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I'm confused about one small detail in the game. At one point I was talking to an NPC near the giant waterfall crater and they talked about how people in the past (I think it was the the fallen, but I can't recall if he said that specifically or I assumed it) had risen up in defiance and Ultima couldn't stand that so he smashed them and their crystal. But I didn't think Ultima's existence was supposed to be common knowledge? Why was that one dude talking like it was just part of a standard history lesson?
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Jul 3, 2023 03:42
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| # ¿ May 19, 2024 20:56 |
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Aah, guess I imagined the proper noun then. I’m a little unclear on who the fallen were. I’m pretty sure they were a past human civilization that ran afoul of Ultima, but I’m not certain that they weren’t just Ultima’s people’s civilization. Is that totally clarified at any point? Bugblatter fucked around with this message at 04:35 on Jul 3, 2023 |
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Jul 3, 2023 04:32
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Ah, I should check those I guess. I’m a little unsure how to max my lore level too. In NG+ it’s still just a few pixels shy of the final level. I did all the side quests and hunts, so I guess there’s just some random flavor text I didn’t click on somewhere in the world?
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Jul 3, 2023 04:46
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Ah, yeah I started just Chocoboing past open world mobs when I realized they were boring to fight and gave no real reward. Also might be an area I didn’t visit, since the trophy for visiting every area is at 98% completion. I stared so long at the maps trying to figure out what corner I hadn’t walked in before giving up.
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Jul 3, 2023 05:06
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Not just why does he appear as Joshua, but why does he appear as Joshua from the future when he first shows up at Phoenix Gate? Can he see the future to know what Joshua would look like and be wearing? If he can see that why doesn’t he seem to predict much else? And if he can see that… still what purpose does it serve?
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Jul 3, 2023 14:45
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If Square actually did put that much thought into the depiction of the night sky, I wonder if there’s more thought into Metia than I’d assumed. It doesn’t make sense for it to be a star or a planet since its proximity to the moon seems set. Seems like it’d have to be another satellite of Valisthea. As for Ultima, I’d initially thought we was an alien, but something in the lore later made me think otherwise and he’d just come from elsewhere on Valisthea. I can’t recall what it was that made me change my mind though.
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Jul 4, 2023 03:00
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Yeah, I can’t recall what made me rule out aliens because everything seems to support it. It’s funny that they intentionally took inspiration from GRRM’s GoT story, but coincidentally wound up just as close to his Elden Ring story, what with ancient aliens planting giant structures that humans revere but are actually parasitic. Cephas posted:I assumed Ultima was an alien, much of the ancient ruins were the hulls of crashed spacecrafts and satellites, all the 'meteorite' upgrade materials were bits of high-tech debris from the lost space age, and that Metia was some kind of satellite or space station or something. But that's also largely bc I was reading into the influences that Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind had on the setting. I’ve read the Nausicaa manga many times. Since when did it have aliens?
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Jul 4, 2023 03:51
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Cephas posted:Nausicaa doesn't have aliens, but it does have the whole deal with nations conquering each other to gain territory as a spreading climate-change blight renders the land unusable. And also there being towns built into the ruins of ancient indestructible space crafts And the current inhabitants of the planet being an expendable means to an end for the original humans who are preserved in a high-tech facility waiting for their terraforming operation to be complete. And a blight that they caused. Yeah, lots of parallels for sure.
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Jul 4, 2023 04:39
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Mid’s engines use magitek though, don’t they? So presumably they won’t still work now that Clive has removed magic from the world.
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Jul 5, 2023 02:53
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Yeah, strongly recommended that you just quickly craft and purchase one of each sword before running into NG+. You'll probably have plenty of money to do so. If you don't, crafting the swords you're expected to have for each dungeon is likely to be a little more of a hassle. Also, crafting the ultimate sword will be impossible if you don't. The game really isn't nice to people who just want to have the character action game experience.
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Jul 5, 2023 07:39
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Heithinn Grasida posted:Oh well that sucks. I guess I have to finish off side quests and do the end of the game again first. At least I made a save right before going to Origin and didn’t overwrite it with my postgame save. Gotterdammerung has some fun fights to earn it at least. If you have the other swords that's the only thing you need to do before going into NG+.
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Jul 5, 2023 07:49
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Leviathan was presented as having died long ago when Ultima cratered the fallen civilization in the south, no?
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Jul 6, 2023 00:13
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Barnabas is the dominant of darkness, he's unaging, there are no other recorded dominants for Odin in history, and he came from the mainland beyond the twins. But the tribe for the Eikon of darkness was in the south? I missed that, don't see how it adds up.
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Jul 6, 2023 00:56
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Ah, I see. Incidentally, it’s kind of annoying that even though I’ve completed NG+ and nearly got the platinum trophy, I still don’t have a complete codex. It’s stuck a few pixels shy of the full level and missing a few articles, but I don’t know what I need to do to collect the last few and can’t find any guides online either. Annoying not to have all the information handy.
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Jul 6, 2023 01:10
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Nah. It’s in the mysteries of the world section. Four missing subjects in that part. I have all the critters and characters. I know at least one of them is for The Fallen because someone up thread mentioned you unlock an entry on them after finishing the game, but I have nothing. Hoffadoff posted:I figured Barnabas was immortal because Ultima wanted his little puppet to live forever and be around whenever he needed him. Probably easier for Ultima to keep the dude he's got wrapped around his finger alive than to try and find another one while he was waiting for mythos to show up. Yeah, I took it the same way. Also figured that Cid's time with Barnabas is how he knows who Ultima is when he shows up. What's everyone's take on Typhon? Seems like people are divided on him being a form of Ultima (Don't think so, he seems like a separate entity in the cutscene that follows) and being an Eikon without a dominant (also seems wrong, since Clive would have done his power suck thing if he was). I'm thinking maybe he's the ancient that formed himself into the crystal and we just never see the others manifest for... reasons??? Bugblatter fucked around with this message at 02:11 on Jul 6, 2023 |
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Jul 6, 2023 02:00
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16-2. In a world no longer poisoned by magic, Mid helps humanity survive by teaching them to use fossil fuels.
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Jul 6, 2023 03:37
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It’s like copying a file, I guess.
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Jul 8, 2023 00:59
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The depiction of the undying makes me easily believe they’d be the sorts to just say “eh, that guy isn’t the Phoenix, gently caress him.”
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Jul 8, 2023 01:23
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Is there any way to access the crystal wave you can see and that the bard mentions? Wonder if that's a DLC hook or just cut content.
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Jul 8, 2023 02:04
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Inside the door is a blitzball stadium.
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Jul 8, 2023 04:36
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In addition to Clive specifically saying bearers being one of the things he’ll end, in the post credits scene where the kid is lighting a fire with flint he wishes he could use magic and his mom laughs it off as a fairy tale. Pretty sure it’s all just gone.
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Jul 8, 2023 18:35
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The lead up to the final crystal being the last dungeon kind of sucks because it was just a bunch of identical ugly stone courtyards but origin looked like a neat place to explore. Actually a bit disappointed by the exploration in general. Someone else said it’s a shame we only get to see the cities as dungeons, because they all have really nice visual design in cutscenes, but we only get to explore them as they’re crumbling apart in gameplay, if we explore them at all.
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Jul 9, 2023 00:31
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I feel like square intentionally made the ending ambiguous. More things point toward Clive being dead, but enough points to him being alive and they don’t make anything explicit that debate was inevitable. Sometimes that’s a useful tool to convey meaning, but I can’t really see how the ambiguity helps the themes in this case. Which makes it seems like they were spurring debate for the sake of debate, which is pretty unsatisfying.
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Jul 9, 2023 04:37
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If metia follows any real world rules, in order for it to always have a position near the moon it needs to be an object in orbit. Some people theorized that it’s a device used by Ultima that allows the use of aether as magic, but who knows how far the writers went with that. Could easily just be a symbol and having it near the moon looks cool.
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Jul 9, 2023 05:47
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Failboattootoot posted:There has to be a range on that dominant sense or else the story makes virtually zero sense. Clive would have known about 10 minutes into the game that Joshua was still alive otherwise. Maybe 10 hours if he needed to accept the truth first, but still. Joshua is like 20 meters away when he watches Clive exit the Phoenix Gate… so not distance. Also not related to being familiar with the dominant because Hugo learns Benedikta is dead by receiving her head. I think they just needed a reason for the characters to not be freaking out about their possibly dead friend in that one scene and other implications weren’t really considered.
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Jul 9, 2023 10:27
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I don’t think the game does anything to indicate that “internal aether” exists. It’s just something from the planet that you channel, and channeling eventually burns you out. Even Ultima’s plan is to create a vessel that can withstand channeling the full mined aether of all the crystals, not a vessel that is itself loaded with aether.
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Jul 10, 2023 00:15
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Ah. Yeah weird that you can't use magic at all in those areas then.
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Jul 10, 2023 00:30
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SyntheticPolygon posted:I assumed he was alive because surely being incinerated by Phoenix flames just heals you? Clive while trying to take down Ultima “Hey Joshua I know you’re trying to help, but could you loving stop?”
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Jul 10, 2023 06:29
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I mean that was sure what I was thinking of when the giant Lilly bloomed over the ruins of a city while dragon looking eikons flew circles around it.
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Jul 11, 2023 04:25
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IDK if you can say it hasn’t aged well so much as it was always kind of absurd. It’s not like oil wasn’t widely known to be awful for the environment in the mid 90s.Jetrauben posted:There's some folks who think that whole sequence was at least somewhat contributed to by Taro apparently? Due to the use of flashback and such? I immediately tried to see if he had any credits in the game but found nothing. I think it’s just homage. He’s friends with a lot of the devs on this game though, so friendly tribute or uncredited ideas given in conversation are both possible. Bugblatter fucked around with this message at 05:39 on Jul 11, 2023 |
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Jul 11, 2023 05:37
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Ambiguity and downer endings can be great, I think most of my favorite narratives have both. But they're not so great if there isn't a well-communicated thematic purpose and I haven't seen any great arguments that there is one here.
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Jul 11, 2023 08:07
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fridge corn posted:Its cool to think of art as something that exists in the real world and is interdependent with other things rather than just a self contained story but maybe I just haven't watched enough MCU films idk What is this flippant rear end poo poo even a response to?
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Jul 11, 2023 08:54
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Side-lined is prob a more accurate term than fridged. That has a very specific meaning that isn't at all accurate. But yeah, she isn't really done justice by the plot.
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Jul 12, 2023 07:47
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runaway dog posted:I'm picturing Barnabus showing up in the finale with his creepy high pitched voice "is mythos tired?!" That reminds me, Barnabus’s actor really needed to make a final decision about how his character pronounced “mythos” at some point. Different characters from different lands can have different accents, but that one dude flip flopping…
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Jul 12, 2023 23:59
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It seems like if a "world without magic spell" was successful, then Leviathan couldn't possibly be around? Magic being the method of channeling aether, and priming requiring the channeling of aether. Unless Eikon's can exist without a dominant somehow.
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Jul 13, 2023 00:35
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bewilderment posted:The existence of the Stage Replay menu makes it very easy for any given DLC to just throw you into a zone and say "it would've happened here in the story". The deal with weapons/accessories in NG+ is you make the new higher level ones by combining two of the same one. Some items can only be acquired once per-playthrough, so if you missed something in your first run, it’s impossible to forge the higher level one in NG+. Generally it doesn’t matter much unless you want to collect all items for your own reasons. FF mode isn’t scaled up that much harder so you’re fine being a bit under equipped and the only items that affect trophies are gotterdamerung and the music tracks, which aren’t affected by this quirk.
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Jul 13, 2023 02:04
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Hmm, Clive and Jill, after years of being back together, still were too timid to kiss by the midgame. Even in the late game when they're on the beach and they had to remove their soaked clothes, they were doing the respectful looking in the opposite direction thing. They don't actually state love until Clive is heading out on a suicide mission. The game is pretty hesitant to do any overt indications of sexual activity between them despite being direct about it with several other characters. I think this is more due to Jill's part being underwritten than authorial intent, but nevertheless, Clive dying a virgin is a valid read of the ending.
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Jul 14, 2023 00:37
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In all seriousness, yeah there’s a lot to imply they finally hooked up on the beach and the Eikon sucking is a kinda goofy sex scene metaphor. They were doing the awkward chaste victorian flirting before that though.
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Jul 14, 2023 00:54
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Finally hooking up at the age of 33 probably does make him more of a chad that all the other mainline FF protagonists though.
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Jul 14, 2023 01:11
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| # ¿ May 19, 2024 20:56 |
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Mid was a war orphan that Cid’s group found and raised. And yeah, I can’t see the similarity.
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Jul 14, 2023 02:09
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