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She's a hater frog-elf who'd never admit she was wrong before she'd do that. It took her almost 900 years to finally decide that Flamme's magic academy system might not be a bad idea after all. And even then she's still treating magic like a wartime necessity among her students.
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Mar 23, 2024 05:53
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Sachant posted:If Serie misses all of her students so much why doesn't she just go to Ende with Frieren? Do you remember in Return of the King when Frodo puts the ring on and the eye of Sauron immediately turns to Mount Doom and all the Nazgul immediately fly as fast as they can to that location? That's why they didn't fly the gigantic, impossible to miss birds to Mordor.
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Mar 23, 2024 06:01
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Why didn't Frodo just use magic make an astral projection of himself to carry the Ring to Mordor while he stayed at home drinking tea and smoking pipeweed? Is he stupid?
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Mar 23, 2024 06:07
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The eagles and Serie have the same motivation: "Nuh-uh, you can't make me."
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Mar 23, 2024 07:44
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HamburgerTownUSA posted:Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't this a manga spoiler as it hasn't been brought up in the show yet? Honestly, I'm not even sure if I am just imagining that detail. It shouldn't be vital either way.
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Mar 23, 2024 08:29
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Good finale, good anime.
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Mar 23, 2024 08:52
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Arc Hammer posted:Why didn't Frodo just use magic make an astral projection of himself to carry the Ring to Mordor while he stayed at home drinking tea and smoking pipeweed? Is he stupid? The one part of the books I was always sad they never touched in the movies (but is wholly understandable) was the invasion of the Shire and all the dumb Sarumon + Grima shenanigans surrounding that.
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Mar 23, 2024 13:20
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The mustache guy who tried to fight Frieren has invented the next Zoltraak, right? That spell went straight through a shield. In 10 years everyone will need to know that, and in 15 they'll also have a countermeasure.
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Mar 23, 2024 15:25
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This could be a weird take but I feel like Serie was never being spiteful. She created the CMA from whole cloth, and in doing so, co-opted what it means to be powerful for her own ends, essentially re-writing the concept of success in a way that proliferated across the land. She's almost objectively right that Frieren is not a first class mage. But it's because the term is ultimately subjective. Powerful people create norms all the time. In many ways we view someone's power in the context of how they can re-write rules. I felt like the takeaway was that societies create norms, and you can fail to achieve those norms, but that has no bearing on who you actually are, and that is ultimately a choice that you make, not some crazy elf. We create our own story and journey. That, to me, felt like the whole point of Frieren saying that Serie's intuition is always right. It always is, because she created the concept that is being judged. She really is always right. Frieren really is a bad first class mage. It also, ultimately, doesn't matter. The whole concept of having to earn a merit badge to travel somewhere is stupid in the first place. Frieren just refuses to acquiesce, which drives Serie insane because she created the concept of power in her own image and preference. Like all social constructions, it carries weight only insofar as it is believed. Anyways. This show loving slaps, and it is probably my favorite anime ever. I could point to so many reasons why, but it's pointless. S+ tier. Brutal Garcon posted:The mustache guy who tried to fight Frieren has invented the next Zoltraak, right? That spell went straight through a shield. In 10 years everyone will need to know that, and in 15 they'll also have a countermeasure. I think the inference here is just that he's absurdly powerful. It doesn't bypass the shield, just obliterates it with what looks like raw power. The other reason I think this is true is because it dovetails perfectly with the moral framework about magic power vs. more subtle differentiations of what it means to have influence and succeed that have permeated the show and particularly the 1st class mage arc since the beginning. This is also why Denken is such an important character in the grand lesson of what the show is trying to achieve. He represents another type of absolute power, political power, and like other forms of power, the story goes to great lengths to portray it as ultimately pointless (I thought this was a very subtle nod and enjoyed how they only play at the implications, but they give away the game in the last episode where he basically just says it). Even if it were Zoltrakk V2.0, which is possible (I haven't read the manga) is that Lernen doesn't make the same mistake as Qual and flaunt his power so openly as to align the whole of society against his powers, which feels like the point of the Qual stuff; sure Qual was powerful, but he also became a natural disaster that necessitated great cooperation. This again dovetails with Denken's explanation of how political power should be used as seldomly as possible lest you become too much of a liability in the eyes of the political structure, which is just another clever way of reinforcing the exact same point through another application of power. The way they bring it all home in the end with Himmel's monologue about how people remember the little things brings the entire framework of what the show is trying to achieve full circle. What an incredible final episode. PS I have to say, Fern's choice of final spell is also fantastic. Keeping clean as an ability seems almost pointless until you realize that it accumulates across the entirety of the journey. It makes the journey better, not the destination, which again reinforces what the show is trying to say perfectly. In Frieren the most evil (and/or misguided) people covet the destination above all and the purest hearts covet the journey. And in turn, the narrative often assigns the greatest moral value to situations in which characters gain insight that allows them to enjoy and understand the power of the journey. Taima fucked around with this message at 16:06 on Mar 23, 2024 |
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Mar 23, 2024 15:30
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Sachant posted:If Serie misses all of her students so much why doesn't she just go to Ende with Frieren? I think the difference is that Serie misses her students (even if she's too proud to show it in front of the actual student) , but she doesn't regret taking them and seeing them all eventually pass. She always knew that her students will die, from all the way back with Flamme, but she still takes them. Frieren has regrets that she didn't realize sooner and still has some things to say to Himmel.
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Mar 23, 2024 16:15
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Putting up a 1000 year long "no Frierens allowed" sign is still pretty petty and spiteful.
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Mar 23, 2024 16:43
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Brutal Garcon posted:The mustache guy who tried to fight Frieren has invented the next Zoltraak, right? That spell went straight through a shield. In 10 years everyone will need to know that, and in 15 they'll also have a countermeasure. We saw Frieren herself blast through her own shield during the mimic fight. Basic defensive magic is great but enough raw magic will still be able to get past it.
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Mar 23, 2024 16:59
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This was something I asked about back when we first found out about the priveledge, but it bears returning to: If it were you, what practical spell would you ask for from Serie? Presuming you couldn't have the clothes cleaning spell because Serie doesn't wanna give it twice. ＜(´⌯ ̫⌯`)＞ Me, I'd like a spell that lets me clean floors & carpets. No more sweeping, no more vacuuming, no more mopping. Bliss.
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Mar 23, 2024 17:01
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Doodles posted:This was something I asked about back when we first found out about the priveledge, but it bears returning to: I want a spell that makes me able to fall asleep (and wake up) at will. gently caress insomnia.
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Mar 23, 2024 17:12
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Doodles posted:This was something I asked about back when we first found out about the priveledge, but it bears returning to: Yeah similar, a spell that dusts everything.
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Mar 23, 2024 17:15
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I want a spell that makes me experience a full 8 hour sleep in like 15 minutes. As someone with poor time management, I'd like to be able to cut that hassle out Land's clone spell is good too but I presume for this hypothetical we're trying to come up with practical non-combat spells we haven't seen before... TwoPair fucked around with this message at 17:25 on Mar 23, 2024 |
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Mar 23, 2024 17:23
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As somebody who's weight fluctuates quite a bit (and keeps accidentally throwing things into the wash on hot) gimme a spell that lets me resize any article of clothing up or down a size. Gained/lost 20lb? Just zap the wardrobe into fitting instead of having to pack it up and break out the boxes of other clothes.Gully Foyle posted:I want a spell that makes me able to fall asleep (and wake up) at will. gently caress insomnia. drat that's a powerful one.
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Mar 23, 2024 17:42
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TwoPair posted:Land's clone spell is good too but I presume for this hypothetical we're trying to come up with practical non-combat spells we haven't seen before...  I want Land's clone spell. That rear end in a top hat won loving big with that one.
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Mar 23, 2024 17:46
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Taima posted:This could be a weird take but I feel like Serie was never being spiteful. She created the CMA from whole cloth, and in doing so, co-opted what it means to be powerful for her own ends, essentially re-writing the concept of success in a way that proliferated across the land. i think what throws people off is how Frieren characterizes why they don't get along. those descriptions are accurate, but in the elf social time domain, not ours. people who think for decades or a millennium in between interactions pack a bit more into a blow off, without it not being also that
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Mar 23, 2024 17:48
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Taking the long view every time can blind people to the present. Serie's instincts are always correct but she's still taken aback by Fern's request despite it being pretty obvious to anyone operating on a human timescale or who had spent any appreciable time around Frieren. I got the sense that despite Frieren and Serie knowing each other well they likely haven't spent all that much time around each other, whereas Fern has spent nearly her entire life with Frieren. Serie's got that Hari Seldon psychohistory long view that is mostly correct about epochs and macro-scale societal changes but individuals can still surprise her. Which is ironic because she's been surprised time after time and cherished so many students, only to not admit it publicly because it would go against the perspective on life and magic she shows the world.
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Mar 23, 2024 18:07
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Skippy McPants posted:Land was just being smart. If you can make perfect copies of yourself, you'd be stupid to ever put the "real" you anywhere near to anything even potentially dangerous. come to think of it, we never do see a (demonic) clone of him show up during the second test, do we? that's a nice touch if im not just forgetting it
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Mar 23, 2024 18:59
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It is amusing going back and the way the first OP makes Serie look like the main villain of the series with the throne, heavy shadows, and her smug smile.
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Mar 23, 2024 19:27
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this allusion meant posted:yeah some of the things people have said about Serie itt just don't make sense to me. clearly she has a different set of values and is both earnest about and dedicated to them. so the era of humanity's magic has dawned, within the past millennium. she foresaw it, more clearly than Frieren did at the time (she tells her after Flamme's passing that the ones most likely to kill her in the future are the Demon King, or a human mage). well, who knows what the millennia after that will bring, but strength will always serve Serie, as it has for the millennia prior. she can adapt to the times by taking leadership of the human magic organizations, but why change your whole outlook over a recent development that is inherently unstable in its long-run evolution? Serie can have good foresight and intuition AND still be kind of a giant petulant baby when things don't go her way my opinion is that the 'point' of the serie/frieren interaction is that, despite the frequent wizard fights, this is not a story that's 'about' wizard fights or power levels. it's about appreciating the people you're with while you're with them, and the little things in life in general. And serie is even worse at recognizing the value of either of these things than frieren used to be Serie's relentless focus on a very shonenesque understanding of magic has made her life a sadder and lonelier one. She misses her old students, but she's only willing to articulate that feeling through the lens of their magical achievement, and how much of a shame it was that they 'never reached her level.' And her focus on power specifically has also blinded her to the value of things that don't fit into that framework of understanding. Serie is definitely very good at being a mage. But in the context of this show, and again perhaps surprisingly given how many wizard fights there are, that doesn't really matter. She has the same problem as frieren, but she's not aware of it and her philosophy actively discourages her from changing her ways. I think frieren rubs serie the wrong way because frieren constitutes a counterpoint to her approach to magic and life that, for a number of reasons, serie can't easily dismiss. That's why she can use the 'lofty ancient mage' persona on everyone else but it quickly falls apart when she's interacting with frieren specifically sharkmafia fucked around with this message at 19:34 on Mar 23, 2024 |
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Mar 23, 2024 19:32
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Qtotonibudinibudet posted:come to think of it, we never do see a (demonic) clone of him show up during the second test, do we? that's a nice touch if im not just forgetting it One does show up very briefly during the scene when Ubel, Land, and Denken find out the copies will just keep popping up even after they're killed. We don't see if that copy-Land also has clones (presumably yes) because shortly after that scene, Frieren and Fern finish off Copy-Frieren and kill the Spiegel, evaporating all the copies immediately.
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Mar 23, 2024 19:36
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A self replicating army of Land clones wouldn't even need to attack anyone. It would probably turn into a dungeon wide Gray Goo scenario.
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Mar 23, 2024 19:40
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Doodles posted:This was something I asked about back when we first found out about the priveledge, but it bears returning to: If possible, I'd like a spell that generates a new, random spell each time it is cast. I'd spend the entire rest of my life generating new spells and testing them.
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Mar 23, 2024 20:31
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Arc Hammer posted:A self replicating army of Land clones wouldn't even need to attack anyone. It would probably turn into a dungeon wide Gray Goo scenario. The Spiegel clones are still limited by the original's mana capacity. What we don't know is how much mana it takes for Land to make a clone of himself. Edit: Also, I would request a spell that lets me communicate in every language and comms system with native fluency. Spoken, written, pictorial, somatic, you name it. AlternateNu fucked around with this message at 20:45 on Mar 23, 2024 |
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Mar 23, 2024 20:42
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AlternateNu posted:The Spiegel clones are still limited by the original's mana capacity. What we don't know is how much mana it takes for Land to make a clone of himself. Oh nice choice nice choice...for a NOOB Id request a spell to keep carbonated beverages fizzy
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Mar 23, 2024 21:09
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A spell to handle acid reflux after drinking too many fizzy carbonated drinks.
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Mar 23, 2024 21:14
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I'd like a spell that removes all mental illness from my broke brain.
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Mar 23, 2024 21:17
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Spell to give people a wedgie through the Internet.
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Mar 23, 2024 21:21
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Spell to make every author write isekai novels
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Mar 23, 2024 21:59
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GateOfD posted:Spell to make every author write isekai novels Even Serie knows this spell is too foul to let free into the world.
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Mar 23, 2024 22:06
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Sydin posted:Even Serie knows this spell is too foul to let free into the world. 
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Mar 23, 2024 22:27
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sharkmafia posted:Serie can have good foresight and intuition AND still be kind of a giant petulant baby when things don't go her way yeah i agree with a lot of this but would say it's clearly an outcome related to being elves, the loss of elf society and subsequent turn towards individual "exile," and the inherent difficulty in adapting to mortal social time. and i wouldn't assume that doing what Frieren does in trying to meet mortals emotionally where they are in time is necessarily or obviously the best way to handle it (you are supposed to feel that it is, because that is what you, the mortal human viewer, who has some social regrets of one form or another, can take from the story, but that doesn't mean that assuming the human way of life is actually best will be the best way of reading the characters). without the possibility of journeying to Heaven (which is ambiguous), she would have to go through cycles of deeper relationships and deeper mourning that would not necessarily stabilize into a naturalized way of being. certainly Kraft has had difficulty coping with eternity without the hope that the Goddess will redeem his efforts. say what you will about Serie's way of life, she's got a project that can go on forever and keep her acquainted with the kinds of people she finds most interesting without imposing burdens beyond what she's used to. i think it makes a lot of sense for her, and that highlights how special Himmel was, that Frieren doesn't even entertain this. he wasn't just a guy who did nice things or saved the world. he changed it
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Mar 23, 2024 22:39
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Spell to make anything any age I want. Age up that wine. Age down that day-old doughnut.
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Mar 23, 2024 23:14
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Das Boo posted:Spell to make anything any age I want. Age up that wine. Age down that day-old doughnut. Even with some limitations something like that would be amazing.
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Mar 23, 2024 23:15
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The flower field spell but for baked goods.
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Mar 23, 2024 23:56
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Serie is actually a pretty good CEO
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Mar 24, 2024 00:01
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AlternateNu posted:The Spiegel clones are still limited by the original's mana capacity. What we don't know is how much mana it takes for Land to make a clone of himself. Given we never actually see Land create a new clone of himself on screen, even in situations where it would be really useful (like combat with Ubel clone, he had to wait for a pre-existing clone to make its way there) I assume it's not something he can just do on the fly and probably requires a bunch of time and mana.
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Mar 24, 2024 00:46
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