Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
(Thread IKs: fatherboxx)
 
  • Post
  • Reply
Pook Good Mook
Aug 6, 2013


ENFORCE THE UNITED STATES DRESS CODE AT ALL COSTS!

This message paid for by the Men's Wearhouse& Jos A Bank Lobbying Group

WarpedLichen posted:

https://notes.citeam.org/dispatch-mar-31-apr-1

I think Wagner has claimed a progress around he city center on 3/31 in the day with a different video. I wonder how risky the Prigozhin photo op is though, feeling some pressure perhaps?

There's a reason they did it at night.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Pook Good Mook
Aug 6, 2013


ENFORCE THE UNITED STATES DRESS CODE AT ALL COSTS!

This message paid for by the Men's Wearhouse& Jos A Bank Lobbying Group

Independence posted:

The thing looked like a black powder explosion with zero fragmentation. You can probably throw competence along with it being a strike by Ukraine out the window of ideas.

I also struggle to think of a time when Ukraine bothered with theater like this and/or didn't use ordinance to strike a useful target.

Like, they wouldn't be going after the loving flagpole, they would target the entire dome or even the executive office building. Better yet, they would target the rail infrastructure around the city.

Pook Good Mook
Aug 6, 2013


ENFORCE THE UNITED STATES DRESS CODE AT ALL COSTS!

This message paid for by the Men's Wearhouse& Jos A Bank Lobbying Group

stephenthinkpad posted:

That money IRC was about one month worth of Russian GDP. If it was used for reparation, it will surely trigger more sell off of US debt and bonds and moving toward non-Swift currency trade to decrease USD foreign reserve by Saudi and other countries. China is already doing it so I don't count them.

Countries have been threatening moves away from the dollar since the 1920s and they still haven't done it. They said exactly the same thing when America froze those assets in the first place.

In any event, that's not a good reason to not do the right thing.

Pook Good Mook fucked around with this message at 09:55 on May 10, 2023

Pook Good Mook
Aug 6, 2013


ENFORCE THE UNITED STATES DRESS CODE AT ALL COSTS!

This message paid for by the Men's Wearhouse& Jos A Bank Lobbying Group

Electric Wrigglies posted:

That's because historically, the US (like the British empire before it) respects loans and financial agreements above all other considerations. People within their own border may be paupered, morals may be bent but one thing that does not happen is the financial contract is reneged upon.

Once the money men no longer consider you a safe haven, then they will be desperate and unsympathetic in their pursuit of additional safety. It has been the ruin of many an empire over the course of history.

Where are they gonna go? No one wants to accept rubles, and no one trusts the Chinese banking and stock markets. Oil is traded in dollars and pounds and the two largest stock markets are in dollars. Of the top ten stock exchanges, 7 are "Western" markets.

Luxury goods markets and real estate will be affected for a few years, at most. None of the oligarchs will permanently stay away. They will still send their kids to school in London, they will still vacation in France, and they will still buy property in Miami. They can talk a big talk but none of them honestly want to cut the West or its decadence from their lives. They are greedy capitalists on their best days, and hypocrites on all the other days.

Pook Good Mook fucked around with this message at 12:09 on May 10, 2023

Pook Good Mook
Aug 6, 2013


ENFORCE THE UNITED STATES DRESS CODE AT ALL COSTS!

This message paid for by the Men's Wearhouse& Jos A Bank Lobbying Group

HonorableTB posted:

bigly coasts, the coldest and most frozen

The greenest from the standpoint of land.

Pook Good Mook
Aug 6, 2013


ENFORCE THE UNITED STATES DRESS CODE AT ALL COSTS!

This message paid for by the Men's Wearhouse& Jos A Bank Lobbying Group
The Saudis have a legitimate interest in isolating Russia and their oil sales at least.

Pook Good Mook
Aug 6, 2013


ENFORCE THE UNITED STATES DRESS CODE AT ALL COSTS!

This message paid for by the Men's Wearhouse& Jos A Bank Lobbying Group

Tesseraction posted:

Every now and again I do have to appreciate how Ukraine started this conflict off being invaded from three sides and not only held out but have pushed the battlefront east of the Dnieper. Finland's Winter War comes to mind, although I'm hoping this ends in happier circumstances.

The population disparity between Finland and the USSR was absurdly more imbalanced compared to this war. Finland had just shy of 4 million people, USSR had about 170 million. While still imbalanced, Ukraine-Russia is closer to 44-140 million. Finland was MUCH harder to supply with foreign aid in 1939-1940 than Ukraine is now, and there was an added wrinkle of geopolitics in 1939 where you risked sparking additional conflict between yourself, Germany, USSR, and the Allies if you overstepped.

That said, 1939 USSR didn't have nukes. I'm actually amazed at "the West" found its balls in this war.

Pook Good Mook
Aug 6, 2013


ENFORCE THE UNITED STATES DRESS CODE AT ALL COSTS!

This message paid for by the Men's Wearhouse& Jos A Bank Lobbying Group

Djarum posted:

I thought that the best place to hit was right at the waterline as it allows air to escape faster so water rushes in more quickly.

I take it then that drone boats are what you use when you can't afford or don't have low-flying anti-ship missiles and you can't get anything close enough to launch a torpedo?

Pook Good Mook
Aug 6, 2013


ENFORCE THE UNITED STATES DRESS CODE AT ALL COSTS!

This message paid for by the Men's Wearhouse& Jos A Bank Lobbying Group

Tigey posted:

This is likely at least partially motivated by the Putin arrest warrant, as Russia is utterly addicted to tit-fot-tat. Every perceived slight or hostile act has to be met with an 'equal and opposite' reaction, to domestically and internationally prove Russia's strength and that it is on 'equal footing' with the West, constantly 'holding its own'.

The thing is though, the actual substance of its tit-for-tat responses usually just highlight Russia's complete weakness and inability to respond to Western actions in any comparable way. Who the gently caress cares if they issue an arrest warrant for Lindsey Graham? Come back when you have the balls to issue one for Biden or Macron.

Add to that the fact it's only applicable in Russia, which highlights Russia's international isolation and weakness, whereas the ICC one which was international, which means Putin actually has to factor it in to some extent, ruling him out of being able to visit quite a few countries (and even more so in the case of that Children's Commissioner or whatever her name was). I doubt Graham gives a poo poo about being unable to visit Russia. I doubt anyone really does.

So Bald and Bankrupt is a legit sex pest, but he was one of the only English language channels making ANYTHING even approaching complimentary of visiting Russia or Russian culture. They booted his rear end out for mentioning that invading Ukraine was wrong.

Russia constantly makes themselves the most unfriendly industrialized country on Earth and then gets super defensive that no one seems to respect them.

Pook Good Mook
Aug 6, 2013


ENFORCE THE UNITED STATES DRESS CODE AT ALL COSTS!

This message paid for by the Men's Wearhouse& Jos A Bank Lobbying Group
Every vehicle can be a de-mining vehicle if you have enough of them.

Pook Good Mook
Aug 6, 2013


ENFORCE THE UNITED STATES DRESS CODE AT ALL COSTS!

This message paid for by the Men's Wearhouse& Jos A Bank Lobbying Group

Randarkman posted:

That's utterly false. It's only true if you decide to only count "aircraft directly killing combat vehicles in combat" and that's overlooking so much that it's ridiculous.

Ya, Germany was literally unable to move armor or large columns of men in the daytime in France 1944. It doesn't matter that the average plane of 1944 wasn't as accurate or efficient as modern airframes when the allies could send a dozen after you without having to worry about enemy pilots on their rear end.

Pook Good Mook
Aug 6, 2013


ENFORCE THE UNITED STATES DRESS CODE AT ALL COSTS!

This message paid for by the Men's Wearhouse& Jos A Bank Lobbying Group

Bar Ran Dun posted:

Houston has a lot of large immigrant communities. Russian propaganda is extremely heavy and effective in some countries and this also appears in related immigrant communities in the US.

Ship their asses back to Russia if that's how they feel.

Pook Good Mook
Aug 6, 2013


ENFORCE THE UNITED STATES DRESS CODE AT ALL COSTS!

This message paid for by the Men's Wearhouse& Jos A Bank Lobbying Group

fatherboxx posted:

You'd find more than often that the loudest pro-Putin Russian migrants are the ones that already got citizenship or long-term residence so kicking them out on the grounds of commiting some public disturbance is unlikely. Especially in the countries with reliable free speech protections.

Weird how all these patriots supporting expansionist genocides want to live other places

Pook Good Mook
Aug 6, 2013


ENFORCE THE UNITED STATES DRESS CODE AT ALL COSTS!

This message paid for by the Men's Wearhouse& Jos A Bank Lobbying Group

awesome-express posted:

The next call of duty and battlefield titles sure are getting some free writing inspiration from all of this wackiness

It was already hard to play Modern Warfare 2 when we were supposed to believe that Russia had enough lift capacity to invade the entire east coast. Now they need to model the games with the Russian army being complete boobs about everything.

Pook Good Mook
Aug 6, 2013


ENFORCE THE UNITED STATES DRESS CODE AT ALL COSTS!

This message paid for by the Men's Wearhouse& Jos A Bank Lobbying Group

Charliegrs posted:

Everyone's always talking about how bad Russia has performed in this war but honestly are they really doing that bad? Sure the blitzkrieg into Kyiv was a total failure but they seem to be holding their own against a military that has gotten a ton of high end western hardware and training.

Not to be pedantic, but it's hard to use words like "good" or "bad" when it comes to militaries. It's not really helpful. But what we do "know" or have seen:

Russia started a war of conquest against a country they planned on decapitating and then occupying, without an army large enough to occupy said country. Their military is noticeably less competent than we've been led to believe for 40 years, and their path to "victory" is a stalemate that will kill 100k+ of their standing army and god knows how much equipment.

Their intelligence, tactics, and strategy have all been head-scratching awful. The fact that they are effective at all is a reflection of sheer numbers more than competence.

Pook Good Mook
Aug 6, 2013


ENFORCE THE UNITED STATES DRESS CODE AT ALL COSTS!

This message paid for by the Men's Wearhouse& Jos A Bank Lobbying Group

Boris Galerkin posted:

Eh it’s not any worse than

Queen Elizabeth-class aircraft carrier HMS Queen Elizabeth

or

Gerald R. Ford-class aircraft carrier USS Gerald R. Ford

E: Seems to just be a Thing that they do :shrug:. The only weird thing imo is the UK using a living person’s name (well, living at the time) instead of someone dead and historical.

E2: On closer reading the Queen Elizabeth class/vessel was named after a much earlier Queen Elizabeth. Still sounds weird though since it’s easily confused for with the Queen Elizabeth that was still alive at the time they were named. EITHER WAY there is also a second UK aircraft carrier named the HMS Prince of Wales and well that dude is also still very much alive.

The QE class is a huge *wink wink* situation where convention wouldn't allow it named after a living monarch but everyone knows it was after the reigning monarch.

And Prince of Wales is named after the position, not the person.

Pook Good Mook
Aug 6, 2013


ENFORCE THE UNITED STATES DRESS CODE AT ALL COSTS!

This message paid for by the Men's Wearhouse& Jos A Bank Lobbying Group
Can Russia even manage to interdict cargo ships in the Black Sea? I remember them putting everything they had into port well away from the warzone after the Moskva was sunk lost in a fire because of their incompetence

Pook Good Mook
Aug 6, 2013


ENFORCE THE UNITED STATES DRESS CODE AT ALL COSTS!

This message paid for by the Men's Wearhouse& Jos A Bank Lobbying Group
There hasn't been a time in the past 350 years that Russia wasn't trying to expand, be imperialistic, and be a hegemon. It's not the West's fault that Russia constantly has to lose wars to learn the same lesson a dozen times.

Like, other countries lose wars and their land is annexed by the other side. Russia loses wars and provinces are liberated to local populations who hated being "Russian."

Pook Good Mook
Aug 6, 2013


ENFORCE THE UNITED STATES DRESS CODE AT ALL COSTS!

This message paid for by the Men's Wearhouse& Jos A Bank Lobbying Group

LifeSunDeath posted:

the cost ratio of these drones vs the targets they destroy is unbelievable. starting to wonder why we need big ships or tanks anymore since they can all get taken out by homebrew RC devices and C4.

Can't launch a tomahawk from a drone (yet).

And you need humans on a vessel going out on extended tours or into deep water, even if only to keep the machinery running.

Pook Good Mook
Aug 6, 2013


ENFORCE THE UNITED STATES DRESS CODE AT ALL COSTS!

This message paid for by the Men's Wearhouse& Jos A Bank Lobbying Group

Paranoea posted:

Nord Stream was a means of waging hybrid warfare on the EU and Germany specifically, and it was being used for that from '21 onwards (throttling gas flow due to "repairs" in order to starve Germany of gas reserves for the coming winter). It is objectively good that it's gone, and who ultimately blew it up is a red herring that should impact no one's opinion of the war, or influence any policy decisions.

Exactly my thoughts. Anyone upset about it, especially Europeans, seemed like they had been living in a fantasy land.

Pook Good Mook
Aug 6, 2013


ENFORCE THE UNITED STATES DRESS CODE AT ALL COSTS!

This message paid for by the Men's Wearhouse& Jos A Bank Lobbying Group
The US used targeted munitions, especially air power. Plus there was very little organized defense works on the part of Iraq or Afghanistan.

Pook Good Mook
Aug 6, 2013


ENFORCE THE UNITED STATES DRESS CODE AT ALL COSTS!

This message paid for by the Men's Wearhouse& Jos A Bank Lobbying Group

FrenzyTheKillbot posted:

Elon Musk seems to be the same sort of person as Steve Jobs, in that he is talented at knowing what ideas are worth backing and how to market them. But his recent comments about precision on the cybertruck shows he fails at very basic engineering stuff and has never been involved in any of the actual "work". And as you say, these people tend to overvalue their expertise in areas that they really shouldn't. See again Steve Jobs trying to cure his cancer with wheatgrass smoothies.

This might be a can of worms, but I can see how a company would be upset if they donated "product" for humanitarian purposes, and it ends up being used for direct offensive action. If Toyota sent a bunch of pickup trucks to be used to deliver aid supplies, and then they see them on the front line with machine guns bolted to the back, they'd be miffed. But of course, the right thing to do is not secretly sabotage their military efforts. And that concern should completely go away once the government starts paying you for the product to be used that way.

There's another couple things that really strike me about this story. First, that a Russian ambassador can so easily get Musk on the phone and threaten nuclear war to get him to do things. What kind of stupid world do we live in where this happens, and then he calls up his biographer to vent about it? And the second is how different Musk's version of the story is in his recent admission. He frames it as some spur of the moment request that he denied, when the story from his own biography is that he cut back service, mid mission, at the request of the Russians. I'd ask why he'd bother with such a dumb lie, but I guess it's further proof of how much he's lost touch with objective reality.

To the first part: LOL, the man bought Twitter for about 30% more than it was worth and then has further tanked it. The dude was rightly fired from Paypal when he tried to name that "X" 20 years ago, when "X" anything was actually popular. He was rich from apartheid era resource extraction industries, used that money to become even more rich by lucking into the right silicon valley investment, and has been coasting off that since. He's a venture capital vulture with no actual talent.

As to the second part, his story makes no sense because he's a self-aggrandizing liar talking about conversations with a cadre of liars (the Russian government). Don't twist yourself into knots trying to understand.

Pook Good Mook
Aug 6, 2013


ENFORCE THE UNITED STATES DRESS CODE AT ALL COSTS!

This message paid for by the Men's Wearhouse& Jos A Bank Lobbying Group

Nenonen posted:

lol anyone remember Austria's ex-foreign minister Karin Kneissl? The one who invited Putin to her own wedding?

in case you forgot here she's granting Vlad the prima nocta:



Well...

https://www.politico.eu/article/former-austrian-foreign-minister-karin-kneissl-putin-ally-moves-russia/

You just know how corrupt and empty the entire Russian system is when it has to work so hard on these outreach programs and actively court lunatic politicians all over the West. Like, imagine if there was a US friendly diplomat in Brussels that not only created a sham organization in Chicago on "US relations" but then moved there to "run the organization" after their career was over.

It's so transparently empty. They want everyone to take them seriously but they have to pay/bribe people to have anyone say something nice about them.

Pook Good Mook
Aug 6, 2013


ENFORCE THE UNITED STATES DRESS CODE AT ALL COSTS!

This message paid for by the Men's Wearhouse& Jos A Bank Lobbying Group

GABA ghoul posted:

What is the Atlantic Council?

That's existed for decades and is at least nominally independent. I'm talking the number of fake orgs popping up and dying in the course of one career that are just fronts to launder Russian lobbying money. Followed by the soft defections of the orgs' "leaders" once they've burned up their usefulness.

Pook Good Mook
Aug 6, 2013


ENFORCE THE UNITED STATES DRESS CODE AT ALL COSTS!

This message paid for by the Men's Wearhouse& Jos A Bank Lobbying Group

For all we know this is a repair yard for the vehicles themselves and while they wait for repairs they remove the barrels as those remain useful to the pieces in the field.

Pook Good Mook
Aug 6, 2013


ENFORCE THE UNITED STATES DRESS CODE AT ALL COSTS!

This message paid for by the Men's Wearhouse& Jos A Bank Lobbying Group

Nenonen posted:

That is a very large amount of casualties. It makes me wonder why there hasn't been more footage of a stream of ambulances driving between the HQ and hospitals. People have very quickly posted material from the drydock showing the damage to Rostov and the hits on the HQ, so I don't think that opsec is the reason. But maybe they have an army hospital in the vicinity of the HQ building and there was enough capacity to take everyone in. Remains to be seen.

They probably requisitioned most medical response personnel and vehicles that would have responded and sent them up to the front.

Pook Good Mook
Aug 6, 2013


ENFORCE THE UNITED STATES DRESS CODE AT ALL COSTS!

This message paid for by the Men's Wearhouse& Jos A Bank Lobbying Group
This war is going to be decided on the Russian domestic front before it's decided on the battlefield.

Pook Good Mook
Aug 6, 2013


ENFORCE THE UNITED STATES DRESS CODE AT ALL COSTS!

This message paid for by the Men's Wearhouse& Jos A Bank Lobbying Group
Ya Russia seems to have basically conceded they will not be gaining any more significant ground this war and are planning to win through attrition and waiting out western support.

Pook Good Mook
Aug 6, 2013


ENFORCE THE UNITED STATES DRESS CODE AT ALL COSTS!

This message paid for by the Men's Wearhouse& Jos A Bank Lobbying Group

Charliegrs posted:

Isn't this basically what it's been for Russia for well over a year now? It's just that they have sooooo many more bodies to throw at this war.

Having and using are different things. I don't know when or where the line is, but there is a breaking point where internal political pressure makes further mobilization not feasible for Russia.

Pook Good Mook
Aug 6, 2013


ENFORCE THE UNITED STATES DRESS CODE AT ALL COSTS!

This message paid for by the Men's Wearhouse& Jos A Bank Lobbying Group

Who by the way are mostly all dead at this point because Russia used them as cannon fodder in the time before they came around to mobilization.

Pook Good Mook
Aug 6, 2013


ENFORCE THE UNITED STATES DRESS CODE AT ALL COSTS!

This message paid for by the Men's Wearhouse& Jos A Bank Lobbying Group

Moon Slayer posted:

https://twitter.com/peterbakernyt/status/1712876921770443044?t=Sm78e_dsDAHyZ3Tv_3gXDw&s=19

I didn't have "North Korea gets a more powerful military" on my Geopolitical Fallout From Russia's Invasion bingo card, but here we are.

Oh no, lovely Russian weapons that N. Korea can't afford to maintain or use. Whatever shall the world do.

Pook Good Mook
Aug 6, 2013


ENFORCE THE UNITED STATES DRESS CODE AT ALL COSTS!

This message paid for by the Men's Wearhouse& Jos A Bank Lobbying Group

Dopilsya posted:

From the Russian perspective, what is the benefit to doing this as opposed to some statement like "we abhor the loss of life on all sides"? Is the assumption that Israel isn't in a position to offer anything to Ukraine anyway so might as well bolster credentials with the Arab states/OIC?

Keeping Iran happy is more important than keeping Israel happy

Pook Good Mook
Aug 6, 2013


ENFORCE THE UNITED STATES DRESS CODE AT ALL COSTS!

This message paid for by the Men's Wearhouse& Jos A Bank Lobbying Group
That will just make truck-bombing it that much more effective.

Pook Good Mook
Aug 6, 2013


ENFORCE THE UNITED STATES DRESS CODE AT ALL COSTS!

This message paid for by the Men's Wearhouse& Jos A Bank Lobbying Group

Ynglaur posted:

gently caress the Republican Party. Cowards all.

Obviously but also gently caress the Europeans who have been happy to let America subsidize their defense for the past 25 years. Especially the last 15 when Putin stopped being subtle. If the defense of a continent is left up to the whims of the US House don't be surprised when they do the stupidest things imaginable.

Pook Good Mook
Aug 6, 2013


ENFORCE THE UNITED STATES DRESS CODE AT ALL COSTS!

This message paid for by the Men's Wearhouse& Jos A Bank Lobbying Group

Atreiden posted:

Except Europe have provided far more economical assistance, taken in far more refugees, provided more military training and hardware than the U.S. like your entire post is completely wrong.

Best I can find:

EU has spent approx. $90 on assisting Ukraine; $18 billion in refugee assistance, $29 billion in military aid, and $43 billion in general financial support (though some of those are "loans").

https://www.eeas.europa.eu/delegati...ort%20in%202022

As of Oct. 1, US has spent approximately $76 billion; $4 billion for humanitarian aid, $26.5 billion on financial aid (again some "loans"), and $46.5 billion on military aid.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/how-much-aid-the-u-s-has-sent-to-ukraine-in-6-charts

Biden remains empowered to provide lend-lease assistance to Ukraine (military hardware), but needs Congressional approval for direct money disbursements.

I'm going to be blunt, but this board is talking out of two sides of its mouth. It's either been that the USA is indispensable and Ukraine NEEDS additional American assistance, or Europe can figure this out on its own. More realistically, the answer is that Europe could do this on their own, but there would be a level of government spending they are loath to take on. And on the topic of "world police," if the same countries that (rightfully) raged about America's forever wars in the Mideast are now angry that the same loving government is unreliable, I don't know what they expected.

Europe made their bed with 30 years of taking cheap Russian gas and enabling some of the worst people on the continent while at the same time willfully ignoring their military adventurism, AND failing to fund their own defense. And now they're upset because one of the most politically unreliable bodies in the world is unreliable? Give me a break. For gently caress's sake, Italy held up the initial aid packages because they wanted to protect their luxury goods markets in Eastern Europe. And when western governments can't even define what "victory" will be it's not surprising that democratic countries are going to become more and more unwilling to provide funding when there continues to be inflation in their own countries.

Pook Good Mook
Aug 6, 2013


ENFORCE THE UNITED STATES DRESS CODE AT ALL COSTS!

This message paid for by the Men's Wearhouse& Jos A Bank Lobbying Group

Atreiden posted:

You would have to add individual countries spending to this. Including both countries in the EU and European countries outside the EU.

From the link:

"Collective EU and EU Member State support to Ukraine includes"'

Though in fairness that wouldn't include the UK, which apparently is 4.5 billion pounds.

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-9477/

Pook Good Mook fucked around with this message at 18:20 on Dec 5, 2023

Pook Good Mook
Aug 6, 2013


ENFORCE THE UNITED STATES DRESS CODE AT ALL COSTS!

This message paid for by the Men's Wearhouse& Jos A Bank Lobbying Group

Ya that's why I put them in quotes. I have to guess that you can get "loan" assistance from different pots of money that are easier to disburse for whatever reason. I doubt Ukraine is obligated to pay them back, or if they are, it will be over decades at minimal interest the same way the WW1 loans to Britain were paid.

Pook Good Mook
Aug 6, 2013


ENFORCE THE UNITED STATES DRESS CODE AT ALL COSTS!

This message paid for by the Men's Wearhouse& Jos A Bank Lobbying Group

Glah posted:

If USA is "one of the most politically unreliable bodies in the world", then EU is the most politically unreliable body in the world. Because EU isn't in anyway a coherent political body in the first place. When you say that Europe made their bed by relying on cheap Russian gas, you are talking about Germany but not for example France whose energy infra is more nuclear. When you say Europe failed to fund their own defense, you are (once again) talking about countries like Germany, while countries like Poland and France have large militaries, or Finland that has conscription where 80% of males serve or are in the reserves. When people talk about Europe doing anything it implies that Commission has all the power. But they don't, in reality Europe is divided in many things, including supporting Ukraine (just look at Hungary). When US elects a government, we can at least trust them to be consistent for their mandate period. EU never really achieves that, because the politics are constantly changing among 27 member states. Atleast US speaks with one voice for four year periods while EU has a constant split personality disorder.

So if we shouldn't give poo poo to US for being unreliable regarding Ukraine because it should be a given looking at their political system, then we really shouldn't give poo poo to "Europe" either because expecting it to do anything effective is like expecting a herd of hungry cats to stay still. Frankly I find it (pleasantly) surprising that EU has been able to do this much for Ukraine.

Lest we forget, NATO predates the EU. In 1.5 years after the invasion started, most of the European NATO countries, especially the richer ones, STILL aren't meeting their treaty obligations. https://www.statista.com/statistics/584088/defense-expenditures-of-nato-countries/

Pook Good Mook
Aug 6, 2013


ENFORCE THE UNITED STATES DRESS CODE AT ALL COSTS!

This message paid for by the Men's Wearhouse& Jos A Bank Lobbying Group

Raenir Salazar posted:

So, I think in the end this is probably not very true; because there's already hundreds of thousands of soldiers, an extra division isn't going to help Ukraine swiftly retake territory, a few dozen vehicles also isn't going to help. What would probably be disasterous for Russia is something like 100k ~10 divisions of troops, ~100 modern airframe ~1000 ifvs and ~300 modern afvs, hundreds of artillery systems and all of the logistics for that.

This basically means like France, UK, maybe Poland, and of course the US are basically the only viable member NATO states who could help turn the tide. Most of the NATO members just don't have the active trained and equipped troops.

Also the biggest issue is munition production; if France sends 3 divisions but there's no uptick in munition production then those troops are just manning trenches, sure its useful to rotate more troops around to the rear; but Ukraine needs so many shells.

Presumably NATO is just donating the stocks they can "spare" and it would be different if they were directly involved, but this probably only buys Ukraine like 3-6 months of extra munitions before waiting for France, Germany, etc to ramp up production.

The difference maker if a NATO country entered wouldn't be army divisions, it would be functional, well-funded, and sophisticated air power. I don't know enough to know what anti-air capabilities Russia has against a country that is trained to use modern western aircraft compared to the hodgepodge air force Ukraine is left with, but air power was always where NATO put its money, even back to the 70's and 80's. Someone asked last week what type of "weapon" Ukraine needs that it currently lacks that would make a day one difference. Someone correctly answered "American carrier battle group."

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Pook Good Mook
Aug 6, 2013


ENFORCE THE UNITED STATES DRESS CODE AT ALL COSTS!

This message paid for by the Men's Wearhouse& Jos A Bank Lobbying Group

Dapper_Swindler posted:

https://twitter.com/United24media/status/1768203445834518845

i am sorta curious what made her 180 this much. easy answer would be "cheque bounced" but i am curious if its a mix of some new intel mixed with german flubbing a bunch and france seeing an opertunity to lead mixed with Russia being a detriment to parts of the europian right now.

It's to win the election. She'll undoubtedly turn her back if/when she wins.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply