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Seth Pecksniff posted:I mean if they're already threatening to lay hands on each other over a speaker's vote I can't imagine what will happen when votes of consequence come around The thought is that Mccarthy, snake that he is, most likely stole Rogers position on the armed forces committee to give to that creepster Gaetz* or someone else in his anti american anti government faction. Doesn't say much about actual votes, but holy poo poo did they throw at least one otherwise reliable member of the establishment under the bus to get Mccarthy in. *Color me shocked that the guy who was under investigation for sex trafficking doesn't want the US government to exist in a functional capacity.
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Jan 7, 2023 14:54
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| # ¿ May 12, 2024 14:05 |
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Seth Pecksniff posted:If that's the case this is going to be absolutely ugly Not entirely certain it will be, but maybe, yeah. The big thing is whether or not Rogers and other similar folks get walked over and can't retaliate, whether Mccarthy can keep the establishment in line to keep his career advancing in spite of it loving over the establishment in favor of an increasingly dangerous and predatory (and in the case of LGBT minorities outright genocidal) wing of his party that are completely bonkers, and how lunatic the right wingers are going to be (this is almost certainly a "very loving crazy" fwiw). From the current looks of it Mccarthy's forward movement in his career might be done after this term however, barring nothing changing. And good riddance, given he's one of the reasons why the GOP keeps doubling down into bigotry and Fox News type batshit insanity. Dude made his bargain with these lunatics way back when and now he's paying for it. Also, selling your own members out to keep a sliver of power when the other side is made up of anti american nutbags and viciously genocidal christian nutbags is not a good look on any side. So who knows what things are like behind closed doors at the moment. The desire to keep getting more power (which is really the only thing binding the GOP together at this point) might overcome all of that and let this get sweeped under the table though. Archonex fucked around with this message at 15:46 on Jan 7, 2023 |
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Jan 7, 2023 15:42
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Pendragon posted:This is what I'm trying to figure out: HOW is he keeping the rest in line? What's the benefit to supporting McCarthy for the "true" Republicans? I'm not certain, but just for starters I'd check the party donors and where the money is going. If McCarthy is like Pelosi and has direct control of the purse strings (or just influence over it) then he has a certain amount of carte blanche to abuse his power so long as the donors back him up. And they will, obviously, since there's a lot of multi millionaire and billionaire anti-US types that are mad they can't disregard regulations/labor laws/civil rights/not hurt minorities/whatever that donate in large sums to the GOP. Groups like the Federalist society are somewhat infamous for being lovely bad actors that try to sabotage things. In fact, that example is notable since once of their VP's is a chairman or something like that for the Heritage Foundation, an equally infamous christian hate group that is one of about three or four primary writers of legislation that targets minorities (transgender people as of late, since they can't go after gay people anymore or black people before that) to get the vote out for Republican politicians. However, another thing to consider is that a good chunk of the donor class for the GOP is all in on the crazy train too, seeing anything past 1950's civil repression as being too loving "woke" for their liking. Or sometimes they (Like Peter Thiel.) are just straight up anti-democratic and want an autocracy or something crazy like that. So it's a good place to check first, though i'm not certain what the current sites are that try to track all the above and especially below board money that goes into the Republicans. Edit: In addition to that the establishment GOP is scared shitless of Fox News and other right wing fake news outlets similar to them, since they're a key part of them maintaining their dominance over the narratives that keep their base in line in voting. So there's an element of fear of bucking the status quo of lies and exploitation on that end too by pushing back against the crazy for fear of being the next person to be made an example of by losing your seat come the next election. Of course, this is a stupid thing to fear, since you can't reason with a mob of rabid regressive reactionaries. They'll always sight down on a target to escalate onto until someone beats them into submission by force (be it political, social, or physical), and no matter how hard you try even allies of them (be it through genuine maliciousness towards others or opportunism) can be targeted with the right media impetus to justify it. Hell, McCarthy barely even criticized Trump for most of his term or the radical republican extremists overtaking the party bit by bit and look what's happening to him now. His "crime" is mostly just being in power when there was an expectation of the government getting rid of all of the dirty (insert racist/bigoted/phobic slur here) only for it to obviously not happen since whatever batshit insane conspiracy theory tier horseshit from the far right that spawned this expectation can't be addressed without genocide or crimes against the people occurring since the far right's complaints aren't things that actually exist in reality. Archonex fucked around with this message at 16:51 on Jan 7, 2023 |
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Jan 7, 2023 16:38
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Pendragon posted:Thanks for the perspectives. This has been puzzling me. Thing is, McCarthy isn't being attacked because of the "swamp". He's being attacked because he's an obstacle to an even more right wing and extremist group's desire for more power; whom have noticed that the unstable vicissitudes of the base's batshit insanity has swung around to giving them a casus belli to take a swing at the party for their own gain. Or to put it in a more clear way, the crazies amongst the base have arbitrarily decided that McCarthy must suffer for his "failures" (which don't really exist, again, since what incites them is all made up bullshit that they wanted him and those like him to do to those in a weaker position than them). That he does not submit to their will (Which basically just boils down to "suffer and die". So i'm not really faulting him for this since there's no bottom to debasing himself that would appease most of those types) means to them that he's bought and paid for by [insert boogieman of the week here], a traitor, etc, etc. This is the perfect situation for anyone, politician or donor, to try and force the party into even further right leaning extremism by being spoilers for the party establishment's agenda, which would cease* in exchange for concessions to go further to the right or embolden the capabilities of the suicide caucus types as they've negotiated for. In fact, McCarthy's corruption in favor of extremist right wingers is part of why he enjoyed a relative lack of criticism as speaker. It's just that now an even worse group has decided he's outlived his usefulness to them now that they have enough members to force the party even further to the right towards (given the actions of states like Florida and Texas quite possibly murderous) extremism. Turns out that trusting a bunch of extremists in a party of shifty motherfuckers overall is a bad play! As for the establishment? Well, they're the ones getting hosed over. It remains to be seen if they'll just roll over and take this or not. Roger's reaction, if largely held, suggests no. However the whole con the GOP pushes on the base is liable to fall apart if the party splits too openly, so maybe this will just get swept under the rug. TL;DR: Stop assuming that the Republicans are ever arguing in good faith and take a more cynical realpolitik look to it and the whole scenario makes a frightening amount of sense. * Note that this is hilariously unlikely. If there's one thing you can count on with the Republicans it's that they'll plant a knife in your back at the slightest chance to gently caress you over. Archonex fucked around with this message at 17:27 on Jan 7, 2023 |
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Jan 7, 2023 17:09
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Honestly, the establishment R's should just stonewall and go back on any agreement with Gaetz now that the speaker is decided. The guy is as slimey as they come and will absolutely not honor any agreements that require him to do something so there's no real reason to think that he isn't the Republican equivalent of a Manchin or Sinema. This would also be the most hilarious outcome too since Gaetz is way overdue in getting screwed over for his bullshit. Dude would tantrum hard. Archonex fucked around with this message at 20:35 on Jan 7, 2023 |
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Jan 7, 2023 20:28
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| # ¿ May 12, 2024 14:05 |
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parthenocarpy posted:Presumably this would be another thing they just axe? Have they even got these rules set in stone yet because lol at that going through in a party as power hungry as the Republicans. The debt ceiling stuff is legit terrifying though given how crazy the Republicans are nowadays. We know what happens when a country defaults on it's debt due to historical examples and it's loving ugly. Like, depending on how bad things go it's "you're better off emigrating than waiting for the country and your life in it to recover" levels of ugly. Just as a recent example that I can recall: Mexico did it and it put them into a massive slump that they're still feeling the effects of. For America to do that it'd be even worse. We're looking at the collapse of the global economy in the short term, the extremely likely possibility that the US dollar is no longer considered a primary standard of currency and trade (which means losing all the privileges that the US takes for granted that come with it), and generally just utter chaos and at the absolute worst possibly great depression levels of goods being unaffordable leading to potential starvation depending on how bad the whole situation is handled and what sort of rebound happens. It'd be like Brexit but on steroids, only with all the stops that would keep the economy from going into the shitter on a historic level yanked out by financial interests fleeing overseas with their monetary assets. Which means that feckless monsters like Gaetz are of course going to try and rip the country to shreds because of their insane and bigoted views. Archonex fucked around with this message at 21:11 on Jan 7, 2023 |
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Jan 7, 2023 20:57
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