Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
Mustang
Jun 18, 2006

“We don’t really know where this goes — and I’m not sure we really care.”

lobster shirt posted:

only 27% of americans valuing community is extremely grim

Look how many Americans live in soulless suburbs that could be anywhere in the US, they've probably never really experienced a "community" to value one in the first place.

I didn't learn to value it until I moved out of the suburbs and lived somewhere that had a good local community that showed me what I had been missing out on, on the odd chance I ever have kids there's no way in hell I'd ever raise them in the suburbs.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Mustang
Jun 18, 2006

“We don’t really know where this goes — and I’m not sure we really care.”
In regards to Florida, there's also the question of what the long-term consequences will be for all of the culture war bills he's signed into law.

I'm curious how many people other than the most politically tuned in are even aware of the details of those laws. I've talked to some people here in WA and while they know who DeSantis is they don't know anything about all the laws he's been passing. But maybe that's just because WA is literally on the opposite side of the country from FL.

I'd imagine after DeSantis officially starts his campaign his opponents will start putting a lot more energy into attacking his record, the response from Democrats in particular seems pretty muted so far.

Mustang
Jun 18, 2006

“We don’t really know where this goes — and I’m not sure we really care.”
It can also stand for another thing he was really good at, demanding the unconditional surrender of traitor armies.

Mustang
Jun 18, 2006

“We don’t really know where this goes — and I’m not sure we really care.”

Epiphyte posted:

Seems like this will also hurt ESPN as well, they benefit greatly from being automatically included with 95% of cable packages, even for people who don't give a drat about sports

Who has cable packages other than old people? I haven't had cable TV in well over a decade at this point. Hell, even my own boomer parents cut the cord last year and only use streaming now.

Mustang
Jun 18, 2006

“We don’t really know where this goes — and I’m not sure we really care.”
Who in particular and who were they being an rear end in a top hat to?

I'd be more fired up to cast my vote for someone that would openly and constantly question the morality of the GOP and call a fascist a fascist. Republicans are deserving of neither decorum or civility.

This year has seen a deluge of fascist and bigoted laws being passed by red states and the Democrats don't seem to be making too much noise about it.

Serious question, did Democrats have anything to say when conservatives and Republicans spent weeks going after Budlight and Dylan Mulvaney? I tried googling that and one of the first results was an article titled "Will Democrats fight for Trans people?"

There is no value in being nice to these people.

Yes I know some blue states have passed their own laws too but they're a blip in the news for a day before the fascists do something hosed up again.

Seriously, how are the Democrats this loving bad at messaging what they stand for and why it's better for America? Like everyone in this thread I read political poo poo every day and I'm dismayed by their impotence, so the average American definitely isn't hearing much from them.

Mustang
Jun 18, 2006

“We don’t really know where this goes — and I’m not sure we really care.”
Why did the Democrats not put the Gephardt rule back into place?

Mustang
Jun 18, 2006

“We don’t really know where this goes — and I’m not sure we really care.”

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

I wonder if there is some strategist advising everyone to do this or if it is just a coincidence, but there is a weird trend in the last 48 hours of Republican presidential candidates doing "tours" of American cities that are third-world hellholes.

So far, we have:

- DeSantis
- Trump
- Ramaswamy
- Haley

All releasing videos this week where they tour some American city and describe the nightmare that has taken over all of them.

Two of them went to San Francisco, one went to Kensington, Pennsylvania, and one went to Washington, D.C.

https://twitter.com/CitizenFreePres/status/1671562106649583616
https://twitter.com/VivekGRamaswamy/status/1671268029118783488

There's so many articles out there about liberals trying to understand Trump voters or whites with no college education but you never see the same thing from the right.

Just seething hatred for everything urban, and a blind eye for the poverty and substance abuse in their own backyard.

Mustang
Jun 18, 2006

“We don’t really know where this goes — and I’m not sure we really care.”

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

The defecating and public opioid use was apparently because of "woke." Not a specific "woke" thing, but the concept of woke directly intervening in the lives of the people of San Francisco.

What is this "proof" that Florida is an example of a better America? California out performs Florida on things like life expectancy and overdoses per capita.

Other than just size and the fact that it's a blue state I think one reason it's so easy for the GOP to target California is that it's so far away from red states and few of these people have any direct experience being in California.

Mustang
Jun 18, 2006

“We don’t really know where this goes — and I’m not sure we really care.”

Sephyr posted:

Yep. Putin is a mobster and a fuckhead, but it has been a bit disquieting watching supposedly level-headed people drooling to see Russia become a larger version of post-Khaddafi Lybia, only with nukes.

"Shut up about the Azov battalion, Russia has the Wagner Group which is even nazi-er! I mean, um, those brave freedom fighters may reach Moscow and remove the tyrant any day now, yay! What, they were bought off? So back to being nazis. Update your talking points, everyone."

Can you point out some examples where some of these supposedly level-headed people switched to thinking that Wagner forces are now brave freedom fighters?

Mustang
Jun 18, 2006

“We don’t really know where this goes — and I’m not sure we really care.”
I grew up in Florida and that state is an absolute disaster to be a young person. Even before everything became expensive entry level jobs didn't pay enough to live off of. The only people the Florida economy has ever worked for is people that are mid career or retirees.

Every set of parents that decides to settle down in Florida is setting up their children to struggle through their early adulthood working service jobs that pay poo poo and offer few benefits. Florida is just psychotically hostile to young people.

Mustang
Jun 18, 2006

“We don’t really know where this goes — and I’m not sure we really care.”

bird food bathtub posted:

A strategy that will crash and burn with ferocity when the follow up question "What are you going to do about it?" is asked. I'm not aware of anybody in the state that has an answer besides "lol I dunno be more Republican? Anything else is doing a socialism!" Those of you still living there can set me straight if things have changed. I got the gently caress out of America's Scrotum like a decade ago, so I'm not in the front row of the dumpster fire viewing seats anymore. Just throwing the poo poo the state deserves from afar.

Even liberal/Democratic leaning people I grew up with around Tampa are pretty hostile to the government doing anything at any time. Florida is an incoherent libertarian dumpster fire.

I struggle to think of anything redeemable about the state. Cuban sandwiches? Cool wildlife like alligators? That's about it. Don't miss the people at all.

Mustang
Jun 18, 2006

“We don’t really know where this goes — and I’m not sure we really care.”
I think others are right when they say that primarily chuds or chud adjacent folks are the main group of people drinking Bud Light.

Living in Seattle I'm not even sure I could even buy a Bud Light at any of the bars I go to if I wanted one. Definitely not after they caved to the rednecks. The cheap option here is Rainier or a PBR.

Mustang
Jun 18, 2006

“We don’t really know where this goes — and I’m not sure we really care.”
Is there a reason these coastal/flood zone Floridian homes aren't on stilts of some kind then? I grew up in FL and unless a house is like literally right next to the beach they're all ground level. Guessing it's just cheaper and that's all there is to it.

But people are also moving to those further inland areas just as fast, if not more so. My parents house is on the outskirts of Tampa and when we moved in in 2000 it was on the edge of rural areas including cow pastures, now miles and miles beyond my parents house is packed to the brim with new subdivisions and strip malls.

Mustang
Jun 18, 2006

“We don’t really know where this goes — and I’m not sure we really care.”
The majority of new buildings put up tend to be hideous, and you largely can't even tell what part of the country/world they're even from because they all look the same and could be literally anywhere.

Seems like a depressing time to be an architect.

Mustang
Jun 18, 2006

“We don’t really know where this goes — and I’m not sure we really care.”

Meatball posted:

That's why tuberville is keeping military slots open. If Trump wins, they'll stuff the military leadership with fascists who want to invade Mexico.
Not that easy to do, since the beginning of Trump's presidency a majority of military officers disapproved of him, and it only became worse as time went on.

I was an officer in the Army, and the few times Trump ever came up at work among fellow officers it was always something negative.

It's still a group that leans conservative but they're definitely not Trump supporters by and large, especially the younger ones.

Being an officer requires a college education and they probably have friends among the groups that the right is relentlessly attacking these days, likely even fellow service members belonging to those groups.

I have many complaints about my fellow officers but being Trumpy isn't one of them.

Edit: there's also the fact that officers are one of those groups of overeducated professionals that the right loves to attack.

Mustang fucked around with this message at 04:00 on Jul 14, 2023

Mustang
Jun 18, 2006

“We don’t really know where this goes — and I’m not sure we really care.”

Hieronymous Alloy posted:

It's not even urban vs rural. It's "watches right wing media vs doesn't".

How is it not urban vs rural? Even on dating apps you can clearly see a difference in values and interests once you get a good 20-30+ miles outside of the city and into the smaller communities. Living in a city, I struggle to find anything that I have in common with someone out in the countryside.

Really the only thing I've seen in common between urban and rural people is they both tend to highly value their local shops and restaurants over big corporate chains, and preserving the things that keeps their communities unique.

The suburbs seem to be where most of the action is, where both sides are more evenly split.

Mustang
Jun 18, 2006

“We don’t really know where this goes — and I’m not sure we really care.”
Well yeah, I live in Seattle so finding liberal/left leaning women nearby is easy. My main point was that there is a pretty clear difference in values and interests between urban and rural people, with suburbanites falling somewhere in between.

But even Democratic voters from the suburbs have their differences with cities, the ones from Seattle's suburbs certainly love to complain about the crime, drugs, and unhoused people of Seattle.

Like I can't imagine going to one of small towns of Washington and telling the people I meet there what a poo poo heap their town is, but mention you're from Seattle and they have plenty negative to say despite never living there once in their life.

90% of my family lives in either suburbs or rural areas of the South and Midwest and big cities are a pretty common target for everything wrong with America.

Mustang
Jun 18, 2006

“We don’t really know where this goes — and I’m not sure we really care.”
I went to Berlin last summer with my grad school program and was surprised how comparatively cheap things were. Most things seemed to be nearly 50% cheaper than they would have cost us in Seattle.

Some of the companies that we met with while we were there invited us to send them our resumes, but they also were only offering to pay at most half of what we could make in Seattle.

Mustang
Jun 18, 2006

“We don’t really know where this goes — and I’m not sure we really care.”

Zero_Grade posted:

Yeah the Jacksonville city limits encompasses an absurdly large amount of land. You pass the "Welcome to Jax!" sign on 95 and it's surrounded by nothing but forest. Then it's another long stretch on the highway until you start seeing outskirts (the Miami and Tampa areas are the opposite, with the technical core being quite small, but surrounded by dozens of neighborhoods/towns that form the actual city).

I grew up in Tampa, I didn't realize it at the time but it was really strange how much of the Tampa metro area is unincorporated areas with only a handful of other cities or towns. Like Riverview, FL isn't a real place, it's just a name on a map. No Riverview downtown, city hall, or anything like that. Just an endless expanse of subdivisions and strip malls. Has to be one of the worst examples of suburban blight in the country.

Whereas now I'm in Seattle and the metro area here is made up of Seattle along with other distinct towns and cities.

Mustang
Jun 18, 2006

“We don’t really know where this goes — and I’m not sure we really care.”
How is bending over backward to satisfy the NIMBY's the prudent choice when faced with the very obvious housing shortage in this country?

It's sickening how cowardly politicians are when it comes to NIMBY's.

Mustang
Jun 18, 2006

“We don’t really know where this goes — and I’m not sure we really care.”
Just look at all the articles and books out there by educated liberals trying to understand GOP voters since 2016.

That doesn't exist on the other side, just endless drivel about the evil woke beliefs of the coast liberal elites.

Those people are immune to facts or reasoned arguments, they can and will immediately disregard anything that refutes their belief as being liberal biased and thus not to be trusted.

Mustang
Jun 18, 2006

“We don’t really know where this goes — and I’m not sure we really care.”
Plus, why shouldn't he go after guys like DeSantis? There might be little the governor of California can do about what happens in Florida or other red states but it's better than just sitting back with nothing to say.

I think Newsom had a point when he asked "where is my party?" last summer. Democrats should be more aggressive with their messaging with all the hosed up poo poo Republicans are doing on nearly a daily basis.

Mustang
Jun 18, 2006

“We don’t really know where this goes — and I’m not sure we really care.”

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

The biggest downside (and this is somewhat unfair, but it's politics) to his schtick is his looks and voice. He absolutely looks like a used car salesman and I envision with perfect clarity him saying, "What's it going to take to get you in this Toyota Corolla today?" and it reinforces the perception of him desperately trying to sell you himself.

Yeah maybe, but that pales in comparison to all the strange and insane Republican characters he'll face as his opponents.

Charlie Crist made DeSantis look like a fool and Newsom is far more competent and has much better political instincts.

I don't think DeSantis has it in him to put up a decent fight, he only does good in his own bubble and with no one to fight back.

edit: especially considering how well Newsom's interview with Sean Hannity went.

Mustang fucked around with this message at 19:02 on Aug 10, 2023

Mustang
Jun 18, 2006

“We don’t really know where this goes — and I’m not sure we really care.”
Washington is full of examples of urban spaces that people like to go shop at that aren't anything like a traditional mall.

Most famous being Pike Place Market in Seattle which has a year round farmers market, art stalls, independent shops, restaurants, etc over several blocks. Seattle also has several "neighborhood main streets" with shops and restaurants that are crowded on the weekends.

Just about every city and town in Washington has a lively downtown mainstreet that's mostly independent shops and restaurants, with few if any chain brands present.

Personally, this is the ideal shopping environment to me. I don't get the allure of reviving malls unless they're very different than they currently are. If you've been to one mall you've been to them all, nearly all the shops and restaurants are the same.

WA actually has something called a Main Street Program that encourages these kind of urban commercial spaces: https://dahp.wa.gov/local-preservation/main-street-program

Mustang
Jun 18, 2006

“We don’t really know where this goes — and I’m not sure we really care.”

FLIPADELPHIA posted:

My money is on Newsome right now. He looks the part, and is just super confident and good in the spotlight. He went on Fucker Carlson and came out looking pretty solid. That bodes well for public matchups with chuds

I also think he will 100% be the Democratic nominee in 2028, and for the same reasons. He's also clearly campaigning for that 2028 nomination already, even if he hasn't claimed to.

The dude is clearly a political animal, will be interesting to see him going after the GOP whose base clearly loves it's amateurs the most.

Mustang
Jun 18, 2006

“We don’t really know where this goes — and I’m not sure we really care.”
Why do the Dems care if the GOP gets angry at being accurately described as Nazis? Their voters aren't going to ever vote Democrat, so have a spine and just call a spade a spade. Jesus Christ, caring about "decorum" in 2023 is just incredibly pathetic.

Mustang
Jun 18, 2006

“We don’t really know where this goes — and I’m not sure we really care.”
No one respects or trusts the national media, yet another group of people whose opinion is massively overvalued.

Mustang
Jun 18, 2006

“We don’t really know where this goes — and I’m not sure we really care.”

Kalit posted:

IMO, being hyperbolic and condescending in this way is just going to help push people further right. And it's not like that talking point is going to result in any positive outcomes, so why use it?

How is it hyperbolic? Red states are bending over backwards to make life as difficult as possible for anyone that isn't white, straight, christian, and conservative.

They're about to vote for Trump for a third loving time despite 90+ felonies and having his supporters sack the capital while trying to overturn an election that he lost.

zoux posted:

This is just incorrect.

Doesn't look that way to me.


https://knightfoundation.org/reports/american-views-2023-part-2/

Mustang
Jun 18, 2006

“We don’t really know where this goes — and I’m not sure we really care.”
The GOP doesn't hesitate to throw around fascist and Nazi when describing Democrats but I don't see a similar effort at backpedaling from them when they do it so I have a hard time caring if a Democrat calls a Republican a Nazi.

I mean poo poo, DeSantis' campaign had an ad that featured Nazi imagery. Even though they fired they guy, am I really supposed to think that was just a coincidence?

Or the CPAC stage looking drat near identical to a Nazi symbol?

Or the Republicans that refuse to condemn white supremacy or even acknowledge right wing domestic terrorism?

Just seems utterly loving ridiculous to give a poo poo about some offhand comment by a Democrat when there is the entire cesspit of the modern GOP to be concerned with.

Mustang
Jun 18, 2006

“We don’t really know where this goes — and I’m not sure we really care.”

plogo posted:

So this is a general poll, rather than a poll of businesses & rich people, but I do not think much progress has been made in terms of convincing the country that the Republican are a threat to the economy.


https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/4235353-gop-holds-edge-in-new-poll-on-safeguarding-prosperity-military-security/

(Polling from gallup)

"Fifty-three percent of respondents said the GOP would do a better job at keeping the country prosperous over the next few years, compared to the Democrats’ 39 percent. The 14-point advantage is the widest gap on the question since mid-1991. It also is up from the 10-point gap last year. "

I would love to hear what policies these people think the GOP has that would make this country more economically prosperous.

Mustang
Jun 18, 2006

“We don’t really know where this goes — and I’m not sure we really care.”

zoux posted:

Hard to gauge how much stuff like this factors into peoples' misapprehension about the state of the economy ,but it ain't helping



Jobs go up? That's bad. Jobs go down? That's bad too. Jobs stay the same? You better believe that's bad.

I would love to know what jobs these are. Myself and hordes of other white collar workers certainly aren't feeling a job market flush with available jobs after all of the layoffs over the past year. Reminds me more of the job market after the great recession. Every job posting gets 700-1000+ applicants, if they're even real job postings to begin with.

The economy blows rear end.

Mustang
Jun 18, 2006

“We don’t really know where this goes — and I’m not sure we really care.”

theCalamity posted:

There are Democrats that are anti-choice, transphobes, and are alright with education and social services being cut. The Dems have had chances to pass abortion rights for decades but failed to do so. Last year, they had control of the White House, the House, and the senate, and they failed to pass a law codifying Roe.

The GOP has been making it harder to vote in their states and, nationally, the Dems failed to pass a voting rights law that could alleviate that pressure. It’s hard to convince people to vote for the Democrats when the Democrats failed to make it easier to get them elected.

How does not voting and the GOP winning more elections improve things in any meaningful way? One side is very clearly better than the other, despite their flaws.

If more Democrats were elected and we didn't have to rely on the votes of people like Manchin and Sinema they might actually one day pass those types of laws.

They're definitely not going to happen if people decide to stop voting because their perfect candidate isn't running. Not voting makes zero sense.

The fact is the Democrats are more likely to pass those laws in the future than the pipe dream of some leftist revolution possibly happening in the United States.

Mustang
Jun 18, 2006

“We don’t really know where this goes — and I’m not sure we really care.”
Just came across an interesting article in the Washington Post: New York City’s new goal: Everyone lives to at least 83'

The details of the article aren't overly important but it made me question why increasing life expectancy/quality life isn't used more often as a political goal. Doesn't everybody want to live longer and have a better quality of life?

The kinds of things they want to address in NYC are things like deaths of despair (drug and alcohol abuse, suicide) but also lifestyle habits that cause chronic issues like cardiovascular disease and diabetes. In general anything that might cause someone's life to end sooner rather than later.

Mustang
Jun 18, 2006

“We don’t really know where this goes — and I’m not sure we really care.”
It is easy to vote in states that Democrats control.

In Washington I get mailed a ballot for every election and a handy voters guide that explains what it is I'm voting on.

But even with voters being mailed a ballot for every election, turnout is low for any that isn't a vote for president. It's still just as easy to vote in these other elections here but people don't.

Mustang
Jun 18, 2006

“We don’t really know where this goes — and I’m not sure we really care.”
I was an officer in the Army through almost the entirety of Trump's term, and you will not hear any officers talking politics at work, especially around enlisted soldiers. Amongst themselves they might discuss it or make an offhandedly remark about something Trump did making our jobs more difficult.

A military times poll showed that officers disapproved of Trump from the beginning of his presidency and it has almost certainly gotten worse since then. At the the beginning of his presidency it was a big deal because there was this split between the political views of officers and enlisted, which is not something that had happened in the past. This was almost certainly the education divide playing out in the military.

Trump's behavior and statements towards the military throughout his term were more than enough to turn the enlisted troops against him.

I think one thing that all troops have in common with many people's college experience is living in and around lots of people from very diverse backgrounds, unlike a lot of people living in conservative areas, which I'm sure also has an impact on how people view the political parties.

Mustang
Jun 18, 2006

“We don’t really know where this goes — and I’m not sure we really care.”

Angry_Ed posted:

I'm very glad people are finally realizing Republicans do not deserve a single ounce of respect no matter what office they hold.

No one that needs to realize that, has realized that.

In any remotely sane society the GOP wouldn't be a highly competitive national party, and yet they are.

Mustang
Jun 18, 2006

“We don’t really know where this goes — and I’m not sure we really care.”

D-Pad posted:

I think the issue is Elon likes to involve himself in lower level engineering decisions and the like that most CEOs never touch because his ego tells him he's a genius and only he can solve problems. That type of stuff will have a lot more contact points with classified info beyond just what is the payload?

I know several current and former SpaceX engineers and they described an environment where people actively dreaded anything they were working on coming to attention of Elon, and him coming in and loving things up.

Mustang
Jun 18, 2006

“We don’t really know where this goes — and I’m not sure we really care.”
I'm not at all surprised by those findings. I was in grad school from 2021-23 and sometimes we had to do virtual. I had a hard time paying attention on zoom for hours of classes. Can't imagine having to learn that way full time, for months or a year plus.

Mustang
Jun 18, 2006

“We don’t really know where this goes — and I’m not sure we really care.”

Levitate posted:

Make them all read Gene Wolfe instead

Just read Gene Wolfe's Book of the New Sun for the first time and it was awesome, highly recommend. Would have loved it in highschool too.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Mustang
Jun 18, 2006

“We don’t really know where this goes — and I’m not sure we really care.”

Star Man posted:

I keep saying millennials are the new boomers, but no one in my own generational cohort believes me. Alphas are going to be fuckin ruthless.

And then when the Zoomers get older they'll be the lovely managers. Tale as old as time.

I'm reasonably certain that 1000 years from now people will still be complaining about their lovely managers.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply