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Flopsy posted:Velma is one of those breathtaking things where every single moment is just soaked through with raw unfiltered contempt. Both for the audience and the source material. And it's even weirder with all the producers and writers going around talking about how much they love the show and its characters. Mindy was especially atrocious about it because she has no loving clue who or what the character she's portraying is but claims Velma is her favorite. Imagine if you will you got called to play your favorite comfort character from your childhood and your way of showing it is by portraying them as the most hateful and most hated creature you can imagine. That's Mindy's deal and I still don't get what the end game was. Why even bother? Why put the energy in? There's a mystery for ya. Mindy's whole deal is being a pickme Indian-American chud who plays herself or mouthpieces of herself. I think she musta been quite surprised that she didn't get the same reception when she used an existing character for that. Pulsarcat posted:I have to say, I like how they handled Queen Bee. I found it extra funny just to pile on poor Loona's misfortune. She meets a big nice hot guy and gets a crush... oh no, he's taken and in a happy relationship Oh no, his girlfriend is hot and charismatic and also literal royalty Oh no, she's also really nice and likeable and even is specifically nice to me AND my fuckup drunk dad Macaluso posted:I said it in the other thread but he's the kind of voice actor where he rarely does more than just his one voice, but he puts little changes and inflections and different ways of saying things so the characters all still seem distinct. Dagget and Zim and Moxxie all talk very specific ways despite having the same voice Moxxie strikes me as being basically halfway between Zim and Dagget, and I think they're especially having fun with him being the relative voice of reason. Also agreed that he definitely works best when he has someone who's willing to hear him out sometimes but also tell him to stop overthinking it. Blitzo is actually pretty good at thinking on his feet in a pinch. Also apparently Horvitz is Alpha 5 as well.
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Jul 21, 2023 08:17
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I'm not sure whether I'd love to see Christmas Time In Hell, that Santa is actually Satan or IMP hired to assassinate Santa Maybe a mix Also The Santa Clause invoking on Blitzo
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Aug 2, 2023 05:46
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While I get that the show's introduced a lot of characters and dynamics that could rather use a following up on since they seem rather significant for being so underdeveloped, I get the feeling some people just parrot that criticism and don't understand what a plot point or character trait actually is.Bussamove posted:Viv. She comes from Tumblr, unfortunately this is as normal as breathing.
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Aug 3, 2023 05:24
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Reminded of discussion in another thread about how GRRM may have written himself into a corner trying to surprise the audience that guessed where his foreshadowing was going to go, and how Westworld hosed itself over because the writers cared more about showing off how smart they are than writing a good or coherent story. A certain kind of fandom brain sees stories as puzzles to be solved or documentaries of otherworldly events, and struggles when understanding anything that requires them to think of it as a piece of fictional artifice. I'm not sure whether the previously discussed people who freak out when fiction isn't properly morally instructive or provides their exact desired flavour of comfort and catharsis on command is the opposite end of the spectrum or what, though maybe just a different kind of idiocy manifest of a similar dysfunctional mindset. Dawgstar posted:Yeah, you take the super cool lone wolf dude and make fun of him. It's like being upset the guy from Community's paintball episode played by Josh Holloway back when he was the Norman Reedus went out of the competition in a goofy way. Funny thing with Striker and Crimson is that their silliness doesn't actually make them less dangerous- in fact a big part of their menace is because they're off-balance and unpredictable and lack the redeeming features the wacky violent protagonists have. Crimson is used to being unquestioned and doubles down on bad decisions violently where even Blitzo would change tack or cut his losses, and Striker is a violent opportunist who gets a mariachi band singing along because he's kind of able to live up to the hype (besides in the trousers department, probably) but his ego also means he falls victim to classic villain pitfalls of not just shooting his target. Also I get the feeling Stolas has a major rescue kink with Blitzo now.
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Aug 4, 2023 07:12
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Funny thing is that Striker just has the same deal as IMP, just introduced in reverse; he's genuinely badass and dangerous and also a huge doof left to his own devices, just like Moxxie, Millie and Blitzo. A lot of it really just is that people can't accept the show is a goofy violent cartoon, and proudly so. Dapper_Swindler posted:also i like crimson, he has alot of desperate sociopathic menance. I feel like he is relativly "small" fish in greed's ocean and the years havent been kind to his little empire, so he snatches at whatever oppertunity he can. so he buys chaz's bullshit and that was that. then chaz had a day where the best part of it was when he died. There's even a lot of themes that Crimson's whole ruthless, domineering approach has gotten him nothing but failure. He tried to mold Moxxie into his personal killing machine from childhood in downright horrific ways, and only succeeded in leaving Moxxie both completely alienated from him and desperate for anyone who shows him affection and respect- which eventually paid off with a wife that loves him and will murder the gently caress out of anyone who threatens him, and a boss who actually values him and will back him up when necessary. Blitzo is a better boss and a better father in about every aspect, and that really says something about how low the bar is. Actually I think there's a common theme that even in Hell, being a complete bastard ultimately doesn't pay. Not the least probably because it's literally Hell- you got bastards anywhere you look, they're not special. Of course that mostly serves to make the protagonists more sympathetic despite doing a lot of pretty evil poo poo and having little to no regard for relatively innocent lives mortal or demonic, but it's not just them. The Sins themselves so far actually seem to be on the ball, and wise enough to make a point of embodying and promoting exactly one sin at a time, since they have to make it appealing for temptation and all.
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Aug 4, 2023 18:13
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Something about anti-clown discrimination assuming they have to all be the Joker. Or even worse, anti-jester. Blitzo might have more of a career in entertainment if he hadn't apparently pissed off several of Hell's prominent entertainers.
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Aug 11, 2023 06:36
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Ralsei is pretty much more or less erzatz Charlie.
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Aug 20, 2023 09:10
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Pyrotoad posted:I remember seeing some of that. The main 'sources' are anonymous tumblr posts pinkie-promising that they're legit, as far as I can tell. Kind of the thing is that the native audience of this show are the biggest drama llamas in the world.
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Aug 23, 2023 07:37
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Pretty sure Ozzie loathes having to deal with Stolas not because of personal emnity or even because demon nobility are almost certainly insufferable to the Sins but just because Stolas is just a big neeeeeerd. Ironically the bird nerd is exactly what he needed to navigate that business transaction.
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Sep 10, 2023 15:31
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Interesting with the implications that advanced prosthetics, robotics and bionic technology where Hell is clearly ahead of the mortal world seems to be Asmodeus' specialty. ...makes sense.
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Sep 11, 2023 09:18
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Also, really, Verosika is a succubus from a society where having in a loving relationship is seen as a sign of weakness and betraying your values, that she went to the point of being in a presumably monogamous relationshop with Blitzo, where everyone who hears about it is shocked he managed to land her, and he managed to gently caress it up was probably a hell of a betrayal for her.
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Sep 14, 2023 08:57
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Dapper_Swindler posted:honestly. my guess is verosika found him genuinly funny or something and they were happy but then blitz was blitz and wreacked that poo poo. Blitz is an interesting character since, as I've put it, he's got very prominent positive AND negative traits, in the Byronic Hero tradition. He's passionate, sentimental, charismatic and genuine, but he's also mercurial and prone to mood-swings, quite possibly neurodivergent by his own admission if his hesitation to use the r-word is any indication, and has terrible impulse control- and wildly swinging self-esteem. Been said that he seems to crave love and acceptance but also doesn't feel deserving of it, and is afraid to show affection, hence he self-sabotages his relationships- he's not wrong that his relationship with Stolas isn't on equal footing, but he's also pretty clearly toying with Stolas in turn and not just to take advantage or petty revenge. (Which unfortunately can make him pretty relatable, as that's basically toxic masculinity 101. A recurring theme in this show.) It's very easy to imagine how he might have screwed up his relationship with Verosika, especially with the hints we've gotten- that he might well have gotten insecure and resentful over her being more successful and wealthy than he is, and came to take her for granted and took advantage of her. (Hence the mentions of being terrible in bed and taking advantage of her money- running off with her credit cards for horse riding lessons and all. Feels like one of those things where Vero might well have been interested herself if he'd just asked) Thing is about turning to drug habits in particular is that it feels like something that results not just from Blitz being a toxic influence but from having to put up with an initial good relationship that deteriorated badly until they cut him off. Also makes the last episode a clear turning point where Blitz is coming clean and clearing the air with Fizz; both stating that the disaster was a genuine accident, and that he still admits fault and feels guilty over it, being entirely sincere for once in a way that actually comes off as believable. Funny thing is it seems like he also learns a thing or two from his experiences with Fizz, and maybe having the crazed, near-feral open supremacist be the one who agrees with him seems to have him genuinely self-examining a bit. Flopsy posted:I wonder if they're setting us up with a couple reasonable Sins who rule wisely and don't have any overarching ambitions to contrast them with much shittier ones down the line. I get the feeling Mammon is going to be an absolute rear end in a top hat just by all the shady set up around him. I.E. i strongly suspect he isolated Fizz to make him easier to control as an asset. And I don't remember what interview I heard it in but Mammon absolutely has complete control of Fizz's finances. In other words Fizzarolli lives a luxurious lifestyle only because of Ozzie not because he has any real financial means of his own. It's a genuinely sad power dynamic that as a celebrity Fizzarolli should be more of an equal to Asmodeus but by comparison he's literally a pauper because he never sees a cent of it. Oh, Fizz's backstory is definitely a mix of Robocop but for entertainment and celebrities who are drat near property of their studio/producer and live off perks entirely on their whims. The extortionate ransom contract Crimson was trying to pull that would render Ozzie his puppet is definitely Mammon's bread and butter.
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Sep 18, 2023 10:03
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Oh, Mammon's definitely going to be a monster, we've seen the Sins so far be surprisingly sympathetic characters, but think is Gluttony and Lust are considered downright quaint as 'sins' go these days by all but the most puritan and openly bigoted, given the modern context around food and sex. Irresponsible drinking and being a horny pervert is one thing, while greed is very blatantly destroying the world.
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Sep 19, 2023 05:38
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I Am Fowl posted:Wrath seems like a pretty alright ring from what little we've seen. I figure it's mostly rural because regular pointlessly insanely brutal heavy metal album cover style wars regularly destroy most civilization there.
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Sep 20, 2023 09:43
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Flopsy posted:Also fire twisters and volcanos are part of the natural landscape. Volcanic soil IS super productive. But that probably doesn't help either.
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Sep 21, 2023 13:57
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Flopsy posted:I actually welcome HB criticism if they are actually making a coherent point. I like examining things and poo poo nothing is perfect, it's good to think about this stuff. But what pisses me off is having a snit because they're too loving stupid to follow point A to point B or they have some weird sadist take on it. I think the entire point of the show is repairing relationships and actually getting excited about poo poo getting worse when it's already pretty bad is so....I don't even know how to describe it. Like relishing in narrative misery that hasn't even been hinted at yet is so offputting to me. Especially because their "logic" for Fizz having cheated is that he wipes the corner of his mouth when he meet back up with Ozzie. Like holy poo poo that's what makes you think it happened? Not that he got beat up, ran up several flights of stairs and is probably exhausted? The reach is just breathtaking. Once people get into edgelord drama addict brain there's often no way back. It's pretty much the flipside of and reason for the people who get sad and angry at any actual conflict or negative emotion.
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Sep 22, 2023 06:29
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Flopsy posted:This might be a controversial take but the show is at its best when it leans into the wholesome elements. Like Exe's and Ooh's had a literal wedding massacre but it was driven by Millie coming to save her husband. Every episode that puts something sweet in it has been much stronger for it in my opinion just because it balances all the other chaos out. Does every episode need to be like that? Of course not but I have noticed something of a pattern there. Get yourself a spouse who'll Mortal Kombat her way through a legion of gangsters to save your rear end from your horrible ex and abusive dad. Dapper_Swindler posted:i think alot of issues lily has is because she only consumes kids media and theirfore has the black and white morality of kids media(not all but yall know what i mean) its fine to watch kids/family stuff, alot of its very good, but its also very good to vary up your taste. i think their is also a subgroup of critics and media types who have the same issue. Yep, basically a lot of people seem to have never watched a show for grown-ups before and have no idea how to handle it. Like some flipside of boomer brained who see animation and assume =for kids.
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Sep 23, 2023 02:38
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Flopsy posted:Fandom spaces in general are like the no man's land of sanity. And to give Lily some background for her abrasiveness I know she's endured a lot of trauma but her coping mechanisms are truly for poo poo. It's more the kind of behaviour you see from people who never realised the world doesn't work the same as high school.
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Sep 23, 2023 08:18
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YA stuff is apparently a tire fire from every angle these days, it's all the worst fans in the world becoming the worst creators in the world and all the promoters are trying to knife their competition through concern trolling. Figures what happens when the people most invested in it are if anything the most obsessed with looking 'grown-up', but still think actual 'grown-up' literature is dry and boring while everything else is embarrassingly juvenile. I suppose it gets tricky because the actual problem is a lot of adult media feels alien and hard to relate to when it shows a world where everyone owns houses and lives on their own and their biggest problems are being bored at their office jobs.
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Sep 24, 2023 07:09
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Maybe there's something to how the attitude with Harry Potter being 'Well at least the kids are reading books!' wasn't the healthiest response after all.
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Sep 25, 2023 03:28
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Of course Hell would be full of and run by theatre kids.
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Oct 1, 2023 12:04
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Madurai posted:Larger balance of power issue: Asmodeus interfered with Mammon's poo poo right in his own territory. Yeah, anything might be overshadowed by that, civil war in Hell level poo poo going on from the look of it, plus it's kinda clearly just an imp going from one Sin's domain to another. On another note, it's funny how well Australians work as lovely capitalist villains with zero redeeming qualities. I think it helps that the accent and role contains zero of the signifiers that people are trained to find remotely respectable or sympathetic.
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Oct 30, 2023 17:31
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Funny that it's mentioned Mammon doesn't even do a proper clown act any more, and the sisters hardly do either; they're basically acrobats, good ones even, who are openly auditioning for the sex symbol role that Fizz has been turned into. Wonder if there's some commentary there. Both contrast Fizz who is a genuinely passionate and skilled performer and an actual clown who mixes comedy and satire with physical performance and putting a lot of effort, precision and skill into what looks like careless blundering.
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Nov 1, 2023 08:24
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I said in the other thread but there's definitely a trend in the more dramatic corners of fandom for hysterical overanalysis and catastrophising about plots and themes while missing the blatantly obvious. And a lot of them assuming any time now there's going to be a twist of Maximum Drama for drama's sake. I think they get this from cutting their teeth on fanfiction and webcomics, which are very prone to sudden jarring tonal lurches and extreme drama mostly because the author is bored, out of ideas and/or got this idea for a cool shocking twist no one sees coming, regardless of what it does to the actual story. Really, kinda the point of both HB and Hazbin from what I can tell is they start with the characters, if not at their absolute lowest, definitely not in good places- usually in that they're in the process of picking themselves up from rock bottom. Stolas is in a miserable openly hateful marriage that has traumatised his beloved daughter and has caught feelings from a sex-for-services arrangement, with Blitz who has an absolute wreck of a personal life behind him and is trying to get a quite dodgy business as hired assassins off the ground with his adopted daughter who barely tolerates him or anything else, and employing Millie and Moxxie whose marriage, while happy, is clearly still in its early stages and still the first healthy relationship they've probably had in their lives.
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Nov 3, 2023 12:45
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Glad I didn't watch the pilot, the dynamic in show is a lot more interesting with Moxxie caught between genuinely respecting Blitzo probably more than he seemingly should (of course, that makes a lot more sense with his backstory) and being the relative voice of reason/conscience.
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Nov 3, 2023 13:59
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Also that, y'know, the show doesn't tend to be too subtle about those kind of things.
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Nov 5, 2023 10:42
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Gets more interesting with the vibe that Stolas genuinely has no idea what a healthy relationship looks like and Blitz isn't much better. That said, can kinda see how they had to drop a probably intended plotline to fit in that dynamic, and leaves Stella a bit more one-dimensional from the somewhat justifiably angry wife she'd be otherwise.
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Nov 7, 2023 07:16
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Still kind of a gap that we haven't seen Stella and Octavia's relationship at all. Like there's def the vibe Stolas does the bulk of the actual parenting but it's not clear whether Stella is neglectful, distant, outright abusive, or even steps up sometimes.
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Nov 7, 2023 15:02
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I do get the vibe there's probably room for a scene where Stolas realises that, even if it's not something he was ever capable of for various reasons, and regardless of her many faults, he has been a lovely husband to Stella, and everyone involved would have been immensely happier if they had divorced a long time ago.Dapper_Swindler posted:I dont think she is fully abusive to her, I think she is mostly just uncaring or distant outside the "keep your chin up for the party darling" type poo poo. Yeah, I get the vibe similar to Paimon where while not actively abusing she's very bare minimum, let the servants do the work, or Stolas considering it's his job to tutor her as a precautionary heir. That said, it's pretty clear Octavia is downright traumatised by their constant arguing and fighting.
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Nov 8, 2023 08:24
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Dapper_Swindler posted:you mean Stella. Yeah, basically. Actually, comes to mind that frankly, if Stella sought sexual satisfaction outside her marriage it's unlikely Stolas would be bothered much himself (potential bastards aside, though that's another story) but then it kinda goes with the theme Stella also isn't much to try to deal with problems herself when she can take them out on and/or have someone else deal with them for her. As said, Stella is pretty much everything wrong with the Goetia wrapped up in one character, complete with her horrible attitudes never being discouraged in the least. Dapper_Swindler posted:I read somewhere that they are taking a break until like febuary or march for the next episode(long break and holidays plus Hazbin launching january) and wanted to wrap the year up with mid season finale. but normally, when its finished. Hazbin Hotel is literally actually just a pilot thus far, I think is the deal, and similar to Helluva, what's been shown thus far might be maybe sorta kinda canon but it's used as a rough draft of what the show proper will look like.
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Nov 9, 2023 13:52
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Striker strikes me (heh) as someone definitely going to die after we finally learn about his backstory. Which I doubt will be particularly sympathetic, as he definitely is the kind of 'rebel' whose only real problem with the status quo is that he's not in charge of it, but we know how these dramatic formulas go. That said, outside bet that he ends up revived as a cyborg. There's precedent! Actually kinda funny that we have a cyborg who is superpowered by imp standards but is one of the few characters who demonstrably has no skill nor interest in violence, even if he's as inured to it as most denizens of Hell. Put that way, actually... makes me wonder. A lot of the antagonists of the series thus far seem to represent the worst things about Hell. (and could be argued Heaven and Earth a bit too) Stella as mentioned is everything wrong with the Goetia wrapped up in feathers, and Crimson is effectively a jumped-up thug who sees any virtue or nuance as weakness to be punished or exploited, and constantly underestimates people with redeeming qualities. Striker presents himself as the pinnacle of what an Imp can hope to be, and on top of all that a rebel, but all that ultimately amounts to is an egotistical shithead who needs violence to validate himself. Maybe it all comes back to the whole premise- Blitzo is literally a professional assassin, and surprisingly good at it despite his propensity for shenanigans, but for him, Moxxie and Millie, violence is a means to an end, even if they do enjoy it. It's a job to support their lives and what they really want to do with them, and to maintain and support their relationships. Notably, Blitzo specifically keeps Loona out of the violence whenever possible, despite that she's incredibly good at it and suited for it, because he wants her to have a semblance of normality, contrasting Crimson destroying his family trying to make Moxxie into his personal weapon. (And Moxxie started working for Blitz in the first place after learning he was a better father) PhazonLink posted:drat i cant believe hell uses the inferior but logical date format of day-month-year Mammon IS Australian, it's normal here!
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Nov 14, 2023 09:26
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The scandal between Ozzie and Fizz is specifically because it's damaging his brand and makes him look weak in lacking resolve, compared to Bee whose romantic choices don't really have much to do either way with Gluttony. I get a strong vibe that in Hell, reputation is everything, and even for nobility, they constantly have to maintain that reputation or be seen as juicy targets. Charlie specifically gets no respect from most anyone in Hell because she actively goes against everything the heir to Lucifer is supposed to be (besides the poetic irony of rebelling against her father) and given iirc her backstory has a broken off engagement with the prince of Envy, it's quite possible her relationship with a sinner (and a same-sex relationship at that) is another one of the reasons she gets no respect. Stella also is extra enraged (and Asmodeus extra impressed) at Stolas having a pretty indiscreet relationship with an imp, rather than a more 'acceptable' kind of affair. It isn't exactly made clear currently what kind of punishments the Sins themselves can fear, though there's the impression that they have particular duties and positions to uphold, and in turn potential punishments, even being replaced, if they fail to live up to those standards. (Otherwise I get the feeling the Sins are both high enough and not exactly the same as the Goetia noble heirarchy, and thus typical rules don't necessarily apply to them.) Mammon seemed pretty sure Ozzie is likely to suffer repercussions from even higher up... so, probably Lucifer himself. Also interesting theory that Satan might be the original ruler of Hell who was upstaged by Lucifer, I did have some theories that Lucifer is explicitly a foreign conqueror and the Sins are basically his colonial viceroys (especially if they're fallen angels as well) that have gone native to various degrees, or shaped Hell's culture themselves over the millennia. Though possibly the Von Eldritch have been around even longer. Also, mostly unrelated theory that Satan is going to be orky as gently caress. Ghost Leviathan fucked around with this message at 06:18 on Nov 16, 2023 |
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Nov 16, 2023 06:12
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Didn't realise Ozzie is styled on a magician but now I see it. By elimination I think we'll probably see one themed on an acrobat (though heh, now the weird visual similarity between Mammon and Robin from Teen Titans makes sense) and maybe a freak show.
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Nov 17, 2023 07:02
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I still find it funny that they have Horvitz voicing the most moral, sensible and polite member of the cast. Not that he's always played total jerks (Norbert is actually the nice one in Angry Beavers if you pay attention) but Moxxie is probably one of the first prominent characters he's played who'd actually be pleasant to be around most of the time. Also I made a joking comparison of Stolas and Octavia to Dr Orpheus and Triana, and now I'm down the mental rabbit hole realising Blitzo reminds me of Rusty, and Rusty having a tumultuous relationship with Orpheus would make a weird amount of sense as well as being hilarious. Also wanna see that fanart theme. Would Loona be Brock?
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Nov 25, 2023 08:16
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Also I got that the wrong way around somehow and said the exact opposite of what I wanted to say, Dagget is actually the nice one of the beavers.
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Nov 25, 2023 15:06
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Kaiser Mazoku posted:Yeah Dagget was the nice and responsible one albeit naive and high-strung while his brother was a smug lazy jerk. Can see why their parents prefer Dag. Also kinda lol given Norbert is pretty much Salem with less of a criminal record, what with having the same voice and all. (He also played Salem in the (first) Sabrina cartoon, and apparently was also a writer on both. Explains a lot.) That show basically had those two's voice acting as the rock solid foundation. I hope they get him for Helluva Boss somehow, if only as a cameo.
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Nov 26, 2023 04:02
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It's kinda scary considering Blitz pretty much IS an adoptive father figure for, at the very least, Loona and Moxxie, and he's the best choice they've currently got.Larryb posted:Nick Bakay apparently hasn’t done anything major since 2019 but yeah, that’d be cool. I'd be kinda surprised if the Sins don't show up on both, especially given Hazbin seems to have a lot more focus on the rulers of Hell and external politics compared to Helluva's more personal focus.
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Nov 27, 2023 06:09
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Yeah, the full on actual radio voice would maybe work for an occasional character or even a major villain, but for a regular it'd get old and jarring fast.
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Dec 16, 2023 11:08
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Thanks to coming out of tumblr Viv has attracted a hatedom of the biggest drama addicts on the planet. Best to treat everything from them as the equivalent of the kid swearing his uncle works at Nintendo.
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Dec 30, 2023 00:52
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Flopsy posted:Hazbin/Helluva is a bit of a rough fandom to be in sometimes because I'm just looking for other people to do character examination and theorize with and there's just venom every loving where. It does get a little funny sometimes ngl. It can depend wildly on the particular spaces you're in, def one of those cases where an insidious hatedom makes talking about it anywhere a minefield where a mention will set off some psychotic rant about something they've clearly decided to hate against all reason.
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Jan 12, 2024 08:11
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