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So I fully expect that Re3 is going to be the game with the most radical changes despite the ending of this game having a valid interpretation of Everything being back on track And the reason I say this is because I genuinely feel most of Disc 2 isn't very good video gaming. Now the Glacier Inn+Northern Crater stuff, almost completely untouched, I feel, but the Huge Materia stuff feels... like the definition of filler? "Look we're just passing time on a main quest you don't even have to succeed at until we can put Cloud back together again and get back to the Northern Crater." I don't think they'll just drop the Huge Materia and like obviously they've shown, quite well, how they can take every minor element from FF7 and make it feel amazing, just for the whole progression/status, I feel like Re3 is where the most is going to 'be different'
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Mar 3, 2024 13:41
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I maintain my stance on Jenova Theory. Jenova Theory is that cells of Jenova will attract one another and be drawn together. So if that works across space why not across time?
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Mar 4, 2024 03:58
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I mean I think it's deliberately framed in such a way to leave the door open for many interpretations. But it's definitely setting up that Cloud's sense of reality has completely shattered compared to the rest of the party. The only think I'm massively happy about is that They didn't do what so many dumbasses were saying they'd do, where Aerith would 'Sacrifice herself because she has to die. Because that was always the dumbest loving possible reading about that entire set of events.
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Mar 4, 2024 15:52
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Two times during the Gold Saucer I feel the game was directly looking at the player. The first being when Sephiroth himself shows up and tells Cloud to just enjoy the Saucer (For now) and the other was the Cait Sith fortune "Things are looking up so throw caution to the wind. Put your trust in others and a last-minute twist may pleasantly surprise you."
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Mar 6, 2024 03:29
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Gologle posted:https://www.rpgsite.net/feature/15561-explaining-analysing-what-happens-in-final-fantasy-vii-rebirth-ending It's both. The answer is both. Cloud has fully lost his marbles, and things are not in fact just "Been resolved to a point where we're right on track we'll never bring this stuff up again." In fact, Cloud seeing things from other worlds he cannot comprehend is probably going to make his brain snapping like a twig be even more impactful. Aside: Notice how when Biggs talks to Zack he mentions everyone knowing Cloud's a badass even though he puts on airs, and Zack's like "Are we talking about the same Cloud?" Because that also asks the question "So uh... in Zack's Timeline was Cloud never there? Or did Biggs cross over timelines? The start of the game has them mention an Avalanche Ex-Soldier with a Buster Sword but that's not possible if Cloud wasn't in Midgar. And they aren't referring to Zack. I suspect that Cloud's "Being Put Back Together" is going to be a little more involved than just working out the kinks that we already know exist. I would assume that would in fact be the time of straightening out a twisted, parallel timeline. Now, if you want crazy theories. We see multiple stamps and multiple timelines. 1 and 2 are unaccounted for. Timeline 3 is the Spitz Timeline. the Timeline where Cloud and An Aerith go on a date, she gives him the full white materia and pushes him through right as she's about to be killed and the world is about to end. Timeline 4 is the Terrier Timeline, the Timeline where Zack lives. Which we believe to be the results of the actions taken in the Beagle Timeline, Timeline 5. But what if that's not the case? What if Terrier doesn't excist because of Beagle, what if Beagle exists because of Terrier? We've seen 6 stamps, with Pug Stamp being the 6th... so what will Stamp 7 be? Will that be the actual final timeline? Will it be signified by Cloud being put back together again? Man... I sure didn't think I'd need a fuckin' Marathon Infinity style chart to track what's happening. Onmi fucked around with this message at 12:22 on Mar 11, 2024 |
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Mar 11, 2024 11:41
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Harrow posted:I definitely think there's a lot more to come with the alternate reality stuff, but I think that article's reaching a bit. For one, I'm not sure where the author got the idea that if Red XIII wasn't in the Singularity with the rest of the group at the end of Remake, he wouldn't still be with them now. We meet a lot of people from our main reality who weren't in the Singularity again. Hell, Yuffie was in Midgar at the time and wasn't in the Singularity and she's still part of this story and in the same universe. The only thing that breaks the "Well Cloud's just crazy" is the fact that he see's the crack in the sky that people in the Terrier Timeline are seeing. Aerith is easily explained as "Ah Cloud's completely lost the plot and refuses to accept she's died." But why would he see something others have seen? EDIT: I also think it's worth considering something meta about Cloud breaking and then being put back together in the original. Cloud breaks because he believes everything he ever thought was a lie. Part of the support for that break is that to Tifa, yes, everything Cloud said has been a lie, he was never in Nibelheim. But the reality is while he wasn't Zack he was in Nibelheim, and he did save Tifa and he did defeat Sephiroth. Tifa was also wrong, and the truth lay somewhere else. My prediction is that Cloud will break over not just "You were never in Nibelheim" but "Cloud, Aerith died." And just like the original, reconciliation isn't coming to realize "Yup I was never there and in fact, I was just crazy." But locating the truth amidst the discrepancies. Onmi fucked around with this message at 14:39 on Mar 11, 2024 |
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Mar 11, 2024 14:29
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Harrow posted:Yeah, that's another thing. I guess it could be multiple things at the same time. Cloud's mind broke, and he's seeing metaphysical phenomena others aren't, and he's seeing Aerith's spirit (who Red XIII also senses). I think the Jenova cells are also why in Remake he was seeing flashes of things that haven't yet happened. Aerith had foreknowledge of the future because of the White Materia, Materia is the knowledge of the planet crystalized and given form. Jenova is someone kept outside of the Lifestream, unable to die. But it is also a hive mind, hence Jenova Theory, that the cells will inevitably return to one whole. Cloud was seeing things that Jenova had memory of. Also, this Ultimania is going to go so hard. And I fully expect Re3 to come out 2027 for the 30th. Onmi fucked around with this message at 14:45 on Mar 11, 2024 |
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Mar 11, 2024 14:42
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As a reminder: There is still one element that has yet to be acknowledge that is terrifying in its existence The Remake Project was intended to come out as part of the compilation. The Compilation's conclusion was Genesis showing up in the DoC credits to pick up White the White's body and go "We have work to do." Now that doesn't mean it's going to come up just... interesting.
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Mar 12, 2024 12:16
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Harrow posted:
Coward  Personally having to figure out a Marathon Infinity Style chart excites me to no end.
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Mar 12, 2024 18:54
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So if the Power of Seven winds up becoming an actual factor. Let's look at these timelines again Timeline 1 (Or Zero): Original FF7->DoC. Aerith dies, Geostigma, Sephiroth swears to never be a memory. Timeline 2 (Stamp 2 Stars?): Currently unknown, presumably the first time Sephiroth went back to gently caress with things. Joke answer: Smash Brothers timeline. Timeline 3 (Stamp 3 Stars): A Timeline in which everyone is dead, Cloud and Aerith were in a coma, and Sephiroth is unopposed. Cloud is given the White Materia from this timeline to give to Aerith. It's destroyed shortly after by the W'rkncacnter. Timeline 4 (Stamp 4 Stars AKA Zack Timeline.): Rather than being as a result of the Beagle (Stamp 5 Stars) it's actually a result of Stamp 3 Stars. Zack survives the battle at Midgar's planes. Avalanche is killed excluding Aerith. Biggs is also alive in this timeline, but the Biggs here does not appear to be 4 Stars Biggs, since he mentions "Everyone knows Cloud is a badass, even if he's putting on airs." Biggs shouldn't know who Cloud is since Zack returned with Cloud. Timeline 5 (Stamp 5 Stars AKA The RE Timeline): Our current timeline, masquerading as Timeline 2. All things return to here, and here is the latest battle of fate. Going to hell in a handbasket. Timeline 6 (Stamp 6 Stars): Branches of Stamp 4 Stars are dependent on what Zack did during the events of Rebirth. used to show the way the timeline splits at the well of possibilities. Timeline 7 (Ay Mak Sicur): Currently unknown, presumably the apotheosis of timelines, where all things will converge. There is no proof of this beyond the fact it would be 7 timelines and it's final fantasy 7 and 7 is a brain poison. Unknown timeline: Zack chooses to do nothing in timeline 4 and we see a Shiba Stamp, it has no stars. Technically this ruins 7 Timelines, unless timeline 1 is Zero because Zero isn't a number. Could also be a "Junk" timeline. Is Aerith Alive: Yes. Is Aerith Dead: Also, yes. Will Aerith return in Part 3: My money is on yes, and I don't just think as a Lifestream entity. The thing the Remake trilogy so far has knocked out of the park is recontextualizing existing spoilers in new ways that ask the same question and invoke the same emotion without literally being the same question: The main plot the third game will be dealing with is Cloud's fractured psyche. So how does Cloud's psyche fracture? With 'proof' that he was never at Midgar and had been masquerading as Zack the entire time. But everyone knows that, and hell Cloud is more aware of Zack than he was before. So what would cause Cloud to shatter in the same way? "Cloud, Aerith has been dead since the City of the Ancients." It carries the same weight of Cloud believing whole heartedly in something that everyone else thinks is a lie, with just enough kernal of reality to it to be undeniable. HOWEVER The key part of Cloud's mental reconstruction is everyone else is wrong, too. Tifa doesn't think Cloud was at Nibelheim at all. Sephiroth claims that Cloud was always just one of his clones. Both of these things are key to Cloud shattering and both of them aren't true. He was at Nibelheim and he wasn't a Sephiroth clone. It's not that Cloud wasn't living a lie it's that the truth wasn't something that could be confronted or confirmed by any one person. Part 3 will use Aerith's status as that answer, and while the answer could be "Oh she is totally dead" or "She's totally alive." I am not so sure where it will fall. Only that the mystery uncovered in Cloud's memories will not be "So what did happen at Nibelheim" but also "What happened at the City of the Ancients?"
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Mar 13, 2024 14:28
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Keep in mind, and I always have to bring this up that Cloud is not acting like Zack. Not the way people always pin on him. Cloud's fighting style, his movements etc. Are very different from Zack's and never is this more clear than Rebirth itself. Whenever Zack is playable, he's so effortless in everything he does, he's very agile, bouncing around, mixing in punches and kicks. And in cutscenes we see him like... pick up a piece of rubble from the bridge and effortlessly toss it and destroy a chopper. There's a reason in Remake when Cloud tells Reno he's a First Class soldier that Reno immediately calls bullshit. Cloud's strong, and he's gaining strength at an incredible rate, but he is not a First Class Soldier. Cloud is acting as a triple hybrid of Zack, himself, and Hero Sephiroth. Zack is not a "Merc who'll do anything for cash, hmph, harumph." we know this because again, the entire opening of Rebirth that puts Cloud in Zack's spot, we see just how far Cloud is from Zack attitude-wise. He carries himself with a level of 'professionalism' and that comes from his positive memories of Sephiroth. The Hero, the guy who was always composed and level headed. The rest comes from cloud himself, a lot of his insecurities binding the two to form this bound mess that's keeping him together. The true Cloud's shyness and his sweetheart nature filtered through his anxiety and insecurities.
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Mar 15, 2024 05:24
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Harrow posted:Something I'm thinking about today regarding the ending and the common "Cloud is seeing an alternate reality nobody he created that nobody else can see" interpretation: Because "Cloud's just crazy" is something we already know to be true. So going "Cloud Aerith died and actually you're goo goo gaa gaa crazy" at the northern crater kind of fucks with the point of Cloud being crazy. It makes Sephiroth right. I repeat again, that Cloud's reconstruction only works because he really was at Nibelheim and the truth lay beyond what everyone perceived. Making it so "Nah actually Cloud's just crazy here." Kinda makes him fundamentally broken, how do you pick up the pieces from there "Oh yeah sucks you just were insane. Kinda weird how your insanity manifested in seeing a shattered sky that only people in other timelines could see btw." the issue I take with "Oh he's just crazy" is it's boring as poo poo. Nothing can be done with it, nothing is added or can blossom from it. It's the cheap out answer.
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Mar 15, 2024 17:05
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Fun, not serious theory. Hollow was from Cloud, Promises to Keep was from Aerith. Square's said the three "view points" of FF7 are Cloud, Aerith and Sephiroth. Does that mean that Re3's song us going to be from Sephiroth's point of view?
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Mar 16, 2024 04:09
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https://twitter.com/Sleepezi_DMs/status/1769439964062789839 This is something to be following if you want to dive deep into FF7 Expanded lore and see a lorehead just... be excited and devour the stuff you may not care about.
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Mar 18, 2024 02:20
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Rufus being Sarruf is old Before Crisis Lore. Rufus is directly responsible for 1. Controlling Shinra. 2. Controlling Wutai. 3. Being the founder and leader of Avalanche. As he sits right now he's literally in charge of each major faction.
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Mar 18, 2024 02:28
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SyntheticPolygon posted:Rufus is a pathetic babyman who hates his Dad so much that he is bankrolling and militarising several organisations opposed to the company he intends to inherit all to cause trouble for his father. And it's cool. They're trying to position Rufus to where he is in AC, I.E. a guy who is trying to 'do good' even if he's quite genuinely bad at it.
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Mar 18, 2024 02:44
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Y'all just need a little faith. Maybe you can find it in a converted church in Venice, Italy.
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Mar 19, 2024 15:37
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I wonder if the final Stamp will be a Wolf, since Cloud is associated with Wolves in the compilation, and in general I guess. OH MAN THAT WOULD BE SO DUMBRAD IF THE FINAL STAMP WAS THE FENRIR EMBLEM CLOUD HAS IN AC. THAT ALSO WORKS FOR WHAT THE CLEAR MATERIA COULD FILL IN TO BEING.
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Mar 20, 2024 04:10
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Rich Uncle Chet posted:I really appreciated and thought it was real sweet that when Tifa got knocked into the Lifestream void, Aeirth was one of the visions she saw. They mentioned one of the key points they wanted to hit with Rebirth was showing Tifa and Aerith's friendship, I think they knocked it out of the park.
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Mar 20, 2024 06:20
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they want shady posted:No way to deal with Meteor if Aerith ain't dead. That is wrong and misses the point of her death.
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Mar 25, 2024 04:51
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they want shady posted:Just to get that out of the way, I can see how Aerith's death isn,t neccesarily required to get to the same plot point. What matters Is that someone rouses the lifestream to stop Meteor. And Aerith doesn't really have to be dead to do that. What's really important about her death Is how shocking It is. Basically, because you're viewing it in reverse. Aerith dying doesn't mean she saves the planet. Aerith is able to save the planet despite dying. There's an important point in FF7 where the party speculates "Hey do you think maybe Aerith came knowing she was going to die?" And the response is "No. She came expecting to live." Basically, even if she managed to save the world, her death was still meaningless. It was still a tragedy. The beauty of her death is that there's no meaning to be found. In the end, even with the silver lining, it leave you feeling Hollow.
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Mar 25, 2024 07:50
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Joke answer: They bring in Kid sephiroth from Ever Crisis to fight Insane Sephiroth.
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Mar 25, 2024 11:09
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I love how Sephiroth is so mad at Omni-Aerith, just like "You cheating bitch, I can't just go to another world and grab the Black Materia and bring it back here. You can't just pass things through timelines!" So I think we have 3-4 states of Aerith in FFVII-3 1. Aerith exists only in other-world sections Likelihood - Very, it's a very easy way to continue FFVII without having her around while making it clear that she's still there. 2. Aerith rejoins the party post Cloud reconstructing his brain. Likelihood - Unlikely. Even though I'm of the opinion the reconstructing of his brain WILL involve figuring out the fate of Aerith, I don't think she's coming back to the main party until 3. Aerith will be involved in the final battle vs Sephrioth in the end game Likelihood - Almost absolutely. That is when the fuckery is all going down, it's gonna happen then 4. Aerith is not playable and outside of her original FF7 stuff is not present Likelihood - Not. This isn't happening, I think if you think this you're crazy.
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Mar 26, 2024 11:44
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kliras posted:i think the worse part of all of this is that i wouldn't be surprised if nomura et al just retroactively change what the ending of this game was supposed to mean, doesn't exactly feel like it's all planned out in any sensible way from start to finish Do you know why this argument is stupid? I mean ignoring the premise of it? It requires that the people in charge and involved understand everything perfectly are able to hit great moment after great moment and craft these amazing story beats and great relationships to make people care and then "Ah but they just sorta threw the ending together no plan." It requires the belief of meticulous planning right until the last second. That's stupid. Also like... god I love having this now. https://twitter.com/aitaikimochi/status/1755117418761146618
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Mar 26, 2024 15:57
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So I'm fully in the camp of: Aerith will be dead and gone and maybe not seen until Cloud puts his brain back together. In the vein of "We can't have the Jaws Sephiroth in Remake because everyone knows who he is" and "We can't play Aerith's death straight because everyone knows it." You can't have Cloud be put back together and it's just like the original. Cloud's initial disassociation was his mind effectively scrambling to come up with something that held this bag of bones, mako poisoning and jenova cells all in one coherent position. Note that Cloud, right before he breaks is convinced nothing Sephiroth shows him will break him, because it's just a lie that's not what pushes him over the edge, it's Tifa effectively confirming that Sephiroth is correct and not lying. Cloud breaks because even though he can justify the contradictions, he cannot justify Tifa siding with them. Reassembling Cloud involves properly exploring his relationship with Tifa (Why was the promise so valuable to Cloud) but also, uncovering the truth that Cloud was at Nibelheim 5 years ago, he did kill Sephiroth, he did fulfill his promise. But we already know that. Meaning it's not actually a twist for the player and it's not new information. To present it as is, is to justclap at the well-sculpted Thing That Exists and, which the Re-Trilogy so far has strayed away from doing. So what information does the party have that the player is unsure of which Tifa and Sephiroth would have, that would break Cloud? That Aerith is dead and he didn't save her. And what information would help put his brain right again? The truth of what happened at the City of the Ancients. Does this involve Aerith "Coming back to life/Rejoining the party" I don't think so, no. I think at this point Aerith is the Omniaerith, (Not to be confused with the Onmi-Aerith which isn't real and cannot hurt you), She's the same as the Sephiroth who's loving with time and space. She's already proven she can displace things from one timeline to another by giving Cloud the White Materia, which even Sephiroth called out as being utter bullshit. But it will I believe tie into what is going on with the Magnus Materia. Again the whole Magnus Materia plotline is very... odd, in the original FF7, it just sorta is waffling about until we go back to the Northern Crater. Harrow posted:One thing's for sure: these days, I like Final Fantasy better with Nomura than without him I genuinely think Tetsuya Nomura is one of the best creative minds in the industry, I think he grasps emotional storytelling on an exceptional level, I think people memeing about the guy who's into fashion having his designs reflect fashion trends into "Belts and Zippers" (Which really is just Plaid now) was brought on by a lot of 2000's "Shame of liking thing."
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Mar 26, 2024 16:12
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kliras posted:aren't we on record with advent children and ever crisis being not just canon but also "integrated" components of the remake? i don't know what the implications of this will be, especially as someone who never played ever crisis, but sounds like it's at least ff7++, even though i'm not sure how much advent children expanded the lore Well the Sephiroth we're dealing with is post-Advent Children Sephiroth.
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Mar 26, 2024 17:36
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Rosalind posted:I would love if game 3 gaslights everyone by just starting with Aerith in the party and no explanation of why she's there or any acknowledgement at all that she shouldn't be. Aerith is in the party but no one interacts with her but Cloud and everyone acts as if she's gone. It's like if you used a cheat device to add her to your party in original FF7.
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Mar 26, 2024 19:43
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So the idea with Sephiroth/Jenova is that Sephiroth has subsumed the Jenova entity/mind with his own. He made it belong to him rather than the other way around. So while we met the Jenovaclones, Sephiroth is the one in control of them.Pollyanna posted:Actually, is he? Or is that just an assumption because of planetary foreknowledge etc.? One of the Sephiroth's in Remake drops a line that AC Sephiroth says in Lifestream Black, the lore goes loving deep in regards to "Obscure short stories you probably don't exist but are absolutely relevent."
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Mar 27, 2024 02:46
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Pollyanna posted:This depends entirely on whatever the gently caress is even going on. If this was being played straight and it was clear that the same events of the OG played out and now Cloud’s gone so far off the deep end that he’s hallucinating Aerith when she isn’t actually there, that’s genuinely spooky and hosed up. That would actually be really loving cool and an interesting expansion on the mindfuckery Cloud goes through up until North Crater. Consider the following: That's not Aerith in the ending. That's Jenova.
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Mar 28, 2024 16:14
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Harrow posted:I don't at all buy the "Jenova impersonating Aerith" theory. Why would she look so sad when she turns away from Cloud if he can't even see her face? Why would she say a sad goodbye to the departing plane with nobody there to hear her if she was just Jenova impersonating Aerith to manipulate Cloud? Oh I don't personally believe it. I do think it's a fun theory though.
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Mar 29, 2024 05:10
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I mean the ultimate payoff is what occurs in the Northern Crater with the Black Materia in the original. But now since Cloud HAS the Black Materia... I mean I do think Jenova using Aerith's visage to gently caress with Cloud in Game 3 would be sick as gently caress. Even if she wasn't at the end of Rebirth (Which to be clear I don't think she was.)
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Apr 4, 2024 10:04
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Don't they have Vincent say (or imply) that he could have dealt with Sephiroth at any time and chose not to, and that's part of what's fueling him to tag along? That so much death and destruction was preventable and he just didn't do anything about it because he was trapped in his own self loathing.
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Apr 14, 2024 16:59
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So they've mentioned that two things studied for the plot are the Buddhist Yogachara and Jung's Collective Unconciousness. But if we're on Buddhism, perhaps an answer for what's going on is the Samsara, the cycle of death and rebirth... oh hey. So: This as of Dirge of Cerberus, is how we know the Lifestream works. Life is born from the planet, dies returning to the planet, is reborn again and again until the world's end, where Chaos takes in the Lifestream and leaves to seed another planet, beginning the cycle once more. Complication: Jenova, and by extension, Sephiroth, cannot enter the cycle of Death and Rebirth, they are not "Of" the planet, same as the Gi. So, OG FF7 plays out, life, death, Chaos, the Cycle of Rebirth plays out. Cycle 2 begins, except, Sephiroth is still around because he can't enter the Lifestream, which also means that as a part of Jenova, Sephiroth shares his memories with all other parts of Jenova. So what if Sephiroth isn't from the future... he's from the past... he just came the long way around.
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Apr 19, 2024 13:36
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ImpAtom posted:It's not entirely clear since Lucretia and Sephiroth are a different case, but Jenova Taint being a problem is a thing. It's the cause of Geostigma in Advent Children and the actual Geostigma is caused by the bad interaction between lifestream and Jenova. Even once it is seemingly cured at the end, it's pointed out that DEEPGROUND was specifically avoiding people who had contracted Geostigma because they thought that the planet would only accept 'untainted' people for its emergency plan. Also in Lifestream Black, we get this stuff quote:The man could sense the Lifestream trying to erode his spirit– the memories of his former experiences, thoughts and emotions. If he allowed himself be taken into the current, the being he once was would soon disseminate and disappear amongst the spirit energy cycling around the planet. The man thought this unacceptable. The planet was to be his to rule, and to become a part of that system would be nothing short of defeat. This also explains why Sephiroth is always 'born' to the planet, he surrendered his childhood to the Lifestream, which in turn means he'll always be reborn, and he exists as an infection. Also yeah this was written for Advent Children but I think it's still quite applicable and important to Rebirth.
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Apr 22, 2024 00:56
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| # ¿ May 12, 2024 07:41 |
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Also, it's not quite clear, but Sephiroth was about to Win 'here'. His goal, the amassment of great power through the unification of disparate possibilities was entirely within his grasp, his big speech about making you feel anger/despair and how powerful those emotions were? The full LBs for everyone but Cloud? The reason he failed was that Cloud didn't succumb to those emotions and have a full LB gauge. Cloud (Due to his belief/reality of having saved aerith) kept Sephiroth from being able to absorb the power he needed. Him leaving in the final battle was an admission his plans had utterly failed at this point. He could no longer route a path to victory, and he wasn't going to get any kills.
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Apr 22, 2024 16:05
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