|
Dikkfor posted:Having a guy who's job is to run around the place carrying your proclamations on a big stick must be sick as hell. Please consider all my posts delivered by a stick guy in spirit.
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2024 07:59
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 3, 2024 08:02 |
|
|
Does even Yobu knows who is he loyal to and who to betray anymore?
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2024 09:37
|
|
|
Yabu is loyal to Yabu.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2024 09:43
|
|
|
Nice Tuckpointing! posted:Yabu is loyal to Yabu. *2 minutes later* Yabu has betrayed Yabu
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2024 09:59
|
|
|
No simple answer to this question I imagine, but what book should I read if I want to read about the history of Ieyasu's life and rise to power? Most of what I know about him comes from video games but this show has inspired me to read a little more deeply on this period in history.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2024 10:27
|
|
|
book spoilers about next week's episode i don't remember yabu being involved in the ninja attack at all, nor the scene on the beach where he smacks blackthorne around... so they're 100% setting up blackthorne finding out about the betrayal and getting revenge on him, right? possibly at sekigahara, which the advertising has shown we're going to see a little bit of?
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2024 10:54
|
|
|
Eau de MacGowan posted:book spoilers about next week's episode I hope not, the scene in the 80s series where Yabu gives Blackthorne his sword and tells him this is how a true samurai dies, while cussing everyone else out before he guts himself is one of my favourites. If anything, with Hiromatsu dead in this version, I'd expect Blackthorne to take his place as Yabu's second.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2024 12:58
|
|
|
Sentinel Red posted:I hope not, the scene in the 80s series where Yabu gives Blackthorne his sword and tells him this is how a true samurai dies, while cussing everyone else out before he guts himself is one of my favourites. The trailer shows Toranaga hefting his katana in a very second-y way, although I wondered if that was going to be Blackthorne trying to commit seppuku as the climax of his character arc and then getting forgiven. With only an hour to fit in so much storytelling, it'll be interesting if they're going to use Ishido's fate from the novel. It might come across as a bit deranged on Toranaga's part to have Yabushige being ordered to die with honour for his many acts of betrayal followed immediately by "and as for you, who largely attempted to thwart me via the rule of law, get in the hole and starve to death"
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2024 13:24
|
|
|
Nice Tuckpointing! posted:Yabu is loyal to Yabu. stev posted:*2 minutes later* I was gonna say I have bad news for Yabushige, his greatest enemy in the story... is Yabushige.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2024 16:45
|
|
|
Vampire Panties posted:they probably all ran off once they saw they killed mariko. no point in hanging out when the alarm has been sounded and the person they were trying to capture alive is very dead Very "something broke, everybody scram before mom finds out."
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2024 17:16
|
|
|
Hirsute posted:On a lighter note - the costumes are indeed amazing but I've found myself mostly wondering what it feels like (on a tactile, cloth-on-skin sense) to wear top-quality silk like that. Must feel pretty awesome! book has some whole bits in how the silk trade is vital to the comfort of everyone in Japan with any money at all
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2024 02:19
|
|
|
Cat Machine posted:No simple answer to this question I imagine, but what book should I read if I want to read about the history of Ieyasu's life and rise to power? Most of what I know about him comes from video games but this show has inspired me to read a little more deeply on this period in history. As mentioned earlier, Stephen Turnbull is one of the best English language sources available for the period. He did write a biography of Ieyasu, though it's fairly short and pretty concise; I'm not sure there's many readily available sources in English that would be more thorough, though. grobbo posted:The trailer shows Toranaga hefting his katana in a very second-y way, although I wondered if that was going to be Blackthorne trying to commit seppuku as the climax of his character arc and then getting forgiven. I think Ishido's death in the novel had more to do with the people cutting into his neck with a bamboo saw over the course of days than starvation.
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2024 02:22
|
|
|
Cat Machine posted:No simple answer to this question I imagine, but what book should I read if I want to read about the history of Ieyasu's life and rise to power? Most of what I know about him comes from video games but this show has inspired me to read a little more deeply on this period in history. Here is another recommendo. I think historical rigor wise this book is pretty questionable since it was written by some honkey in the 1930s, but it's still interesting and is, I understand, one of the primary sources clavell used so it's fun to see the obvious influence on shogun
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2024 02:41
|
|
|
Eau de MacGowan posted:book spoilers about next week's episode ALso book spoilers The scene on the beach wasn't in the book, but Yabu 100% made a deal with Ishido to open the side gate and let the ninjas in. This turns out to not be a brilliant political move
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2024 03:00
|
|
|
blue squares posted:Why the hell was this episode called "Crimson Sky"? What a bait and switch. because it's Toranaga's actual assault on Ishido-occupied Osaka 
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2024 05:32
|
|
|
Goatse James Bond posted:because it's Toranaga's actual assault on Ishido-occupied Osaka Yeah, the real Crimson Sky was Toranaga basically manipulating Ishido into basically Crimson Sky'ing himself. With Mariko dead in a such a public and violent and easily tracable back to him fashion, Ishido is about have a terrible, horrible, no good, very bad "what little is left of the rest of his life".
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2024 06:23
|
|
|
I hate the move for how lovely it makes the character, but some credit to Ishido for coming up with a path that doesn't have him automatically lose in some way and at least had a chance for success. I guess I don't see how either of his options was an immediate unrecoverable loss though, so it seems like he just went right to the wild plan. Then again the whole story of this show is basically how the regents are all scheming assholes to varying degrees and only Toranaga wants the rightful heir to grow up and actually ascend to power. Toranaga's rear end in a top hat schemery is just in the pursuit of actually making that ascension happen. nine-gear crow posted:Yeah, the real Crimson Sky was Toranaga basically manipulating Ishido into basically Crimson Sky'ing himself. With Mariko dead in a such a public and violent and easily tracable back to him fashion, Ishido is about have a terrible, horrible, no good, very bad "what little is left of the rest of his life". While it's definitely violent, I wouldn't call it particularly public and definitely way less public then announcing "I'm killing myself because of this injustice everyone!" and then following through on that. We know from watching any TV ever that the ninjas aren't going to bust through there, kill everyone except Yabu, and let him help them craft whatever narrative they want, but if that were to happen the shitshow would seem pretty salvageable to me. CapnAndy posted:Because this show is so meticulously researched and executed, I love finding anachronisms, because they're so goddamn rare. I think there were two this time: the shinobi were wearing stereotypical ninja gear, which I'm pretty sure is not how shinobi actually dressed; that outfit comes from what stagehands wore during kabuki; you were supposed to politely ignore the masked men in black moving the scenery around, which is why it would be very surprising if one of them suddenly drew a blade and attacked a character. I can get behind the outfits probably not being 100% historically accurate to what the equivalent of a standard shinobi or ninja outfit would be at the time, but no matter what historical evidence you show me I'll refuse to believe that anyone whose typical job assignment would be "sneak in somewhere, kill a target or a certain number of people, and try to get out alive if you can" wouldn't cover up their head so that only their eyes were visible. And since this whole mission seems designed to leave some amount of survivors, it's not great if those survivors could potentially ID whoever did it. Basically I can envision horns on Viking helmets being bullshit, but no way do I believe ninjas/shinobi were running around bare faced unless they were deep-cover assassins like the early maid assassin was. NowonSA fucked around with this message at 12:47 on Apr 21, 2024 |
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2024 12:30
|
|
|
Ishid'oh!
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2024 12:49
|
|
|
“toranaga wants the heir to rise to power” is a funny thing to say about the guy that everyone has been warning about wanting ultimate power, is the only one who can become shogun, is based on the founder of the tokugawa shogunate, and is one of the main characters in the show “shogun”.
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2024 12:57
|
|
|
HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:“toranaga wants the heir to rise to power” is a funny thing to say about the guy that everyone has been warning about wanting ultimate power, is the only one who can become shogun, is based on the founder of the tokugawa shogunate, and is one of the main characters in the show “shogun”. My "I don't want to be shogun" kimono has a lot of people asking questions already answered by my kimono. Toranaga is charismatic and we're meant to root for him but he "doesn't want power" in the same way Caesar merely wanted to uphold his legitimate rights (to do whatever the gently caress he wanted).
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2024 19:56
|
|
|
Just one more year, I swear, says Caesar in the fifth year of his dictatorship.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2024 02:30
|
|
|
Mr. Toranaga is helping me find my
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2024 03:28
|
|
|
This show is wild. "Uh-oh, set my drink down without using a coaster, looks like it's seppuku time for me!"
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2024 03:59
|
|
|
This show is loving amazing, outstandingly well done
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2024 04:15
|
|
|
Scarabrae posted:This show is loving amazing, outstandingly well done I really really appreciate the restraint they had to not do some godawful The Last Samurai training montage and grant a white person superpowers.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2024 04:32
|
|
|
Zero VGS posted:I really really appreciate the restraint they had to not do some godawful The Last Samurai training montage and grant a white person superpowers. Also to not have Mariko suddenly turn into Mizu from Blue Eye Samurai with the naginata and just absolutely obliterate all of Ishido's guards. She held her own as realistically long as she could until she was satisfied she'd proven her point and then went "Okay, I surrender." She could have easily killed at least half of them before she went down herself, but a bloodbath wasn't in her or anyone else's interest in that situation.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2024 04:39
|
|
|
Mariko: Oh no, these samurai are too great at fighting, I have totally lost, I cannot stand against them, they outclass me in every way! Samurai: Hell yeah we rule!  Mariko: And thus I have no choice but to publicly commit suicide, thus humiliating their lord Ishido and enormously weakening his political position! Samurai: ...oh god loving dammit 
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2024 07:07
|
|
|
As someone with untreated ADD, I can't stress how much it helps to hear everything the main characters say immediately summarized a second time.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2024 09:13
|
|
|
I’m confused by people who, having watched the show up until now, thought that Mariko was going to physically fight Lady Ochiba in a one on one naginata duel or that she was going to run through all those samurai at the gate. Were these dipshits watching the same show?
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2024 12:42
|
|
|
ochiba should’ve jumped down and did a backflip and killed the samurai to then duel mariko and then she’d say “but mariko i love you” and then mariko would decapitate her and then say “and i love HONOUR, DUTY, AND MY FAMILY!!!!” then she gets hit with an arrow and blackthorne shoots the archer in the head then he jumps down and says “i know” in japanese before shooting ishido like come on seriously where’s the badass action
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2024 13:16
|
|
|
HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:ochiba should’ve jumped down and did a backflip and killed the samurai to then duel mariko and then she’d say “but mariko i love you” and then mariko would decapitate her and then say “and i love HONOUR, DUTY, AND MY FAMILY!!!!” then she gets hit with an arrow and blackthorne shoots the archer in the head then he jumps down and says “i know” in japanese before shooting ishido like come on seriously where’s the badass action This would only work with Matrix-esque bullet time and Keanu Reeves as Blackthorne.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2024 13:36
|
|
|
I know it does not matter but I'm oddly amused at the idea of blackthorn somehow being half asian despite his backstory.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2024 13:59
|
|
|
Vorenus posted:This would only work with Matrix-esque bullet time and Keanu Reeves as Blackthorne. no you don’t see the vision he misses the first ten shots because he fails to truly embrace bushido is therefore an inferior warrior, but then he composes the sickest poem and then when rodrigues the spanish pilot shouts an insult to him he says “hai” and then embraces everything to finally do it. THEN he becomes keanu reeves
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2024 14:03
|
|
|
HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:ochiba should’ve jumped down and did a backflip and killed the samurai to then duel mariko and then she’d say “but mariko i love you” and then mariko would decapitate her and then say “and i love HONOUR, DUTY, AND MY FAMILY!!!!” then she gets hit with an arrow and blackthorne shoots the archer in the head then he jumps down and says “i know” in japanese before shooting ishido like come on seriously where’s the badass action You leave me no choice. 
Mauser fucked around with this message at 14:33 on Apr 22, 2024 |
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2024 14:18
|
|
|
Buntaro does a pole vault triple flip over the wall and stops Blackthorne's laser eye blast from accidentally hitting Mariko. Buntaro winks, "You've got some moves, Barbarian," Buntaro says, "Where you from?" "Queens," Blackthorne says, "She is wise." Buntaro grunts, and says, "Brooklyn!" for some reason before igniting a giant bottle rocket strapped to his back and flies away.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2024 16:36
|
|
|
This is the best meme format
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2024 16:39
|
|
|
nine-gear crow posted:Also to not have Mariko suddenly turn into Mizu from Blue Eye Samurai with the naginata and just absolutely obliterate all of Ishido's guards. She held her own as realistically long as she could until she was satisfied she'd proven her point and then went "Okay, I surrender." She could have easily killed at least half of them before she went down herself, but a bloodbath wasn't in her or anyone else's interest in that situation.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2024 21:45
|
|
|
CapnAndy posted:Does anyone know what would the guards have done if she was skilled enough to actually start killing them? In the actual fight they're clearly fighting purely defensively and they've got "oh gently caress this woman outranks us by so much I do not want to injure her" looks on their faces. Is there a threshold where they're allowed to stab her to make her knock it off? She was skilled enough to kill one guard, and then they neutralized her.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2024 21:57
|
|
|
CapnAndy posted:Does anyone know what would the guards have done if she was skilled enough to actually start killing them? In the actual fight they're clearly fighting purely defensively and they've got "oh gently caress this woman outranks us by so much I do not want to injure her" looks on their faces. Is there a threshold where they're allowed to stab her to make her knock it off? No because hurting her at all would accomplish her goal, which is to prove without a doubt that they are being held against their will under the threat of violence. Any number of mook retainers can be hurt or killed but if you hurt someone of noble blood, it's essentially a declaration of war. The whole dynamic of the show's politics essentially boils down to "who is going to break the Taiko's peace by firing the first shot?" and despite a few close calls (Toranaga's son killing the envoy, Ishido imprisoning the other nobles), no one has formally said gently caress It There Will Be Blood and Mariko being injured by palace guards just for trying to exercise her right to leave could light that spark.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2024 22:01
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 3, 2024 08:02 |
|
|
CapnAndy posted:Does anyone know what would the guards have done if she was skilled enough to actually start killing them? In the actual fight they're clearly fighting purely defensively and they've got "oh gently caress this woman outranks us by so much I do not want to injure her" looks on their faces. Is there a threshold where they're allowed to stab her to make her knock it off? A naginata's a weapon built for stand offs where you're outnumbered as a means of evening the odds. So if everyone just lost the plot and it turned into a frenzy, then like I said Mariko probably takes at least two or three of them before the rest either overpower her or the archers lining the rooftop just pincushion her with arrows. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15T8xzKqWw4 This is the example I was using of "oh, I'm glad they DIDN'T do this", but this is probably like the move-perfect way you'd use a naginata against a crowd of enemies like Mariko was facing.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2024 22:37
|
|