USCE 2024: Macklemore Is The New Michael Moore

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Riptor: Apr 13, 2003; here's to feelin' good all the time

FizFashizzle posted:

Of course verbal fluency is a measure of cognition

Is it?

# ¿ Feb 10, 2024 15:49

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# ¿ May 22, 2024 18:24

Riptor: Apr 13, 2003; here's to feelin' good all the time

FizFashizzle posted:

Literally part of the moca.

Certain dementias present with communication deficits early.

What you're quoting is arguing that someone with dementia presents with speech problems. But your original argument is that someone with speech problems is likely to have dementia which are very different things

# ¿ Feb 10, 2024 16:53

Riptor: Apr 13, 2003; here's to feelin' good all the time

FLIPADELPHIA posted:

Who actually gives a poo poo about the specific medical causes of Biden looking like a total idiot / semi-comatose fossil? The perception is what is important and no one is going to care about these "well actually it's a stutter that causes these hundreds of gaffes" explanations, even if they are correct. His age is a major concern and all of these verbal / mental mistakes are going to keep compounding the issue.

it's entirely separate from Biden's electability concerns but as someone who has friends who have/had stutters, I bristle strongly at the idea that "person sometimes mis-speaks"/"person doesn't speak as well as others would expect them" is equated with "person's brain is faulty", irrespective of their age, and I feel very inclined to shut that idea down immediately when it comes up, just as it did with Fetterman in the past year

# ¿ Feb 10, 2024 17:52

Riptor: Apr 13, 2003; here's to feelin' good all the time

Uncle Boogeyman posted:

i mean i think Fetterman having a stroke in the lead up to his election was more what got people concerned about the health of his brain

Which is fine, when he was (admittedly for a while) sight unseen. But since then he's used assistive devices and been mocked for it, and many similar criticisms (of him being "brain-dead", etc) that are being leveled at Biden were leveled at him, because he effectively has a speech disability and, importantly, not a cognitive one

# ¿ Feb 10, 2024 18:32

Riptor: Apr 13, 2003; here's to feelin' good all the time

I'm not entirely sure Trump has shown signs of mental decline, inasmuch as he started at the bottom of the fuckin moron barrel to begin with

# ¿ Feb 10, 2024 23:31

Riptor: Apr 13, 2003; here's to feelin' good all the time

Kith posted:

it would be nice if biden did anything to earn my vote outside of "not being trump"

Ignoring how willfully ignorant this is of recent history, how about just Biden's one existing and potential future scotus nomination(s). is that enough for you

# ¿ Feb 11, 2024 14:26

Riptor: Apr 13, 2003; here's to feelin' good all the time

RealityWarCriminal posted:

So the 6-3 court will become a 5-4 court? Inspiring. None of the conservative justices are even particularly old or obviously dying.

Yes, progress is better than nothing?

Thomas is 75 years old and alito is 73. Things happen

# ¿ Feb 11, 2024 15:47

Riptor: Apr 13, 2003; here's to feelin' good all the time

It's "bragging" when it doesn't support your goalpost moving

# ¿ Feb 11, 2024 21:25

Riptor: Apr 13, 2003; here's to feelin' good all the time

Eric Cantonese posted:

Meatball Ron getting a VP slot after all those insults getting traded around would be something else.

isn't trump's official residence florida now, and wouldn't that in turn mean that a Trump-Desantis ticket couldn't get Florida's electoral votes?

# ¿ Feb 21, 2024 16:49

Riptor: Apr 13, 2003; here's to feelin' good all the time

GlassEye-Boy posted:

without cell phones how are kids going to call their parents when a school shooting happens?!

you say this as a joke but even when I was in high school 400 years ago in the early 2000s and had a non-smartphone, this was absolutely on my mind and I don't begrudge current students for not wanting to be separated from their devices due to a potential emergency situation

# ¿ Feb 27, 2024 21:55

Riptor: Apr 13, 2003; here's to feelin' good all the time

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

It's been reported since the 80's that Trump has germaphobia and bathmophobia. There have been a bunch of books and people claiming it over the last few decades, but it hasn't been confirmed publicly and isn't part of his "medical records" that he released.

He's also very clearly terrified of and/or absolutely digusted by blood based on a bunch of statements and insults he's made, like Mika Brzezinski's supposed facelift-induced bleeding and his "blood coming out of her whereever" thing with Megyn Kelly

# ¿ Feb 29, 2024 17:22

Riptor: Apr 13, 2003; here's to feelin' good all the time

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

People still talk about his 2010 hot mic moment 14 years later

I mean... yes, he referenced it in the speech itself and it got a huge laugh

# ¿ Mar 8, 2024 18:55

Riptor: Apr 13, 2003; here's to feelin' good all the time

Bellmaker posted:

unalive

let's not

# ¿ Mar 12, 2024 12:59

Riptor: Apr 13, 2003; here's to feelin' good all the time

zoux posted:

How the hell is tiktok democracy

they do the dances and its funny so the app is okay

# ¿ Mar 13, 2024 16:24

Riptor: Apr 13, 2003; here's to feelin' good all the time

question for the "tiktok is good and fundamental to democracy" crowd: not that Meta is, you know, anything other than a completely separate nightmare, but what does TikTok do/allow for that Instagram reels do not?

# ¿ Mar 13, 2024 16:43

Riptor: Apr 13, 2003; here's to feelin' good all the time

Potato Salad posted:

I see the present sauce that makes Tiktok seem to activate young voters in a way I haven't seen before in my adult live and my extensive experience canvassing as valuable unto itself. Sure, we can argue about current vs future, first vs just another social media site, etc all day long. I argue that, at present, its a valuable tool for sharing and seeing what other normal Americans are experiencing and thinking, and for whatever reason it has a pulse on the authentic working-class experience in a manner far better than ever emerged on other platforms. That's why I see it as valauble and that's why I feel saddened that Congress seems to be so eager to stomp it out.

Right.... and so how would your opinion change if that sauce is leveraged towards "Taiwan is really just part of China; they shouldn't be their own state"?

# ¿ Mar 13, 2024 17:20

Riptor: Apr 13, 2003; here's to feelin' good all the time

Potato Salad posted:

I essentially ask you in return, "If the danger is so present, why isn't anyone in congress able to give anything substantive, instead just grandstanding or taking about camera-eye-dilation-heroin"?

Because as a Chinese company, the US government is not able to subpoena ByteDance's internal records to understand how their algorithm works and to what degree they may have their thumb on the scale

# ¿ Mar 13, 2024 17:28

Riptor: Apr 13, 2003; here's to feelin' good all the time

Shammypants posted:

The real question is in what universe is a TikTok of America Corporation not under continued scrutiny for allegedly putting their thumb on the scales despite any actual evidence of that occurring? If they sell or retain their current structure the story will be the same, politically at least. Meanwhile Twitter explicitly advocates for Christian White Nationalism.

Yes but that's an argument for more regulation of Twitter and a future TikTok of America, not an argument against changing the status quo of ByteDance

# ¿ Mar 13, 2024 17:29

Riptor: Apr 13, 2003; here's to feelin' good all the time

Mendrian posted:

Listen. Guys.

If your position is that TikTok is stupid because of the dancing and the dumb memes and you hate that people are on it all the time, you're being ignorant and old.

If your position is that all social media is bad, I can't argue with that. Not really. Because you're correct, it's all exploitative and they sell data and certainly nobody involved in it is running a charity. I essentially agree with that. But it is no worse than facebook and in many ways it is much better.

People who do not use TikTok tend to see a few things first; dance videos, thirst traps, stupid jokes and young people being painfully earnest. It rapidly funnels you into a particular part of TikTok based on your viewership and this is kind of where the crux is. TikTok is a haven for LGBTQ+ communities, for feminists, for fat and disabled people. It's got a lot of eye-roll content about mental health, yes, but it also lets people with serious trauma or conditions feel substantially less alone. Is this because TikTok is unique and no other platform can replace it? Well, we don't actually know that. Because the issue is not, 'Will another media platform be as popular?' because the answer is obviously yes. The issue is, how will these communities be treated on the new platform?

The software is not unique; the community is. There has never been a place with so many minority voices in one place before. Is it all good content? God no. Is it thanks to TikTok's incredible leftist policies? Again, obviously not. It is essentially a coincidence, an example of people using a platform for their own ends. And given time, TikTok would gently caress it up themselves, or the app would lose popularity as people moved on to other communities. However, the US government banning a platform like this is not the same as Myspace losing popularity and if that's how you see it you have completely got up your own rear end.

I am begging you all: if you are shaking your fist at TikTok and saying good riddance you are not properly in touch with what is happening and please try to get your head around it. If your position is that all social media sucks, then no problem, I agree, but it should probably start with the platform that all the boomers use to share misinformation.

For better or worse you're making the government's case for them. You're saying that TikTok is a place where marginalized communities have gathered and shared ideas with one another to the degree that they've become a very passionate community who are receptive to ideas promoted by that community. That a foreign power has the very real potential to influence the process by which this community communicates within itself as well as the ideas being promoted within it is an enormous concern to the US government.

# ¿ Mar 13, 2024 19:37

Riptor: Apr 13, 2003; here's to feelin' good all the time

Mendrian posted:

Then the US has a responsibility to address the means by which that 'influence' occurs, not to simply ban the community. Because it is not a problem unique to China and in fact could happen with any domestic app just as easily.

I was writing a response but this was better than anything I was able to put together:

Discendo Vox posted:

While the problem of discursive influence is not a problem unique to China, it's qualitatively different and of massively different scale when the entity in question is a proxy to a state actor and the state actor is famously sanguine about overt, massive propaganda systems of societal control.

Yep, exactly. The examples you cite of Russian propaganda, whereby state actors publish propaganda or engage in manipulation on a private platform, or even a situation where a private organization like Cambridge Analytica dupes people into providing data about themselves and then use that for further manipulative purposes are - to be clear - bad, (as is these two parallel things intersecting) but are substantively different from a state actor effectively owning a platform as well as all of its data, and indeed how that data is used. Russia was posting stuff on Facebook and hoping it stuck. They (to our knowledge) didn't have access to Facebook's internal data. Imagine if they did

Mendrian posted:

EDIT: Also what exactly is the 'enormous security concern'? I hear this a lot in this argument but no one wants to spell it out, like it's just obvious on its face.

As I mentioned upthread, maybe at some point in the future you start to notice a lot of messages promoting the idea that Taiwanese independence is actually a pretty absurd notion, and that, say, Politician A who opposes Chinese annexation of Taiwan is really just a warmonger and we should vote against them. How would you know that's an organic thought, and not something that's been algorithmically surfaced to you by someone with their thumb on the scale since, per the data that they have at their disposal, they've assessed that you've been receptive to previous, roughly similar messages in the past?

Riptor fucked around with this message at 20:05 on Mar 13, 2024

# ¿ Mar 13, 2024 20:02

Riptor: Apr 13, 2003; here's to feelin' good all the time

Potato Salad posted:

I don't know what the D&D rules are for saying that a post gives you a huge fascism red flag with alarm bells ringing.

okay

# ¿ Mar 13, 2024 20:11

Riptor: Apr 13, 2003; here's to feelin' good all the time

Potato Salad posted:

We need to control how minorities and disabled communities communicate? We need to proceed with this bill without any substance from the entire intelligencia of the United States of America being able to actually cite average that this is a that?

Did you also believe there were WMDs in Iraq?

Did you miss the foreign power part of this? No, the entire point of what I was saying is that we should prevent the method by which marginalized communities are communicating from being controlled.

# ¿ Mar 13, 2024 20:14

Riptor: Apr 13, 2003; here's to feelin' good all the time

Potato Salad posted:

This has crossed the Godwin Line at this point; bringing hands about foreign persons and foreign powers was literally the Nazi playbook.

I mean, a hearty gently caress you, my man. Would you have any issue with foreign governments bankrolling a political candidate?

And to be clear, I am not talking about foreign persons. I am talking about a national government.

# ¿ Mar 13, 2024 20:16

Riptor: Apr 13, 2003; here's to feelin' good all the time

koolkal posted:

This bill clearly conflates foreign persons with a national government though.

That's fair enough. I think that is wrong and should be rectified

# ¿ Mar 13, 2024 20:19

Riptor: Apr 13, 2003; here's to feelin' good all the time

Mendrian posted:

To play devil's advocate with, I guess, myself, that's kind of moot. You can launder a government through a person, especially in China.

Yeah, I think the way to address this should have more to do with where the data is stored and how easily accessible it is to the Chinese government, irrespective of what sort of person or entity is nominally the owner of that data

Madkal posted:

I don't know much about social media but is there a reason minorities and those in the disabled community cannot use any other social media platform?

The answer seems to be "well because we really like this one"

# ¿ Mar 13, 2024 20:21

Riptor: Apr 13, 2003; here's to feelin' good all the time

Potato Salad posted:

I mean poo poo, man, how many years ago did Paul Manafort get nailed for acting as a domestic liaison for foreign money, some of which wormed its way into the Trump campaign?

Do you think that the jury arrived at that decision because of a lack of evidence, or because there was a strong body of evidence?

You're talking yourself in circles here. The problem is that the manner by which TikTok is set up means that there effectively cannot be evidence. The way to remedy that is to, you know, go through this divestiture process outlined in the bill and have TikTok's data stored in the US so that if there is reason to believe that something awry is going on, it can be adequately investigated.

# ¿ Mar 13, 2024 20:24

Riptor: Apr 13, 2003; here's to feelin' good all the time

Potato Salad posted:

I suppose I intrinsically see this as a suppression tactic against the overwhelming support TikTok content creators post for things like Starbucks unions spreading, the occasional victory for healthcare access in a purple state, this slow expansion of things like free school lunches in a couple of states, etc. Others insist that it is genuinely about a sober discussion about domestic versus foreign media ownership, despite the conversations in Congress recently suggesting very strongly that that is not the case.

I do not know how to come to common ground with somebody who cannot see through what I believe is a fig leaf of national security necessity draped over what is yet another opportunity to bash a community of leftward thinking people, queer people, disabled people etc that got too popular for the comfort of conservative and even some centrists.

Despite you calling me a Nazi I'm extremely sympathetic to what you're saying here. These spaces must exist, I completely agree. But I don't think that the notion that this specific gathering place for the community you're describing is potentially a very fraught and easily influenced one can be discounted, and I think China's specific record lends a lot of credence to the national security concerns. If TikTok was owned by a company based in Turkey, Japan, Greece, Brazil, or most other countries, I'd be right with you in rolling my eyes. But I just don't think it's prudent to ignore the warning signs here and I think pushing for increased accountability is the right move

# ¿ Mar 13, 2024 20:37

Riptor: Apr 13, 2003; here's to feelin' good all the time

mawarannahr posted:

I think Turkey is a pretty bad example
Twitter to establish legal entity in Turkey, comply with law

fair enough

# ¿ Mar 13, 2024 20:50

Riptor: Apr 13, 2003; here's to feelin' good all the time

Mendrian posted:

they are also not a pipeline for Chinese propaganda because if it was we'd already see that happening.

This seems wildly naive

# ¿ Mar 13, 2024 21:18

Riptor: Apr 13, 2003; here's to feelin' good all the time

Mendrian posted:

Possibly, but I think it's a bit alarmist to pass legislation on an unfalsifiable claim. "TikTok is brainwashing us so subtly we can't even tell it is happening" is, you know, a position, but I would again argue this level of speed and motivation would make a lot more sense if they were targeting media tools that already have a known track record.

I mean how do you think propaganda works, generally?

# ¿ Mar 13, 2024 21:29

Riptor: Apr 13, 2003; here's to feelin' good all the time

Main Paineframe posted:

since you backhandedly accused someone of being a fascist a couple of pages back.

A Nazi too!

# ¿ Mar 13, 2024 23:09

Riptor: Apr 13, 2003; here's to feelin' good all the time

DarkHorse posted:

The places I looked it up called it "partially open" whatever that means

I believe that means if you're registered for a party, you can only vote in that party's primary but if you're unenrolled you get to choose one

# ¿ Mar 22, 2024 00:17

Riptor: Apr 13, 2003; here's to feelin' good all the time

Dopilsya posted:

So according to you, 75 million of your countrymen have no motivation, thought, or creed beyond "racism" that could possibly be appealed to. Well I suppose that's a good demonstration of why you can't win an election.

what part of American history do you think disproves this

# ¿ Apr 8, 2024 01:22

Riptor: Apr 13, 2003; here's to feelin' good all the time

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

Boston had barely any rise in violent crime during the pandemic and now they are actually at a near historical low for murders. Is Boston doing something right with criminal justice/policing that the rest of the country is missing? Or is this a freak one-off occurrence?

there was some really good coverage of this in 2016 from, of all places, Comedy Central in "Jeff Ross Roasts Cops"

It's genuinely worth a watch

# ¿ Apr 15, 2024 17:11

Riptor: Apr 13, 2003; here's to feelin' good all the time

Halloween Jack posted:

So people should ignore their concerns over the actual genocide, happening right now, because of what you predict will happen in the future?

tell me what the last presidential election was that wasn't based off predicting what will happen in the future

# ¿ Apr 17, 2024 17:08

Riptor: Apr 13, 2003; here's to feelin' good all the time

Halloween Jack posted:

I have no interest in fanfiction about Donald the Dove, just as I don't care for fanfiction about how he's going to declare himself the Emperor Fuhrer.

Did you have a bridge game or something on Jan 6, 2021?

# ¿ Apr 17, 2024 20:11

Riptor: Apr 13, 2003; here's to feelin' good all the time

Halloween Jack posted:

(Trump word salad)

What uh.... what point are you making here

# ¿ Apr 17, 2024 20:38

Riptor: Apr 13, 2003; here's to feelin' good all the time

Halloween Jack posted:

What point were you making in the first place when you referenced January 6, 2021? To be clear, I've never played bridge.

That Trump was complicit in knowingly and maliciously undermining the democratic process and that the notion that he might do so again and/or repeatedly to keep him and his cronies in power is not "fanfiction", to use your term, but a very real concern that should not be ignored or minimized

Again, what point were you making by quoting the gibberish that spilled out of his gob once he knew his putsch had failed?

# ¿ Apr 17, 2024 20:48

Riptor: Apr 13, 2003; here's to feelin' good all the time

Halloween Jack posted:

We weren�t talking about Trump �undermining the democratic process� nor overturning the election results. If you want me to answer a straightforward question, then by all means, ask one instead of dicking around.

You invoked the term "Emperor Fuhrer", and mocked the notion that he might declare himself such. You are aware of how Hitler came to, and then consolidated power, yes?

You're the one dicking around, and you still haven't explained what point you were trying to make by quoting Trump on Jan 6th. Without any additional explanation, the obvious conclusion to come to is that you're simply someone who takes Trump at his word, which.... yikes

Riptor fucked around with this message at 21:21 on Apr 17, 2024

# ¿ Apr 17, 2024 20:59

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# ¿ May 22, 2024 18:24

Riptor: Apr 13, 2003; here's to feelin' good all the time

Also what the gently caress is with the scare quotes

# ¿ Apr 17, 2024 21:01

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > USCE 2024: Macklemore Is The New Michael Moore

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