|
I've always been slightly concerned that the novels wouldn't live up to my memory of them if I re-read them, so a modern adaptation with a high budget is hopefully the next best thing! Like the novel, I hope we spend as much time as possible with Toranaga over Blackthorne.
|
#
¿
Feb 26, 2024 00:42
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 9, 2024 16:59 |
|
|
Looking forward to seeing one of my favorite scenes, where Blackthorne and his limited Japanese are introduced to the mother of the son of the previous Shogun, and he figures he should try his best to be flattering but keeps thinking he has hosed up because she keeps brushing off his compliments. The whole thing from the perspective of the Court is two utter geniuses clashing verbally, showcasing their skills at verbal wordplay to gain advantage and either corner her into a position where she must say something politically embarrassing or for her to counter him to the point she can politely disengage. Except Blackthorne had absolutely no loving idea of how everybody else is misinterpreting his intent, and the mother is fighting for her loving life trying to keep him at bay thinking he's somebody's secret weapon sent in to destroy her 
|
|
#
¿
Feb 26, 2024 06:57
|
|
|
Holy poo poo, watched the 1st episode and it's basically the world I saw in my mind when I read the book, absolutely loving incredible and goddamn if you can't see all the money they spent on it 
|
|
#
¿
Feb 28, 2024 04:39
|
|
|
Yeah just finished the second episode and it's killing me that I'm gonna have to wait a week for the next one, this show is incredibly good.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 28, 2024 06:13
|
|
|
Toranaga's little twitch of a smile after "Unless I win" was so loving great.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 28, 2024 07:36
|
|
|
Also I loved Toranaga and his wife teasing each other, and their old general buddy being utterly delighted by the whole thing 
|
|
#
¿
Feb 28, 2024 20:55
|
|
|
I would legit love to see an adaptation of Whirlwind, even if it feels so removed from everything else in the books apart from a couple of lines about the power struggle for control of the business empire.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 28, 2024 21:17
|
|
|
Just as a comparison, here's the 1980 version of the Zen Garden scene from episode 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWtFfxjLjUU Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 23:11 on Feb 28, 2024 |
|
#
¿
Feb 28, 2024 23:09
|
|
|
Holy poo poo, I didn't recognize her at all from Monarch, but then I gave up on that show when it just got too frustrating to watch and the writing was starting to piss me off. So glad she's in something this good instead.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 29, 2024 14:45
|
|
|
Those were several centuries earlier, I believe?
|
|
#
¿
Feb 29, 2024 23:12
|
|
|
I have the same one sitting on my bookshelf right now, yep  Picked it and the rest of the series up for super cheap at a book fair years ago, an incredible deal - they're tattered and the spines are sun faded but all the pages are in there and that is what matters!
|
|
#
¿
Mar 3, 2024 05:18
|
|
|
Episode 3 was as excellent as the first two, I love that the escape from Osaka managed to be both simultaneously urgent and patient, and the wrap-up with Blackthorne teaching Toranaga how to dive and having the swimming race with him was a fantastic way to come down from the drama. Also the bureaucracy getting weaponized was hilarious. "Oh sure go ahead and vote to impeach Toranaga... but you need 5 votes and there are only 4 of you now"
|
|
#
¿
Mar 5, 2024 13:39
|
|
|
My favorite part of the fight in the forest was the ambushers going,"...wait... are they fighting each other now?"
|
|
#
¿
Mar 6, 2024 03:18
|
|
|
Jamwad Hilder posted:I've actually never read the other books Clavell wrote, but I've been thinking about checking them out. They're ripping yarns, full of politicking and crime and a ton of side characters getting their own fun little stories (like the cleaning lady who wins big at the horse races - actually she may have taken it off the corpse of a dude who died of excitement? - and IMMEDIATELY starts scheming on how to turn it into a business empire, then like 2 books later it's casually mentioned that she's now a major player in Hong Kong business  ) - but they were written by an old white British dude in the 1970s writing about Asian cultures, and he's really trying his best but there can't help be some  moments in his writing.I can't help but laugh at the moment in Whirlwind when he's writing about how apparently ALL Iranians are reckless drivers, and there's a section where some dudes are just zooming down the road weaving in and out of traffic, go flying off a cliff and die in a fireball and the rest of the traffic are just "oh well, gently caress that guy I guess  ")
Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 05:22 on Mar 6, 2024 |
|
#
¿
Mar 6, 2024 05:19
|
|
|
Gotta even things up after he made Blackthorne dive multiple times in a row first!
|
|
#
¿
Mar 6, 2024 05:51
|
|
|
I did love the end of episode 1 when Blackthorne sees Osaka and realizes what a huge city it is.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 6, 2024 11:26
|
|
|
Perestroika posted:I'm not 100% on my memory of the book either, but I also do seem to recall Buntaro committing seppuku rather than charging into battle again. Just took a look at my copy because I was having conflicting memories too: Buntaro and a woman make it to the wharf but she can't swim. Blackthorne orders the boat back but Yabu overrides him, so Blackthorne tosses them an oar. The woman tries to use it to float and kick her way to the boat but she panics and loses it, and drowns. Buntaro can swim but decides to commit seppuku instead, Mariko explaining that if he throws himself back into the fight or tries to swim and gets captured, it would be an unbearable shame. Blackthorne pleads with Toranaga who ignores him (though he does take the moment shown in the episode to bow as a token of gratitude to Buntaro for his efforts), but when the fighting between the other two factions creates a potential escape route, Toranaga suddenly bellows to Buntaro that he must attempt an escape. Buntaro is torn between wanting to die right then for a variety of reasons but in the end his lord has given him an order and so he follows it, and they see him disappear into the darkness before they turn to face the "fishing" boats that are blocking the harbor.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 6, 2024 14:21
|
|
|
Yeah, I'm enjoying Jarvis and I dug their take on the "madman" scene with the litters, especially with the follow-up when Mariko's all "Is it really true that all women in England are treated with such reverence and hold their virtue so close?  " and he goes,"What? No, they're all trollops and slatterns!"
|
|
#
¿
Mar 7, 2024 10:20
|
|
|
On The Internet posted:He never wore a kimono before they started filming. That's why he's awkward! One of the bits I love in the books is a bit where Blackthorne is warmly remembering when it got cold in England and he'd just lie down on the floor and cuddle with his dogs to stay warm, and imagining the horror the Japanese characters would have if he told them that.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 9, 2024 03:48
|
|
|
Yeah, it was the crew he sailed to Osaka with under Rodriguez, but they've good reason to like him and want to help him since he saved all their lives taking control of the boat when Rodriguez was knocked overboard. His actual crew are still being held at the village where he first washed up ashore, and that (I think) is where they're heading now so he can start training Yabu and the others fighting tactics that he doesn't actually have any idea about. Edit: yep, as above! Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 14:48 on Mar 11, 2024 |
|
#
¿
Mar 9, 2024 15:50
|
|
|
I have such a big backlog of games already but seriously feeling the urge to reinstall Total War Shogun 2 and make Tokugawa Ieyasu disappointed in my hamfisted attempts at generaling
|
|
#
¿
Mar 12, 2024 01:24
|
|
|
Holy poo poo what a(nother) great episode. Toranaga's dumbass son getting so easily manipulated by Yabu's nephew was both frustrating and also fantastic to watch happen. Also lol at: Sees Toranaga arrive: We should have brought better sake  Sees Toranaga immediately leave: We should have brought the cheap stuff 
Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 02:10 on Mar 13, 2024 |
|
#
¿
Mar 12, 2024 11:07
|
|
|
Panzeh posted:Yabu's great, an absolute idiot going through betrayal city. I love how completely naked his schemes are to basically everybody If he was just an idiot it wouldn't work, but right from the first episode up to now we've seen that while obviously he wants to live and succeed and will do pretty much anything to ensure that, he's not a coward, he isn't beyond putting his ego aside when necessary, and he's also completely prepared for the notion of failure and his death if he ends up cornered. A great character and I love the performance that Tadanobu Asano is giving.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 12, 2024 13:13
|
|
|
Entorwellian posted:I don't like too many television shows but this is one of the best things I've ever watched. Somebody earlier likened it to Chernobyl and yeah that is the last time I remember a series just utterly blowing me away in every aspect of its production just being flawless. Edit: Andor was probably the next closest, but Shogun really does feel like something special.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 13, 2024 05:18
|
|
|
Tankbuster posted:drat, they turned those messengers into chunky paste. I'm sure part of it was down to shock, but Jozen being so utterly hosed up and still being all,"gently caress YOU GUYS, MY BOSS IS GONNA BEAT ALL YOUR COWARD ASSES!" did a pretty good job of selling that he was a scary loving dude.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 13, 2024 11:05
|
|
|
Semisomnum posted:Do we still have to be coy about Blackthorne-like activities around here? Just in case: you guys should check out Anna's library. It's got a pretty huge archive Look I think Anna Sawai is great as well but there's no need to go rifling through her library, celebrities deserve their privacy too!
|
|
#
¿
Mar 14, 2024 22:33
|
|
|
Vampire Panties posted:Reading/watching in her memory Hell yeah, gonna watch the episodes again just for your Grandma (and also me  )
|
|
#
¿
Mar 15, 2024 01:56
|
|
|
Arglebargle III posted:Lol turns out ajiro village is in the studio parking lot. That's some incredible set and cg work That's straight up amazing, holy poo poo 
|
|
#
¿
Mar 15, 2024 15:56
|
|
|
grobbo posted:For all the Game of Thrones comparisons, Shogun is really much closer to The Wire Fuji: Where's the baby, Tadayoshi? WHERE THE gently caress IS THE BABY? TADAYOSHI!?! TADAYOSHI! LOOK AT ME! LOOK AT ME! WHERE THE gently caress IS THE BABY, HUH!?! I don't want this kosode wearing motherfucker representing me, so just get the gently caress back down to Osaka!
|
|
#
¿
Mar 16, 2024 14:08
|
|
|
Yawn, another week, another fantastic episode, the showrunners refuse to change it up! loving amazing all the way through, and I loved the way they made minor alterations to the gardener/pheasant story to tie things in a bit more with the wider story beyond just another "Blackthorne doesn't understand what he's doing" story. It's hard to separate out any one particular moment since everything was so good, but I loved the sequence of Toranaga dressing down his dipshit son and pointing out Omi had played him, then praising Omi to Yabu to put the cat among the pigeons there and occupy the two of them with trying to play each other (Omi's smarter, Yabu has the power advantage) while also probably making Omi feel valued by Toranaga. Meanwhile, Toranaga's son is both furious at his dad but also himself, is probably now paranoid about Omi (and Yabu, but he probably already was) and even more driven to try and prove himself. The whole bit with Toranaga explaining that any man can be broken, you just have to figure out the right way to do it, in action. 
Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 12:51 on Mar 19, 2024 |
|
#
¿
Mar 19, 2024 12:47
|
|
|
I got the impression (could be wrong) that there was just enough elements of truth in the story that they could use the peasant as cover. The Gardener appeared to be on friendly terms with the samurai working undercover for Toranaga, there was a remark that the gardener had been sick and that this was in some way a way for him to die achieving something greater (protecting his friend as well as indirectly serving Toranaga) while using the useful pretext of the pheasant corpse as a cover. I think (maybe just want to believe) that the gardener wasn't coaxed or manipulated like Omi did to Nagakado, but was asked to do it and agreed. Importantly we don't get to see anything, we just learn about the death after the fact, so there's a lot of space for interpretation.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 19, 2024 16:15
|
|
|
Poor lady keeps being saddled with unbelievable dumbasses as partners so I love her mixture of exasperation with Blackthorne and determination to keep him from getting himself killed.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 21, 2024 08:57
|
|
|
My assumption is that the spy would mysteriously "disappear" or be killed by "bandits", and Yabu and Toranaga would both pretend that they had no idea anything important had happened. The benefit for Yabu would be not having to worry about Toranaga immediately knowing things that Yabu didn't want him to (at least immediately).
|
|
#
¿
Mar 21, 2024 09:54
|
|
|
Dingleberry2 posted:Also, her version of the story is that her father was doing the right thing and assassinating a corrupt ruler. But the disdain that Buntaro shows for her makes me wonder if that's the story she tells herself, and really, he was just a failed coup leader. That would kind of mirror what she told Blackthorn about Fuji's swords just being dollar store swords because Fuji's father was actually just a coward and didn't die some noble death, but everyone is too polite to tell that to Fuji. In addition to what else has been said, regardless of anything else, you're only a traitor and a hated coward and piece of poo poo if you lose. It's the understood reverse of "Unless I win" that comes with gambling with rebellion, if you lose then your name will be cursed forever because everybody always hated you all along even if they didn't mention it before. If you win, you are the great hero and liberator who everybody always secretly wanted to win.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 22, 2024 02:28
|
|
|
PostNouveau posted:Why were they freaking out about the swords so much? Some other stupid honor thing? Toranga would have had to kill himself, his whole family, and the entire city of Edo if didn't have swords for a few minutes? I don't recall the specific reason given (if any) in the book, and it probably is just a specific honor thing where it's a bad look for their leader to be without his symbols of status. But just from a general perspective my first thought was people being very concerned about how it'll look if an earthquake suddenly smashes the place where Toranaga's army has only just arrived, where Jozen - a messenger of the currently valid government - was murdered, AND Toranaga loses his swords - some people including potential allies might see it as a sign from above that Toranaga is cursed (Catholics especially might declare it was a sign from God) for daring to stand against the other regents in violation of the Taiko's dying wish. Instead, an earthquake hits and Toranaga emerges alive because he's the one true man to unite Japan, and not even a natural disaster can stop him from his destiny!
|
|
#
¿
Mar 22, 2024 02:38
|
|
|
Good God that was a hell of an episode, and it kept going and everything kept being amazing. The Willow World sequence was incredible, and I can't believe how amazing a presence Lady Ochiba is despite this being her first full episode. "I compelled Fate to look my way, and I scratched it's eyes out."  Edit: Also the quiet seething over, and passive aggressive demonstrations of, the correct way to place a cup on the floor during the negotiations was cracking me up. Mariko wanted to beat the poo poo out of that lady so badly
Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 08:44 on Mar 26, 2024 |
|
#
¿
Mar 26, 2024 08:28
|
|
|
Nice Tuckpointing! posted:The way Mariko waited until the haggling got annoying to drop the "Oh by the way, this is for Anjin" bomb. And the way she IMMEDIATELY noted that Anjin is both of a highly respected rank and that this rank was bestowed on him by Toranaga, putting the madame (I don't know what the correct term would be here) immediately in a position where she can't betray the slightest distaste or objection to her top courtesan having to serve a "barbarian" or risk being seen to insult Toranaga by proxy
|
|
#
¿
Mar 26, 2024 16:26
|
|
|
Ishido is the only man who can stop the bandits from causing so much damage in Osaka, the city that Ishido is in charge of!
|
|
#
¿
Mar 26, 2024 19:23
|
|
|
Vampire Panties posted:
Blackthorne: gently caress off or I'll kill you! Omi: Sure you will, barbarian  Fuji: Kindly leave before I respectfully pop a cap in yo rear end. Omi: Oh shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit
|
|
#
¿
Mar 27, 2024 04:36
|
|
I'm your huckleberry
|
|
| # ¿ May 9, 2024 16:59 |
|
|
Ochiba as the next Mission Impossible baddie, played EXACTLY the same way
|
|
#
¿
Mar 27, 2024 05:23
|
|