Guardian live blog posted:

Royal commission into robodebt scheme continues
Luke Henriques-Gomes

Damning new evidence presented to the royal commission shows government lawyers warned officials the robodebt scheme may have to be wound up in March 2019, eight months before it was finally stopped.

The March 2019 draft legal advice from the Australian government solicitor was prepared in response to a legal challenge brought by Madeleine Masterton and Victoria Legal Aid. The advice said Masterton had very good prospects of success in her case, because the “income averaging” method central to robodebt was not consistent with the social security act. It noted that while it was commenting on Masterton’s case, the AGS was “conscious it had broader implications”. Yet rather than winding up the scheme or pausing it while the solicitor-general opinion was sought, the Department of Human Services wiped Masterton’s debt two months later, as Guardian Australia revealed at the time. This left Masterton with no case, forcing VLA to find a new plaintiff, which it eventually did. This plaintiff, Deana Amato, won the case in November. Documents shown to the royal commission show the Department of Human Services had wiped Masterton’s debt because it did not want the federal court to make a determination about the legality of the robodebt scheme.

The royal commission was shown an email from DHS chief counsel Tim Ffrench to top DHS official Annette Musolino and compliance general manager Craig Storen. Storen told the royal commission he didn’t necessary know that this advice would mean the scheme would have to stop. The advice wasn’t to me. I was copied into it. I was aware of the general thrust of the advice … I was aware that there was then processes in place to seek a firmer Commonwealth position on the legality of apportionment. Storen was then shown a part of the advice which noted it had “broader implications” beyond the Masterton case. Storen said later he understood the government needed to “consider its position more broadly”. “The Commonwealth was yet to determine its position on where it wanted to take the delivery of the program,” he said.

The royal commission continues.

Guardian AU Blog posted:

A former Department of Social Services official has told a royal commission he was “directed” to water down legal concerns about the robodebt scheme when the policy was been designed in early 2015.

Andrew Whitecross, a former mid-level official at DSS, had been involved in commenting on what became the initial plan for the robodebt scheme that was briefed to the then social services minister Scott Morrison.

The royal commission heard Whitecross and a colleague, Murray Kimber, had fiercely criticised the proposal in January 2015, questioning its legality and fairness as well as the estimated budget savings.

But Whitecross said he was told to water down those concerns by his boss, acting deputy secretary, Catherine Halbert, before the feedback was passed onto the Department of Human Services (DHS), which was formulating the plan.

Whitecross claimed Halbert had said she had spoken to her counterpart at DHS, Malisa Golightly, who had “expressed her concerns about the strength of DSS’ comments”.

“She [Halbert] wanted me to tone down the comments that Murray had provided in his response,” Whitecross said.

“I took it as a direction,” Whitecross added. “We had a disagreement in the conversation about that. I believed the policy wasn’t well developed and lacked merit … and we should be fairly forceful in communicating that.”

Whitecross subsequently provided new comments that watered down the advice, though his revisions still noted the robodebt plan would need legislative change.

Those proposals were sent to Morrison in February 2015 after being finalised by Golightly and the secretary of the department, Kathryn Campbell.

I would blow Dane Cook posted:

I'm not sure if i'm reading between the lines properly, this is about the AFP being the paramilitary wing of the liberal party again isn't it?

Synthbuttrange posted:

https://twitter.com/KenMcAlpine/status/1600248471457796096?s=20&t=FrlMRqO0N2hrlzPEU07mug

have you considered putting the lnp on the blockchain

edit: jesus

Guardian AU posted:

Wieambilla shooting: property owner Gareth Train posted regularly on conspiracy website before police killed

Exclusive: The brother of missing man Nathaniel Train had posted about preparing an ark and alleging the Port Arthur attack was a ‘false-flag’ operation

I would blow Dane Cook posted:

Recoome posted:

First they came for the bogans, and I did not speak up because I was not a bogan

Wizard Master posted:

Pls be respectful mate.

Guardian Au posted:

George Pell wrote memo calling papacy of Pope Francis a ‘catastrophe’

froglet posted:

Guess who's pregnant and been taking the stuff to the max this past week coz there's really not much else I can take with this blasted virus or the tonsilitis that took over after?!

... This gal.



Interesting to know, though.

Guardian AU posted:

Pressure had been building on Tudge over the past couple of years. He has faced intense scrutiny over his handling of the robodebt debacle while a minister in the Morrison government, including an appearance before the royal commission last week, and because of an extra-marital relationship with one of his former advisers, Rachelle Miller.

During the grilling last week, Tudge denied he was responsible for his department’s failure to check the legality of the robodebt scheme, telling the royal commission the issue didn’t cross his mind “until I read about it in the newspaper” years later.

Miller last year secured a $650,000 settlement from the commonwealth after filing a complaint with the Department of Finance alleging she endured bullying, harassment and discrimination at work during her time on staff for Tudge and another Liberal frontbencher, Michaelia Cash.

The two former ministers denied the allegations, and no admission of liability was made by the government. Miller was in the House of Representatives chamber on Thursday when Tudge confirmed his resignation.

imnotinsane posted:

The best part is they did it to save 600k a year when they do over 20 billion in gold sales. Absolutely the dumbest idea ever, why even bother with returns so low and such a great risk.

I would blow Dane Cook posted:

https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2023/03/uncharted-waters-as-hyperinflation-hits-rental-market/

I would blow Dane Cook posted:

I was under the impression that immigrants live in houses too?

I would blow Dane Cook posted:

What? Macrobusiness has been pretty consistent on this stuff for as long as i've been reading it.

Guardian AU posted:

Department withheld key documents from watchdog that flagged potential illegality of robodebt

The department responsible for implementing the robodebt scheme withheld key documents flagging its potential illegality from an independent watchdog investigating the program, a royal commission has been told.

The commission is seeking to understand the role of the commonwealth ombudsman, whose 2017 report identified a number of flaws in the scheme but stopped short of declaring the “income averaging” debt calculation process unlawful. While giving evidence, the senior assistant ombudsman, Louise Macleod, was shown multiple documents, including emails flagging the scheme was potentially illegal, that she had never seen before.

Cartoon posted:

Already obsolete. Lol.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/oct/05/will-all-submarines-even-nuclear-ones-be-obsolete-and-visible-by-2040

We won't get to see the TOP SECRET minister level breifings that have led to this enormously extravagent spend, but they really, really need to address this issue in some significant detail or it will be money pissed up the wall. It is so foreseeable that you might note that Guardian article is from 2021. And lets not mention our disposal of the associated Nuclear waste, a problem that has been 'considered' by not worrying about it until we actually get some (waste) in 2050. Perhaps the hope is that this will also be subject to inevitable delays so we don't have to come up with a solution for a bit longer. Or maybe we can equivocate about the sovereignty of the waste and tell the yanks/poms it's their problem.

crepeface posted:

dumb oval office

Ranter posted:

A spectre is haunting Asia. The spectre of dumb cunts.

Pleasant Friend posted:

Paul Keating was Australia's Tony Blair and stanning for him because he makes some lovely anti-american remarks is this thread showing its full rear end.

Guardian Australian posted:

“Australia has a productivity problem,” Chalmers will tell the event, according to advance remarks circulated by his office.
...
He will tell the Ceda event that national income would have been $4,600 higher in 2020 if productivity had just kept pace with the 60-year average. “If we stay stuck on the current course, the PC projects future incomes will be 40% lower and the working week 5% longer,” Chalmers will say.

Budzilla posted:

I would say it is too "light"

I think you should look around and see that 5th generation fighters (and all modern military products for that matter) for everyone have been a huge resource drain.

What defensive posture would you suggest? Keating isn't taking into account expansionist policies pursued by China and this will alienate Australia if we follow his advice. Yeah, Australia has had lovely foreign policy(especially E.Timor) in the past but that doesn't mean much larger countries can't be worse than us.

Recoome posted:

Also [SERIOUS] question here, how does the government expect anyone with a HECS debt to pay off the loan with the 2023 indexation looking like 7.19%? The increase for me will be about 7k this year which means I'm effectively dead in the water as that is slightly more than I contribute in a year.

Budzilla posted:

Australia and China aren't the only countries in the world and if there is a war between the two you can be sure as poo poo others will be involved.

EoinCannon posted:

It's pretty good that the terfs are being publicly lumped in with the Nazis and a liberal politician (who is now facing an expulsion vote) in Victoria.

freebooter posted:

The difference is that only one of these countries' governments will permit you to publish a book, a newspaper article or even a Twitter post about its historical and ongoing atrocities.

Because (see above) the US is a free country that shares our liberal values, while China is a totalitarian dictatorship.

If the US and China go to war and the US loses - and assuming this outcome somehow avoids a nuclear holocaust anyway - the future is going to become bleaker for Australia irrespective of whether we have or have not "antagonised" China by picking the other side in a conflict. That's the same reason Japan, South Korea and many countries in SE Asia are also strengthening ties with the US, and the same reason Poland and the Baltics are the most vocal European supporters of Ukraine.

Budzilla posted:

Read the Wikileaks file I linked a few days ago, it explains Australia's problems of security ties vs economic ties. While it does not explain everything and if you can't be bothered to read it I will summarise. China sells a lot of stuff to the world including the US but Australia is one of the few countries with a trade surplus with China. However world shipping is secured by the US and its massive navy so we need them to keep the shipping lanes open or if they decide to close shipping lanes to China then Australia and China will both be hosed. China is causing problems in the SCS and its fishing fleet doing illegal fishing in territorial waters of other countries, this is pissing off everyone and is causing them to turn to the US security umbrella. If the US decides or is persuaded by other countries to do "something" and we are all in with China for security we won't have a say to ask the US to keep our interests in mind.

freebooter posted:

Having a big "friend" which is also a totalitarian dictatorship would not bode well for Australia's long-term future. But you obviously aren't going to agree with that line of thinking if you also believe America is only marginally better than China.

Non Compos Mentis posted:

https://twitter.com/cameronwilson/status/1638374519969832960?t=pSAtg6ux81BLTYj9ijPMEQ&s=19

Wheres that gif

freebooter posted:

Yes to all three except working. I've worked in South Korea and the UK but nowhere else (except Aus obviously).

In terms of personal safety I feel safer e.g. walking down the street in China (and also pretty much anywhere else in East Asia) than in the US.

In terms of feeling safe from the government, or picking a country to raise my children in while imagining what that country might look like by 2040 or 2050, America by a country mile. (And Australia above America by another country mile).

I think it's telling that you rattle off the Howard Zinn view of America without a direct comparison to China. Do you think police in China are "accountable"? Do think China doesn't have a problem with lead in the water and poison in the air? Do you think the factory and sweatshop workers of China aren't also "enslaved to capital"?

The difference - as I said earlier - is that we can have this very debate on a website forum hosted in the United States. We wouldn't be able to in China.

I would blow Dane Cook posted:

What if Dom's wife dies but she becomes part of Unit 1 and Dom gets caught using taxpayer money on the human instrumentality project?

freebooter posted:

This is just sheer whataboutism. Everything is always a matter of degrees, but the "degrees" in question here are basically at opposite ends of the scale. The US ranks 42nd in the Press Freedom ranking, while China is an abysmal 175th (almost dead last). The US is not disappearing booksellers or shutting down newspapers or routinely censoring vast swathes of the internet. The idea that there's any equivalency whatsoever between the US and China when it comes to freedom of speech (or lack thereof) is farcical.

freebooter posted:

Because (see above) the US is a free country that shares our liberal values, while China is a totalitarian dictatorship.

freebooter posted:

Telling the Hong Kong protesters about how we have it pretty bad too because of that awful Murdoch fella

hooman posted:

Which would you pick, no healthcare or no press freedom?

Jezza of OZPOS posted:

we just need a forum for arguing about which country is worse so the worst posters from dnd and the worst posters from cspam don't poo poo up every thread in both forums with it

freebooter posted:

I would pick press freedom/freedom of speech, because at least then you can agitate for healthcare. I would rank it above all other freedoms for the same reason.

Now in turn, please answer in which country you'd prefer to:

- marry a member of the same sex
- practice whichever religion you like
- apply for and be granted a passport without restrictions
- move to another province or city without losing access to public services
- write a letter to the editor of a newspaper denouncing the government
- Read Wikipedia

freebooter posted:

Because (see above) the US is a free country that shares our liberal values