Mordiceius posted:

I bought a PS5 so I can play this. The anticipation is killing me.

It's wild to me to me that we haven't had a proper Final Fantasy game without any weird development drama since FFXII in 2006. Fabula Nova Crystallis really hosed up the company for 15 straight years.

HD DAD posted:

Remember that FFXIII started production in 2004 as a PS2 title. That was always wild to me.

Ytlaya posted:

Didn't someone literally make this exact argument in the FF thread (or something very similar)?

Edit: not based on the word aether, but IIRC they were arguing that all FF games existed within the 14 universe

susan b buffering posted:

there was definitely a very tedious argument recently about at least 12 and maybe tactics being in the same universe as 14 based on the ivalice raid series

Terper posted:

The demo is the start of the game and you can carry over the save, so it's more like getting a free appetizer before you start the main course

Terper posted:

cock hero flux posted:

it's pretty obviously ATB given that most games use it in one form or another, and people would probably also accept an FFX-style turn based system since it's functionally very similar.

Xerophyte posted:

I think there's a pretty clear demarcation between 1-10 + 13, which are turn based-ish party based RPGs, and the rest, which aren't. 1-10 is a 15 year stretch and 11-16 is a 20 year stretch so it's not like that's some recent pivot, but there's some pretty clear "okay how do we actually make RPG gameplay work with what we want to do narratively?" workshopping going on in 12 and the 13s that ended with a decision of "we need to have more action elements".

I don't think it's very realistic to expect Squeenix to go back to parties and turns. Their focus for the series since 6 has been on delivering narrative spectacles that push the current tech boundary. You can like or dislike that, but no one is likely to make a triple-A game that's also an adventuring party RPG with an ATB-style battle system today; it just limits what sort of spectacle your game can deliver a bit too much. A FF16 with mechanics in the style of even 13 would need to be a smaller game, and Squeenix want the mainline FFs to be as big and bombastic as possible.

It's not like it's hard to find a recent party-based RPG with turn based-ish battles if you want one: it's just not going to be a maximum budget game with Final Fantasy in the title.

Personally, while I do miss the old systems in some ways because I am an old fart, I also enjoyed the MMOs, 12 and even 15 (well, the open world half; the final story stretch not so much). Stuff changes, so it goes.

cock hero flux posted:

yeah, especially given that it was retrofitted into 1, 2 and 3 when they were rereleased. And I'd absolutely say 13 is ATB, given that that's literally what they call it in game(even if it functions a differently than normal).

as for 10: it's turn-based, yes, but it is functionally very similar to ATB. Turn-based systems and ATB systems are pretty similar. FFX plays a lot like an ATB system on Wait mode. ATB bars typically fill at different rates depending on stats/status effects/etc. and FFX's variable turn order accomplishes the same thing in a way that is presented differently. While not identical, they're close enough as to not put off people who enjoyed the ATB system. Something like 15, on the other hand, is not. It plays very differently to the point of being essentially a different genre.

cock hero flux posted:

They definitely did to some of the rereleases but I guess they might have gone back to pure turn-based for the more recent ones, I haven't played those. My mistake, if so.

Yeah, it functionally does. If you added a window showing the player the order of the next 10 or so ATB bars that were going to fill up it'd be pretty much exactly the same, but that information is normally obfuscated from the player. X does the opposite, making it very obvious and giving you a few more tools to play around with to mess with the speed at which you and enemies get turns. This is already how the ATB system works, it just doesn't really tell the player about it most of the time. As far as activity: if you put ATB on Wait, bars do not fill and turns do not happen while a player is selecting a command. It is, functionally, a Turn that ends when you pick something. ATB has always been very, very similar to a turn-based system with variable turn order, which is why people did not really complain when the series switched between them.

cock hero flux posted:

It is turn to turn, though. It's just that Tidus can be fast enough, and enemies slow enough, that Tidus can take 5 turns before an enemy can take 1. Again, just because FFX gives the player more tools to manipulate turn timing doesn't mean that the underlying system is all that different.

ATB bars fill at different speeds. If, say, Cloud's ATB bar were to fill 5 times faster than a Behemoth's, then Cloud would get 5 turns before the Behemoth gets 1. It's the same, it's just that 7 doesn't give the player enough tools for manipulating the ATB bar to get more than like, 2 turns in a row.

cock hero flux posted:

wait mode

any turn based JRPG with variable turn order is functionally the same as ATB on wait mode, yes

they CAN be functionally distinct, but FFX is not. Something like FF1, with its original turn system, is distinct since if I remember right that one was just "every PC takes a turn and then every enemy takes a turn", so the turn order isn't variable.

Terper posted:

cock hero flux posted:

Okay, maybe there's a minor difference(which people complain about the existence of). But remember, the point you're trying to make here is: "People complaining about the direction the series have taken since 15 don't even know what they want, the series has always made big sweeping changes between games." Do you think the fact that there's a minor functional difference between ATB and turn-based(a difference which people, as you say, complain about)validates that idea the series has made this kind of big sweeping change before? Out of 16 games: 12 use either ATB or turn-based, 2 systems which are very, very similar. 2 are MMOs which use a fairly standard MMO system, since turn-based or ATB would not translate well to an MMO(and which garnered a somewhat different audience as a result). And then the last 2 are action games. Do you really think there's no justification for long-time fans of the series to be disappointed by the fact that it's taken this new direction? Are you actually saying that 15 and 16 are no further removed from 4-9 than 10 is?

cock hero flux posted:

thanks, this is basically a better way of making the same point

Spermando posted:

They just casually said that this was codeveloped with Platinum Games.

Ohtsam posted:

The live combat demo was great and it was ballsy as gently caress to do live like that. They must have the game code really locked down and stable if they're willing to do that.

Ibblebibble posted:

I realised that I'm a bad defensively so I put on the Timely Dodges accessory and haven't really looked back. I'll probably slap the Torgal one on too.

Ytlaya posted:

I feel like the dog controls may have been a mistake. It's good that you get a way to make his actions automatic (though at the cost of an accessory slot), but I feel like it'll always be kind of unintuitive to try and split your focus between the dog's behavior and all the stuff Clive has to manage himself. And because of the way his abilities (or at least the attacks) have no cooldown, it seems optimal to be just hitting up or down on the d-pad constantly.

Sakurazuka posted:

Titan mode owns but seems particularly broken, not particularly slow, super high damage moves and block that is also a parry and counter and much easier to pull off than the actual parry?

Enjoyed the Phoenix magic counter move in the last boss fight too.

Spermando posted:

Is it the parry into ora ora ora? It can be purchased in the demo.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqeyWsFb8Tg

Ytlaya posted:

Torgal control issues aside, I'm actually pleasantly surprised by the combat being more difficult than I expected. I absolutely ate poo poo against Garuda the first time (though part of that is because I was constantly trying to do perfect dodges instead of just playing it safe and avoiding attacks by running around).

Something that wasn't as clear from the preview videos is that you can't just dodge over and over again, and the time window is small enough (even after I upgraded it in the skill interface - btw everyone should remember to do that during the Eikonic challenge mode - you can also try out an extra skill for each Eikon) that you really have to pay attention. Titan block also isn't perfect, since a non-perfect block against boss attacks seems to usually stagger you (so any sort of combo will hit you on the follow-ups).

edit: I feel like in practice the way I'm going to end up playing this is to have one Eikon form that is my "main regular fighting one" (with a circle ability that I like) and to just cycle through all of them blowing all their cooldowns whenever they're available. Dynamically switching to use specific skills seems like it'll be a bit much for my brain to handle (outside of situations like "boss is about to shoot a projectile, so switch to Phoenix for the anti-projectile thing").

(Tbh, part of me wishes you were limited to two, since with just two you don't have to keep track of which form you're using. While I'm sure you can get familiar with the specific order you choose, part of my brain will always have to think about things like "if I want to change back to _____ I need to hit L2 twice vs once.")

I said come in! posted:

Also, your life expectancy is really awful if youre a Final Fantasy dad. Square hates parents now that I think about it.

Endorph posted:

red's implied to be a parent at the end of ff7 also!!!

Ibblebibble posted:

It looks like every dominant has a powered-up-but-not-full-eikon form, you can see most of them in various trailers and suchlike. Joshua has it right before his full Phoenix transformation too.

Terper posted:

The game is essentially divided between two parts: mostly linear action stages with a branching path or room here and there that are built to be setpieces and can be replayed to get high scores to compare on leaderboards; basically just DMC levels.

In-between doing these stages you have moments of downtime in really big open field areas where you can ride chocobos, do sidequests and get lore, visit villages and outposts, and what have you.

Arist posted:

I wish it had a history and didn't seemingly cap at five entries.