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What is the most powerful flying bug?
This poll is closed.
🦋 15 3.71%
🦇 115 28.47%
🪰 12 2.97%
🐦 67 16.58%
dragonfly 94 23.27%
🦟 14 3.47%
🐝 87 21.53%
Total: 404 votes
[Edit Poll (moderators only)]

 
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Hatebag
Jun 17, 2008


Al-Saqr posted:

lol if anyone thinks that American military foreign policy will actually change when elections happen. America is neck deep and in it to win it over Ukraine.

Billions of dollars in rocket launchers is a small price to pay in order to manipulate oil prices

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Hatebag
Jun 17, 2008


The democrats didn't get slaughtered and the russians are retreating. Libs stay winning

Hatebag
Jun 17, 2008


They're going to be "russian" all the way home to moscow!!!

Hatebag
Jun 17, 2008


I think everyone is pretty sick of this war but ukriane's probably not going to settle for losing tens of thousands of square miles of territory to russia every few years when they have the nato money hose going and have proven that russia is too incompetent to murder them all

Hatebag
Jun 17, 2008


Al-Saqr posted:

one thing that scratched the back of my head is what Saudi Arabia is gonna do, they really went to bat for the Russians with the oil price thing and they were hoping to kneecap Biden significantly, now that the Russians have lost and Biden is still in an OK position is america gonna make them pay a price or is it bygones be bygones?

Higher gas prices are good for oil companies so no, it doesn't matter. Probably not great for the saudi western pr blitz though

Hatebag
Jun 17, 2008


I guess they're just gonna dig in at the south end of the antonovskiy bridge and nova kakhova?

Hatebag
Jun 17, 2008


If they can't keep kherson supplied because of the kerch bridge, the russians will need to hold melitopol in order to keep crimea because that's their only rail line back to russia. Seems like it would be easy enough for the ukrainians to sabotage that rail line southwest of melitopol and isolate all of crimea from resupply

Hatebag
Jun 17, 2008


A capitalist country is not going to invade another country because of ideology or humanitarian intentions, that's fuckin ridiculous. A capitalist country invades another country because the rich people in that country think it will benefit them personally so they sacrifice other people's lives for money

Hatebag
Jun 17, 2008


Ardennes posted:

In all honesty, I think it was probably the bridges of the Dnieper itself that were the main issue rather than Kerch. Kerch is seeing some back up because it is only partially operational but most of the bridges over the Dnieper have been taken out.

That said, hitting the lines through Mariupol would complicate things for Russia immensely. The question really is if the Ukrainians are just going to keep on picking at the Russians without any real pushback.

Yeah there's 2 bridges over the dneiper in russian held territory at kherson and nova kakhova, I'm not sure of their condition. I figured that was too tight of a choke on their supplies and easily sabotaged.

I figured that's why they're falling back from kherson, to defend against attacks on melitopol and subsequently crimea

Hatebag
Jun 17, 2008


If russia could master intermodal freight logistics they wouldn't be losing smdh

Hatebag
Jun 17, 2008


Ardennes posted:

I don’t think that is the issue in all honesty, most militaries operate in the same manner. Also, Russia knows containers exist.

Also, at least one line of the Kerch bridge was operational, the status of the other one is unclear.

Yeah I don't really think that's the problem. there's plenty of other routes freight could take to get to kherson, i think they know they can't hold it so they made an excuse

Hatebag
Jun 17, 2008


China's state owned enterprises account for only 40% of china's gdp. Is 50% state enterprise the cutoff for communism?

Hatebag
Jun 17, 2008


euphronius posted:

you can read CCP materials and determine their ideology. they are posted on the internet

I think when your party leadership is as billionaire-heavy as the ccp you gotta consider that they might be capitalists

Hatebag
Jun 17, 2008


Zodium posted:

the juxtaposition between western and chinese covid responses finally convinced me that China is not capitalist. it's a question of control. the cardinal trait of a capitalist country is a lack of it, a slavish pursuit of capital expansion and growth at all scales, i.e., a capitalist country produces capital for the sake of producing capital--hence capitalism, because capital controls the state. the cardinal trait of a socialist country, i.e., a country that is actively working to move past capitalism, is the state's ability to control capital; to stop and start the expansion of capital at all scales, because the state controls capital.

Oh yeah, the chinese state is certainly socialist, i agree

Hatebag
Jun 17, 2008


HiroProtagonist posted:

raising the standard of living across the board for the entire country on regular cycles is going to create some disproportionate concentrations of wealth. that's just material fact. capitalism has never eliminated destitute poverty for anyone because it requires it to exist as a condition to create reserve armies of labor. socialism creates wealth for all, even if some uneven development is inevitable for a country of 1.9 billion people. and billionaires (in yuan? check the exchange rate on that too) who don't toe the line on the five year plans or abuse their status, office or resources get removed, and corrupt ones either stripped of their wealth and asset, jailed, and in some cases executed. this is also not a thing that has ever happened to anyone in the upper strata of capitalist society, ever (absent violent revolution).

the line of argumentation you take is farcical if you compare it to actual reality, but its so common because by pretending china is just another capitalist country you enable yourself to avoid confronting any actual contradictions in your worldview, such as those i mentioned above.

My point is that wealth is communal in a communist state. I think china is more accurately described as socialist rather than communist and that the individuals in the ccp are capitalists because they use personally held capital to make money. China is probably the best country in the world but that doesn't mean that words have no meaning

Hatebag
Jun 17, 2008


How far away from kherson are the russians retreating? That whole region looks like nothing but swamps and farms so it seems hard to defend. Are they just digging in along the east bank of the dneiper or are they pulling out of the whole province or just falling back to nova kakhova?

Hatebag
Jun 17, 2008



Wow they seem pretty hosed. I guess if they can keep crimea supplied that could keep the ukrainians tied up in the south and stop them from sweeping through melitopol but i guess this is maneuvering to prepare for winter or try diplomacy. Seems like melitopol is going to be a bloodbath

Hatebag
Jun 17, 2008


russia killed hundreds of thousands of people, destroyed a country, hardened a nazi puppet state, and lost a bunch of their trading partners to occupy almost the same territory they had when they started the war except now the only bridge into crimea is destroyed.

Hatebag
Jun 17, 2008


speng31b posted:

and they would have gotten away with it too if it weren't for those meddling americans

Yeah they probably coulda taken everything east of the dneiper which frankly would make for a much prettier map

Hatebag
Jun 17, 2008


Raskolnikov38 posted:

I wonder what the political effects on Russia will be once the populace realizes how utterly botched the war was

They're going to elect obama

Hatebag
Jun 17, 2008


Maybe they're stockpiling lng in case the gas pipelines are shut down.

Hatebag
Jun 17, 2008


Russians With Anime

Hatebag
Jun 17, 2008


speng31b posted:

as credible as these sources are, horny for nuclear death to all, it seems more likely it's a grain elevator explosion. apparently these are...somewhat common?

https://knobelsdorffenterprises.com/grain-elevator-explosions-what-are-they-and-how-to-prevent-them/

Grain elevators are basically big ol bombs because moving the grain produces tons of dust that can ignite in a flash from a cigarette or even just a hot piece of metal.

Hatebag
Jun 17, 2008


Begun, the grain wars have

Hatebag
Jun 17, 2008


Russia destroying grain, much like in the holodomor

Hatebag
Jun 17, 2008


*champing

Hatebag
Jun 17, 2008



I've seen enough. Invoke article 5, ukraine must be invaded by nato

Hatebag
Jun 17, 2008


Tankbuster posted:

imagine giving a polish person a nuke.

Smdh they put screen doors on the icbms too!

Hatebag
Jun 17, 2008


Frosted Flake posted:

Ukraine specifically said their war plan, which they have executed nearly to the tee, requires drawing NATO in.

Just saying.

Could they have deliberately targeted that grain silo with an anti-missile missile? Or is an accident that they're making use of more likely?

Hatebag
Jun 17, 2008


speng31b posted:

there's no reason to assume it's a false flag like that. but they've been looking for an excuse to get NATO more involved for a long time, it's just taking advantage of the circumstances

Yeah that's my assumption i just didn't know whether the missiles could be targeted at ground targets

Hatebag
Jun 17, 2008


I don't think the russians were killing tens of thousands of people but sparing the infrastructure for altruistic reasons. They probably thought it would be over quickly and didn't want to have long-term disruptions to fuel sales or have to repair infrastructure in areas they captured. Infrastructure attacks are probably part of digging in for the winter to make the ukrainians spend more resources repairing and hardening substations and pumping stations to the detriment of their fortifications. If the ukrainians were smart they'd just turn the substations, power plants and whatever else into forts

Hatebag
Jun 17, 2008


Ardennes posted:

Eh, I would say the damage being done and could be done is less about distracting the Ukrainians, and more simply destroying the Ukrainian economy and significantly hampering their ability to fight. Ukrainian forces will not disappear but the collapse of the grid and mass evacuations will have a cumulative effect across Ukrainian society; Ukrainian transport needs power and as supply lines get hit, it will have a military effect.

At that point, it would be logical that the Russians would start hitting fuel depots/rail yards from their limited number of diesel locomotives.

This is if they wanted to do so, or they could back off hoping the Americans again will be nice to them.

Supposedly, the Ukrainians have been attempting to sandbag some infrastructure, but that just forces the Russians to use more munitions to take them down.

The strikes are continuing, but they are still dancing around some infrastructure here and there. It is starting to reach the breaking point but I don't think it has yet.

If the russians think the us is going to turn off the money hose they're crazy. this whole thing has been the best thing to happen to us weapons manufacturers in years and profits for oil companies are through the roof. These psychos will keep pushing as long as they can, no matter the cost.
I bet ukraine wishes they had gotten their interconnection to the continental european electric grid finished, though. I guess they would need to build a bunch of substations and high-voltage transmission lines to get enough power to keep the lights on and right now is probably not a good time for them to do 10s of millions of dollars worth of infrastructure projects

Hatebag
Jun 17, 2008


Ardennes posted:

I agree the US will not stop, it is more how much structurally Ukraine can take. Another thing is that the US is only partially funding the Ukrainians and fiscally speaking they are in pretty dire straights. This may seem like a minor thing but the US has historically has been rather "cold" when it comes to fully bailing out countries.


That's true. the us and nato are going to want ukraine to repay the hundreds of billions of dollars spent, probably with a loan structure that doubles or triples the amount spent. but ukraine needs to have a semi-functional economy in order to do that, which requires semi-functional infrastructure. Regardless of the outcome of the war it's going to be a very hosed up place for at least a generation

Hatebag
Jun 17, 2008


Imf loan forgiveness for countries that operate concentration camps in disadvantaged areas for 3 years

Hatebag
Jun 17, 2008


Rutibex posted:

maybe the nuclear plant is being shelled by a mysterious third faction. no way to know

Greenpeace up to their old tricks

Hatebag
Jun 17, 2008



Lmao

Hatebag
Jun 17, 2008


genericnick posted:

Isn't the electric rail system still the main supply line?

Easy to fix, just but big diesel generators on the electric trains and run leads to the trains' pantographs

Hatebag
Jun 17, 2008



Joe Biden sucked me off?!?!?

Hatebag
Jun 17, 2008


Cpt_Obvious posted:

Ok, this has to be a bit now. He can't possibly think America is going to rebuild Ukraine for a trillion dollars right.

https://www.imf.org/external/np/fin/tad/balmov2.aspx?type=TOTAL
If I'm reading this right, the total imf outstanding credit is only $108 billion, so a trillion seems like a big ask. Looks like the us disburses between $30 and $50 billion per year as grants as well

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Hatebag
Jun 17, 2008


Wow, sounds like they'll be "putin" him in the ground pretty soon

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