War in Ukraine: thread feedback session open unttil Saturday (i'll regret this)

The Something Awful Forums > Archives > Comedy Goldmine > The Goodmine > War in Ukraine: thread feedback session open unttil Saturday (i'll regret this)

Mr. Smile Face Hat: Sep 15, 2003; Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy

spankmeister posted:

Imo interestingly in German it's often still "Die Ukraine". Get with the times, Germany!

Often? Always! I've never seen anyone just call it "Ukraine" in German, it's always "die Ukraine" everywhere. It also has the same connotation that "The Ukraine" has in English: Not a real country, just some kind of territory.

# ¿ Oct 12, 2022 10:16

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# ¿ May 13, 2024 09:10

Mr. Smile Face Hat: Sep 15, 2003; Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy

boofhead posted:

Like die Schweiz, right? Absolutely not a real country, and we're just waiting for somebody to lay an actual claim to it

Pffft... See below. I'd say it's covered by countries that are federal republics getting an article in German.

boofhead posted:

Jokes aside, I googled this briefly yesterday and I don't think you can so easily equate it to the social connotations that the term has in English

https://german.stackexchange.com/questions/10907/why-do-some-but-not-all-countries-have-articles/10909?noredirect=1#comment27592_10909

The quoted explanation is pretty good. They're listing Ukraine as an unclear case that doesn't fit any of the other explanations why a country would have an article.

In light of the transition of the Czech Republic being called "Die Tschechei" originally and then being changed to "Tschechien" because it used to not be seen as a real country by Germany, I see a parallel with "die Ukraine", particularly considering the pervasive pro-Russian attitudes there before February of this year.

That being said, I don't think there'd be a major resistance now if a move to just "Ukraine" would be widely promoted over there.

# ¿ Oct 12, 2022 11:36

Mr. Smile Face Hat: Sep 15, 2003; Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy

System Metternich posted:

Re: die Tschechei, that's not the full picture. It used to be called "Tschechien" in German for the longest term as referring to the Czech-speaking areas of Bohemia and Moravia. "Die Tschechei" only started to get used when Czechoslovakia was formed, in parallel to "die Slowakei" (which is still in use btw). Due to many Czechs associating it with the Nazi regime (especially the term "Rest-Tschechei" after the Sudeten German areas got annexed in 1938) there was a concerted push to revert to "Tschechien" during the last couple decades which also was mostly successful.

Concerning articles in place names in the German language, it used to be that every single area name went with an article. You can still see it when a country name is paired with an adjective, because then "Deutschland" suddenly becomes neuter: "Das moderne Deutschland". In older texts you can sometimes still read about people from "das Tirol" migrating "ins Russland" or w/e but outside of certain dialectal situations this has died out. Some country names still carry the feminine or masculine article with them. For some it's probably because they used to be the names of "Landschaften" (I don't think there is a straightforward English translation for this, but in this sense here a Landschaft basically is an area defined by either geography or culture and not necessarily by political boundaries) which often - but not always! - go with an article, e.g. die Mongolei, das Allg�u and maybe die Ukraine. In others it might be because the country is named after a landmark, e.g. der Kongo (river) or der Vatikan (hill). Generally speaking I think it's fair to say that for the 14 countries which still carry an article in German (discounting the plural ones as well as countries where "Republik" or "K�nigreich", i.e kingdom, is part of the country's name) the reasons for the continued use of the article are quite varied and not as easy as "Germans don't see die T�rkei or den Iran as a real country!" It isn't straightforward with not-a-country placenames either: of all the 16 German states only das Saarland carries an article, and while it might be die Provence or die Wachau other Landschaften like Schwaben (Swabia) or Schlesien (Silesia) remain article-less.

All that said I don't see any concerted push against "die Ukraine", neither from Ukrainians nor Germans so in any case I don't think that this is much of an issue at all for anybody involved.

In the current international context, "Die Ukraine" is a term that looks disrespectful, no matter how it came to be and through which intentions. The fact that there's no push doesn't prove the opposite.

# ¿ Oct 12, 2022 14:24

Mr. Smile Face Hat: Sep 15, 2003; Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy

KonvexKonkav posted:

Die Amis, die machen mich alle.

Was soll der Quatsch? W�re ja nicht das erste Mal, dass Deutschland von alleine nicht aus seiner Einf�ltigkeit herausfindet. Internationale Anst��e sind ja nicht immer dumm.

# ¿ Oct 12, 2022 15:13

Mr. Smile Face Hat: Sep 15, 2003; Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy

KonvexKonkav posted:

Die USA sind kein richtiges Land.

Angeguckt, wo Du postest -- weiss Bescheid, Danke, werde nicht nochmal drauf reagieren.

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

# ¿ Oct 12, 2022 15:23

Mr. Smile Face Hat: Sep 15, 2003; Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy

Antigravitas posted:

Ah, so not state media then. And some really aggressive clipping that should make anyone suspicious.

That Twitter person is lying about the content of that tiny clip. The question is "how does Russia perceive this", not "what is Sweden doing".

He's not talking about what should be, what ought to be, or making a moral judgement. He's doing the job of a correspondent.

It's not as okay as you're portraying it.

German "�ffentlich-rechtliche" (could maybe be translated as "based on state/national laws") broadcasters aren't fully controlled mouthpieces of the government, but they're also not completely independent of the government. Their existence is constitutionally guaranteed, management positions are based on membership in political parties and they're financed by what amounts to a tax (fees that all citizens have to pay, regardless of whether they listen to / watch these stations or not).

For these reasons, I think they can be more accurately be classified as "government-affiliated".

Additionally, there's the matter of the selection of the news to report on. It's possible to run propaganda campaigns based on 100% accurate news by constantly repeating certain items, emphasizing some aspects of the context and so on.

The talking point "Russia feels threatened by this" has been very common in Germany, and constant repetition lends it credibility. This item would fully fit in with that.

# ¿ Oct 16, 2022 03:53

Mr. Smile Face Hat: Sep 15, 2003; Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy

WarpedLichen posted:

I mean how much of that is because of global hegemony and being the world's reserve currency? Effectively unlimited borrowing is pretty good for the economy.

This article goes into those talking points (not reproducing the diagrams here):

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/28/opinion/us-dollars-currency.html

Krugman posted:

Cryptocurrency was supposed to replace government-issued fiat currency in our daily lives. It hasn�t. But one thing I�m still hearing from the faithful is that Bitcoin, or Ethereum, or maybe some crypto asset introduced by the Chinese, will soon replace the dollar as the global currency of choice.

That�s also very unlikely to happen, since it�s very hard for a currency to function as global money unless it functions as ordinary money first. But still, it�s definitely conceivable that one of these days something will displace the dollar from its current dominance. I used to think the euro might be a contender, although Europe�s troubles now make that seem like a distant prospect. Still, nothing monetary is forever.

But does it matter? My old teacher Charles Kindleberger used to say that anyone who spends too much time thinking about international money goes a little mad. What he meant, I think, was that something like the dollar�s dominance sounds as if it must be very important � a pillar of America�s power in the world. So it�s very hard for people � especially people who aren�t specialists in the field � to wrap their minds around the reality that it�s a fairly trivial issue.

First things first: Dollar dominance is real. These days America accounts for less than a quarter of world G.D.P. at market prices; less than that if you adjust for national differences in the cost of living. Yet U.S. dollars dominate currency trading: When a bank wants to exchange Malaysian ringgit for Peruvian sol, it normally trades ringgit for dollars, then dollars for sol. A lot of world trade is also invoiced in dollars � that is, the contract is written in dollars and the settlement is also in dollars. And dollars account for about 60 percent of official foreign exchange reserves: assets in foreign currencies that governments hold mainly so they can intervene to stabilize markets if necessary.

As I said, this sounds like a big deal. The dollar is, in a sense, the world�s money, and it�s natural to assume that this gives the United States what a French finance minister once called �exorbitant privilege� � the ability to buy stuff simply by printing dollars the world has to take. Every once in a while I see news articles asserting that the special role of the dollar gives America the unique ability to run trade deficits year after year, an option denied to other nations.

Except that this just isn�t true. Here are the current account balances � trade balances, broadly defined � of a few English-speaking countries over the years, measured as a percentage of their G.D.P.:

We�re not the deficit kings.

Yes, America has consistently run deficits. Australia has consistently run even bigger deficits; the U.K. has fluctuated around, but has also run big deficits on average. We�re not special in this regard.

Still, can�t we borrow money more cheaply because the dollar is top dog? If so, it�s a pretty subtle effect. As I write this, 10-year U.S. bonds are yielding 1.6 percent; British 10-years 0.8 percent; Japanese 10-years 0.07 percent. Lots of factors affect borrowing costs, but if the fact that neither the pound nor the yen are major global currencies is a major liability, it�s not obvious in the data.

Now, the pound used to be a major international currency. It wasn�t overtaken by the dollar as a reserve currency until 1955. It was still a major player into the late 1960s. But then its role quickly evaporated. By 1975 the pound was basically just a normal advanced-country currency, used domestically but not outside the country.

So did the value of the pound take a big hit when that happened? No. Here�s the real pound-dollar exchange rate � the number of dollars per pound, adjusted for differential inflation � since the early 1960s:

There have been some big fluctuations over time, reflecting things like Margaret Thatcher�s tight-money policy and Ronald Reagan�s mix of tight money and deficit spending. But the pound has in general been much stronger since it stopped being a global currency than it was before. That�s not a big mystery: It probably reflects London�s continuing role as a global financial hub in an era of financial globalization. But again, it�s hard to see evidence that losing global currency status made much difference.

So is the dollar�s status completely irrelevant? No. The dollar�s popularity does give America a unique export industry � namely, dollars themselves. Or more specifically, Benjamins � $100 bills, which bear the portrait of Benjamin Franklin.

These days the ordinary business of life is largely digital; many Americans rarely use cash. Even the sidewalk fruit and vegetable kiosks in New York often take Venmo. Given that lived reality, it�s jarring to learn just how much currency is in circulation: more than $2 trillion, or more than $6000 for every U.S. resident.

What�s all that cash being used for? One important clue is the denomination of the notes out there:

Yep, it�s mainly Benjamins, which by and large can�t even be used in stores. They are used for payments people don�t want easily traced, usually because they�re doing something illicit.

And here�s where the dollar plays a special role: We have a lot more large-denomination notes in circulation, relative to the size of our economy, than other countries. In 2016, the value of large-denomination U.S. notes in circulation was more than 6 percent of G.D.P.; the corresponding figure for Canada was only a third as much. The main reason for the difference, almost surely, is that a lot of $100 bills are being held outside the U.S.

This willingness of foreigners to hold American cash means, in effect, that the world has lent the U.S. a substantial amount of money � maybe on the order of $1 trillion � at zero interest. That�s not a big deal when interest rates are as low as they are now, but in the past it has been worth more � maybe as much as 0.25 percent of G.D.P.

America does, then, get some advantage from the special role of the dollar. But it�s hardly a major pillar of U.S. power. And being the world�s primary supplier of assets used in illegal activity isn�t exactly a role filled with glory.

So is it possible that the dollar will eventually lose its dominance? Yes. Will it matter? Not so you�d notice.

At least according to Krugman, they're BS.

Mr. Smile Face Hat fucked around with this message at 14:39 on Oct 25, 2022

# ¿ Oct 25, 2022 11:32

Mr. Smile Face Hat: Sep 15, 2003; Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy

Morrow posted:

A little derail, but there's a convincing argument that while it's good for the US financially, it hurts the broader economy because the dollar is going to be artificially strong and increase the cost of imports.

The US economically is weird, I went to grad school with a lot of South Koreans who pointed out that a lot of things they were learning were very specific to the US and other countries need to have different considerations (because, as mentioned, they're not playing international economics on easy mode).

I had posted a reply on this page to the post you�re quoting. It addresses the �easy mode�.

# ¿ Oct 25, 2022 14:41

Mr. Smile Face Hat: Sep 15, 2003; Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy

Willo567 posted:

https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1599111452329013248
Macron is a loving idiot and anyone else who says that "NATO expansion" caused the war

Smug, dumb traitor.

# ¿ Dec 4, 2022 06:13

Mr. Smile Face Hat: Sep 15, 2003; Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy

PederP posted:

Macron never mentioned 'security guarantees' - he mentioned guarantees, and in a larger context. Everyone is getting their undies in a twist over a something he never said. A security guarantee is a very specific thing, and I don't think it was coincidence that a more generic and vague term was used. The entire conversation was focused on making sure Russia was not a position of feeling, or being able to claim being, threatened by NATO. Reuters did a hackjob of a paraphrase where they made it sound like he said something rather different. Just ignore that article - it's dumb and yet another example of words being taken out of context, twisted and the resulting headline being boosted to cause controversy.

You're splitting hair and doing his weasel work for him.

Excuse me for getting "my undies in a twist" over his latest Putin-comforting statement that stands in a row of calling NATO "braindead" and trying to out-Scholz Scholz at having the longest phone conversations with the guy. It's not unreasonable to put his latest suggestion in a long line of his clumsy attempts to somehow get Ukraine to accept some kind of dictated peace that's built on trusting Russia.

# ¿ Dec 5, 2022 13:22

Mr. Smile Face Hat: Sep 15, 2003; Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy

PederP posted:

Did you read or hear the full interview? Reuters (and others misrepresenting what was said) is doing the weasel work here, not me. And yes, Macron has made plenty of bad calls and said plenty of dumb things. But I really don't see the controversy of this interview when it isn't butchered into a misleading headline by various media - it is very close to what many in Ukraine are saying. Having a non-hostile Russia is essential to future prospects for peace in Europe. Macrons is much closer to flat out saying that Russia needs to get over their irrational fears than he is to saying the West should give Russia concessions to placate them.

I agree with the sentiment that an enduring peace can only come after a regime change in Russia. I also believe Macron, Scholz and many others, have wildly unrealistic ideas about what level of normalization is possible while the current regime is in charge. But that shouldn't make us blindly accept the misleading clickbait propagated by many media outlets - especially those that have ties with TASS and have in the past had a few instances of bias.

https://www.tf1info.fr/politique/vi...on-2240681.html

�Il a ajout� � ce propos que l'�tendue de l'Otan serait "un des sujets pour la paix", disant souhaiter fournir une "garantie pour sa propre s�curit� � la Russie quand elle reviendra autour de la table" des n�gociations. "C'est au peuple ukrainien de disposer de lui-m�me et de d�cider � quelles conditions, comment, quand, pas � nous", a-t-il toutefois insist�.�

Translation: �He added in this connection that the extent of NATO would be "one of the subjects for peace", saying that he wished to provide a "guarantee for Russia's own security when it returns to the table" of negotiations. "It is up to the Ukrainian people to decide for themselves and to decide under what conditions, how, when, not up to us," he insisted, however.�

The interview was conducted by TF1 and they also posted the summary with the quotes. Translation by Google translate looks okay to me.

So�

# ¿ Dec 5, 2022 15:42

Mr. Smile Face Hat: Sep 15, 2003; Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy

PederP posted:

And if you watch the full interview, you will come away with a different impression than those quotes taken in isolation - and especially the way they're twisted for maximum controversy. It is also an interview where he talks about the fearful people in the rest of the world having no right to tell Ukraine what to do or to concede anything. He even draws parallels to France's own history. Watch the full interview, with auto-generated translations if needed:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZfDwWm4YFA

I'm not gonna watch his 2 hour interview.

At some point, if you're a professional speaker/politician etc., you have to know what is going to be quoted and how it's going to be perceived in the context of everything else you have said and done. This is his responsibility to take into account. It's not up to me to go through every offensive statement and somehow find an interpretation that benefits him.

I'm sure the guy didn't mean everything he said and is a nice person privately, but that doesn't count in politics.

# ¿ Dec 6, 2022 02:17

Mr. Smile Face Hat: Sep 15, 2003; Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy

cinci zoo sniper posted:

I�ll let him know that he should write his speeches in consideration of a goon who refuses to listen to them.

Nice rhetoric there, thanks. I quoted from the transcript. I don't have the time or inclination to listen to him for two hours in order to find out whether some goon was right that he didn't mean what he said (which, again, is irrelevant in light of what got published from it and him never releasing a statement to the effect of "This is not what I said!/meant").

He certainly had an effect on the German press, where people write editorials on whether countries shouldn't start negotiations with Russia again in light of him "inspiring a necessary debate", such as this one:

https://www.tagesspiegel.de/internationales/verhandlungen-mit-russland-macron-stosst-eine-notwendige-debatte-an-8974063.html

So I'm not the only idiot totally misunderstanding what the guy meant. This is right down his and the Germans' alley and has the intended effect.

# ¿ Dec 6, 2022 04:41

Mr. Smile Face Hat: Sep 15, 2003; Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy

mlmp08 posted:

I don't think that makes Germany unreliable.

I'm not seeing more than a retread and validation of the sticklerism already championed.

"Reliable" might be a poor word to judge Germany on here, since everyone sticking to their ways, no matter how wrong. is reliable. Russia is also reliable. I like "unhelpful" better.

I wonder if the countries that were being helped/liberated by the allies in WWII all had formal contracts with them.

# ¿ Jan 23, 2023 06:49

Mr. Smile Face Hat: Sep 15, 2003; Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy

TheRat posted:

Were they all being liberated for the noble cause of liberation, or were some of them being liberated as part of a sustained effort to beat the enemy into total submission?

No, of course every country always only has the basest of intentions, as we all know :rolleyes:

. (This is also completely irrelevant to my question whether they all had pre-existing agreements or contracts.)

That's why I added "helped", which is probably also somehow inappropriate. Let's say "supported militarily".

Nenonen posted:

At the time people were still quite... naive, as exemplified by how Britain helped Stalin make modern jet fighters for the Korean war.

The UK and the Soviet Union were both part of the principal allies in WWII, so this is also irrelevant to my question.

I don't care whether Russia gets "beaten into total submission" while Ukraine is liberated "for the noble cause of liberation", as long as both things happen.
I also doubt that Ukraine will be given blueprints for the tanks.

# ¿ Jan 23, 2023 09:18

Mr. Smile Face Hat: Sep 15, 2003; Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy

Moon Slayer posted:

is an absolutely nutso opinion to have.

This was your response to ""It's coming from the admins and I can't do anything about it" makes us mad because you're in a much stronger position to do something about it than the rest of us".

I don't know if it's so nutso when I've seen posters (not a reference to cinci) go to mod and then to admin, along with the usual attitude and behavioral changes that go along with people suddenly getting a lot of power in a community.

Somebody must have heard these people. You'd have a point if recruitment would only happen from outside of SA.

In addition to that, mods could go on strike or relinquish their positions if they really don't like something. I think it's gotten close to that on some occasion.

So don't give me that "mods are powerless" crap.

# ¿ Mar 30, 2023 23:19

Mr. Smile Face Hat: Sep 15, 2003; Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy

I think the "(I'll regret this)" in the thread title already sums up what's wrong with this thread and the underlying moderation pretty nicely.

I realize it's some kind of attempt at humor, but it just serves to vaguely downplay the quality and relevance of the feedback, or any actions taken in response to it. Overall, it implies that moderation should be impervious to any feedback.

Thread mod cinci is doing this for free, does an overall good job and is very responsive. One of the main problems is their annoying style that has been criticized by others already. Even if one is 100% correct about something, it's not conducive to a great discussion to constantly come across as condescending and butthurt. I am still in the process of learning this myself.

From what I gather about posting war footage, it seems to be a ploy by someone to make these threads unworkable. You can't post it and you can't talk about any specific piece of it, so I suppose the next logical step is that you can't even say that a major event can be proven by recorded footage. Reminds me of what messed up HAL 9000 or Robocop in Robocop 2.

# ¿ Mar 30, 2023 23:35

Mr. Smile Face Hat: Sep 15, 2003; Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy

cinci zoo sniper posted:

What Moon Slayer is saying is not that mods are powerless, but that admins don't work with mods even 1/10th as closely as I suspect most goons think. As an example, mods will typically have a brawl about some subject for a few weeks, and then an admin will come in and post �well actually, we've decided that�. On this specific subject, a mod forum discussion thread for finalizing this rule was started by an admin 94 minutes ago, to give you a very specific example of where in the conversation mods interested in this are placed.

Right, kinda like the distance between most mods and users (not a veiled dig at you, you're very responsive and seem to take things to heart).

# ¿ Mar 30, 2023 23:37

Mr. Smile Face Hat: Sep 15, 2003; Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy

cinci zoo sniper posted:

The intent behind the joke was that I'll see my self rolled asking for feedback. As much as I like myself, I definitely don't consider myself invulnerable, on SA or otherwise. The lesser in-joke was pointed at the just-concluded feedback thread for the D&D at large, which was less than civil.

Sorry, I don't know what you mean by "rolled", but my English isn't always perfect. (Couldn't find anything good in dictionaries either.)

I think we all have to deal with the less than civil comments sometimes when they stem from understandable frustration. I think this also applies to some of the comments you give to people. They're justified, but in a rough shape.

Given the restraints, I think you're actually doing a great job here and I'd be hard pressed to think of anyone who could do better.

# ¿ Mar 31, 2023 00:25

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# ¿ May 13, 2024 09:10

Mr. Smile Face Hat: Sep 15, 2003; Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy

Nenonen posted:

It's also ramadan so it could be that some old conservatives who take the fast seriously don't want to wait to the night to get back to their family and have dinner. Maybe.

As an off-topic example of how it can affect politics... ramadan is also the reason why Lebanon is in even more chaos than usually. The prime minister announced that the switch to summer time should happen a month later so people don't have to wait an hour longer for sunset. Now the nation is running on two times for a month.

Why not time nighttime in the middle of the day then so people can eat at work and sleep when it's bright out?

# ¿ Mar 31, 2023 09:57

The Something Awful Forums > Archives > Comedy Goldmine > The Goodmine > War in Ukraine: thread feedback session open unttil Saturday (i'll regret this)