Ukraine War: Berth El Buk

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(Thread IKs: weg, Toxic Mental)

Mr Teatime: Apr 7, 2009

armpit_enjoyer posted:

� I would recommend talking about these people with caution. To avoid conflict with yourself.

Sadly too long for a thread title.

# ¿ Mar 6, 2023 14:44

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# ¿ May 14, 2024 12:21

Mr Teatime: Apr 7, 2009

Can you imagine a world without Boyars?

# ¿ Mar 6, 2023 16:21

Mr Teatime: Apr 7, 2009

Currently starting Antony Beevors Russia: Revolution and Civil War, 1917�1921 which is definitely an interesting read given the current situation. Anybody want to explain to me how he�s a decadent biased Anglo and everything in the book is wrong?

# ¿ Mar 7, 2023 03:13

Mr Teatime: Apr 7, 2009

Somewhat? It�s pretty interesting reading about Ukrainian attempts to break away from the empire during the chaos of the revolution, it gives a bit of context to modern events and viewpoints.

# ¿ Mar 7, 2023 03:18

Mr Teatime: Apr 7, 2009

If was being flippant it�s only because I�d seen a lot of pushback against some of Beevors stuff from some circles, particularly after his descriptions of the conduct of soviet soldiers in Germany in �Berlin�. I like his stuff but I�m still open to hearing criticism of him.

# ¿ Mar 7, 2023 03:31

Mr Teatime: Apr 7, 2009

I have little sympathy for recent transplant chud rear end nationalists beating the �crimea is Russian clay� drum, however colonialism leaves a hosed up hard to unpick legacy and despite my overall sympathies laying with Ukraine I don�t know if Crimea is going to be an easily solved issue barring a total Russian military collapse.

# ¿ Mar 7, 2023 07:46

Mr Teatime: Apr 7, 2009

The talk of Russian tank brigades advancing in columns and getting bogged down over and over dredged up a memory of this article I read many years ago.

https://20thcenturywargaming.wordpress.com/2013/06/16/why-cold-war-warsaw-pact-tactics-work-in-wargaming/

quote:

Some Soviet weapons were largely inferior (perhaps at 2/3rds of the effectiveness of western weapons), in particular at long range. Their method of counter acting this was aiming to keep the advance moving in column until hit by effective enemy fire (e.g. first tank is blown up), then spend a minute forming into line abreast, followed by a charge.

If a company was engaged at the range of a mile, then it would aim to be on the enemy position in three minutes if it was in column (i.e. not expecting to be hit by effective fire) or 2 minutes if already formed for an advance to contact. Russian units do not fire and manoeuvre at below company level (at least while in a mechanised battle). The second company would aim to be on the enemy position as soon as the tactical situation permitted e.g. 2-3 minute after the first company has reached the enemy position. On the battlefield it meant that defending enemy anti-tank guided missile launchers would get perhaps 2 missiles off, and hand held anti-tank weapons perhaps 1 or 2 before the battle was fought at point blank range.

On the wargaming table, the rapid �close to contact� minimises the NATO advantage in weaponry. Advantages, such as superior NATO weapon sights, matter little if tanks and AFVs are firing at targets at less than 200 metres.

quote:

The scene was set in a WWII aircraft hanger used by BAE Systems limited for some experiments on situational awareness on the modern battlefield. The game was played over a 1/300 scale model, representing a portion of West Germany near the �Hof Gap�, that was large enough to be walked on.

The scenario had been played 80 times before, as repetition was necessary to produce valid data. I was on the attacking team against staff who had knew the rules, terrain and the scenario inside out (and back to front). What the staff did not realise was that all of the attacking team had commanded �Orange forces� at various levels during NATO exercises. We were Russians and we intended to act like them.

The terrain analysis was simple. A stream ran across our front, overlooked by high ground on the other side. There was a town to the left as we faced our axis of advance and in the far distance (15k) was a larger river, with a few crossing points dominated by a few hills. There were an appropriate number of woods, farms, roads and tracks.

Our plan was simple, we would advance on three axis, with a reserve behind. Which ever axis broke through first would become the main axis of advance and all support would be shifted to that axis. We took approximately 10 minutes to make our plan, which caused much amusement to the other side. They expected us to spend 2 hours discussing phased lines of advance, artillery targets, giving detailed orders etc�

The battle started with an artillery/ rocket/ mortar barrage reminiscent of the Somme. While NATO armies might carefully recce enemy positions or rely of calling in supporting fire as targets were required, we were a Russian army and we had little confidence in getting the necessary support quickly. We simply identified any likely positions overlooking the stream and hit them hard with a pre-prepared fire plan.

There could have been minefields to our front, but Russian doctrine was to advance as if they were not there. So the NATO defenders were a little surprised as there was no tentative recce, no checking for minefields but mechanised companies advancing at maximum speed on three axis. This ruined their plan of taking time to identify our main thrust and counter-attacking it.

As we entered the town on our left, it became obvious that the town was well defended. So, in line with Russian doctrine (Towns should be bypassed), infantry were debussed to engage in FIBUA, while the main column identified a gap in the defences, one street wide, and the battalion went straight through the town and out the other side� the defenders were shocked at being bypassed and their commander had what can only be described as �command paralysis�.

The NATO counter-attack hit our centre axis of advance. Our centre axis ground to a halt. rather than reinforce failure, the reserves switched to follow another axis. The divisional artillery support also switched to the other two successful axis.

Our advance was difficult to halt, as every time a main road was blocked, the advance switched to the next adjacent road. Russian policy was any road heading west would do (as they come from a country of poor roads).

At every possible opportunity, the Russian advance switched back to column formation for maximum speed. The speed reduced NATO support, as their mortar/ artillery positions had to move as they felt threatened by the speed of our advance.

The other side started to panic as the situation was changing too quickly and we seemed to be playing by different rules to what they were used to. I knew we were winning when an umpire tried to warn me about potential ambushes and why my column should slow down (just in case).

The game ended with the right hand Russian axis occupying the high ground overlooking the crossing points the enemy needed to retreat over. It had a full division�s worth of artillery to supplement its tank guns and anti-tank missiles. The scattered NATO forces had been bypassed and were out of supply and their retreat route was covered by direct enemy fire and artillery.

It�s an interesting dive into older soviet doctrine and the logic behind it and why perhaps certain behaviours you keep seeing from the Russians are occurring. Old theory meeting modern reality.

# ¿ Mar 8, 2023 08:11

Mr Teatime: Apr 7, 2009

the holy poopacy posted:

Logically, then, Stalin was history's greatest monster for choosing to resist the Nazi invasion, and millions of Soviet deaths can be lain directly at his feet for his refusal to negotiate like a sensible person.

The Socialist Republic of Vietnam is a tragic monument to the bloodthirstiness of the North Vietnamese government, who were obligated to surrender immediately to American intervention but foolishly chose to sacrifice their own people in a pointless war.

I'm glad we all agree that a country defending itself against invasion is an unconscionable act under all circumstances.

You know they�re just intentionally trying to get a probe right?

# ¿ Mar 8, 2023 15:47

Mr Teatime: Apr 7, 2009

What exactly is Russia planning to send to get that drone wreckage from 1500 meters of depth, the loving Moskva?

# ¿ Mar 16, 2023 15:10

Mr Teatime: Apr 7, 2009

HonorableTB posted:

Japan's prime minister is going to Kyiv:

https://twitter.com/IuliiaMendel/status/1638059777350684673?s=20

Kishida: Tell me Mr Zelenskyy, have you heard of�anime?
Zelenskyy: Of course Fumio, as a patron of the high arts I�

Zelenskyy trails off as Kishida motions with his hand to cut him off, he leans forward with a serious expression on his face.

Kishida: Mr Zelenskyy, what if I told you something that would change the face of this war today�.what if I told you that anime�is real.

# ¿ Mar 21, 2023 19:27

Mr Teatime: Apr 7, 2009

mobby_6kl posted:

Warning, new drone bombing footage:

https://i.imgur.com/Fods9In.mp4

�Pilot the sausage drone Serhii, or Andrei will have to do it again�.

# ¿ Mar 21, 2023 20:37

Mr Teatime: Apr 7, 2009

Shaman Tank Spec posted:

Modernization in this case meaning some conscript spray painting a Z on them.

Buddy it says HEAT resistant right on the can.

# ¿ Mar 22, 2023 15:08

Mr Teatime: Apr 7, 2009

Karate Bastard posted:

Like is any poop currently on fire?

Check my post history :smug:

E: wait gently caress

# ¿ Mar 23, 2023 16:07

Mr Teatime: Apr 7, 2009

Tigey posted:

Yeah, Glasgow in particular have their own regional variant of the box with everything a new baby needs to get started:

To understand the cuisine of the Glaswegian you need only consider what if Noah had owned a deep frier instead of a boat.

# ¿ Mar 30, 2023 15:30

Mr Teatime: Apr 7, 2009

How many CP (control points) is the plane monument worth and with its capture is Russia able to reach 100% war score and enforce their demands? Many people are asking such questions.

# ¿ Apr 8, 2023 21:14

Mr Teatime: Apr 7, 2009

Picturing the multi hour high level meetings at the pentagon wherein junior officer shortstraw has to explain to the joint chiefs and heads of various letter agencies what a discord is.

# ¿ Apr 13, 2023 22:58

Mr Teatime: Apr 7, 2009

JFC guys you don�t have to circle the wagons and get in the posting defence bunker because of a photo of one dipshit and his edgelord patch, it�s absolutely fine to agree it�s stupid and move on.

# ¿ Apr 26, 2023 08:30

Mr Teatime: Apr 7, 2009

It�s been said from reliable sources that the tiny Zelensky personally piloted the small manned aircraft into the Kremlin himself, supposedly only bailing out at the last second with his parachute made from a small handkerchief. My infallible sources tell me he is currently at large in the Moscow countryside.

# ¿ May 3, 2023 17:53

Mr Teatime: Apr 7, 2009

Dwesa posted:

US approves transfer of seized assets from sanctions-hit oligarch to Ukraine, first move of its kind. According to article it's millions of dollars, but for now it's unclear when those assets will be transferred to Ukraine

https://twitter.com/ChristopherJM/status/1656545559761567744

Blyat Berry.

# ¿ May 11, 2023 09:55

Mr Teatime: Apr 7, 2009

I can�t remember, was Bakhmut the strategic anvil upon which multi polar nato stomping Russia was going to break Ukraine Verdun style and humiliate the lib brained west? Or was it an unimportant sideshow that Russia definitely didn�t even care about and wasn�t trying at all? :lofty:

Edit: ps I�ve not finished reading ww1 yet pls no spoilers about how verdun ends, really well for the attacker I imagine.

Mr Teatime fucked around with this message at 15:35 on May 12, 2023

# ¿ May 12, 2023 15:30

Mr Teatime: Apr 7, 2009

I think that it�s safe to say that, amongst the many reasons certain western nations are windmill slamming their domestically produced military equipment into Ukraine, there is the fact that for their defence industries this is the greatest advertisement opportunity in decades to try and get other countries interested in buying their poo poo.

# ¿ May 17, 2023 12:36

Mr Teatime: Apr 7, 2009

Take solace in the fact those who hate read this thread all the time are being subjected to this high level of quality posting too.

# ¿ May 20, 2023 22:16

Mr Teatime: Apr 7, 2009

Wee posted:

Where i was when the US hosed up any other country.

At home and pissed off

I have no problem in believing you spend your time at home and pissed off.

# ¿ May 20, 2023 22:29

Mr Teatime: Apr 7, 2009

My tattoo actually says �the Ukraine, the�.

# ¿ May 20, 2023 22:54

Mr Teatime: Apr 7, 2009

Negostrike posted:

ikr how dare such a lowly dirty south american complain about the West profiting from the blood of civilians

Now this is multi polar posting.
:peanut:

# ¿ May 21, 2023 23:04

Mr Teatime: Apr 7, 2009

Why is nobody talking about the true perfidious devils, the global centre?

# ¿ May 21, 2023 23:22

Mr Teatime: Apr 7, 2009

The global south is a Sunday friend rear end phrase.

# ¿ May 22, 2023 01:02

Mr Teatime: Apr 7, 2009

Can�t believe Russia is prolonging this invasion of its territory by not instantly surrendering to Russia. Bloodthirsty liberals.

# ¿ May 22, 2023 20:18

Mr Teatime: Apr 7, 2009

Negostrike posted:

https://twitter.com/DefenceU/status/1661037540076290048

The boy who libbed.

# ¿ May 24, 2023 06:31

Mr Teatime: Apr 7, 2009

Toxic Mental posted:

Look I just care about people okay. That's why I'm okay with fascists getting everything they want. Uh, Gaddafi had lots of social security programs you guys.

Baba Gaddafis social programs. :peanut:

# ¿ May 26, 2023 00:15

Mr Teatime: Apr 7, 2009

GABA ghoul posted:

Lmao, I made a joke in this thread that the Russian investigation will present a half eaten hamburger from the ocean floor as evidence of American involvement. I was soooooo loving close

Imagine believing that Americans would leave a burger half eaten.

# ¿ Jun 5, 2023 18:33

Mr Teatime: Apr 7, 2009

Are you sure these confirmed leopard kills aren�t from the zoo they loving flooded?

# ¿ Jun 9, 2023 22:41

Mr Teatime: Apr 7, 2009

Who knows how this will play out but I think it�s fairly safe to say that if Russia had managed any decisive crushing wins they would be unable to resist posting video evidence of it from 5 different angles. The fact that so far all they�ve been showing is that one leopard/Bradley pile up is pretty telling.

# ¿ Jun 11, 2023 03:38

Mr Teatime: Apr 7, 2009

Coquito Ergo Sum posted:

Wanna nail this tweet to James Burton's door.

Taking a break from being a big brained war understander smugly using terms like �disruption zone� which I definitely didn�t learn only a day ago to start talking about how bad the Bradley is using my main source, Pentagon wars. I am definitely not a complete rube.

# ¿ Jun 15, 2023 23:19

Mr Teatime: Apr 7, 2009

Can�t believe Boris Johnson made Ukraine tear up Putins very real and very signed beautiful peace agreement, the only reason Russia had pulled back from Kyiv. Thank god I�m not a credulous simpleton so I�m able to understand such things.

# ¿ Jun 21, 2023 06:24

Mr Teatime: Apr 7, 2009

Tarquinn posted:

The constant need to prove that you�re the manliest manly man that ever manned is so alien to me.
What went wrong that these people are so loving insecure?

1. The cult of tradition. �One has only to look at the syllabus of every fascist movement to find the major traditionalist thinkers. The Nazi gnosis was nourished by traditionalist, syncretistic, occult elements.�

2. The rejection of modernism. �The Enlightenment, the Age of Reason, is seen as the beginning of modern depravity. In this sense Ur-Fascism can be defined as irrationalism.�

3. The cult of action for action�s sake. �Action being beautiful in itself, it must be taken before, or without, any previous reflection. Thinking is a form of emasculation.�

4. Disagreement is treason. �The critical spirit makes distinctions, and to distinguish is a sign of modernism. In modern culture the scientific community praises disagreement as a way to improve knowledge.�

5. Fear of difference. �The first appeal of a fascist or prematurely fascist movement is an appeal against the intruders. Thus Ur-Fascism is racist by definition.�

6. Appeal to social frustration. �One of the most typical features of the historical fascism was the appeal to a frustrated middle class, a class suffering from an economic crisis or feelings of political humiliation, and frightened by the pressure of lower social groups.�

7. The obsession with a plot. �Thus at the root of the Ur-Fascist psychology there is the obsession with a plot, possibly an international one. The followers must feel besieged.�

8. The enemy is both strong and weak. �By a continuous shifting of rhetorical focus, the enemies are at the same time too strong and too weak.�

9. Pacifism is trafficking with the enemy. �For Ur-Fascism there is no struggle for life but, rather, life is lived for struggle.�

10. Contempt for the weak. �Elitism is a typical aspect of any reactionary ideology.�

11. Everybody is educated to become a hero. �In Ur-Fascist ideology, heroism is the norm. This cult of heroism is strictly linked with the cult of death.�

12. Machismo and weaponry. �Machismo implies both disdain for women and intolerance and condemnation of nonstandard sexual habits, from chastity to homosexuality.�

13. Selective populism. �There is in our future a TV or Internet populism, in which the emotional response of a selected group of citizens can be presented and accepted as the Voice of the People.�

14. Ur-Fascism speaks Newspeak. �All the Nazi or Fascist schoolbooks made use of an impoverished vocabulary, and an elementary syntax, in order to limit the instruments for complex and critical reasoning.�

Can�t remember what this list is about again but in completely unrelated news I am being reliably informed that NATO is both too strong and yet also decadent and weak.

# ¿ Jun 21, 2023 21:47

Mr Teatime: Apr 7, 2009

zone posted:

That's Umberto Eco's 14 points of fascism.

I may have been slightly saucy about not knowing what it was.

tiaz posted:

no that was Mr Teatime.

That�s the 14 points of facetiousness, different list.

Mr Teatime fucked around with this message at 22:11 on Jun 21, 2023

# ¿ Jun 21, 2023 22:08

Mr Teatime: Apr 7, 2009

Nightmare Cinema posted:

Someone explain this Wagner thing to me in anime language

# ¿ Jun 24, 2023 21:39

Mr Teatime: Apr 7, 2009

SidneyIsTheKiller posted:

"Tankie" is a fun word and all but can we cut to the chase and just call them commies? Cause it's what they are. I know someone's gonna be like "but Marx etc., etc.!" But come on, that ship sailed generations ago. When people talk about "communists," this is who they're referring to.

Like if someone asks "why the hell would anybody be on Russia's side" and you tell them "they're tankies," you'll still have some explaining to do. But if you say "they're commies," they'll understand exactly the type of person you're talking about immediately.

No.

# ¿ Jun 25, 2023 16:41

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# ¿ May 14, 2024 12:21

Mr Teatime: Apr 7, 2009

Coupa grovir.

# ¿ Jun 25, 2023 21:25

The Something Awful Forums > Main > General Bullshit > Ukraine War: Berth El Buk

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