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Ceramic Shot posted:Yeah, that's great. During an "office hours" session on Discord, David Holz (MJ CEO) talked a bit about Midjourney as an "imagination augmenter" rather than a wholesale replacement for imagination/creativity, which I like. Limited AI that aids in brainstorming is the sweet spot for me in terms of how I enjoy using it and seeing others use it. For me my main use case for AI outside of D&D content generation/brainstorming would be for generating my references that I'd give to an artist for concept art/character designs; basically instead of spending 24 hours scrolling through pinterest for references (the problem being there's too many good references, and I end up with 100 pinterest tabs open that takes forever to resolve) I can just specify maybe the exact elements I'm interested in that a human artist can build on top of.
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# ¿ Jan 4, 2023 17:54 |
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# ¿ May 22, 2024 15:59 |
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Megazver posted:Tried to generate a functional-looking mace that has a caduceus-like design for its head, perhaps with the caduceus motif engraved on its head, and the AIs want NONE of my bullshit. Gotta admit, when the AI strikes true, it really strikes. At a minimum, you got what could be a really good Coat of Arms or like a Scepter/Crown Jewels for a fantasy kingdom.
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# ¿ Jan 4, 2023 18:15 |
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Megazver posted:The SD D&D model's creator released a new version and also said he had to pull the kobolds out of it, because they broke it, and I made this for him: Hahaha I love this!
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# ¿ Jan 6, 2023 17:16 |
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Anyone got any ideas as to how's the best way to go about generating battlemaps/building maps? I mainly want to generate the general idea to work off of as reference to make myself in CSP but making the general basic layout of a map, whether it's a building, town, or some random outdoor terrain is a little harder to conceptualize beyond vague ideas.
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# ¿ Feb 24, 2023 21:29 |
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Yeah I think its understandable to ban AI art until a better means of ascertaining the sourcing of the dataset at a minimum can be determined. The thing is I don't think its quite as stark a choice of either "AI art" or "stock photos" I think with enough effort you could kit bash something, or find affordable artists. Its just much harder and takes admittedly a lot of effort and false starts. Like you could use AI art to create a prototype for your images and then figure out free but high effort ways of representing it. Blender + Free/Cheap (from gumroad/flippednormals etc) 3D Models + Post Processing effects might get you part of the way there? Also gpose in FFXIV with shaders like GShade and so on. I think the creative effort is transformative enough that with processing and photo editing should pass legal muster to let you publish it as photos? The distinction between using 3D editing software and 3D map generation tools to create a backdrop that you take screenshots with post processing effects (especially if you can get access to a depth buffer) and AI Art to my mind isn't very large as you're still using "tools" but at least might get people close to what they want and be publishable? Maybe someone needs to start cranking out tutorials and guides. Buffer posted:Lowering the floor is part of the problem if you're a publisher. Thanks! I think the main thing an AI battlemap generator would be good for though is specifying features not within the scope of more traditional procedural map generators. "Make me a cave system with a tower somewhere" and see what happens and if I like the result, keep it. While if I have that idea I could generate a cave map with one of the above tools and kitbash it with a tower base room in it somewhere and fiddle with it, but that's a lot more emotional and creative labour for a map that might not get used. Raenir Salazar fucked around with this message at 17:07 on Mar 2, 2023 |
# ¿ Mar 2, 2023 17:02 |
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I asked the AI to create an ability thematic for a character for ate the corpse of a dead god and the AI keeps me that this is a bad thing to do in the real world.
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# ¿ Mar 13, 2023 22:16 |
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I think musing or having questions is fine, but a more indepth discussion should probably happen in a dedicated thread in D&D because this thread should be mainly about how to have fun with the AI to do neat things and report back. As a side note, I have found the limits of the chat ai, it cannot draw ascii art.
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# ¿ Mar 17, 2023 16:30 |
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Is there a way to set up chatgpt to keep memory local to your computer so it can remember your convos? Like a web browser?
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# ¿ Mar 20, 2023 15:22 |
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There are some things I'll pay for, I'll absolutely pay for art; and I have spent a very long time getting very good at it to get exactly what I want from the artist for the money I'm spending. Commissioning art is hard, and it takes effort, knowledge and skill, particularly people skills and basic social interaction honestly beyond most There's real difficulty and is such a fraught process I'm really not surprised its catching on as much as it is. Why spend the emotional labour AND money commissioning art when AI is just so much easier? There are some similarities to arguments I think that to some extent this is a problem of distribution/convenience. People trying to commission art have no idea how to do it and are going to very easily get frustrated with poor results and flock to the AI because it at least seems like it gets them what they want. Using ChaptGPT demonstrates this. I've thought of paying someone to help me flesh out/co-write a D&D campaign, to take my broad ideas and transform them into something crunchy; but googling and going through various subreddits I made no progress; ChatGPT is free, is basically 2 clicks away, doesn't judge, doesn't argue, won't be anything other than polite and helpful. And is also way more likely to understand and make sense of what you're trying to say with minimal handholding. I would never publish anything written with it, I'd still hire someone to look what I put together using the AI over and rewrite it, but the AI will still save me a lot of time and would have massively helped me think through things and clarify what my vision even is. Its hard to find a human you can trust to do the same. Back to art, I wouldn't ever use AI Art in anything resembling commercial use, but my D&D campaign with friends to fill in some npc portraits? Yeah I might do that if Pinterest wasn't at this moment more convenient for me. And yeah I might see a use case for the Art AI to iterate on references which I then give to the artist who I'm still paying, what the AI Art did was help me clarify what I want so I can more carefully choose when and where to spend my limited budget. Although this is mainly about character concept art and designs; which takes up pretty much my entire budget. Environments might be a different story; albeit if and when I get around to needing environments I'll try what I can, like using the AI to generate ideas which I then kitbash together using paid/free assets in Blender. That sort of use seems like a reasonable compromise to me for a potentially commercial product, what the customer sees is not made by AI, but I am absolutely going to do my best to save money up until the point of what the finished asset/scene/product is that does get made by a human's hand.
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# ¿ Mar 25, 2023 04:01 |
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Hey I pay lots of people!
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# ¿ Mar 27, 2023 05:12 |
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drat I like that design.
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# ¿ Mar 29, 2023 21:19 |
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I struggled to figure out how to fix a macro I found online for FoundryVTT and ChatGPT fixed me right up in seconds.
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# ¿ Mar 31, 2023 02:15 |
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Leperflesh posted:Well, I have to admit I'm a little surprised. I'm generally posting in favor of keeping this thread and challenging the arguments against use of AI art and text in the feedback thread, but if folks here feel like it's a lost argument anyway, I don't know what I'm supposed to do really. I appreciate what you're doing and don't think it's a lost cause. I feel like the position of being a moderate is to strike the balance in the community for there being a space for discussion of something that's new and likely going to have far reaching effects and accommodating those who have valid criticisms and would like to see less of it. I think it's worth while to try to strike that balance and to de-escalate some of the rhetoric.
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# ¿ Jun 9, 2023 15:26 |
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I think we're being a little overly harsh here towards Leperflesh who is giving it a good try to make this a fair discussion of both sides. Like some of the arguments coming out from some of us aren't that great and I'm not surprised if they aren't convincing. Some of the "anti ai" people being overly hostile could be less hostile but we could also be a bit better in how we present the hobby too.
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# ¿ Jun 9, 2023 16:11 |
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I think it's a valid concern that if we do have a rule that flat bans ai art outside of containment threads, we'll just get this sort of escalating witch hunt sort of culture of hostility and accusations and litigation. I think it'd be better if it was more of a gentlemanly agreement where the expectation is low effort ai content is not posted, you won't be asked about the ai art if you don't mention it as long as the art or content in question is of a transformative nature that enhances the post in some holistic way. Have like a 500 word after action report how a session went and a couple of AI portraits were used? They're a minimal aspect of the post and shouldn't be a problem or cause litigation, probe the trouble makers and shut stirrers. Someone just dropping a bunch of AI images or text in the chat threat apropos of nothing? That can be hit, sure. Seems like the contention is around ai art appearing outside of specified threads and my opinion is it should be allowed within reason but I guess push back or criticism can be expected but proportional to its use I feel, like the ethics of commercial ai art is a lot more sketch in my opinion and there's more likelyness of decreasing harm in engaging in that conversation with that than with individual private use hobbyists.
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# ¿ Jun 9, 2023 16:52 |
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Somewhere a Warhammer exec cries whenever someone 3D prints a mini.
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# ¿ Jun 9, 2023 18:43 |
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Megazver posted:Why, because the OP got banned? I don't feel like that's necessary. A new thread for a refresh seems like a good idea if at a minimum because a different OP can be edited with new links, info, tutorials and so on and be more responsive to whats happening in the thread. I think the "helldumping" is a bit overblown.
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# ¿ Jun 10, 2023 17:09 |
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If I'm reading Leperflesh correctly they're just asking for like a section to just mention that basically there is a debate, inform people of what the debate is, maybe list of points on either side, for the purpose of informing newcomers what the issues are and they should do their own research and reach their own conclusions rather than having that discussion in the thread. And as mentioned above the disclaimer section can also always point to the D&D thread. Primarily so that if someone enters the thread with say, the good intentioned idea of trying to inform people in the thread, "Hey guys aren't you aware there's problems with AI?" we can point to the OP and say "Heya, we're all aware, thanks." Some kind of disclaiming around a controversial new technology that does have some legitimate issues with it does seem reasonable to me. The entire intent seems to me to have the good intentions of the thread's participants at heart. I'd offer to help right the OP but I actually don't know very much about it as I haven't really dabbled with AI myself, I slapped some prompts into DALLE once, waiting an hour and got something completely unusable and now I'm just an orphan child staring inside a shop window sighing at what could have been. I could try to slap something together copying from Rutibex's post, gurragadon's, and so on and see where that gets us. But yeah I'd like to repeat though what I've been saying in the feedback thread that I am concerned that if the AI thread becomes the containment thread for all AI posting you're just tossing the can down the sidewalk. I feel like what that says is it endorses the position that anyone using AI is doing something morally wrong; and that's kinda lovely. I strongly urge that the purpose of the thread is where "AI chat" can go, for people to discuss using and how to use the technology, with looser rules on what counters as effortful content; but outside the thread there is not a total ban on ALL AI posting, only AI posting that is low effort; and presumably meta discussion around AI which can go to D&D. That would in my opinion the most fair way of handling this.
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# ¿ Jun 11, 2023 15:46 |
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reignonyourparade posted:Rather than "here is a bunch of self-flagellation in the OP to show we are sufficiently contrite about how absolutely completely terrible the subject of the thread is" perhaps the strict limits on coming into the thread to attack people could take the form of a simple "don't poo poo up the thread." I don't really think that's the intent at all and don't think it'd sound that way. Being like, "Look, I know guns are dangerous, but they're really interesting pieces of engineering, fun to go pew at tin cans, and have neat historical value" isn't anywhere near akin to self-flagellation. We can at the very least acknowledge that there are reasons to be concerned, acknowledging them doesn't mean needing to feel bad, its being emphatic.
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# ¿ Jun 11, 2023 21:21 |
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Leperflesh posted:What about something like: I think the first point should be rephrased to be something like that, "by posting in this thread you're agreeing that this thread isn't about confronting people for utilizing generative AI tools." Phrasing as "these people are comfortable with what they're doing" has implications of "They knew the risks. " I think the second point should be removed and changed into something like "Here's a list of tools that claim to be trained on content in the public domain, give them a try if that is something you'd be more comfortable with given the above mentioned concerns." Point of fact this thread already had a disclaimer that was probably pretty good? "4) Don't debate AI image ethics: While it's important to consider the ethical implications of AI, this thread should focus on the practical use of AI tools for roleplaying." Bolding me. So we should probably incorporate something like that, I'd rephrase as "this thread is focused on the practical use of generative AI tools for roleplaying games." Otherwise they're generally fine.
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# ¿ Jun 12, 2023 01:13 |
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Yeah seriously the mods are putting in a lot of effort to give the thread and us a fair shake, lets be less a bunch of wet blankets please, it isn't productive.
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# ¿ Jun 12, 2023 04:13 |
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Megazver posted:I checked out the new rules. The post with the AI discussion rules seems fine. My eyes are twitching here a little as you have no idea how frustrating it is sometimes to try to track down a source, especially from random nightcore videos on youtube, and the source is no where to be found. Leperflesh posted:I've rebooted the feedback thread and added new rules to the TG rules thread which Anti is just seeing, so she might want to modify them or something. Since no one else has volunteered I'll see what I can do, and on theme I'll liberally borrow from the previous OP.
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# ¿ Jun 13, 2023 00:11 |
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Yeah if anyone with any suggestions not including in the original OP, that'd be very useful.
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# ¿ Jun 13, 2023 00:33 |
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WIP new OP:quote:AI tools can be a great resource for generating new content for traditional games like Dungeons and Dragons and Magic the Gathering and other TTPRGs. These tools can help you come up with new spells, feats, magic cards, and more, quickly and easily. Below is a list of tools that might be useful, be aware that there is a debate regarding the ethicacy of their training data, and the broader societal economic effects. To learn more you can go to the AI Debate thread in D&D. And to learn more about the technology behind AI like Machine Learning you can go to the Caverns of Cobol thread here.
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# ¿ Jun 13, 2023 03:10 |
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I'm doing my morning workout right now and then got some work but I'll try to swing by to help out with your questions kwegi about the use cases for ai in trad gaming in a bit.
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# ¿ Jun 13, 2023 13:58 |
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KwegiboHB posted:Working with Raenir Salazar now. I only work with Stable Diffusion and image generation but follow all of this closely so I know of and can provide links to a large number of different tools. Sadly I don't play Trad Games so I don't know what will fit best here. It does sound like fun to play it's just going to be quite awhile until I have enough free time again. Heya thanks for stopping by, I have some time to reply properly now. I don't know what exactly what every use case is but I imagine the general breakdown is: 1. Art for games. Which can be battlemaps, backgrounds/backdrops, Character art, portraits. 2. Music for battle music, ambience, etc. 3. Voices perhaps, for voiced NPCs/enemies/creatures. 4. 3D models maybe either for making mini's, or figures, or environments for Virtual tabletops that support 3D assets. Usually I expect the typical use case is people are playing online via either a game client virtual tabletop where you can upload assets or like a web browser based virtual tabletop which also allows for uploaded assets but maybe the performance limits are different? I know Foundry supports images, gifs, music files, and so on. So a DM might want to upload PNGs/Jpgs for maps; pictures for NPC art, players might also upload character art; I know in heavily homebrew games I'm customizing my custom abilities with random appropriate anime art. The DM might also be interested in uploading voice files, music, etc. Maybe people also play in person in which case I imagine any generated art or content is for sharing in like discord or to show via your phone etc. Text generation can be useful; the DM for making custom spells, abilities, backstories, entire quest chains, for brainstorming the story, what stores/shops/quests/characters a given location might have; players might want a little help in creating and fleshing out their backstory and so on. So for example, being able to feed to the AI, "these kobolds have these goals and motivations and some character traits, how do they react to the PC's questions?" and then for it to give a valid response. It could also be interesting to know which tools support a human touch, like for art uploading a sketch to help guide the AI and so on.
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# ¿ Jun 13, 2023 19:44 |
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Doctor Zero posted:The discussion has gone around a bit so I lost track: is it okay for someone to start a forums RPG thread and state that AI asset use is OK and that the GM will be using it as well? I am NOT volunteering to do this, it was a good point brought up in the other thread, and I never saw a direct answer (it's probably there and I just missed it). I think you posted this on the wrong thread, this is the current ai chat thread, the other thread is the feedback thread.
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# ¿ Jun 14, 2023 17:32 |
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Leperflesh posted:TG hosts both discussion threads (in TG proper) and game threads (in TGR). Typically you post a recruit thread in TGR, and list the game as recruiting in the recruitment thread, unless you already have players set up. Or you may just announce a game thread, like for a CYOA. Then interested people join up and you run your game in TGR. So, I think this crosses over to something I was trying to point out, that usually for the purpose of transparency and ethics, people would like to be informed about these things. Hence why I suggested that people should be allowed to post if something is AI, because people have a presumed right to be informed, much like warning labels on food. As an example, there's a 3rd party supplement for D&D 5e which I won't name, but they they claimed in their patreon update that the latest supplement has lovingly handcrafted art. I went and bought it and a majority of the art was obviously AI generated. No where in the product page or their patreon post was this mentioned, now I don't mind hypothetically paying money for this supplement even if it has AI, but I sure as hell am annoyed that they weren't upfront. I sent them a message but no response. Its about transparency and I feel like this should be obvious, it isn't about it being a selling point, but it is a valid thing to list as a disclaimer.
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# ¿ Jun 14, 2023 18:38 |
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To be clear I'm mainly just providing additional context and an explanation to OPs question, that a DM probably reasonably will want to be upfront about their game containing AI assets so potential players who might have an issue with it can make an informed decision to not join that game.
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# ¿ Jun 14, 2023 19:29 |
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I was a bit busy the past week, but I'll be going over the past couple of pages and try to revise the WIP op.
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# ¿ Jun 17, 2023 21:26 |
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WIP new OP V2:quote:AI tools can be a great resource for generating new content for traditional games like Dungeons and Dragons and Magic the Gathering and other TTPRGs. These tools can help you come up with new spells, feats, magic cards, and more, quickly and easily. Below is a list of tools that might be useful, be aware that there is a debate regarding the ethicacy of their training data, and the broader societal economic effects. To learn more you can go to the AI Debate thread in D&D. And to learn more about the technology behind AI like Machine Learning you can go to the Caverns of Cobol thread here. The following I think might be too wordy for an OP, so I'd add it to a second and/or third reserved post. quote:
Aside from Da Actual Rules we're waiting on Leperflesh and Anti for; anyone have any thoughts or feedback or suggestions on how to maybe rewrite some sections to be shorter? One thing maybe we can do is have the OP be a brieifer summary of the options out-there; and then everyone can post their own indepth guides that the OP can link to instead of posting everything in the beginning?
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# ¿ Jun 17, 2023 21:56 |
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Humbug Scoolbus posted:For the maps, midjourney kicks out really good battlemaps actually since v4. Yessssss...... Humbug Scoolbus posted:I listed the prompt I used for that village YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEES!!!!!!!! Leperflesh posted:Hey guys, I've been sick and basically checked out for a week, but I'm poking around now. How's a new OP going? I'd really love to get the stink of Rutibex off of this thread. I was hoping to get some more feedback and make one more pass at the OP. If anyone can post the thread maybe I will? Anyone strongly want to be the one who posts it?
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# ¿ Jul 4, 2023 23:51 |
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I've mentioned it before but I commission a lot of art, and I've probably spent thousands of dollars on concept art. And a fairly large chunk of that money spent ultimately didn't result in a design I was wholly satisfied with. Usually while the result was probably quite good in a vacuum didn't fit the idea I had in mind. Something usually the characters proportion and thus their age would feel off, proportions are my bug bear where it is the most request thing artists I've commissioned give me wildly inconsistent results with. Now, some caveats, sometimes this was to be expected, I often stumble across a amateur artist account on reddit or Twitter and they aren't actively doing communications but I wanna see what they do, so I contact them and ask if they wanna do a commission and sometimes they agree and then sometimes I get something pretty good and sometimes I don't. I expect the fact that this is a slot machine as I'm trying to see if I can find an uncut diamond in the rough. The other thing I think drives most of the problems with clients and why so many of them especially in the lower budget range to try ai is because the act of commissioning is also an art. It takes experience to know what sort of references, what sort of description, and how to layout them in such a way to get what you want. It takes a huge time investment of finding and downloading loads of references to figure out how to convey the kind of composite you want the artist to interpret. This whole process to do correctly and reliably sounds a lot like using the ai doesn't it? Finding thousands of references and then compositing them with someone else's spin and skill. It took me like three years and 50,000$ to learn how to best create reference sheets that are reliable, and even then I still have problems, one of my regular artists has literally forgotten how to draw their older style! All the references in the world can't help me there if their hands don't work the same way as it did a year ago! And this of course doesn't cover the usual pitfalls, of commissioning an artist and them disappearing (happened to me for both small and large 250$+ commissions), and artists who sometimes just refuse to do draw what you want despite clear references and refuse to revise it or give wips. And then there's the accessibility issues if your neuro divergent, some of us are shy and really hate having to ask an artist who while clearly is advertising commissions, aren't displaying their prices. Because if it's wildly out of my range, I will feel bad having to say, "ah sorry, my budget isn't sufficient at this time." I'm definitely not going to try to bargain with them either, that feels very rude. Then sometimes there's artists who have a whole Google form you need to fill out first before they give you an estimate which if its not in your range we'll that's a lot of time spent for nothing when they could've just had a clear price sheet with examples to act as a filter. Basically it's a communication and convenience issue where both clients/commissioners and artists have a lot in general they could do to improve the overall experience so more people are satisfied in order to reduce the appeal of AI. Anyways, I had a busy couple of days, today after work ill do one last pass at the op and then pm leper.
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# ¿ Jul 14, 2023 14:26 |
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I gave another pass at the OP 2.0, the guides and some of the other stuff people posted I think should probably just be reposted whenever we make a new thread.quote:AI tools can be a great resource for generating new content for traditional games like Dungeons and Dragons and Magic the Gathering and other TTPRGs. These tools can help you come up with new spells, feats, magic cards, and more, quickly and easily. Below is a list of tools that might be useful, be aware that there is a debate regarding the ethicacy of their training data, and the broader societal economic effects. To learn more you can go to the AI Debate thread in D&D. And to learn more about the technology behind AI like Machine Learning you can go to the Caverns of Cobol thread here. If anyone has written any neat write ups or more specific guides, if you can make a link to the post I can add it to the Guides section. I'll wait a couple of days and then DM Leper for guidance on whether they should post it, or if I could, or if someone else wants to etc.
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# ¿ Jul 21, 2023 01:32 |
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The Eyes Have It posted:Looks great but I noticed the VN Style Cutscenes! section is missing its images. Weird it seems to work fine on my end, anyone else can confirm?
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# ¿ Jul 22, 2023 02:34 |
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Is there a way for those battlemaps to specify like a DPI so the grid from Foundry can overlap?
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# ¿ Jul 30, 2023 13:52 |
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Humbug Scoolbus posted:Throw them into irFanview and adjust the DPI there Is this a thing!? Maybe it will let me fix any random battlemap I find without a displayed dpi?
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# ¿ Jul 30, 2023 16:59 |
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# ¿ May 22, 2024 15:59 |
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Fuzz posted:Just posting here so I can link said post in another thread and not get probated yet again: I'm about to post a new OP to refresh the thread, but Fuzz any chance can you send me working links from your post here? e to add: New thread here! Raenir Salazar fucked around with this message at 23:57 on Sep 6, 2023 |
# ¿ Sep 6, 2023 23:22 |