://twitter.com/amandahess/status/1600547516059045890 The NYT does not seem interested in joining the Writers' Guild at the bargaining table. https://twitter.com/NYTimesGuild/status/1599786857167958018
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Dec 7, 2022 19:39
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Discendo Vox posted:If the probation is about the strike, I think that was a 24-hour thing and ended several days ago. Forgive my brazen couthlessness for pushing back on you for this post, but the conditions that lead to the walkout still exist. Just because the walkout is over, does not mean that the striking workers got what they want. You can choose to continue mediating content from a source that is now well-known for its abusive labor practices and signal to them that "no, it's alright, keep doing what you're doing, it's fine" and treat the labor walkout as just a one-off anomaly that was a minor inconvenience for you and posters like you for 24 hours, or you can show you have some actual loving working class solidarity and refuse to mediate or consume their coverage until the labor dispute is resolved. But I wouldn't expect you to know much about prole solidarity  (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Dec 14, 2022 16:15
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Discendo Vox posted:I think the explanation I've come up with that squares the circle of "Elon Musk is a complete moron," "Elon Musk is a chessmaster," and "usually competent conservative money has poured into Elon's purchase and isn't visibly withdrawing yet" is that Elon Musk's purchase of twitter was intended to both inoculate him against sources of online critique and also give the Republicans/conservative backers of Elon the 2024 elections through control of arguably the most influential media platform...but Elon is so poisoned by both his own issues and twitter's echo chamber and feedback problems that he's managed to gently caress even that up on an unimaginable scale. Yeah but you're dumb as poo poo so (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Dec 28, 2022 14:21
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Discendo Vox posted:Are we going to have the same exact discussion we already had 8 days ago? What meaningful contribution are you making here or are you just bitching because you don't have a captive audience of unfortunate college students in front of you (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jan 1, 2023 15:35
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