Pokemon Megathread: Torterras all the way down

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Pokemon Megathread: Torterras all the way down

Paul.Power: Feb 7, 2009; The three roles of APCs:
Transports.
Supply trucks.
Distractions.

Figured out how to export screenshots from my Switch Lite.

I'm calling this diptych "Going All Out" / "Beautiful Defeats and Ugly Victories"

(as an aside, I want to gush so much about how good Nemona is as an implementation of a friendly rival, I could probably write an essay...)

This one's "Paradox Pok�mon":

Paul.Power fucked around with this message at 08:36 on Jan 14, 2023

# ¿ Jan 14, 2023 08:26

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ¿ May 22, 2024 03:21

Paul.Power: Feb 7, 2009; The three roles of APCs:
Transports.
Supply trucks.
Distractions.

Eiba posted:

Me too! And that is how I got a new perspective on statistics as an adult. 90% is also really frustrating! You can kind of rely on it in a way that you can't for 80%, but there's a huge difference between a 90% move and a 100% move, particularly when the situation is close enough that hitting in a particular round really matters.

I liked how I got a Wide Lens for Educated the Maushold because of Play Rough and Super Fang (which I use for capturing because geez the number of mons that can learn False Swipe is a lot lower than I'd hope) and then I went "wait hold on, this is going to be insanely good for Population Bomb when Educated finally learns that..."

Although saying that, by your logic a 99% move is even worse than a 90% move...

# ¿ Jan 14, 2023 20:55

Paul.Power: Feb 7, 2009; The three roles of APCs:
Transports.
Supply trucks.
Distractions.

Potato Salad posted:

just wanted to say I appreciate this

Hehe, thanks

. It was just a great moment of irony that I had to capture.

While I'm here, here's "Paul(a), is This Really the Time?"

I'm loving Nemona, Arven and Penny's awkward bonding session :haw:

# ¿ Jan 15, 2023 00:29

Paul.Power: Feb 7, 2009; The three roles of APCs:
Transports.
Supply trucks.
Distractions.

HD DAD posted:

I�m probably heartless but Penny/Team Star resonated with me more than Arven.

Yeah Arven didn't resonate with my super hard but in some ways maybe it's a good thing that the neglected kid who was basically raised by his dog didn't resonate with me. He's still a fun character, though, has some great lines of dialogue and while it was hard for me to be empathetic, I could at least be sympathetic. Penny resonated with me a little bit more because I had a tough time with this sort of thing at university. I teared up at the resolution of her story, the support of her friends in Team Star, and Director Clavell's understanding approach to the whole thing.

Nemona resonated stupidly hard with me the same ways she resonates with most people who've already played a few Pok�mon games, I imagine. That combination of being so fed up of rivals who just make me feel kinda depressed when I beat them and finally getting someone who it actually feels fun to fight, and her whole "player character who has already beaten the game and realised it's lonely at the top" vibe. The cutscene at the end of her story was a moment of pure catharsis.

Paul.Power fucked around with this message at 01:14 on Jan 16, 2023

# ¿ Jan 16, 2023 00:53

Paul.Power: Feb 7, 2009; The three roles of APCs:
Transports.
Supply trucks.
Distractions.

Larryb posted:

Hell, she almost seems to like it when she loses as it means she�s finally found someone she can engage with on the same level. Nemona�s one of the best rival characters we�ve had in years in my opinion and I like her dynamic with Penny and Arven towards the end of the main game

Yeah, my S Tier is pretty much just Gladion and Nemona (caveat: earliest Pok�mon I've played (beyond an abortive attempt at Blue) is White 2). No-one else really comes close (maybe Lillie, but I think we're stretching the definition of "rival" to breaking point there...).

Gladion is great because
a) his initial prickliness does make him fun to beat at first.
b) he's a good person underneath but he doesn't mind losing to you because ultimately his goal wasn't to become the strongest - it was to protect those he cares about. You were ally in that cause, and the only real way he has to say "thank you" is to give you one last pokemon battle and show off what his cool mon looks like beneath the mask.
c) oh my goodness that battle theme. That bassline.

Paul.Power fucked around with this message at 02:14 on Jan 16, 2023

# ¿ Jan 16, 2023 02:02

Paul.Power: Feb 7, 2009; The three roles of APCs:
Transports.
Supply trucks.
Distractions.

Something that's kinda fun is how many six-mon trainers I've had to face so far. It is of course the nature of this whole three-legged story structure that's going on, but compared with XY's "four mons max" and SuMo's "five mons max" it just feels nice.

I wanted to write up how I felt about each of these fights so far (I have yet to face Professor Turobot) in terms of their difficulty or how interesting the fight was. I'm also going to mention the order in which I faced them, which adds some additional context to how hard I found each fight (like I know from YouTube comments there's a lot of people who really struggled with Arven because they bum-rushed the Titans and a six-mon trainer in the high 50s/low 60s is always going to be tougher than a Titan). I guess context: I've played a lot of modern Pok�mon games but I've never had to deal with, like, Cynthia or anything so my difficulty index may be a bit off, but what can I say, I like writing words:

5. Geeta (faced first): Ohhh boy. Four one-shots, a two-shot on her Gogoat, and the only mon that actually gave me any trouble was Glimmora. Like, I get it, this isn't a traditional Champion fight and she's far from the main event, even within the Victory Road leg of the storyline. We all know she's playing Lance to Nemona's Blue/Red. But even so, Poppy, Larry and Hassel were all bigger challenges (the Rika fight also featured four one-shots, I guess Ground has a lot of double-weaknesses).

4. ~~Cassiopeia~~ Penny (faced fifth): Aww, Penny... I love the Eeveelution theming but it's a definite problem when I can answer every question you pose and you have no answers to my answers (e: I totally forgot that her Leafeon schooled Maurice with X-Scissor. I'm sorry, Penny). Was originally going to put her last but the fact that I faced her fifth and was kinda overlevelled for it made for mitigating circumstances. And hey, great theme tune. I sort of want her to try and become a Champion simply because of the fun thing this gen where you can switch out your team mid-E4, allowing her to bring an entire squad of eight Eeveelutions to the Pok�mon League. She uh, she might need to try swapping Baby-Doll Eyes with something else, though...

3. Arven (faced third): I honestly can't remember a whole lot about the fight, which arguably puts it in a better place than Geeta or Penny at least. I'm glad to see Mabostiff is feeling a lot better! It has a nice set of coverage moves! And hey cool, I also have a Garganacl too! I like that it's all the mons he used in the Titan co-op battles! I can see why people do struggle with him if they're underlevelled, but after facing Champion Nemona he just felt... normal. As with Penny, he could totally become a Champion if it was what he wanted to do.

2. ~~Clive~~ ~~Cassiopeia~~ Clavell (faced fourth): Not a hard fight, but at least an interesting one. I liked how he seemed to be focused less on beating me and more on making himself hard to beat with buffing his defences (Reflect, Snow Warning, Aurora Veil) and mezzing my attacks (Intimidate, Will-O-Wisp). That felt thematic for a teacher, looking to de-escalate the situation (and possibly buy time for Penny), and also thematic for a veteran bored with all-out attack and using more refined techniques. Also hey cool, the starter strong against mine, of course he gets that, he's the one who handed out the starters in the first place. As with Penny, the fact I was overlevelled by this point feels like a bit of a mitigating circumstance.

1a. (daylight)

1. Nemona (faced second): Okay well that ended up being probably the most thrilling, surprising, back-and-forth, down-to-the-wire, narratively compelling and just plain fun Pok�mon battle I've ever been in. Yes I was slightly underlevelled (I was basically on a par with Geeta level-wise). Yes I made an absolutely bone-headed mistake at one point (in my defence, it felt like a move that the designers played for and got: Goodra spamming Muddy Water, causing my attacks from Crystal (Garganacl) and mdbRecoyl (Clawitzer) to miss, making me go "I know, I'll use my attack that never misses!" and Flower Tricking straight into Sap Sipper and an Ice Beam). And yeah there were a few one-shots in there (look Nemona, I've fought Professor Kukui, I know exactly what you're planning with that Lycanroc, and Maurice the Meowscarada is having none of it. Also I had to have Educated use Population Bomb on Dudunsparce, it's the battle of the normal types!). But even as some of those mons were going down they got some good hits in (her Pawmot outspeeding and landing a crippling Ice Punch on Glorious the Clodsire before it could Earthquake, and her Orthworm knocking out my own Pawmot Columbo with an Earthquake of its own following an attempted Close-combat kill. mdbRecoyl was able to close that one out but you know, we were both getting good hits in).

Then, finally, there's her Quaquaval. This is going to need me to back up a minute to the post-gym 5 (i.e. Larry) fight.

So because I wanted to make sure that Larry was a good fight (because of course I did, he's Larry and he's awesome) I was deliberately trying to stay on the level curve at least that far and, well, Maurice was still a Floragato as a result. Nemona's newly-evolved Quaquaval was therefore a complete wrecking ball that, following a Terastalisation and a couple of Aqua Steps speed boosts, I basically had no answer to... well, except for Glorious' Poison Point, which happily triggered while I was panicking and looking for a way out. Cue desperately spamming potions and revives to keep things going long enough for the dancing duck's health to tick down. Heaven knows what Geeta thought of that mess she'd been invited to watch, but I ended up feeling that her comments after the match were very, uh, polite. I was forewarned and overlevelled for the pre-Gym 7 (i.e. Tulip) fight, and Maurice got a Flower Trick one-shot off before the duck could get impossibly fast that time, but this time... well Maurice and my Tera Orb have just driven head-first into a big slimy pseudolegendary, Columbo is also on the mat, Crystal is too hurt to get cute with Salt Cure, mdbRecoyl is still licking some serious wounds from the Goodra fight, and uh...

... all right, so another Population Bomb from Educated takes off most of Quaquaval's health, and they even tough out the counterattack so I wouldn't feel sad! Unfortunately, this duck has already speed boosted too much for that to meaningfully affect things, and Educated also goes down. There's only one option left - it's time to take that Chekhov's Gun off the wall. Glorious, I know you're hurting, I know you're at a type disadvantage, but you're up.

Heal up. One hit. No poison point proc. drat. Maybe I should try max reviving Maurice? This was, in hindsight, a terrible idea, Quaquaval has so much coverage for Meowscarada once it has a speed advantage, I really should have just kept heaing Glorious, but I tried it... and was incredibly lucky that Glorious' Poison Point triggered as it went down. Maurice of course got one-shot by Brick Break, and it was now just a question of my last two barely-hanging-in-there pokemon, Crystal and mdbRecoyl, ticking down the poison clock. I am so glad that trainers never seem to use healing items in this game. Like I get that she's no Cynthia in terms of the competitive build of her team, but I shudder to think what this battle would have been like if Nemona had as many Full Restores as the Sinnoh champ. Or if her Pawmot had Revival Blessing...

You might have seen the screenshots I posted up thread, "Going All Out" and "Beautiful Defeats and Ugly Victories". I don't know what else to say, I feel like those captions are perfect. I know everyone's experiences in this game are so massively different because of its non-linear nature, but I suppose I just feel... well, blessed that I could have a fight that lived up to the crowd of students, townspeople and E4 members (don't think I don't see you pretending not to be interested, Larry) surrounding the match, the inspired concepts behind Nemona as a rival, and the wonderfully cathartic cutscene that followed. One of the most beautiful things about Pok�mon is that ability to craft your own narrative, and through the work of Game Freak's designers and writers, and my own team composition and decisions and mistakes and luck, I got to create one that was an absolute humdinger.

Paul.Power fucked around with this message at 19:57 on Jan 17, 2023

# ¿ Jan 17, 2023 17:14

Paul.Power: Feb 7, 2009; The three roles of APCs:
Transports.
Supply trucks.
Distractions.

Paul.Power posted:

Probably way too many words about the game's climactic fights, particularly the Nemona one

Well having now faced Professor Turobot... uh, he kinda ranks in at number 5 on the list. Maybe 4. Only Iron Hands and Iron Valiant really put up a fight (and once again, Glorious the Clodsire came in very handy against them. It almost feels weird to say, but I think she might have been my MVP).

I guess that database with the battling prowess of all the champions of Paldea hasn't been updated since Nemona and I became champs, huh?

e: also I have an updated spreadsheet to post:

Paul.Power fucked around with this message at 00:44 on Jan 18, 2023

# ¿ Jan 18, 2023 00:14

Paul.Power: Feb 7, 2009; The three roles of APCs:
Transports.
Supply trucks.
Distractions.

Calico Heart posted:

You mean with the different season or uniforms?

Fashion in this game is truly awful

The funny thing is, I'm perfectly happy with it. Purple's my favourite colour anyway, I loved being able to pick the male character and go in a very femme direction with them (even if it would have been cooler to get a true non-binary character option, but oh well), I love shorts and tights as a combo, and this pair I picked up in Levincia goes superbly with the Uva summer uniform:

Shorts And Tights Rivalry Crew II: This Time The Low Ceiling Allowed For A Closer Zoom

Arven is having a time right now

Saying all that, if I get Scarlet too it's gonna be tough because orange is my least favourite colour.

Paul.Power fucked around with this message at 10:11 on Jan 31, 2023

# ¿ Jan 31, 2023 10:04

Paul.Power: Feb 7, 2009; The three roles of APCs:
Transports.
Supply trucks.
Distractions.

wizard2 posted:

It compensates for the fugly pants with Caveman Pokemons. Paldea certainly is a land of contrasts!

On the other hand, I got good shorts and a robot penguin santa (and a pistol shrimp with an oversized claw), so not gonna lie I'm feeling pretty good.

Speaking of robot penguin santa, so it turns out beating the Academy Ace Tournament also confers Champion Ribbons, so I get to update my spreadsheet for the team I built for the gym refights and the first time through the tournament...

Paul.Power fucked around with this message at 12:29 on Jan 31, 2023

# ¿ Jan 31, 2023 12:16

Paul.Power: Feb 7, 2009; The three roles of APCs:
Transports.
Supply trucks.
Distractions.

fatsleepycat posted:

God that's a horrifying thought. If it manages to Tera while the Air Balloon is still intact I think you can only kill it with:

* Poison
* Confusion damage
* Any damaging attack from a Mold Breaker, Turboblaze, or Teravolt Pokemon
* Sandstorm chip

and the poison or confusion have to come from a move that directly inflicts them (Toxic, Poison Powder, Confuse Ray, etc) rather than as a secondary effect or via Toxic Spikes. Effect Spore would also work, but lol you rolled Paralyze instead gtfo.

Poison Point or Flame Body offer more reliable alternatives to Effect Spore here I feel.

# ¿ Jan 31, 2023 21:36

Paul.Power: Feb 7, 2009; The three roles of APCs:
Transports.
Supply trucks.
Distractions.

Flopsy posted:

Wonder Guard would be a broken rear end ability on practically anything else. Once you give the bug the ability to start mitigating weaknesses it literally becomes a God.

I extremely wish that Heavy Duty Boots had been a thing in Gen 6 though, given how my plan against Steven in AS hinged on using OneHitWonder the Shedinja against his Mega Metagross, and then his Skarmory opened with Spikes, which turns out Shedinja is not immune to :geno:

(e: ok yes in hindsight an Air Balloon would also have worked)

Paul.Power fucked around with this message at 09:16 on Feb 1, 2023

# ¿ Feb 1, 2023 09:12

Paul.Power: Feb 7, 2009; The three roles of APCs:
Transports.
Supply trucks.
Distractions.

Polderjoch posted:

They could also just make it up the power of light-based moves like Signal Beam or Flash Cannon.

Dazzling Gleam too.

I do like Lanturn, used one in Alpha Sapphire. Some nice coverage and a heck-ton of HP.

# ¿ Feb 21, 2023 08:48

Paul.Power: Feb 7, 2009; The three roles of APCs:
Transports.
Supply trucks.
Distractions.

Xander B Coolridge posted:

The usefulness of water absorb Clodsire in the story playthrough cannot be overstated though.

It feels like cheating

Someone already did the crossed out joke, but even if it's not the choice for competitive Poison Point Clodsire ended up being the only reason I beat Nemona... twice (and also came in pretty handy for taking down Turo's Iron Valiant, too)

e: oh right, a bit late on this but I did this the other day

Tried to edit it down to being dupeless but then it turned out I'd still left Staraptor in there twice and I went "screw it, call it Larry appreciation".

Also honourable mentions to Maractus and Dudunsparce who should be on here but can't be because there's only room for one Gen 5 mono-grass type and one Gen 9 mono-normal type.

Also a weird thing about this chart is that Lillipup is not a Favourite Regional Mammal option and Grubbin is not a Favourite Regional Bug option...

Paul.Power fucked around with this message at 09:36 on Mar 5, 2023

# ¿ Mar 5, 2023 06:37

Paul.Power: Feb 7, 2009; The three roles of APCs:
Transports.
Supply trucks.
Distractions.

Nessa posted:

It would be a good opportunity for a Normal/Dark type. Little bandit raccoons. Bandicoons. Banditot -> Bandicoon.

Seems unlikely given we've already had one Normal/Dark line branch off from Zigzagoon, even if Obstagoon and co. are more badger-like.

# ¿ Mar 6, 2023 11:37

Paul.Power: Feb 7, 2009; The three roles of APCs:
Transports.
Supply trucks.
Distractions.

Pretzel Rod Stewart posted:

you�ve already been given a level range but note that each Elite Four member has a different type specialty too, so I think dumping your Rule 2 is a good idea as well.

To be fair, you can switch your team out in the middle of the Elite Four this time round.

# ¿ Mar 21, 2023 13:21

Paul.Power: Feb 7, 2009; The three roles of APCs:
Transports.
Supply trucks.
Distractions.

Zore posted:

Tbf SuMo/USUM are exceptions to this. Enemy teams do often get max IVs and EVs as the game goes on as well as good natures.

Take a look at one of the later Guzma battles for instance

Golisopod (Lv. 68) (Nature: Adamant) (Moves: Sucker Punch/Waterfall/First Impression/Brick Break) IVs: 30/30/30/30/30/30 EVs: 0/252/252/0/0/0
Vikavolt (Lv. 68) (Nature: Modest) (Moves: Flash Cannon/Thunderbolt/Bug Buzz/Energy Ball) IVs: 30/30/30/30/30/30 EVs: 252/0/0/252/0/0
Pinsir (Lv. 68) (Nature: Adamant) (Moves: Throat Chop/Storm Throw/X-Scissor/Stone Edge) IVs: 30/30/30/30/30/30 EVs: 0/252/0/0/0/252
Masquerain (Lv. 68) (Nature: Modest) (Moves: Air Slash/Bug Buzz/Ice Beam/Energy Ball) IVs: 30/30/30/30/30/30 EVs: 0/0/0/252/0/252
Scizor (Lv. 68) (Nature: Adamant) (Moves: X-Scissor/Iron Head/Night Slash/Bullet Punch) IVs: 30/30/30/30/30/30 EVs: 0/252/0/0/0/252

That's a pretty brutal wall if you're just using random mons.

This is also why a lot of Alola mons have worse reps than they probably should, in general they're slow and debuted in a generation with some of the harder NPC battles in the series.

One of my favourites for this (may have talked about it before here, but it bears repeating) is Nanu. Here's his team for the Kahuna fight in USUM (I imagine it's similar in SuMo, but I couldn't find that on a quick search of the internet):

Sableye (Lv. 43) (Nature: Impish) (Moves: Power Gem/Shadow Ball/Fake Out/(None)) IVs: 30/30/30/30/30/30 EVs: 0/0/0/252/252/0
Krokorok (Lv. 43) (Nature: Jolly) (Moves: Crunch/Assurance/Swagger/Earthquake) IVs: 30/30/30/30/30/30 EVs: 0/252/0/0/0/252
Persian-A (Lv. 44) @Darkinium Z (Nature: Timid) (Moves: Power Gem/Fake Out/Dark Pulse/(None)) IVs: 30/30/30/30/30/30 EVs: 0/0/0/252/0/252

Between the EVs and the Timid nature, that Persian-A is set up to be as fast as possible, as I discovered to my cost in Moon when I went "well Foxglove the Ribombee can take care of this", got outsped (basically the first time Foxglove had been outsped in the entire game, Ribombee is pretty drat fast after all) and one-shot with Power Gem. This combination of speed and Power Gem gives Nanu a lot of answers to many 'mons you might pick to counter him (any Bug type, Ninetales-A, Hawlucha maybe though I think fighting resists rock?)

Then in Sun I had Bug Bertha the Golisopod and discovered that Fake Out's +3 priority beats First Impression's +2 priority and is basically a perfect counter to it. Note that both his Sableye and Persian-A have the moves Fake Out and Power Gem in their lineups.

And honestly? This all works amazingly from a flavour point of view. Think about it: Nanu is a Dark-type user whose entire job hinges on keeping someone who's strong against Dark types (Guzma's Bug-type team) in check. Guzma's Golisopod is denied its best move and a sitting duck for Power Gem. I don't know whether Persian-A outspeeds Masquerain, but I wouldn't be surprised if that were the plan there too (and of course Masquerain is quad-weak to Rock). The Krokorok doesn't quite fit the pattern, but I'm assuming that flavour-wise that's for dealing with Plumeria (especially her quad-weak-to-Ground Salazzle).

Fun stuff like this does make me sad that we don't get stuff like this in more recent games (I think the only EVs the AI gets in SV is 100 health EVs on their Tera-using ace? Which makes sense, you want it to be tough to take down to help showcase the whole Tera thing, but still feels like we're missing out on a lot.

re Pok�Australia: I want to see a mon based on spinifex - grass/rock with an ability related to entry-hazards. Eucalytpus would be fun too - grass/fire, maybe an ability related to explosions.

Paul.Power fucked around with this message at 13:39 on Apr 19, 2024

# ¿ Apr 19, 2024 13:37

Paul.Power: Feb 7, 2009; The three roles of APCs:
Transports.
Supply trucks.
Distractions.

Aren't Elio, Selene and probably Hau all 11? Since that's when the Island Challenge is traditionally done.

# ¿ May 13, 2024 00:03

Paul.Power: Feb 7, 2009; The three roles of APCs:
Transports.
Supply trucks.
Distractions.

Been playing through Ultra Sun lately, and just beat the Elite 4 and Hau to become Champion and register my team in the Hall of Fame - so hey, here's an updated spreadsheet!

Bred up a Drampa for the run specifically (hence the timing of this: I had to start the run and get that Drampa egg traded over before the non-local WiFi got shut off), and then just generally I had a team theme of "pokemon I've wanted to use for a while but never got round to using", along with trying to use types that I don't use so much, like Dragon, Psychic, Normal, Ghost and Fighting. I also (for the first time ever) put together a team not featuring a water type (and kept going "dang, why are all these fire and ground type trainers giving me trouble?"...)!

It was interesting playing Ultra Sun so long after it came out. Back when I played Ultra Moon I was still fresh off of playing Moon and Sun, and all the changes to the plot kinda smarted. This time round it was quite nice for all of that to be distant memories and to just evaluate USUM on its own merits, and ultimately they're pretty great games! As well as a sense of something that was lost in the transition to the Switch (don't get me wrong, I love Violet, but playing Ultra Sun after Gens 8 and 9 was a reminder of a time when talking to every NPC and exploring every nook and cranny actually felt rewarding). Still, when I do eventually get round to the Violet DLC it's also gonna be nice not to have to wait until Mount Lanakila for the Move Reminder lady...

# ¿ May 14, 2024 13:12

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ¿ May 22, 2024 03:21

Paul.Power: Feb 7, 2009; The three roles of APCs:
Transports.
Supply trucks.
Distractions.

Unrelatedly, I'm glad I took a break between finishing the main game of Pok�mon Violet and starting the DLC, because otherwise I think the whiplash between Nemona, Arven and Penny being some of the most loveable goobers in the entire series and Carmine's first impression as Queen rear end in a top hat, What the gently caress might have broken my neck.

I mean it made her fun to beat in that initial battle, which I suppose is always the most important consideration in a Pok�mon rival, but wow.

# ¿ May 19, 2024 12:18

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Pokemon Megathread: Torterras all the way down