(Thread IKs:
fatherboxx)
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Ynglaur posted:The US is changing to 6.8mm for infantry, scouts, combat engineers, and special forces, too. I have a bunch of thoughts on that new platform in the context of what we're learning in the War in Ukraine. I just need to find time to write it (and, honestly, I'm unsure if regulars itt would even be interested.) I'd also be interested on the sources for your body ratios in urban combat! Any good reading recommendations?
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Apr 5, 2023 00:38
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OddObserver posted:There is more than that... Another one seems to list what units are receiving what equipment and when. If a piece of information is included in a Secret report and is held on a Secret network, it becomes classified as Secret until it's re-vetted and released onto less secure networks.
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Apr 7, 2023 10:39
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Tigey posted:
I can say that for a plain-jane Secret clearance, they do not ask. It's pretty bog-standard "do you hold foreign accounts" or "do you personally know a foreign government official" style questions. Also, the ever present "do you want to overthrow the government of the United States" lol.
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Apr 10, 2023 22:38
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I was a M2 Bradley gunner back in 07-08. We used ERA during the surge. I never had mine go off from a hit but I saw a few in the boneyard that had. I can tell you that once the ERA on one of the Bradleys goes off it does save the vehicle but there can be some shock damage to the systems. Saw commo and electronics detached in the turret and hull space. Also, the rail system that holds the blocks in place will most likely need to be replaced as the heat and pressure warp them. The blocks slide down like Tetris pieces in the rail, weight about 50-100 pounds depending on if they are turret or hull blocks, and are fuckin impossible to remove if the rail holding them gets bent or blocked
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Jun 2, 2023 12:07
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Moon Slayer posted:I remember pictures coming out of Ukrainian infantry squads in spring/summer 2022 and people with military experience going "huh, usually a Western squad would have one person carrying an ATM system not ... everybody carrying two or three." I'm honestly not sure what U.S. doctrine is these days on that. Back when I had knees and was light infantry, we had one AT-4 per fire team and one Javelin per squad. This was 2003-2006. Can't remember what we had when I was mechanized infantry (2007-2009) but we relied on the Bradleys to carry a lot of our poo poo too.
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Jun 4, 2023 01:04
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I wonder if Ukraine is using the MICLICs they got sent last year https://twitter.com/UAWeapons/status/1589269985838632963?t=biSwxgwlDKO-1b9d-jLexw&s=19 . Mechanical breaching with a plow SUCKS compared to explosive breaching. Then again, they may have already used them all up.
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Jun 9, 2023 23:25
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Breaching a mine/wire obstacle is brutal in the best of conditions. If an obstacle has proper overwatch from the defender it will be a meat grinder regardless of the quality of the attacking force. U.S. doctrine calls for multiple contingencies for each breach location with the expectation that if successful the last contingency will likely finish the job. The combat engineers performing the breaches are expected to be eliminated/Non-Mission Capable win or lose.
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Jun 11, 2023 23:08
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Warbadger posted:The newer stuff is better on the protection side with better protection from shock and spall for the people inside, less chance of burning everyone alive if the fuel lights up, better escape options to improve the odds of escaping stricken vehicle, etc. Problem with MRAPs are that many models are top-heavy as gently caress. Also, just plain heavy as gently caress. A track can keep some agility with all that weight, MRAPs have better be on nice, solid, dry ground or you're gonna get stuck, roll over or left behind.
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Jun 13, 2023 20:56
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Speaking as a former sapper NCO and current engineer officer: I don't think western audiences are prepared to see the aftermath of a modern breaching operation. The sheer body count the sappers take in a breach is appalling. I hope to loving whatever that I never have to see one in real life because it will be brutal.
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Jun 16, 2023 14:42
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alex314 posted:Also sounds like something that gives a lot of useful marketable skills in mining, construction, excavation etc. Military demo doesn't have much crossover to civilian demo. Not in my experience anyway. I've never been EOD so I don't know about them. Military demo is made to be very easy and the math to calculate the amount of Boom you need is super simple. Construction and excavation that's transfers to civilian markets is absolutely a thing though. But that's less the realm of sappers in the U.S. Army. We have specific jobs for that.
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Jun 16, 2023 19:46
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mlmp08 posted:The biggest difference might be less the couple hours of actual breaching and more the corps and division-level shaping that takes place prior to the breach. This video is literally the standard the U.S. uses at its engineer school as an example of a textbook breach. The simulation was created based off an actual breach conducted in the 90's by an ABCT at the National Training Center. Some of our equipment has had some minor upgrades since then but it's essentially the same because no one wants to spend money upgrading engineer equipment when there's some sexy guns to develop.
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Jun 16, 2023 22:51
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Mr. Apollo posted:How does the ABV place the lane markers? Are there little automated arms that come out and stick the lane markers into the ground? They are doohickeys on the sides near the back that shoot the stakes in. It's pretty unreliable though depending on the terrain. That's why a squad of dismounts are tasked with doing the lane marking as well. Essentially it's a box that pneumatically drives the stakes in and it's fed from a hopper. But if the grounds hard or it hits a rock or the vehicle hits a bump or the winds too high or God hates you, it's going to fall over.
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Jun 17, 2023 02:35
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My reserve unit still actively use our M113s. We got notified to fix them up to "10-20" standard - basically as new as we could make them - to get shipped to Ukraine. I can't tell you the dollar value on the equipment but I can say that it's still kept up with. The U.S. has something called a MEL, the maintenance expenditure limit. It calculates the age of the equipment and the cost to repair. Once a certain piece hits a dollar value threshold to maintain, it goes "beyond MEL" and is either disposed of or evacced to a depot for refurb. My really roundabout point is, not all the equipment being sent is written off stuff that has been sitting in storage. It was actively used and now we have to replace it with something.
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Jun 21, 2023 12:51
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Cicero posted:Most of it isn't that high end though. A lot of the stuff transferred has been because Western countries are in the middle of replacing them. Humvees and Maxxpros being (partially) replaced by JLTV's, F-16's being replaced by F-35's, M16's having gotten replaced by M4's and soon my M5's. And even stuff that isn't being replaced yet, like Bradley's and Abrams, are usually older reserve stock. Yeah, I used a PVS-14 monocle NVD way back in 2003 through 2013. Every single soldier used that. In 2013, we had a thermal optic to go along with it. In the reserves now and we are still using the 14s. I'm sure my active duty counterparts have better stuff now Same with with Javelins. We carried one per squad and one AT-4 per fire team. Maxpros, Bradleys, humvees, M113s, M16s - Seeing everything from the last 20 years being used in an real shooting war is a Who's Who of my career.
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Jun 28, 2023 10:50
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Chalks posted:If it is satellite camouflage designed to gently caress with AI it would be pretty novel. Select all pictures of warships currently on fire [I am not a robot]
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Jun 28, 2023 22:42
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U.S. ADAM/RAAM mine dispersing shells are sometimes included as cluster munitions depending on whose reporting. U.S. doctrine mainly uses them for disruption of enemy attacks but they have an absolute shitload since they are utterly useless in COIN warfare. I could see them being sent. The are programmable to self-detonate a set amount of time after dropping (~10% failure on self-detonate), each shell has 4 antitank mines and I think 12 anti personnel mines. The mines shoot little trip wires out in random directions and anything they disturbs them causes the mine to go off. Seeing how innovative Ukraine has been, I can see them repurposing them to suit their needs.
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Jul 7, 2023 17:21
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WarpedLichen posted:They probably come in many forms but per the CNN interview with Biden, the ones being sent now are compatible with 155mm artillery. Pretty vague on what's being sent but I think it points to what I said earlier. 155mm ADAM/RAAM scatterable mines.
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Jul 8, 2023 01:49
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Enjoy posted:Ukraine is conducting offensive actions against dug-in infantry, they are not conducting defensive actions against massed armour in the open. Scatterable mines are used in offensive operations to fix/turn/block an enemy counterattack or attempts to concentrate defense in an area. It's a gamble for the attacker though since they now have to deal with a minefield to continue their advance.
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Jul 8, 2023 13:05
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Dull Fork posted:Oof yeah, good point. Let's hope those alternate ways of detecting ordinance have improved. A lot of systems these days, hand held and vehicle mounted, use ground penetrating radar. It's effective against just about anything that has a cataloged signature. It's very exhausting to use though (or it was in 2013 when I last used one) since you have to be able to read the output and make a determination if something is dangerous or not. And doing that while sweating bullets looks for explosive hazards is always stressful as balls.
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Jul 10, 2023 01:45
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Xiahou Dun posted:Exhausting as in “tedious and methodical”, “stressful”, “requiring great mental strain”, “physically taxing” or…? Like would you describe it as “exhausting” in general, even if it wasn’t UXO and just a bunch of potsherds? It's mentally and emotionally draining no matter the system. Hand helds add in physically draining as you actually carry the system. Vehicle mounted is easier on your body but just as bad as you have the sounds as well as a graphical read-out to decipher. Is that "plk-wrrrrr" just a change in soil density or a bomb? Did the ground type change? Should I have recalibrated? Am I about to die? Is someone going to shoot me while I'm looking down as the ground? gently caress it's hot/cold out her. My forearm feels like it's going to go off. Will I gently caress up and the guy behind me step on something? Just to clarify, this is still better than straight metal detectors. I used a Minehound for a handheld and a GPR-mounted Husky vehicle. Having used several older systems like a PSS-14 and GIZMO, they are great systems. It's just the job sucks. Edit:\/\/ lol yeah, I imagine you have to be much more methodical than I ever had to be. Clearing a walk/driving path is a much different ballgame than clearing an area. Dirt5o8 fucked around with this message at 03:10 on Jul 10, 2023 |
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Jul 10, 2023 03:02
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Ynglaur posted:
Changing the make-up of squads and PLTs will only be difficult in official doctrine. Units regularly buttfuck doctrine and organize anyway they see fit. My airborne infantry unit often rolled 12 deep too. 9 light and a heavy weapon team. Mechanized infantry we only kept the driver and gunner in the Bradley, everyone else dismounted to make 3 plussed up squads. As a sapper, we had 2 9-man squads but on missions went as 3 elements: Dismounts, security and IED search/clear. I did a brief stint with an MP company when I was a cadet. They rolled in 10-man squads, 3 fire teams and a squad leader. Being MPs, the teams were pretty drat light on firepower but I definitely liked the options it gave to a PL. I don't believe manning will be an issue if it's to stuff bodies into new toys.
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Jul 12, 2023 11:24
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Third, crew and passengers
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MikeC posted:
They will work in a pinch. In my younger and dumber days, I often forgot or lost my earplugs at the range. Lots of Privates had a pocket full of butts from either their own habit or because they were made to police call someone else's mess. It was better than going completely deaf anyway.
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Jul 13, 2023 11:29
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The U.S. army has made a strong push to regain basic Soldiering skills used in LSCO that atrophied during OIF/OEF. We train very hard on "analog" skills for the very real possiblity that the networks will go down. Map reading, battle tracking, multiple redundancy for communication are all prioritized. The gee-whiz technology is still common place in higher echelons and during war time deployments but during training it's generally sidelined to ensure Soldiers know how to do the basics. I mean, yeah, we don't use drones and tablets as much at lower levels compared to other countries we train with but I think there could be a misunderstanding about the methodology the trainers are using. I also agree that the U.S. has not experienced LSCO in the current generation of Soldiers so there is a disconnect there as well.
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Jul 14, 2023 04:04
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Tuna-Fish posted:Selfquote to add: I can't find the other presentation, but some high-up army guy explained the rationale somewhere, and beyond AA, they want ability to clear obstacles. By his telling, in Iraq they were perfectly happy with Bradley's ability to poke holes in things, but if someone piled up more than 10 bricks on a road, a Bradley had to either expend a tow, have someone dismount to clear it, or call up help from above because the 25mm HE was just anemic at moving earth. Therefore, 50mm with rounds that carry a very nice big HE charge. If you could find it, I would be really interested in this guy's take on it. Moving dirt isn't really the Bradley's mission. I haven't worked with the engineer mod of it but it's pretty lightweight for that kind of work
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Jul 14, 2023 15:06
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Ynglaur posted:Yes. Ukrainian units seem to be pretty solid tactically: call it company-sized actions and smaller (~150 or fewer soldiers). Operations--which is all about sequencing and synchronizing actions by different units with different capabilities--is where they are struggling. Additionally, U.S. officers spend a large portion of their formal military education learning to be cogs in a headquarters staff wargaming these steps. And they still gently caress it up badly, quite often. Synchronizing efforts from multiple specialist organizations is hard. Especially when you don't personally have experience with that specific skill or you're dealing with unfamiliar equipment.
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Jul 18, 2023 20:29
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Scratch Monkey posted:Interesting note: That's just a byproduct of the system they are using. Marks things for the viewer for ease of ID
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Jul 19, 2023 22:21
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BabyFur Denny posted:The current level of military spending produced enough surplus hand-me-down equipment to keep Russia with its entire Soviet ERA equipment at bay. I think the biggest issue with alliance networks is if you are depending on one country too much when their political leadership shits itself. See the U.S. under Trump when he talked about leaving NATO. So yeah, build a strong alliance but make sure it can survive if a keystone country, providing a large percentage of the collective defense, drops the ball.
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Jul 20, 2023 15:41
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BabyFur Denny posted:Exactly. We need to put the money towards making peoples lives better, not tanks and planes, in order to prevent further drift towards fascism. We need healthy and secure democracies that are resistant to subversion, and confident in weathering the economic fallout of prolonged economic sanctions. We can't have more Hungarys in our alliances, especially not in an actual core country like UK, France or Germany. That is not something that can be fixed by having more bombs. I agree with all of that but the need for bombs. They will unfortunately always be needed to defend those strong democracies. Countries like the U.S. could absolutely do both AND support our allies if we weren't so broke-brain.
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Jul 20, 2023 16:05
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WarpedLichen posted:The Ukrainians have issued an evacuation notice around Kupiansk. This is just the saddest poo poo ever. Thinking of my 3-year old stuck in a warzone is a nightmare. Preschool...
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Aug 11, 2023 03:09
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Doing my semi-annual Army Engineer Post for the thread. My background is 21 years in the U.S. Army, the last 15 as a combat engineer or engineer officer. Clearing mines under fire is the ultimate nightmare for combat engineers, not to mention their commanders who have to plan and resource the operation. As mentioned a few times above: line charges, like the MICLIC, just push mines out of a narrow zone so forces can push thru a lane and secure the far side. Called a Breach, it assumes the attacking force is leaving the mines for someone else to deal with and just wants to get past them and to the enemy as quickly as possible. Even explosively cleared lanes need to be proofed then marked safe. Those are all separate steps with different equipment or people. A vehicle with a plow or rollers follows the line charge and makes sure all the mines are detonated. You keep a few of those on standby in case the primary hits a mine mid-chasis or eats a missile. Then some dudes run out there and triple-check while laying out markers to show the safe route. Once done the attacking force rolls over the markers dead bodies and onto the objective. This whole (U.S. focused) mission is supported by ungodly amounts of tanks in support by fire positions, artillery, CAS, attack aviation, etc. Doing it piecemeal or on a budget like Ukraine is forced to do has no good solutions. There are some options available that I used back in 2013 that could still be around. There are robot mine clearing machines the size of a small bulldozer with flails to safely clear small lanes for foot traffic. There are also ground penetrating radar in several different forms - handheld, drone, etc - that improve detection. Thermal was huge for us in Afghanistan as well. Having enough to go around was always an issue. A favorite trick we used in the palm groves of Iraq was controlled burns. That detonated lots of IEDs, mines and caches but was expensive as we had to coordinate and pay the landowner. Not sure how well that would work on an open grass field of mines. Not enough fuel concentration to heat the little bastards up, I'd guess. Unfortunately, the tried and true method is a guy with a non-metallic rod and a grappling hook, slowly clearing a shoulder width path at 5-10 meters an hour. Best option that I can see from the sidelines is Ukraine has to make a hard choice to move artillery from elsewhere to concentrate on where they want to breach. Artillery is the one spot you can't skimp on if you want through a minefield. You need suppression on defenders and their artillery as well as TONs of smoke. Like 1 smoke round for every HE going out. Skip tanks, jets, drones, just get more tubes and rockets to the location. Just to caveat some stuff, there are some other options the U.S. has but since I have not seen it mentioned on the news or the internet, I won't talk about them here
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Aug 15, 2023 13:01
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The Lone Badger posted:How deeply are mines usually buried? Generally, the clearing and proofing method will try to cover all your bases but the vast majority of them literally beat the poo poo out of the mine to induce detonation. Most mines are super cheap since they are made for massive deployment. Even raising the cost a little changes the cost factor to use them a lot. The U.S. has some fancy mines that shoot out trip wires in several directions and they are programmed to destroy themselves after a maximum timeline (a few days). They don't need to be fancier to do their job. The strategy behind (U.S.) mine doctrine is to use mines to supplement direct fire platforms placed behind it (tanks, dudes with gun, etc). This is supposed to be a temporary phase while your forces prepare an attack. We personally have nothing in the books that I know of that accounts for minefields on the scale Russia is using them. But also, it's a very small chance you'd run into a thermal or magnetic triggered mine. Majority will be simple tilt - rod or pressure plate.
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Aug 15, 2023 16:59
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OzyMandrill posted:There's an article I read recently interviewing sappers, and Russia is deploying anti personnel mines that use seismic footstep sensors, and shoot a charge up to chest height to explode razor shards 360 degrees up to 30m. Those are the most feared. POM3 I think they are called? Is that in English? I'd love to read it. I haven't seen a breakdown of what mines are in use, I'm just working on the assumption that the massive, truck laid minefields are the standard surface-lay variety. Cheap and easy to produce
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Aug 15, 2023 22:26
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Along with more tanks/IFVs/jets/artillery, I'd like to see Ukraine get more haul- and engineer-assets. LMTVs (cargo trucks), heavy equipment hauling trucks, troop carriers, bulldozers, backhoe loaders, etc. They are arguably as important as weapon systems and act as force multipliers on the attack and defense. Cargo movers seems obvious but are crazy versatile on the attack or defense. Fuel, ammo, food, and troops always need to be moved, concentrated or dispersed. Vehicles of all types are better hauled than moved under power due to the maintenance costs. Bulldozers, like the D7, are an absolute workhorse. Digging fighting positions, mine/obstacle clearance and emplacement, setting up logistics hubs, making combat roads and trails. They do just about everything. Same with BHLs, graders, excavators. poo poo, just engineers and their equipment in general. Just flood Ukraine with engineer assets and trained personnel.
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Aug 21, 2023 18:31
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Comstar posted:Looks like they blew up a permanent radar station the Russian's built after 2014. Which probably put a VERY big hole in their air defence and I doubt they have many mobile stations around left to fill it. Not doubting what you saw but do you have the source? That a pretty significant claim by Ukraine and a spot on assessment of a huge problem for Russia if true. Edit: significant because mobile platforms are super useful and if planted on the high ground get very good coverage. They are limited by the power they can push into the air though since they can't generally link into a power grid. Stationary radar sites are crazy powerful detection assets and losing one can be like starting an avalanche if you can't plug the hole. If true, Ukraine can essentially start chewing the air defenses up from that former coverage site outward, like an expanding bubble. It's a feedback loop of lost coverage, lose one, less detection, so you lose more. (My source: worked closely with some Air Defense officers for an exercise. We got drunk and talked shop, this is what I remember. And yeah, we were all huge nerds to be talking about it) Dirt5o8 fucked around with this message at 13:24 on Aug 24, 2023 |
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Aug 24, 2023 13:18
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That mechanized breach video has been circulated in U.S. Army training schools for years. It is the ideal breach conditions and works under a lot of assumptions ("everything" superiority). Like someone else said, it's easy mode. The biggest weakness of U.S. training, as noted by Ukrainian soldiers going through that training, is scale. That brigade running the exercise was the absolute largest formation that the national training centers can support at once. So, one ABCT, a hand waved 100-200 meter deep mine field and a company to battalion sized OPFOR. Ukraine and Russia are now the leading experts in the world at actual formation-on-formation warfare. My point is, I don't think we can use any equivalent from the last 40 years to compare with what's happening on the ground now. Especially considering the addition of newer technology like drones.
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Aug 29, 2023 19:19
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Russia also isn’t really that much bigger than Ukraine in population. It’s about 3x, which is big but it’s not infinite hordes. Not falling for that one again. We remember 1812. Nice try
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Aug 29, 2023 22:06
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Snowman_McK posted:So glad to find this thread. It's been very difficult to find any clear sources on this conflict for the same reason it was hard to find clear answers on Covid. I think they fed most of their existing training cadre to the grinder last year. It's honestly surprising to me that the quality of the mobiks wasn't lower considering the stories about the lack of training infrastructure.
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Aug 30, 2023 02:50
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Sorry to bring us back to drones but w/r/t drone swarms I found an article regarding the difficulties inherent to the current state of them. The article is U.S. focused and talks about the difficulty in manufacturing and controlling them. The tone is also pretty "rah-rah free market" but I think shows the troubles armies currently have fielding a drone swarm. I think the author, Andrew Merrick, is a Yale economist. https://breakingdefense.com/2023/09/for-replicator-to-work-the-pentagon-needs-to-directly-help-with-production/?amp=1 It's a longer article but here's a bit I felt relevant: quote:
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Sep 8, 2023 16:20
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evil_bunnY posted:depends on guidance type. GPS (excalibur) is a couple meters, laser (copperhead) you can prob pick which tooth you'd like to knock out of someone's mouth. Anecdotal but I've asked artillery guys about copperhead rounds a few times since 2015 and I don't think they're in use anymore. Even in Desert Storm the U.S. only fired about 70 of them. The fact the user had to be (relatively) close to laze the target made it not worth the bother over calling for fire traditionally until the advent of Excalibur rounds.
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Sep 15, 2023 21:00
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Avengers sit in the "close air protection" part of the defense bubble. They make their money with moving formations on the attack or in hasty defenses when enemy aircraft are most active. I have no experience with them as part of a static network so can't comment on that part.
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Sep 22, 2023 09:02
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