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Zhanism posted:In the end Gendo is the master manipulator and everyone else is an idiot. Everything Wille does Gendo anticipates. The whole 3rd movie happens because they didnt bother to tell Shinji ANYTHING about what happened so of course he runs off with Rei the first chance they get. Yeah if I were there I would’ve stopped gendo easy
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Aug 16, 2021 19:58
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The REAL Goobusters posted:Yeah if I were there I would’ve stopped gendo easy
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Aug 16, 2021 20:06
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just shoot him in the head or something :/
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Aug 16, 2021 20:09
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Zhanism posted:In the end Gendo is the master manipulator and everyone else is an idiot. Everything Wille does Gendo anticipates. The whole 3rd movie happens because they didnt bother to tell Shinji ANYTHING about what happened so of course he runs off with Rei the first chance they get. Eh, gendo has moved beyond humanity so he may as well be able to look into the possible futures and plan accordingly. He just chooses to move things towards the future that makes everybody else look like an idiot because he's a colossal dick
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Aug 16, 2021 20:11
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JazzFlight posted:The only way to stop a bad guy with a Gendo is a good guy with a Gendo. So... Shinji?
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Aug 16, 2021 20:13
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Zhanism posted:In the end Gendo is the master manipulator and everyone else is an idiot. Everything Wille does Gendo anticipates. The whole 3rd movie happens because they didnt bother to tell Shinji ANYTHING about what happened so of course he runs off with Rei the first chance they get. Misato's whole Thing, right from the start of the original show was flying by the seat of her pants and coming up with complex seeming plans that relied almost exclusively on blind luck and working out because Gendo was her boss instead of her adversary. The second the dynamic is flipped, Gendo proceeds to continually roll her for 14 straight years culminating with Final Impact.
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Aug 16, 2021 20:14
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Randalor posted:Considering that the second ship only had the same guns as the Wunder, and the third had to resort to ramming, Wille may have been hoping that they could catch Gendo before he had all three ships airborne. Doesn't Wille express shock that Gendo had the other ships ready and airborne? I think there was a line or two where they mentioned that they knew Gendo had other ships, but they thought that they had taken the only operational one and were surprised the others had finished completion.
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Aug 16, 2021 20:29
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SUNKOS posted:Doesn't Wille express shock that Gendo had the other ships ready and airborne? I think there was a line or two where they mentioned that they knew Gendo had other ships, but they thought that they had taken the only operational one and were surprised the others had finished completion. If I remember correctly, they were kind-of-but-not-really surprised that the first airship was fully complete, surprised that the second airship was airborne but not fully armed, and I think by the time the third one rammed them, it was less "surprise" and more "tired acknowledgment". I'm not sure if they knew he needed the airships for his plan, but they knew he needed Unit 13 and were on a time crunch. Even if they didn't go after him, all he needed to do was build another airship, so it's not like he needed the Wunder to win.
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Aug 16, 2021 20:42
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The conditions for triggering the apocalypse seem pretty difficult to predict TBH. Not sure you can do much better than just "smash his thing before he can use it". (although Asuka going angel mode did seem like a clear tactical error)
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Aug 16, 2021 20:45
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She'd been waiting to use her chuuni eye for 15 years so of course she was going to take the first excuse to do it.
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Aug 16, 2021 20:49
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I'm really hoping something in the future comes out that goes over what actually happened during N3I. That's actually super interesting to me on what caused the changes we saw and how anyone survived. Given village 3 was there because of the anti angel pillers and I doubt anyone had the foresight to set them up before hand, most of the world turning into core must have happened slow enough for some counter measures or in stages of some sort.
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Aug 16, 2021 20:51
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Zhanism posted:I'm really hoping something in the future comes out that goes over what actually happened during N3I. That's actually super interesting to me on what caused the changes we saw and how anyone survived. Given village 3 was there because of the anti angel pillers and I doubt anyone had the foresight to set them up before hand, most of the world turning into core must have happened slow enough for some counter measures or in stages of some sort. I think the idea is that if it hadn't been stopped there would be no helping it but it getting interrupted would slow things down
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Aug 16, 2021 20:54
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Is it me or is Fuyutsuki different in 3.0 and 3.0+1.0?
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Aug 16, 2021 21:32
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Zhanism posted:In the end Gendo is the master manipulator and everyone else is an idiot. Everything Wille does Gendo anticipates. The whole 3rd movie happens because they didnt bother to tell Shinji ANYTHING about what happened so of course he runs off with Rei the first chance they get. Well, in three, both Kaworu and Mari catch on to the plan at the last minute, and managed to delay what Gendo was aiming for until 3+1. Which makes sense. Kaworu spent years working closely with Gendo, and Mari's a college buddy of his. They saw how Gendo actually played, rather than his feigned perfection, so that could at least respond when they saw something move from "might be Gendo's plan" to "Gendo plan".
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Aug 16, 2021 21:35
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Randalor posted:So maybe I missed something, but what exactly was Seele's deal in Rebuild? The early table scene with all the dudes being representatives of nations or interests drives this home. In Rebuild Your guess is as good as mine. it appears that they're some kind of AI, MAGI precursor, or digitally-preserved organisms, since Gendo shutting them down shows a big brain xray before they power off
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Aug 16, 2021 22:14
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Randalor posted:So maybe I missed something, but what exactly was Seele's deal in Rebuild? In the original series, they were just a typical "shadow organization that would leave out the final step in the plan when talking to underlings" group, but in Rebuild, they have technology so advance that it apparently can't be replicated by Nerv/Wille (the black pillars specifically) and we never actually see them. Considering the talk of "forced evolution" being the history of Lilim, were they just supposed to be a precursor race to Humanity that chose to upload themselves so they could guide Humanity and/or see what came after Humanity? They were apparently content to die in 3.33 after the Third Impact. pretty much. seele were representatives of some kind of precursor race (perhaps even a first ancestral race, you could say) who seemed to be set on guiding humanity along the path of the 'gods' that gendo talked about. whether they were directly linked to the 'gods' or just some species who thought it was a good idea is unknown. redsniper posted:Was someone driving unit 13 when it rekt Asuka or had NERV just automated it like they do with everything else? kaworu was still in one of the entry plugs, and he can be seen standing behind asuka's original. Zhanism posted:I'm really hoping something in the future comes out that goes over what actually happened during N3I. That's actually super interesting to me on what caused the changes we saw and how anyone survived. Given village 3 was there because of the anti angel pillers and I doubt anyone had the foresight to set them up before hand, most of the world turning into core must have happened slow enough for some counter measures or in stages of some sort. well, we saw N3I -- that was the thing that kaworu stopped with the spear. the thing we know very little about and is maddeningly obscure is third impact itself, although we can arrange some order of events based on what we've got in the preview for the third film, things we see in the third film, and stuff from the last film. however, what gets really confusing is how people within the village seem to regard near third impact as being more of an event than actual third. there are a lot of little interesting tidbits, though: like how did unit 01 end up with no arms and legs and who threw it into space? it could also be that what people in the know call 'third impact' others call 'near third' and what we know as 'near third' is just ignored? but that seems needlessly complicated. Horizon Burning fucked around with this message at 00:06 on Aug 17, 2021 |
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Aug 16, 2021 23:45
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I feel like they never mentioned Hyuga, or I totally missed him. edit: oh man i looked it up, I just totally did not recognize him lol.
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Aug 16, 2021 23:51
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shame on an IGA posted:done with 3.0+1.0, don't understand all the confusion about Mari? She's an obvious extension of the theme "meeting new people is good" now that Auska, Toji and the rest can't be used to make that point after this cast of characters has been repeatedly and intentionally traumatized together like someone trying to bond houserabbits. Not disagreing at all but to add on to this (by projecting my own feelings); Mari reminds me a lot of the sort of quirky, odd people you meet when you grow up. I'm aware that a lot of people say that she's a very typical manic pixy fairy sort of character or whatever that trope is called, but what I see is someone that is unashamedly herself at all times, showing love, interest, concern and most of all, willingness and ability to help others in their journey. She is a strong person and she knows it, but rather than reflect and muse upon her strength, she uses her strength to help and aid others. And more than anything, she is the sort of friend that you keep because you've grown past the pain and traumas of the past; pain and traumas you've learned from and worked out somewhat, and though you might see your old friends, friendships and bonds you've grown out of at the train station and carry their memories with you as much as possible, it's good to have someone that takes off your choker and joins you in running out to experience the world  More than anything, the movie emphasized the importance of communication and willingness to be open and accept the help, love and aid of others to achieve your goals. I thought this was a very beautiful sentiment when seen in parallel to the original timeline in which individualistic desires, selfishness and your ego caused the very literal end of the world and though it arguably ended up with a sorta happy note in EoE, creating the world on the wishes of a single person seemed like a very lonely existence to wake up in. This movie, for me, was very clearly about the importance of opening up and working together to make each other stronger, through adversity and through good times.
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Aug 17, 2021 00:57
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Horizon Burning posted:
The amount of "we salvaged/found a way to use enough of this persons genetic/soul data from the entry plug to make it work" poo poo in the Rebuilds is p staggering.
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Aug 17, 2021 01:01
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trucutru posted:Do Japanese people have a similar idiom? Otherwise I don't see it. "気骨" (Kikotsu) means spirit or grit, in direct reference to having a backbone. "意気地のない" (Ikujinonai) means cowardly, specifically in a "without a spine" way.
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Aug 17, 2021 01:09
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Horizon Burning posted:well, we saw N3I -- that was the thing that kaworu stopped with the spear. the thing we know very little about and is maddeningly obscure is third impact itself, although we can arrange some order of events based on what we've got in the preview for the third film, things we see in the third film, and stuff from the last film. however, what gets really confusing is how people within the village seem to regard near third impact as being more of an event than actual third. there are a lot of little interesting tidbits, though: like how did unit 01 end up with no arms and legs and who threw it into space? it could also be that what people in the know call 'third impact' others call 'near third' and what we know as 'near third' is just ignored? but that seems needlessly complicated. From what the movies say: Near Third Impact happened. The only reason it didn't complete is because it got stopped but it still hosed the world over really good. The damaging effects got worse over time but not before people could set up the safety villages/the NERV civil war happened/etc. The damage was done and the world was right hosed, it was just that there was enough time to survive and make safe zones and even figure out ways to slowly undo the damage. It's called Near Third because unlike the other Impacts it was stopped.
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Aug 17, 2021 01:09
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ImpAtom posted:From what the movies say: sigh no this is not what the movies say, and doesn't make any sense with the visuals we see in 2.22, the film where near third impact happened. there were two separate events, unless the argument is that the ending of the second film has been completely disregarded and retconned and the creative team was so sloppy as to forget that misato's arm was busted at near third and healed at third impact implying that at least a few weeks had passed between the two
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Aug 17, 2021 01:23
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ImpAtom posted:From what the movies say: What people have said about what happened during the timeskip and looking again at some of the dialogue from 3.33 (which may have been terribly put because of translation), it seems like the event with Shinji at the end of 2 was 'Near Third Impact', Kaworu suspended it, then there was a short time period where other stuff happened, then Gendo etc took out the spear and resumed it and caused actual Third Impact, which was what really hosed the world and made everything red and poo poo. People still blame Shinji because he started it all off and N3I is considered the trigger of actual 3I, but they seem to have been distinct events that both happened. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 01:29 on Aug 17, 2021 |
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Aug 17, 2021 01:24
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i just watched 3.0+1.0. it's been 9 loving years and i had very high expectations. honestly? i really enjoyed it. i loved the sense of finality and closure to all this, seemed very fitting given the turbulent production. i didn't love the cgi in some (many) scenes, but they were the sort of thing that wouldn't be realistically possible to do in 2D anyway, and it wasn't a deal breaker. i feel a bit sad now that it's all finally over, but i'm also happy. it was a nice sendoff.
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Aug 17, 2021 01:31
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MikeJF posted:What people have said about what happened during the timeskip and looking again at some of the dialogue from 3.33 (which may have been terribly put because of translation), it seems like the event with Shinji at the end of 2 was 'Near Third Impact', Kaworu suspended it, then there was a short time period where other stuff happened, then Gendo etc took out the spear and resumed it and caused actual Third Impact, which was what really hosed the world and made everything red and poo poo. People still blame Shinji because he started it all off and N3I is considered the trigger of actual 3I, but they seem to have been distinct events that both happened. pretty much. what we know is, basically: near-third shinji awakens unit 01 into a radiant giant and begins third impact as an unintended consquence of his desire to save rei this is part of gendo's plan to outplay SEELE and their mark 06 true evangelion kaworu arrives, in mark 06, and halts the impact with the lance of cassius tokyo-3 is devastated but overall the damage does not appear severe, lillith remains on her cross misato's arm is in a sling in-between nerv staff are incarcerated (by the UN?) unit 01 is sealed in a ring of those pillars and dubbed the 'near-third impact site' gendo and fuyutsuki seemingly escape kaworu ends up in command of NERV, with kaji as his second (perhaps at SEELE's command?) the eleventh angel appears and is dispatched mark 06 is automated at the command of 'the lilin' third impact misato's arm is healed mark 06 decapitates lillith within terminal dogma the twelfth angel is involved (potentially having possessed the automated mark 6) the Wunder is present, presumably under WILLE's control WILLE seem to be formed in this moment against NERV (kaji's VTOL has WILLE sprayed over the NERV logo) -- therefore, it's possible that gendo is back in command, and then this third impact may have been orchestrated by NERV/SEELE kaji stops third impact by sacrificing his life by the time of 3.33, the world is post-apocalyptic afterwards a seal is placed on terminal dogma preventing anyone from reaching lillith (until the invention of the unique two-system Eva-13) while distinction is drawn between N3I and Third Impact by people 'in the know', it appears that regular people consider N3I more damaging fourteen years on SEELE move into NERV HQ, go silent, and appear to be somewhat damaged gendo, fuytsuki and kaworu remain the only people in NERV HQ. gendo and fuyutsuki consider kaworu "SEELE's boy" timing unclear nerv is rebranded and gets a new logo. this appears to be AFTER the wille uprising given the damaged old logo we see in 3.33, but it is unclear because... evangelion 01 is turned to core, loses its arms and legs, and is sealed in the tesseract and thrown into space. unclear who arranged this, although the tesseract is marked with the new nerv logo, which one thinks new nerv (under gendo?) wouldn't want to part with. the spear of cassius is removed from unit 01, presumably making something bad happen. this happening during third impact could explain why people think shinji was involved. unknown was unit 01 involved with third impact in any way, or was it merely the 'trigger?' what does that mean? Horizon Burning fucked around with this message at 03:35 on Aug 17, 2021 |
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Aug 17, 2021 02:05
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Stalins Moustache posted:Not disagreing at all but to add on to this (by projecting my own feelings); Mari reminds me a lot of the sort of quirky, odd people you meet when you grow up. I'm aware that a lot of people say that she's a very typical manic pixy fairy sort of character or whatever that trope is called, but what I see is someone that is unashamedly herself at all times, showing love, interest, concern and most of all, willingness and ability to help others in their journey. She is a strong person and she knows it, but rather than reflect and muse upon her strength, she uses her strength to help and aid others. And more than anything, she is the sort of friend that you keep because you've grown past the pain and traumas of the past; pain and traumas you've learned from and worked out somewhat, and though you might see your old friends, friendships and bonds you've grown out of at the train station and carry their memories with you as much as possible, it's good to have someone that takes off your choker and joins you in running out to experience the world I think I talked about this before, but one trait that's emphasized with Mari early on is her willingness to get hurt. It's not that she likes it, per se, but she doesn't mind it, and she just kind of rolls with things like the pain of losing an arm. On its own, that makes her look a bit... Getter pilot, but looking at the wider context of Evangelion, one of the big points is the hedgehog's dilemma, that getting close to others means getting hurt. In that light, Mari's willingingness to take a hit and her forming social connections with everyone around her are basically different manifestations of the same thing. Life's rough, so if you want to be happy, you have to be willing to take a few hits in the process.
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Aug 17, 2021 03:21
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Horizon Burning posted:sigh The two separate events were part of the whole. That's kind of the point. Shinji's actions brought about an apocalyptic scenario but thanks to it being stopped via spear there was enough time for actual solutions to be put in play whereas if it hadn't been stopped then the world would have gone full End of Eva right there. Near Third Impact is the one people consider the huge disaster while Third Impact was stopped by Kaji and didn't seem to have anywhere as serious consequences. (Or if it did they weren't significant enough to ping for people over N3I.) The majority of the damage appears to have been done by N3I and the way everyone acts would make zero sense if that wasn't the case. The fact that Third Impact happened doesn't mean it was more significant than N3I, especially since Kaji stopped it seemingly permanently however the hell he did. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 04:04 on Aug 17, 2021 |
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Aug 17, 2021 03:50
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All of this discussion just proves that there's a missing movie's worth of story in there, a hole intentionally left so they could maybe fill it someday, or maybe not.
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Aug 17, 2021 04:10
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The United States posted:All of this discussion just proves that there's a missing movie's worth of story in there, a hole intentionally left so they could maybe fill it someday, or maybe not. There absolutely is but also it's in a weird state of not really being necessary because everything that happened that really matters happened, everything beyond that is varying degrees of lore and technobabble. Which is something 3.0+1.0 sort of embraces in that it doesn't need to explain poo poo because the giant robots and biblical imagery are all just giant metaphors anyway. I won't say I wouldn't watch the hell out of it but I also don't feel the need for it to exist. Also there's something pleasing about Kaji dying mysteriously to an offscreen presence in both versions of the story. Destined to have people eternally arguing about how he died.
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Aug 17, 2021 04:15
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I have come to this subforum for the first time in all my many years of posting on this dumb site to say: movie owned edit: I got the impression that Kaji didn't literally stop the near-third impact, but managed to get them the technology to build the pillars that kept the red at bay and let civilization survive. When Shinji pulls the spears, it's a continuation near-third (Kaworu calls it the Fourth), which Kaworu stops by impaling the Eva they're both in on the spears he's holding right before he explodes. Kensuke does say that at one point but I can't figure how he'd manage that with a single helicopter anyway. kaptainkaffeine fucked around with this message at 07:03 on Aug 17, 2021 |
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Aug 17, 2021 06:43
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I agree. Glad to have you here mate.
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Aug 17, 2021 06:49
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The Notorious ZSB posted:The amount of "we salvaged/found a way to use enough of this persons genetic/soul data from the entry plug to make it work" poo poo in the Rebuilds is p staggering. Yamashita Ikuto, the mechanical designer of the Rebuilds sometimes posts concept art on Twitter. This is the machine inside the Eva-13 entry plug that was used to patch Kaworu's body back together. His soul remains gone though, that's just an empty shell. http://twitter.com/ikuto_yamashita/status/1381101946170343426 I guess that's all it takes, given that the soul-less "Advanced Ayanami Series" were enough to pilot units 09 through 12, too.
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Aug 17, 2021 07:22
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ImpAtom posted:The two separate events were part of the whole. That's kind of the point. Shinji's actions brought about an apocalyptic scenario but thanks to it being stopped via spear there was enough time for actual solutions to be put in play whereas if it hadn't been stopped then the world would have gone full End of Eva right there. Near Third Impact is the one people consider the huge disaster while Third Impact was stopped by Kaji and didn't seem to have anywhere as serious consequences. (Or if it did they weren't significant enough to ping for people over N3I.) that's right, the way people are acting doesn't make much sense. the idea that kaworu stopped the impact (the gates of guf closed = impact over) but then it happened slowly anyway isn't supported by anything. for the layman, 'near third impact' presumably covers both events as neither impact ended the world entirely.
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Aug 17, 2021 08:07
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I would blow Dane Cook posted:After all is said and done, who is your waifu? Asuka forever That being said even if I like her the fact that relationship is so toxic yet all shinji has at the end of eoe was so fitting I couldn't imagine it ending any other way. That 3+1 does just makes me feel like the entire deal is cynical, in the bad corporate way. I don't know much about anno tho so maybe he's overjoyed to finally realize his true vision. Crisis posted:End of Evangelion is still the only ending that I think resolves Shinji's character in a way that's satisfying (maybe it lays it on a bit too thick, though). This movie has some good moments that are emotionally resonant e.g. Rei delivering food to Shinji. But overall it feels too much like wish fulfilment. It felt too much like Shinji just resolves everyone's problems with magic at the end. Which also undermines the ending of 3.0. Pretty much. Honestly I don't think anno should have even bothered with the new movies but money I guess. Even if he wanted to do something with a new look on his depression... why not do something new? It feels like if Devilman ended with Akira winning. It's really the only reason I don't like them overall. Acerbatus fucked around with this message at 10:32 on Aug 17, 2021 |
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Aug 17, 2021 10:22
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I would blow Dane Cook posted:After all is said and done, who is your waifu? Asuka no doubt, though the original one and not the Rebuild ones. Mostly feel like she's a stronger character who I identify with more.
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Aug 17, 2021 10:37
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I dunno about waifu, but Asuka's still my favorite character.
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Aug 17, 2021 10:57
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I would blow Dane Cook posted:After all is said and done, who is your waifu? All of them, duh.
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Aug 17, 2021 11:10
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Roth posted:I dunno about waifu, but Asuka's still my favorite character. yeah this My favorite thing about 3+1 is all the Asuka playing video games avatar material
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Aug 17, 2021 11:17
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I'm not into waifus myself, but I would have liked more Asuka & Mari together. The scenes they had together showed they had really good chemistry. Their character types very clashing, of course, but it felt like people who just have gotten used to each others' strengths and weaknesses, over so many years. There were some neat little details that showed they cared about each other (and of course, the bigger parts, like Mari calling Asuka by her name during the Code 999 scene, or being there to say goodbye during her Instrumentality). I do feel a little bad about enjoying these kinds of thoughts, though. Things like Cute Imaginary Couple Fantasy are pretty much exactly what it seems like the movie wants you to let go of.
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Aug 17, 2021 11:39
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I lost sympathy for Asuka Shikinami after she maliciously tries to trigger Shinji's PTSD by pointedly not warning him about Rei Q. Which makes me wonder about the other times she triggers him "by accident".
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Aug 17, 2021 12:16
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