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Greetings. It's time for this quarter's feedback thread. Here you are encouraged to tell us your thoughts on how D&D is going. Whether you're a lurker or a poster, who reads one thread or many, we'd like to hear from you. As always, you can give feedback by posting in the thread, PMing me, or you may post in the thread anonymously by PMing me the post and I'll make it for you. D&D rules will be relaxed here somewhat, since we're talking about the forums rather than educational subjects, so citations will be less valuable than normal, and personal opinions will be more valuable. All I ask is that you continue to present your ideas with honesty as you would in normal D&D, be respectful to other users, and don't spam the thread, by which I mean posting the same thing repeatedly to increase its exposure at the expense of other posters. Unfortunately, you must refrain from posting here if you're forumbanned, and refrain from giving feedback about threads in which you're threadbanned. You can however PM me if you think it's been long enough and you'd like to appeal either one.
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Nov 3, 2023 22:30
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POSSIBLE FEEDBACK TOPICS Here are some things that are particularly relevant, and you're encouraged to share feedback on if you have any. Election Season Because we have no major competitive primaries this cycle, things will probably be heating up later than usual. However, I'd still like to hear anyone's thoughts on how to deal with the increased contention that will inevitably come from an election. I think the D&D rules and moderation policies should be able to handle this as-is, but would still like to hear about what areas might need to be emphasized or what considerations we may have missed. I might, in particular, more strictly enforce the rule against arguments that aren't fresh or falsifiable to avoid going in circles or excessive posting of talking points and rhetoric. Violent Content While this seems to happen more in places other than D&D from what I can tell, there's been discussion of how to deal with media showing violence, death or gore, particularly related to wars. D&D's currently policy is as follows: inline material that some might see while scrolling is a ban, and has an additional +30 days if it was done intentionally to troll or shock. Material that is properly tagged and linked but is posted gratuitously, without a legitimate purpose in discussion, receives a major punishment at mods' discretion. Material that in some way serves D&D's educational purpose, such as a CNN article that includes photos of dead bodies, is allowed, though should still have a warning if one might find it disturbing. If you feel that policy should be more strict or more lenient, or is good as-is, please let me know. The one part that can't change (and I would not change it anyway) is banning for inline gore, as that is a general grey forums policy put down by the admins.
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Nov 3, 2023 22:31
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A weekend is too short for a feedback thread.
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Nov 3, 2023 22:31
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Mischievous Mink posted:A weekend is too short for a feedback thread. What do you feel would be a more appropriate length of time?
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Nov 3, 2023 22:35
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Koos Group posted:What do you feel would be a more appropriate length of time? I think if it has to be a temporary thing then a week or two gives more time for people to respond to each other and build a better consensus on what issues are considered pressing and how people feel about them .
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Nov 3, 2023 22:42
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Mischievous Mink posted:I think if it has to be a temporary thing then a week or two gives more time for people to respond to each other and build a better consensus on what issues are considered pressing and how people feel about them . I second this. The feedback thread needs to stay open for at least one week, please. Some people have to work on weekends and might not see the feedback thread until too late. The I/P thread especially is starting to get cluttered with posts complaining about moderation. This D&D feedback thread is desperately needed to air grievances and figure out what to do.
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Nov 4, 2023 00:55
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Koos Group posted:What do you feel would be a more appropriate length of time? At least a week. But this is also something that gets brought up in every single feedback thread in the past, so it doesn't really give anyone the impression that the feedback is being listened to at all.
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Nov 4, 2023 01:12
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Is D&D a modern data driven operation? The current moderation experiment has been going on long enough that we should have data on if it has increased or decreased the number of posters regularly posting in d&d
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Nov 4, 2023 01:36
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Mischievous Mink posted:I think if it has to be a temporary thing then a week or two gives more time for people to respond to each other and build a better consensus on what issues are considered pressing and how people feel about them . Victar posted:I second this. The feedback thread needs to stay open for at least one week, please. Some people have to work on weekends and might not see the feedback thread until too late. Fister Roboto posted:At least a week. But this is also something that gets brought up in every single feedback thread in the past, so it doesn't really give anyone the impression that the feedback is being listened to at all. Alright, I'll try leaving it open longer than usual this time. Maybe not an entire week, but into the middle of the next work week so those who are busy on the weekends still have a chance. Gumball Gumption posted:Is D&D a modern data driven operation? The current moderation experiment has been going on long enough that we should have data on if it has increased or decreased the number of posters regularly posting in d&d As far as I know the forums software doesn't record that sort of thing for individual boards, just the forums as a whole. Though the primary goal of the current moderation regime isn't to maximize engagement, but to have the highest possible quality of posts. And, secondarily, to avoid mod burnout like was happening right before I came on.
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Nov 4, 2023 01:54
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Koos Group posted:Election Season 1. What you are telling us by this statement is that you and other mods have chosen not to enforce the existing rules on fresh and falsifiable claims, which is why USCE has been repeatedly driven into a ditch for extended periods for entirely predictable reasons, by entirely predictable users, including across the past week with the electoralism bullshit. I have a crazy idea: stop coming up with excuses to stop enforcing the rules. Nothing, nothing else matters if you're still unwilling to enforce the rules, no matter how many of them you make up. This is especially visible in the I/P thread, where the entire ruleset is routinely thrown out the window. "Martial law" should not be a euphemism for "most of the rules don't apply, and we're going to randomly sprinkle day probes in response to posts that feel offensive or angry". To wit, Rigel posted:A quick note on "whataboutism": 2. Stop making up ad hoc policies of not enforcing the rules. For the love of god, it's the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. There is probably no single subject on earth more prone to deflecting arguments and discussion of factual claims with recriminating reversals. Declaring (in the middle of the thread, no less) that the most routine way to poo poo up discussion is fair game has the effect of maximizing the amount of conflict, reports, and moderation burden the thread generates. Koos Group posted:Violent Content You are wrong. There is no general policy on this from the admins. One admin declared at the end of one SAD thread that it was their personal policy. It has then continued to fail to be enforced, because like the DnD mods, the admins are apparently genetically averse to reaching a consensus and stating policy and loving sticking to that policy. 3. Read the forum. If all you are doing is clearing report queues and making up every excuse possible to not enforce the rules, then the obvious, immediate effect is that you have no clue what effect your actions are having on the space. If enforcement of the rules is inconsistent, it gets abused by trolls, and users who want to have a conversation remotely grounded in reality are driven off the subforum. That especially applies to people who want to share subject expertise. I have made these points across multiple feedback threads. You keep ignoring them, as you seem to ignore almost all other feedback. What conclusion should the people looking for good faith discussion take from a moderation team that seeks feedback, ignores that feedback, and deliberately refuses to consistently enforce the rules? From a year ago: Discendo Vox posted:1. It is very frustrating to see someone violate the rules, and instead of applying them, the mods proceed to ask the user questions and give them control of the thread for several pages. Every single time this happens, the only effect is to draw out the harm to discussion that the rule is supposed to prevent, and the original violator either a) gets probated anyway or b) they don't, and all people looking to poo poo up discussion get an object lesson in forms of discussion-making GBS threads that the mods will facilitate. When you do this, you are making moderation harder for yourselves in the future, and making the subforum less useable for everyone else. Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 03:41 on Nov 4, 2023 |
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Nov 4, 2023 03:32
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I actually can't remember what kind of Hindenburg-disaster ate the last one, but could we have a clancychat-type exclusive thread for electroralism for the election season?
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Nov 4, 2023 04:04
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Discendo Vox posted:1. What you are telling us by this statement is that you and other mods have chosen not to enforce the existing rules on fresh and falsifiable claims, which is why USCE has been repeatedly driven into a ditch for extended periods for entirely predictable reasons, by entirely predictable users, including across the past week with the electoralism bullshit. I have a crazy idea: stop coming up with excuses to stop enforcing the rules. Nothing, nothing else matters if you're still unwilling to enforce the rules, no matter how many of them you make up. This is especially visible in the I/P thread, where the entire ruleset is routinely thrown out the window. "Martial law" should not be a euphemism for "most of the rules don't apply, and we're going to randomly sprinkle day probes in response to posts that feel offensive or angry". The reason I said that is because the "fresh" part of fresh and falsifiable is somewhat subjective. It's based on what we see around the internet or the forums to the point that it has become tiresome, but everyone gets political arguments from different places and some people spend much more time reading these sorts of things, so what might be stale for one would be fresh for another. Enforcing that rule more strictly would mean both having less hesitation to punish, and doing more research such as asking a specialist in a particular thread or skimming a thread to see whether something has been said to death. There's also the rule's exception to consider, which is when something that isn't necessarily fresh but DOES directly refute another argument might be permitted. Discendo Vox posted:2. Stop making up ad hoc policies of not enforcing the rules. For the love of god, it's the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. There is probably no single subject on earth more prone to deflecting arguments and discussion of factual claims with recriminating reversals. Declaring (in the middle of the thread, no less) that the most routine way to poo poo up discussion is fair game has the effect of maximizing the amount of conflict, reports, and moderation burden the thread generates. I agree that this was something of a mistake and will speak to Rigel about it, and clarify what whataboutism is for the purpose of D&D rules to the thread. Discendo Vox posted:You are wrong. There is no general policy on this from the admins. One admin declared at the end of one SAD thread that it was their personal policy. It has then continued to fail to be enforced, because like the DnD mods, the admins are apparently genetically averse to reaching a consensus and stating policy and loving sticking to that policy. That's a bit outside my purview. All I can do is tell you what the policy I've devised for D&D is. I've spoken to the admins and more than one seems to agree on that particular point mentioned; I also agree with it, and am unlikely to budge, so it's somewhat moot anyway. Rappaport posted:I actually can't remember what kind of Hindenburg-disaster ate the last one, but could we have a clancychat-type exclusive thread for electroralism for the election season? What does "clancychat-type" mean in this context?
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Nov 4, 2023 04:14
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Koos Group posted:What does "clancychat-type" mean in this context? Oh, that if there's a dedicated election thread (or /s), electroralism chat can be told to go to their own thread instead of distracting from obsessing over polls and whatnot.
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Nov 4, 2023 04:44
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Rappaport posted:Oh, that if there's a dedicated election thread (or /s), electroralism chat can be told to go to their own thread instead of distracting from obsessing over polls and whatnot. Containment threads for electoralism arguments have been attempted multiple times. It doesn't work because the the point of the electoralism argument is to express opposition to discussion of the election - and to disrupt that discussion with an impossible counterfactual. Creating a containment thread just makes the people directed there angrier, and does not stop them from making GBS threads up other threads. Clancychat threads by contrast somewhat worked because they were driven by a combination of ignorance and anxiety, which can be corrected to some extent with factual discussion. Even then, though, it still required active moderation, and the person who did that is gone. Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 04:58 on Nov 4, 2023 |
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Nov 4, 2023 04:54
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Speaking from the perspective of a mostly lurker in both D&D and CSPAM, the fact that a person in D&D can't post without CSPAMERS reposting and then mocking others for their thoughts (against the rules and creepy as gently caress) really pisses me off. Why would I post in threads I enjoy if there is a risk that a bunch of authoritarians are going to get weird about it? You realize that something could actually happen to someone IRL because of this right? This poo poo was supposed to stop and nothing is done about it. I realize that you guys have a hard job but sweet jesus if you are going to claim that hard job please do it. Enforce the rules. Don't make up reasons not to enforce the rules. Just do it, if an innocent poster catches the occasional 6er for something that might not otherwise have warranted a probe, so be it. One line mea culpa, if that and move on. Enforce the rules. Just do it. Enforce the rules.
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Nov 4, 2023 11:40
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Koos Group posted:As far as I know the forums software doesn't record that sort of thing for individual boards, just the forums as a whole. Though the primary goal of the current moderation regime isn't to maximize engagement, but to have the highest possible quality of posts. And, secondarily, to avoid mod burnout like was happening right before I came on. Sincerely, keeping D&D low engagement and boring is very good.
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Nov 4, 2023 12:14
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Neurolimal posted:
I totally agree with the recent push to remove gore posting from these forums but if this is the desired end result I think it’s gone too far. Some freak going “check out this soldier catching a hot one  ” is the issue, not the photos that could accompany a news article.No shade toward Neurolimal, just the most recent example I saw.
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Nov 4, 2023 15:53
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The actual gore and death is what I don't want to see on the forums and imo the mod team has done a good job of keeping it off. Posters getting weird about said gore and death is just what happens when it's allowed to stay. And the commonly accepted metric or "major news outlet is using this image, that means it's ok" is imo a very bad one. A picture is horrible regardless of what a private entity or government says.
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Nov 4, 2023 16:55
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Giggle Goose posted:Speaking from the perspective of a mostly lurker in both D&D and CSPAM, the fact that a person in D&D can't post without CSPAMERS reposting and then mocking others for their thoughts (against the rules and creepy as gently caress) really pisses me off. Why would I post in threads I enjoy if there is a risk that a bunch of authoritarians are going to get weird about it? You realize that something could actually happen to someone IRL because of this right? This poo poo was supposed to stop and nothing is done about it. What occurs in C-SPAM is a C-SPAM issue that I do not have jurisdiction over. There is already a rule in D&D that one can't post here while posting about the conversation elsewhere, to avoid trolling or quote farming, and that rule is fully enforced as far as I know. In addition, in the several years that C-SPAM has been mocking D&D, it has never lead to anything happening to any D&D posters irl, and using the forums for doxxing or IRL harassment is already a permabannable offense. The Top G posted:I totally agree with the recent push to remove gore posting from these forums but if this is the desired end result I think it’s gone too far. Some freak going “check out this soldier catching a hot one Cpt_Obvious posted:The actual gore and death is what I don't want to see on the forums and imo the mod team has done a good job of keeping it off. Posters getting weird about said gore and death is just what happens when it's allowed to stay. I would not want any explicit imagery to appear inline even if it's part of a news article, and would want a warning included if linking to one. However, I'm unlikely to ever forbid linking a news article itself if properly tagged, because that would begin making us weird and isolated from what is, for better or worse, normal and common content, and most importantly it would get in the way of information and discussion.
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Nov 4, 2023 17:20
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As a D&D lurker: I feel it is way too challenging to be banned (or long term probated) from the forums or this subforum. A lot of the bad actors in this subforum (and the I/P thread in particular) have extensive existing rap sheets. I think there needs to be a more thoughtful approach on how to probate offenders that seem unable to engage in civil discussion despite being members on SA for years. Appreciate that D&D, by its nature, is going to bring out emotional arguments from people. But when discussion devolves into low content insults, a firmer hand is needed from the mod team. A more extensive or refined rule book will not address this issue when posters are making blatantly making inappropriate posts. Admiral101 fucked around with this message at 18:14 on Nov 4, 2023 |
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Nov 4, 2023 18:11
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this is just personal and ive complained each feedback to the same answer but remove mods who were involved in "hoped they'll move on" quarantine tara reade thread also shouldn't have added the in response to "never vote for rapists" posted:The nation is on fire, we don't have time for unrealistic nonsense. i don't expect this, but im putting in my formal complaints again
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Nov 4, 2023 18:20
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One thing I liked about some iteration of the Ukraine threads is that the OP had some common recurring topics where good/fresh viewpoints were unlikely summarized and banned from being re-litigated in the thread. I know having the greatest hits banned can be off putting for non regular posters, but I also don't think anybody has anything interesting new to say on the the ethics regarding not voting or violent resistance. Some contentious topics are also so toxic that even mentioning them seems like a troll at this point and its often the people who get heated responding that catch probes rather than the instigator which feels real bad. The whole notion already falls under II. B. 1, so it would really just be a more rigorous statement of what is "fresh."
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Nov 4, 2023 20:15
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Why are people like Mister Fister allowed to post racist conspiracy theory level nonsense in the Palestine/Israel thread completely unpunished? You probe pro-Palestinian people for much less all the time in there.
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Nov 4, 2023 21:29
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Fister Roboto posted:At least a week. But this is also something that gets brought up in every single feedback thread in the past, so it doesn't really give anyone the impression that the feedback is being listened to at all. Exactly so. Leave it up at least a week.
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Nov 4, 2023 22:58
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Reik posted:Why are people like Mister Fister allowed to post racist conspiracy theory level nonsense in the Palestine/Israel thread completely unpunished? You probe pro-Palestinian people for much less all the time in there. I would need to have examples of posts by Mister Fister that were reported but not probed to explain exactly why they weren't. There is no policy that pro-Palestinian people are treated any differently than pro-Israeli people, though because pro-Palestinian is something like a 90-10 majority, it would make sense that there would be more probations of that side overall even if the rates are the same.
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Nov 4, 2023 23:15
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Koos Group posted:I would need to have examples of posts by Mister Fister that were reported but not probed to explain exactly why they weren't. There is no policy that pro-Palestinian people are treated any differently than pro-Israeli people, though because pro-Palestinian is something like a 90-10 majority, it would make sense that there would be more probations of that side overall even if the rates are the same. Sure! https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?noseen=0&threadid=3754814&pagenumber=484&perpage=40#post535657365 In here Fister posts 3 tweets, one from MEMRI TV, which is well known to not be a reliable sources, one from some random bluecheck with 1,500 followers, and one from @StopAntisemitism, a bias twitter account that has spent most of the last week doxxing women that tore down "missing persons" posters in the USA for Israeli captives. None of these are reliable sources, but the third one is at least relatively easy to verify, even though it is putting the onus on the readers to verify what they posted. The first two are just inexcusable tweets to post without any context, explanation, or justification. I know this post was reported because I tried to report it and got the message that it had been reported recently. Of course there isn't a written down D&D rule for explicit bias against pro-Palestinian posters, if that was the case this thread would look very different I imagine, but I don't know how else to explain this post making through administration when someone got probed for posting a tweet from a Democracy Now journalist citing the Gaza Ministry of Health that got overturned after people called it out. That isn't a numbers issue.
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Nov 4, 2023 23:27
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Is d&d supposed to be a leftist safe space or a place to discuss and debate? If you dare to disrupt the status quo you will get a glut of posters throwing themselves at you until you either get probed for not responding to them, or get probed for responding to their attacks of bad faith that lead to no room for substantive response. A sizable portion of which who retreat to cspam. If mods are only judging on reports and not the thread that’s going to benefit those participating in the group think. Thought d&d was the place where that isn’t what is accepted, or is the leftist cultivated community more important?
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Nov 4, 2023 23:28
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Mid-Life Crisis posted:Is d&d supposed to be a leftist safe space or a place to discuss and debate? If you dare to disrupt the status quo you will get a glut of posters throwing themselves at you until you either get probed for not responding to them, or get probed for responding to their attacks of bad faith that lead to no room for substantive response. A sizable portion of which who retreat to cspam. If mods are only judging on reports and not the thread that’s going to benefit those participating in the group think. Thought d&d was the place where that isn’t what is accepted, or is the leftist cultivated community more important? I moderate other debate communities online and generally what we find is that debate forums tend to drift left over time because the conservative posters refuse to reply, argue in bad faith, and generally don't follow the rules. I often see moderation teams specifically go out of their way to allow conservative positions with rulebreaking so as to avoid the appearance of bias or creation of an "echo chamber". If you "dare to disrupt the status quo", simply come with good evidence since you know you will be challenged. A lot of people challenging you isn't some unreasonable thing, you said the point was to disrupt. This isn't a martial arts movie, the fighters don't stand back and challenge you singly. If you feel you're being attacked in bad faith, report the posts.
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Nov 4, 2023 23:35
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On the whole, conservative thought has kinda proven itself to only be worth of ridicule...
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Nov 5, 2023 00:12
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Given I just saw the guy I was replying to explain how trans rights and immigration policy isn't a federal issue and that BLM could learn from the entirely peaceful Jan 6 selfi-takers, yah you can ignore his dumb rear end. But it was a great illustration of my point!
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Nov 5, 2023 00:24
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Reik posted:Sure! It appears that post was handled by a different mod, and no explanation was given for not acting on the report (this is normal due to the high number of reports we receive). MEMRI had not been discussed during the course of the current conflict as being unreliable until after Mister Fister posted it, so that can be considered an honest mistake, and now that the truth has come to light others who post it without explaining themselves will be probed for not acknowledging rebuttals/ongoing debate. His second source does clearly seem to violate the rule against Twitter randos, so I will consider your posting of it here an appeal and punish it accordingly, with a warning to use better sources in general. Reik posted:Of course there isn't a written down D&D rule for explicit bias against pro-Palestinian posters, if that was the case this thread would look very different I imagine, but I don't know how else to explain this post making through administration when someone got probed for posting a tweet from a Democracy Now journalist citing the Gaza Ministry of Health that got overturned after people called it out. That isn't a numbers issue. That actually could be considered a numbers issue, as it was caused by myself rushing through the large volume of reports, and the people who make up the bulk of the thread and are therefore there bulk of reports often are more likely to be victims of that sort of arbitrary error. Mid-Life Crisis posted:Is d&d supposed to be a leftist safe space or a place to discuss and debate? If you dare to disrupt the status quo you will get a glut of posters throwing themselves at you until you either get probed for not responding to them, or get probed for responding to their attacks of bad faith that lead to no room for substantive response. A sizable portion of which who retreat to cspam. If mods are only judging on reports and not the thread that’s going to benefit those participating in the group think. Thought d&d was the place where that isn’t what is accepted, or is the leftist cultivated community more important? D&D is intended as a place where people of any political or philosophical persuasion can discuss and debate. If a large number of posters disagree with you, that is not a moderation issue unless they are insulting you, acting in bad faith or repeating each others' points, all of which should be reported.
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Nov 5, 2023 00:24
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Koos Group posted:It appears that post was handled by a different mod, and no explanation was given for not acting on the report (this is normal due to the high number of reports we receive). MEMRI had not been discussed during the course of the current conflict as being unreliable until after Mister Fister posted it, so that can be considered an honest mistake, and now that the truth has come to light others who post it without explaining themselves will be probed for not acknowledging rebuttals/ongoing debate. His second source does clearly seem to violate the rule against Twitter randos, so I will consider your posting of it here an appeal and punish it accordingly, with a warning to use better sources in general. You say MEMRI had not been discussed as being unreliable so it could be an honest mistake, had there been previous discussions of the Democracy Now journalist as being unreliable?
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Nov 5, 2023 01:03
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shove the rules up your rear end uwhahaha
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Nov 5, 2023 01:30
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Reik posted:You say MEMRI had not been discussed as being unreliable so it could be an honest mistake, had there been previous discussions of the Democracy Now journalist as being unreliable? Probably not, since that journalist was reliable. 16-bit Butt-Head posted:shove the rules up your rear end uwhahaha I... must decline.
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Nov 5, 2023 01:47
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Koos Group posted:Probably not, since that journalist was reliable. Just had an unreliable-sounding name and an unreliable-looking headshot as a profile picture, I suppose.
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Nov 5, 2023 01:55
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Koos Group posted:What occurs in C-SPAM is a C-SPAM issue that I do not have jurisdiction over. There is already a rule in D&D that one can't post here while posting about the conversation elsewhere, to avoid trolling or quote farming, and that rule is fully enforced as far as I know. In addition, in the several years that C-SPAM has been mocking D&D, it has never lead to anything happening to any D&D posters irl, and using the forums for doxxing or IRL harassment is already a permabannable offense. I feel like having one-sided rules of "you can't mock them but they can mock you" is only going to breed extra resentment instead of defuse it like the rule was originally intended when it was implemented. Since it was, well, intended to be mirrored in C-SPAM, but they've dropped the rule.
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Nov 5, 2023 02:22
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Kchama posted:I feel like having one-sided rules of "you can't mock them but they can mock you" is only going to breed extra resentment instead of defuse it like the rule was originally intended when it was implemented. Since it was, well, intended to be mirrored in C-SPAM, but they've dropped the rule. Well, having mockery of another board here is very much against my intent, which is for D&D to be educational, with information you can use everywhere, not just on SA. That's why there's the rule against posting about forums. So if you see it as unfair you would need to convince them not to do it in C-SPAM.
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Nov 5, 2023 02:27
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Kchama posted:I feel like having one-sided rules of "you can't mock them but they can mock you" is only going to breed extra resentment instead of defuse it like the rule was originally intended when it was implemented. Since it was, well, intended to be mirrored in C-SPAM, but they've dropped the rule. That's what PYF is for. Everyone is also free to post in CSPAM for discussion and debate. I think CSPAM posters feel the need to quote and reply to posts in their own way with a freedom that d&d rightfully doesn't allow. CSPAM doesn't have those rules, you have the freedom to come in and discuss and debate as you wish so there is not really a need to quote CSPAM in D&D. Gumball Gumption fucked around with this message at 02:42 on Nov 5, 2023 |
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Nov 5, 2023 02:39
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Kchama posted:I feel like having one-sided rules of "you can't mock them but they can mock you" is only going to breed extra resentment instead of defuse it like the rule was originally intended when it was implemented. Since it was, well, intended to be mirrored in C-SPAM, but they've dropped the rule. I agree that you should legalize syq in d&d, this person has good ideas
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Nov 5, 2023 02:43
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I'd also suggest reflecting on why you feel there is an us vs them. Personally I post in both as a global citizen.
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Nov 5, 2023 02:45
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