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Parallax posted:fortunately they definitely won't make the exact same gamble next year. or this year if rodgers insists on coming back in week 16. uh, right? I said it in another thread, but arguably best thing for the Jets is for Rodgers to cost himself the 2024 season by coming back this year. At least that way everyone can just move on with their lives and Rodgers can't hold the team hostage for another season. Of course I'm sure the cap implications of that would suck.
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Nov 7, 2023 19:38
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Impossibly Perfect Sphere posted:Zach Wilson shouldn't even be in the NFL. But the Jets FO felt compelled to make him their backup under the guise of him "learning" how to play at an NFL level from Rodgers, and in doing so set this season on fire. The only rationale explanation is sunk cost fallacy. He still has the tools needed, definitely enough to be averagish. He's just so freaking bad at playing NFL football. ...and we get to keep watching him try to do it for a while.
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Nov 7, 2023 19:39
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Grittybeard posted:He still has the tools needed, definitely enough to be averagish. He's just so freaking bad at playing NFL football. ...and we get to keep watching him try to do it for a while. History is full of quarterbacks that had the physical tools but just absolutely couldn't process the game at this level, and he is like the crystalized prime example of this kind of player. He has no idea what he's doing and it's been two and a half years.
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Nov 7, 2023 19:40
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Febreeze posted:Carr would have made the Jets better than they are right now, but if they got good Rodgers, they could be feasibly up with the top of the AFC with that defense. That was the gamble, they lost. they're at .500 with Zach Wilson, even a bad Carr year would have them at the top of the AFC right now, 6-2 at worst. I agree that going for Rodgers wasn't "irrational" but it also wasn't a smart bet
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Nov 7, 2023 19:41
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Impossibly Perfect Sphere posted:History is full of quarterbacks that had the physical tools but just absolutely couldn't process the game at this level, and he is like the crystalized prime example of this kind of player. He has no idea what he's doing and it's been two and a half years. It's honestly impressive how many starts he's gotten while being as truly heinous as he's been Like, by year adjusted metrics, he's just beyond putrid (100 is average for all passers that year).  Mac Jones has been thoroughly ruined, and yet compare 'em: 
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Nov 7, 2023 19:46
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Two lovely QBs. The plan was for Zach to be a backup though whereas the Pats are probably rolling with Mac through his rookie deal.
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Nov 7, 2023 19:48
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Diva Cupcake posted:The plan was for Zach to be a backup though yeah they drafted their backup QB at 2 overall
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Nov 7, 2023 19:51
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When last off-season started, pretty much everyone agreed that in 2023 the Jets would have: - a very good, and potentially elite, defense; - an excellent sophomore WR/RB pair (with the caveat of Breece's injury recovery); - a good mix of assets in terms of cap room and draft picks. And what to do at QB was a risk/reward analysis, and there were reasonable arguments for the main two options: - shooting their shot by trading picks and spending cap space for Rodgers; - decent floor / moderate ceiling pick-up in Carr, Mayfield, etc, while retaining picks/cap. The added complexity was that we have essentially no idea how much influence ownership chose to exert on the decision. We also don't know what sort of discussions there were regarding future contracts for Douglas and Saleh. Like, out of the two main options listed above, there was no objective right or wrong decision to be made in the spring/summer of 2023. Both sides had their proponents and detractors. Both sides would have to cross their fingers come kick-off weekend and hope for good luck. So if you're a GM and coach who want new contracts, then yeah Rodgers makes sense, because you have the upshot of a possible Super Bowl run, and the silver lining that a season-ending injury to Rodgers could shield you from dismissal. Whereas Carr, Mayfield, etc, the baseline expectation goes up to Wild Card + competing for the division, but the upside is much lower. And will ownership view that as good enough, considering the defense and breakout skill players on rookie deals (for now)? However The choice to trade for Rodgers did not have to necessarily mandate giving up the picks they did, signing the former Packer FAs they did, hiring the OC they did, (not) signing the backup QB they did(n't), and then staying the course with Zach after Rodgers tore his achilles. And if the rationale was "Rodgers won't play ball without Hackett, Cobb, a backup who won't challenge him, etc" then those risk/reward outlooks have to be reassessed. You can't simply "go all-in" and then simply watch the season play out, the analogy doesn't go that far.
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Nov 7, 2023 19:53
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indigi posted:yeah they drafted their backup QB at 2 overall
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Nov 7, 2023 19:53
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Speaking as someone who was always too small/scrawny to play football growing up but with experience in other sports, it's such a fast game with so many moving bodies in a compact space that I understand why so few QBs are good at the professional level. It doesn't excuse some of the egregious dumb poo poo that Wilson et al do, but it's easy to understand how the mental side just doesn't stack up for some people.
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Nov 7, 2023 19:55
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kalensc posted:then staying the course with Zach after Rodgers tore his achilles. What's craziest is this ^^. He got injured on the 5th snap of the loving season! Ok, so you know Zach Wilson is not ready to be starter (not that he ever will be), go and find a someone who can at least get you closer to that Carr/Mayfield level of league average play. There is no reason to let the rest of your team be drowned over the remaining 16 games by the anchor that is Wilson.
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Nov 7, 2023 19:57
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if they'd traded for Dobbs at the deadline, this Jets team would be in the race to host a playoff game. rolling with Zach after week 3 is inexcusable
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Nov 7, 2023 20:00
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Nodoze posted:The Jets roster is too good to have settled for Derek Carr with Rodgers available Diva Cupcake posted:The rationale is that a team's ceiling with Derek Carr in the AFC is maybe the wildcard. With Derek Carr at QB, the Jets are probably odds-on favorites to win the Super Bowl. Like, I think people are really underselling how utterly insane the defense is for that team to be at .500 with Zach Wilson leading the offense - all the top-tier quarterbacks they've played have been humiliated, and they clearly wouldn't have had to win any shootouts in the playoffs. They just needed plain old not-terrible quarterbacking and instead took a huge swing on an old man and all his friends, and this is the result.
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Nov 7, 2023 20:03
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Black Lighter posted:With Derek Carr at QB, the Jets are probably odds-on favorites to win the Super Bowl. Like, I think people are really underselling how utterly insane the defense is for that team to be at .500 with Zach Wilson leading the offense - all the top-tier quarterbacks they've played have been humiliated, and they clearly wouldn't have had to win any shootouts in the playoffs. They just needed plain old not-terrible quarterbacking and instead took a huge swing on an old man and all his friends, and this is the result. basically yeah. to me going so hard for Rodgers was a clear mistake but not a firable one and there was a deece rationalization for it. keeping Wilson as QB2 was a terrible, terrible mistake that should have had Douglas on the hot seat, and not upgrading between the Bills game and the deadline should have gotten him fired
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Nov 7, 2023 20:12
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sirtommygunn posted:You only believe that because Rodgers never got the chance to show he was not the big name you remember him to be. He got hurt fast enough that he can live on as a what if fantasy in your head that is always going to be better than reality. I don't know if you remember the 4 snaps he played but he looked like poo poo and there's nothing to say that wouldn't have continued throughout the season, or that he wouldn't have gotten hurt later. How Rodgers looked for those plays looked exactly how he looked for the last decade. He fucks around for a bunch of plays and then pulls a 24 yard miracle pass outta his rear end.
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Nov 7, 2023 21:04
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The worst part of Aaron Rodgers to the Jets is having to hear about him every single day when he’s not even playing
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Nov 7, 2023 21:06
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Grittybeard posted:Yeah this is a better way of putting it I think.
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Nov 7, 2023 21:24
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Allow me to retort: Carr could have the 1985 Chicago Bears defense and he wouldn't be the odds-on favorite to win the SB
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Nov 7, 2023 21:26
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kiimo posted:Allow me to retort: Carr could have the 1985 Chicago Bears defense and he wouldn't be the odds-on favorite to win the SB
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Nov 7, 2023 21:31
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Derek Carr has a top 10 defense right now and is barely leading the lovely NFC South
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Nov 7, 2023 21:38
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AndrewP posted:Derek Carr has a top 10 defense right now and is barely leading the lovely NFC South And they'd be a 3 win team if Taysom wasn't doing most of the heavy lifting.
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Nov 7, 2023 21:43
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Derek Carr loving SUCKS
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Nov 7, 2023 21:48
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very generous to describe 72 YDs passing, 255 rushing, and 142 receiving as heavy lifting for half a season all those gadget plays where Taysom slips under center to be the least likely to pass QB while Carr stands out there as the least likely to receive decoy have been pretty bad in every game I've watched, they really need to just rotate the dude between TE and RB and skip the bullshit The337th fucked around with this message at 22:09 on Nov 7, 2023 |
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Nov 7, 2023 21:57
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New Orleans needs a new offensive coordinator so it's business as usual for Carr dealing with idiots calling plays. Not saying he isn't playing bad this year because sure, he really hasn't been great.
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Nov 7, 2023 22:07
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The337th posted:very generous to describe 72 YDs passing, 255 rushing, and 142 receiving as heavy lifting for half a season So many of these yards were key situations. He's rarely ever like catching a 5 yard pass on first down.
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Nov 7, 2023 22:17
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Black Sunshine posted:New Orleans needs a new offensive coordinator so it's business as usual for Carr dealing with idiots calling plays. Maybe he shouldn't have willingly joined a team with Dennis Allen and crew.
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Nov 7, 2023 22:18
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PostNouveau posted:So many of these yards were key situations. He's rarely ever like catching a 5 yard pass on first down. It's this. So many times it seems like a drive is about to stall and here comes Taysom and his bullshit to keep things moving.
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Nov 7, 2023 22:20
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Impossibly Perfect Sphere posted:Maybe he shouldn't have willingly joined a team with Dennis Allen and crew. He was scorned by the Raiders and then by the Jets so he wanted to go to a place where he could be moody and wear eyeliner without being judged so what better place than the home of hot topic/gothic culture?
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Nov 7, 2023 23:33
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Black Lighter posted:With Derek Carr at QB, the Jets are probably odds-on favorites to win the Super Bowl. Like, I think people are really underselling how utterly insane the defense is for that team to be at .500 with Zach Wilson leading the offense - all the top-tier quarterbacks they've played have been humiliated, and they clearly wouldn't have had to win any shootouts in the playoffs. They just needed plain old not-terrible quarterbacking and instead took a huge swing on an old man and all his friends, and this is the result. This thought experiment is unnecessary, we already have a 2021/2022 Broncos to look at
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Nov 7, 2023 23:40
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wandler20 posted:It's this. So many times it seems like a drive is about to stall and here comes Taysom and his bullshit to keep things moving. It’s true, Taysom does own.
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Nov 8, 2023 00:09
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AndrewP posted:Derek Carr has a top 10 defense right now and is barely leading the lovely NFC South Again, the Jets are .500 with arguably the worst starting quarterback of the 21st century. That's not just a top 10-caliber defense or a great defense - that's a historic defense. With Trent Dilfer level production, we'd be talking about them in the same breath as the 2000 Ravens. Derek Carr, Gardner Minshew, Jacoby Brisett, throw any reasonably experienced low-to-mid tier starter in there and they at least compete for a title.
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Nov 8, 2023 00:11
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Black Lighter posted:Again, the Jets are .500 with arguably the worst starting quarterback of the 21st century. That's not just a top 10-caliber defense or a great defense - that's a historic defense. With Trent Dilfer level production, we'd be talking about them in the same breath as the 2000 Ravens. Derek Carr, Gardner Minshew, Jacoby Brisett, throw any reasonably experienced low-to-mid tier starter in there and they at least compete for a title. lmao Zach Wilson is bad but have some loving perspective
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Nov 8, 2023 00:12
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Black Lighter posted:Again, the Jets are .500 with arguably the worst starting quarterback of the 21st century. That's not just a top 10-caliber defense or a great defense - that's a historic defense. With Trent Dilfer level production, we'd be talking about them in the same breath as the 2000 Ravens. Derek Carr, Gardner Minshew, Jacoby Brisett, throw any reasonably experienced low-to-mid tier starter in there and they at least compete for a title. absofuckinlutely not. they're a really good defense but that's about it 
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Nov 8, 2023 00:14
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The Jets are a very good defense bouyed by teams knowing that as long as they don't turn the ball over, they'll win off Zach's errors, so don't try anything stupid.
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Nov 8, 2023 00:15
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Black Lighter posted:Again, the Jets are .500 with arguably the worst starting quarterback of the 21st century. That's not just a top 10-caliber defense or a great defense - that's a historic defense. With Trent Dilfer level production, we'd be talking about them in the same breath as the 2000 Ravens. Derek Carr, Gardner Minshew, Jacoby Brisett, throw any reasonably experienced low-to-mid tier starter in there and they at least compete for a title. This is silly. The Ravens, Chiefs, Jaguars, and Cowboys all have comparable or better defense than the Jets. The only thing the NYJ compete for without a top half of the league QB is the opportunity to get thrashed by a contender in the playoffs.
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Nov 8, 2023 00:18
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I think they’re firmly in the top 3 defenses in the league. Definitely not historic. All of those teams have the luxury of a quarterback that can provide some semblance of rest to their defense though. The Jets do not.
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Nov 8, 2023 00:28
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Sour Diesel posted:absofuckinlutely not. they're a really good defense but that's about it The Jets are also bottom 10 in time of possession because Zach Wilson. Compare that to the 2000 Ravens, who mostly won the time of possession battle because Tony Banks/Trent Dilfer were at least competent enough to ensure that not every drive outside of garbage time would be a three-and-out. Like, look at what the defense did last night when they actually won TOP - before that last pick they'd only given up 13 points and 191 yards to one of the top quarterbacks in the game. With a QB who could keep them off the field from time to time, the Jets would probably be at least 7-1 off the back of the defense,, and we'd absolutely be talking about them in terms of the greatest defenses ever right now.
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Nov 8, 2023 00:45
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Jets may not be historic but they are a top defense with a specialty against the important part of offenses in football. they never get to rest and have to start in their own end more than other defenses. i am beaten to all of this tiny post but that's the risk you take when eating delicious sal.t and vinegar chippys
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Nov 8, 2023 00:47
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I will trade you my Jets fandom for some of your delicious sal.t and vinegar chippys.
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Nov 8, 2023 00:49
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no need. *shakes some chippys out in a bowl for you* need to save room for a big handburger
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Nov 8, 2023 00:53
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