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I thought the pheasant was gonna wind up as a joke about English food. 
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Mar 20, 2024 04:56
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| # ¿ May 9, 2024 11:22 |
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Taima posted:idk if this is a hot take because I dont' keep up on the community, but having read Shogun like 20 years ago, multiple times, I kinda feel like they are taking this adaptation WAY too fast and as a result, many moments feel... unearned? You're not wrong about that stuff, but it's a miniseries, so they're working within a lot of time constraints they wouldn't have if they were planning for like 4 seasons or something.
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Mar 20, 2024 17:28
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They're dropping some time passage signifiers here and there. Blackthorne and Mariko talk about how nice the weather is and she says "oh just wait till winter it loving sucks" and we're starting to see snow. They said multiple times it would take about six weeks to train the gun regiments, and that passed in about an episode and a half. Took the heir's mom loving forever to get back to Osaka though, oof must have been quite the trip
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Mar 20, 2024 19:11
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Hoping one of y'all can clear up something that's been nagging me. They make a deal with the Black Ship that includes Blackthorne staying in Osaka. Then he's just like "nah gently caress that" and takes over the ship and follows them through the blockade and races them out of the harbor. Why is anyone on his ship obeying him in that situation?
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Mar 21, 2024 05:21
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No Mods No Masters posted:I would say A. It's the same ship they took through the storm so he pretty much saved all of their lives, and B. they've been working for toranaga so they are themselves very far from safe in osaka and also kinda needed to get away Ahhhh, yeah both those make sense. Thanks!
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Mar 21, 2024 05:25
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Why were they freaking out about the swords so much? Some other stupid honor thing? Toranga would have had to kill himself, his whole family, and the entire city of Edo if didn't have swords for a few minutes?
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Mar 22, 2024 02:29
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No Mods No Masters posted:I doubt it's even super historical honestly, though in the book there is also a lot more being worried about ninja attacks. That's shogun for you Oh, I assumed a lot of that stuff is complete horseshit. The book was written by some white dude in the 1950s, right? Surely they weren't actually murdering infants over matters of honor and other such nonsense.
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Mar 22, 2024 02:43
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No Mods No Masters posted:There were several sengoku families that were pretty heavy metal destroyed root and stem including ultimately the taiko's but yeah it probably wasn't going to happen to some dingus for yelling Yeah, after some cursory Googling: it's bullshit. The imperial Chinese dynasties would kill 9 family members of traitors, but even with that level of brutality, the children were exempt.
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Mar 22, 2024 03:34
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Oh, question for the book readers. The Japanese thought cannons were super inaccurate. Did Blackthorne have better cannons than the Portuguese or were the Portuguese holding out on them?
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Mar 22, 2024 18:07
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No Mods No Masters posted:Of course it's part of the novel, but seeing how toranaga keeps everyone else off balance by favoring blackthorne is so perfectly crystalized by the visuals of omi's pissy face I loved that scene of Omi bitching about the barbarian and Yuba's just like "You know we're mega hosed at the moment, right?"
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Mar 27, 2024 04:14
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Nice Tuckpointing! posted:Yeah, she really simplified Blackthorne's comments to Toranaga about the Portuguese and the Blackship. Yes, that seemed like the most egregious mistranslation of the series so far, but I'm not clear if she did it because she's Catholic or if she knew Toranaga was not going to go for it no matter what.
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Mar 27, 2024 19:14
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I don't know if the show is going to care enough to say, so I guess I'll ask a book reader: What happened to Blackthorne's crew? Are they living in the lap of luxury in Edo or shivering a different hole in the ground or all dead?
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Mar 27, 2024 19:47
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roomtone posted:The earthquake was a non-event in the end, just something to create a fake climax for the last episode which otherwise wouldn't have had one and it feels like this one didn't either. It was pretty funny they were tallying up the devastation to civilian and military infrastructure at the beginning and then the rest of the episode is going to the completely unscathed tea house and deciding that full frontal assault on Osaka is the way to go.
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Mar 28, 2024 15:45
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Mantle posted:This is funny at a layer 1 level, but I feel it could be even more funny if I understood the second layer reference. What's this a reference to? Some insane person's insane theories :no_upscale():format(webp)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/15488698/timecubeflierimg.0.0.1441209026.gif)
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Mar 29, 2024 17:31
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Macdeo Lurjtux posted:I wish they weren't so saintly with Toranaga so we would get the reason Gin thought Torunaga was up to something. lol Some parts of the book seem really loving stupid. Mostly the sex parts.
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Apr 3, 2024 16:01
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Burns posted:My one compaint (and obviously i dont have a comparison) but it does feel like the show is stuck in this one butthole village and its environs whose name i cant even remember. Like, vary up the locations a bit more.  I thought we were on the move when Toranaga said he had to go get his half-brother's army and then they met in the woods, but then we were right back at Willow World and oh, that dude came to him I guess.
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Apr 3, 2024 16:59
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This episode set up the scenario as so doomed that it seems like it will need an unbelievable (and unsatisfying) turn of events. If there's a moment where Toranga is like "aha, you are about to execute me but now I am playing my trump card" and it flashes back to a bunch of stuff that was hidden from the viewer with the Erasmus getting refitted with the cannons and then Blackthorne sailing into Osaka's harbor and wrecking shop, I am going to be very disappointed. This miniseries has been better than that kind of Disney-style plot.
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Apr 3, 2024 17:31
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Perestroika posted:If there is a secret 4D chess Toranaga plot, my guess is that it's about pulling Saeki onto his side after all while using the regent thing as a way to get Ishido to let down his guard. Use the pretext of escorting Toranaga to Osaka to get a Saeki's forces up there without arousing suspicion, wait until the gates open, surprise decapitation attack before the garrison can mobilize, and there you are. Either the whole thing had been prearranged (which would indeed be a bit disappointing), or he does have some hook or plan to try and convince Saeki while they're on route. The level of deception DOES seem to have at least a solid foundation. All the characters who we know can't be trusted: Yabu's been playing both sides from the beginning, Blackthorne just wants to leave, Mariko wants to die, Buntaro is a loving mess, Toranaga's son is a moron, his nephew is a moron who's loyal to Yabu. It's just such a cliche plot development, though. Like Episode 9, it turns out we were watching a heist movie the whole time.
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Apr 3, 2024 19:38
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McNally posted:Who's his nephew? Because the one who's loyal to Yabu is Omi, who is Yabu's nephew. Yeah, I meant to say Yabu's nephew
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Apr 3, 2024 19:56
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Very good episode, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't disappointed by the 3d chess ending.Mauser posted:I think she basically assisted her suicide since she was gravely ill and old. Something I am confused by, that kid is heir to the title of Taiko, which is a fake-rear end title no one else has ever held. Is this kid a threat to Toranaga taking control? Is Toranaga gonna toss Ochiba and the kid off the parapets or something when this is all said and done? It doesn't seem feasible to have this kid hanging around court, probably having plots hatched left and right to put him on the "throne" No one talks about the heir except to say they all love him and have his best interest at heart. Is it just that Shogun is a higher title so if Toranaga takes it, the kid doesn't remotely matter anymore? PostNouveau fucked around with this message at 15:48 on Apr 10, 2024 |
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Apr 10, 2024 15:41
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fezball posted:If any one of them were to seize power over the council, Ochiba and the kid become liabilities that need to be taken care of, which is pretty much what happened in real history (although it took another 15 years until the deed was fully completed). OK, yeah that is not super surprising. That poo poo happened all the time in Europe during succession crises, so I don't see why Japan would be any different. I think Mariko has alluded to this a couple of times, but they seem determined to make Ochiba a moustache-twirling villain who hates Toranaga because she's got a grudge from decades ago rather than someone who's backed into a corner and has a very good reason to ally with the guy she knows she can completely control.
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Apr 10, 2024 16:20
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Mordja posted:I think Martin's supposed to be the only true believer versus the other priests who are only in it for greed/political clout. The show's portrayed him as fairly upstanding. Yeah, the first priest screaming for them to execute Blackthorne immediately wasn't really giving off a "man of god" vibe
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Apr 12, 2024 17:54
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I think more than half Yabu's lines in this episode were grunts of some kind, and all of them were gold
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Apr 16, 2024 05:56
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I appreciated that Mariko's previously shown combat training was not leading to her winning a fight against like 8 dudes at once. I got little concerned that the show was going to swing wildly into complete shock when someone handed her a spear. Her putting on a good show while not really trying to hurt anyone was very well done. I thought all the stuntmen had great "Oh gently caress, this lady's coming at me with a spear, and also, I will be killed if I hurt her" faces.
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Apr 16, 2024 20:56
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McNally posted:Also not a great plan because the shinobi attack happened inside the castle. Yeah, he killed a regent earlier. He just let him leave the castle and then had him murked on the road. I dunno I probably woulda gone with that plan again.
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Apr 17, 2024 00:11
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joepinetree posted:But the whole point is that Mariko couldn't leave the castle. After she left, what happened to her was irrelevant. I figure if he kills her on the road it establishes a different precarious state where everyone knows they could leave if they press the issue, but they will be murdered if they do, so no one does.
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Apr 17, 2024 04:07
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Shishkahuben posted:Are there practical or cultural reasons that samurai re-sheath their swords immediately after use? Part of me always wonders how much blood is coating the inside of their scabbards after the lil flick they do. Probably just artistic license, it just stands out a little bit. Because it looks awesome. That first samurai super quickly slicing down those two dudes Mariko told him to kill was loving great. I liked how he was just some random mook Mariko controls, not given a name, unceremoniously shot full of arrows a few seconds later.
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Apr 17, 2024 21:25
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Jamwad Hilder posted:In fact maybe the most famous ninja, Hattori Hanzo, was samurai. I mean, if he were actually good at being a ninja, we wouldn't know his name 
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Apr 19, 2024 23:52
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twistedmentat posted:I hope we get some Fuji in the last episode. It's already a huge disaster they killed Mariko. I get the impression Ishido would get murdered by a mob of his own people if he killed everyone in that room.
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Apr 20, 2024 05:20
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There's a nice little moment where Omi orders Blackthorne to surrender his sword and gun and he does it immediately, and the look of surprise on Omi's face is great. You can tell he was expecting another standoff to ensue over it, and maybe Fuji pointing a gun at him again.
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Apr 23, 2024 14:32
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IRL did this work out for the heir or did he "accidentally slip on some rocks while hiking" or something along those lines? Or is this so fictionalized that you can't really connect the real people to it down the road?
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Apr 23, 2024 16:00
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Zero VGS posted:Out of the whole show the one big mystery for me is, what exactly was the plan for that bird that Anjin left to air dry? lol that British Cuisine is so loving bad that it killed people without eating it Like the rabbit stew no one wanted, he was gonna make horrific British monstrosity with it
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Apr 24, 2024 03:21
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| # ¿ May 9, 2024 11:22 |
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HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:buntaro also didn’t fight off an army, he fought a bunch of peasants. it’s not impressive when a knight fights off peasants. it IS impressive that he made it back, but blackthorne doesn’t know if he had to fight off anyone actually threatening. I dunno, I think the escape is impressive no matter who was chasing him. You read actual great feats of combat throughout history, and it's most often like "fought off 3 dudes at once," not, like, a John Wick level of violence.
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Apr 30, 2024 15:45
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