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Chalks posted:An interesting take on Russia's current plans: Bulk grain is going to be much cheaper to ship by sea, and it's uncontroversial that the Ukrainians will want to avoid sitting for years with bombed out cities and drastically limited ability to export
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Apr 22, 2022 14:47
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 FYI: Please avoid sharing videos of POWs being interviewed by either side, they are not to be made objects of public curiosity. If you wish share a video of a POW, it needs to be relevant to an ongoing event in the waraphid_licker posted:Bulk grain is going to be much cheaper to ship by sea, and it's uncontroversial that the Ukrainians will want to avoid sitting for years with bombed out cities and drastically limited ability to export Yeah but they can ship it by rail at least. Its an option. Its laughable that Russia believes they can blockade Ukraine.
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Apr 22, 2022 14:48
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ZombieLenin posted:Are you an expert in international law? The only questionable thing is the distribution of the video, which may run afoul of rules against turning POWs into a public spectacle; of course, the publishing of a recorded interview of a POW has never been found to be an actual violation of that clause by the International Criminal Court or any War Crimes Tribunal. I'm not sure if I was using "hand-wringing" incorrectly to the point where my post said the opposite of what I wanted to say, but I was making the identical point to yours, in the scope of the concept of "war crimes" a pow video where the guy says his address is not a big deal when there's pretty atrocious stuff going on
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Apr 22, 2022 14:50
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Antigravitas posted:FWIW, here's a sizzle reel of those Caesar artillery pieces. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLXAAVkg5TE And it's not just PzH 2000 and Caesars, there are also the DANAs too that the Czechs sent. aphid_licker posted:Bulk grain is going to be much cheaper to ship by sea, and it's uncontroversial that the Ukrainians will want to avoid sitting for years with bombed out cities and drastically limited ability to export
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Apr 22, 2022 14:51
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cinci zoo sniper posted:That reloading pattern feels odd – why do they keep a shell sitting in that side shelf thing at all times, when it doesn't appear to be getting removed in the footage? The side shelf thing is the actual projectile. The reloading pattern appears to be the projectile gets loaded by the shelf loader thing, one person adds the propellant in after the shell, one person adds a new projectile to the loader, they fire. New projectile is loaded, new propellant, new projectile on deck.
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Apr 22, 2022 14:51
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cinci zoo sniper posted:That reloading pattern feels odd – why do they keep a shell sitting in that side shelf thing at all times, when it doesn't appear to be getting removed in the footage? It gets loaded in the gun, then the other dude pushes the propellant charge. You see some (probably) hydraulic hoses connected to that shelf that either assist or perform the loading.
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Apr 22, 2022 14:51
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Just Another Lurker posted:Thales also make the Starstreak and Martlet missiles going to Ukraine, they sell to whoever wants military equipment. From what I understand this was from the post-2014 sanctions. The optics (or whatever it's officially called) were assembled in a Russian factory using French instructions in order to bypass sanctions on the full unit being sold? Should also be noted the source is Ukraine government, so biased in that way. The tone of the video is "this how sanctions are bypassed" and "this bypassing of sanctions led directly to civilian (and cat) death.
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Apr 22, 2022 14:51
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alex314 posted:It gets loaded in the gun, then the other dude pushes the propellant charge. You see some (probably) hydraulic hoses connected to that shelf that either assist or perform the loading. Yeah the shelf basically holds the ready round for the next firing. So you load the first shell, powder bag, fire, and the next shell is already in the tray ready to go so you can fire faster.
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Apr 22, 2022 14:52
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quote:If you and the team do not see it that way, fine, I will see myself out and only continue to post in other subforums’ threads where mods have rules against reposting such content. Me and my genocide denialist friends are decorum respecters and do not stoop so low as to post PoW interrogations. We just deny genocide and cheer for Putin killing some Ukrainians who are all nazis (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Apr 22, 2022 14:53
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mlmp08 posted:Posting about war crimes should of course happen, such as: Reporting on crimes like Bucha massacres, deliberate bombings on civilian refuges, injuring/executing prisoners, sexual violence, civilian relocations, reporting that POWs are being made objects of public curiosity and their home addresses and family names publicized. It is your individual assumption that the interview has been posted uncritically, when the fraught part of the information value of it is about as obvious as water being wet, c.f. the OP's subsequent comment. It may very well not constitute a good post in spherical vacuum, but, posted as is, it does not break any thread or site rules under the interpretations that I'm familiar with. As for your posts, you're welcome to keep making them in this thread for as long as you're a positive contributor to the on-topic discussions. That said, it sounds that you like other threads on the war more, in which case it would be kind-of stupid of you to keep eating the poop you don't like.
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Apr 22, 2022 14:55
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Chalks posted:An interesting take on Russia's current plans: You have to figure EU and the US are cooking up a Marshall plan for Ukraine too.
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Apr 22, 2022 14:57
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The thing about naval blockade to cut Ukraine from exporting grain is the trains are still going. So nothing (assuming they are allowed by Gov) stops Ukrainian companies from moving that freight to Romania. And then it becomes "do we want to start an incident with NATO". And even if Black Sea is completely hazardous for maritime trade Ukrainian companies can just haul this stuff to Greece, or Turkey. Ship it from there to Middle East clients. Or use Polish or German ports and sail from Baltic coast.. As long as Russian Airforce/Strategic Missile Command (or whatever they call it) is unable to shut down train movement they can just add some additional cost to the trade. And properly shutting down trains without total air control means using precious cruise missiles on those things instead of actual military targets. It would absolutely require "friendly help" from China. It would probably be easier to burn the fields before harvest..
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Apr 22, 2022 14:59
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aphid_licker posted:I wish people would not post the POW vids. I've tried to get interesting video off of reluctant subjects in a much less fraught environment than a fuckin POW interrogation and people usually just say what they think you want to hear. It's useless, awkward, and definitely unethical. There's no upside. Yeah, I think this is the more obvious point: not that it's a ~*war crime*~ to post a loving tweet someone else made, just that they will almost never actually add much to the thread because their claims are always going to be incredibly suspect.
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Apr 22, 2022 15:00
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Big RUSI paper on the war. Contains some interesting new narrative on the opening days: https://twitter.com/Jack_Watling/status/1517475912798900224
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Apr 22, 2022 15:03
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mobby_6kl posted:Of course, but what is controversial is that they'd give up a huge chunk of the country for it. Now they wouldn't, if the war bogs down for a year maybe some percentage will. Gotta move on etc.
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Apr 22, 2022 15:03
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alex314 posted:The thing about naval blockade to cut Ukraine from exporting grain is the trains are still going. So nothing (assuming they are allowed by Gov) stops Ukrainian companies from moving that freight to Romania. And then it becomes "do we want to start an incident with NATO". And even if Black Sea is completely hazardous for maritime trade Ukrainian companies can just haul this stuff to Greece, or Turkey. Ship it from there to Middle East clients. Or use Polish or German ports and sail from Baltic coast.. As long as Russian Airforce/Strategic Missile Command (or whatever they call it) is unable to shut down train movement they can just add some additional cost to the trade. And properly shutting down trains without total air control means using precious cruise missiles on those things instead of actual military targets. It would absolutely require "friendly help" from China. Yeah a blockade of Ukraine when you don't even control most of the borders, even if you control their only sea ports, especially when all other countries are working with them logistically, is practically unworkable. Sure, the price increase for shipment will hurt a bit, but Ukraine still has most of their logistics intact and access to allies with ports. They are not in any position to blockade Ukraine.
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Apr 22, 2022 15:03
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"Sir, Finland and Sweden are moving to join NATO even faster than planned! What should we do?" "Threaten them!" "We already did that, it didn't work" "Threaten them MORE EXPLICTLY" https://twitter.com/SamRamani2/status/1517448876298579970?s=20&t=J4jwrYEujPPkTWgttawrkQ https://twitter.com/SamRamani2/status/1517449956382191616?s=20&t=J4jwrYEujPPkTWgttawrkQ
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Apr 22, 2022 15:06
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cinci zoo sniper posted:That reloading pattern feels odd – why do they keep a shell sitting in that side shelf thing at all times, when it doesn't appear to be getting removed in the footage? The cannon loads it automatically from the shelf after firing. That part is changed a bit in the NG version. Here's a video from Denmark https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFSZigjP5ew But you can still see that it keeps a new shell on standby for use immediately after firing.
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Apr 22, 2022 15:10
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CommieGIR posted:
Updated OP.
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Apr 22, 2022 15:13
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KitConstantine posted:"Sir, Finland and Sweden are moving to join NATO even faster than planned! What should we do?" ok do it. send more boys and old men and lovely soviet era armor to die in foreign lands so your glorious tsar can tweek out on prednisone more. CommieGIR posted:Yeah a blockade of Ukraine when you don't even control most of the borders, even if you control their only sea ports, especially when all other countries are working with them logistically, is practically unworkable. Sure, the price increase for shipment will hurt a bit, but Ukraine still has most of their logistics intact and access to allies with ports. They are not in any position to blockade Ukraine. yeah its all insane coping and bullshit from the russian goverment now because they are afraid if putin gets mad they and their famlies end up dead, so they just escalate poo poo for an audience of one.
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Apr 22, 2022 15:13
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CommieGIR posted:Yeah a blockade of Ukraine when you don't even control most of the borders, even if you control their only sea ports, especially when all other countries are working with them logistically, is practically unworkable. Sure, the price increase for shipment will hurt a bit, but Ukraine still has most of their logistics intact and access to allies with ports. They are not in any position to blockade Ukraine. Not to mention, how many ships with long-range AA capabilities do they even have left? Seems like there would be other ways of solving this too.
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Apr 22, 2022 15:15
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alex314 posted:The thing about naval blockade to cut Ukraine from exporting grain is the trains are still going. So nothing (assuming they are allowed by Gov) stops Ukrainian companies from moving that freight to Romania. And then it becomes "do we want to start an incident with NATO". And even if Black Sea is completely hazardous for maritime trade Ukrainian companies can just haul this stuff to Greece, or Turkey. Ship it from there to Middle East clients. Or use Polish or German ports and sail from Baltic coast.. As long as Russian Airforce/Strategic Missile Command (or whatever they call it) is unable to shut down train movement they can just add some additional cost to the trade. And properly shutting down trains without total air control means using precious cruise missiles on those things instead of actual military targets. It would absolutely require "friendly help" from China. I'm not so sure that the sea blockade can be entirely bypassed overland. Ukraine exports are dominated by heavy commodities, wheat, steel, seed oils, corn. The more bulky the exports, the more sea transport wins out as the only practical solution. Now rail can transport a lot, I would have to look at the actual figures, but I'm a bit sceptical that rail can handle what sea did before. Of course, some can still be sold, but I fear as long as no international shipping can enter Odesa and Mykolaiv Ukraine's ability to export is significantly hobbled.
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Apr 22, 2022 15:16
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Spotted on NPR this morning - mass grave capable of holding up to 9,000 bodies outside Mariupol. gently caress. Just, gently caress.
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Apr 22, 2022 15:18
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KitConstantine posted:"Sir, Finland and Sweden are moving to join NATO even faster than planned! What should we do?" Even for saber rattling this is nonsensical; ‘If you join NATO we’ll do to you what we’re currently doing to Ukraine, which was not a member of NATO’
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Apr 22, 2022 15:21
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Antigravitas posted:FWIW, here's a sizzle reel of those Caesar artillery pieces. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLXAAVkg5TE should have called it Vercingetorix but i guess no one wants to be on the losing side
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Apr 22, 2022 15:23
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Dapper_Swindler posted:ok do it. send more boys and old men and lovely soviet era armor to die in foreign lands so your glorious tsar can tweek out on prednisone more. Putin has recently stated that he believes NATO will get bored/fed-up with supporting Ukraine soon, once NATO countries' citizens start suffering economic hardships due to all the trade embargoes. In his world, the strategy of starving Ukraine out to negotiate the current land loss is believable. Even with new arms deliveries, if Ukraine has no access to ports (and grain trains are easily targeted for bombing before they can make it to a NATO border) they have no export economy. If Putin thinks he can defend Donbas + the land bridge until the end of this year, then Ukraine will be forced to negotiate peace with the new battleline borders. Russian news is non-stop coverage of Tucker Carlson and other chuds in the US complaining about the gas prices and Biden's failure to keep prices low. Russians believe people in USA and Europe are already revolting against their gov't's because of Ukraine. So all they have to do is fight longer and the people of the world will rebel against their Nazi governments that are supporting Ukraine. Rad Russian fucked around with this message at 15:34 on Apr 22, 2022 |
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Apr 22, 2022 15:31
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KitConstantine posted:"Sir, Finland and Sweden are moving to join NATO even faster than planned! What should we do?" Them continuing the intimidation tack is completely baffling to me. They have to know just how counterproductive these constant threats are to their geopolitical strategy but they *keep* tripling down on the saber rattling. If they'd just mollified public sentiment in Finland and Sweden with security guarantees and statements saying "we hope for continued partnership, trade and cooperation with our Scandinavian friends" I really doubt their NATO membership would be basically a fait accompli like it is now.
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Apr 22, 2022 15:32
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Family Values posted:Even for saber rattling this is nonsensical; ‘If you join NATO we’ll do to you what we’re currently doing to Ukraine, which was not a member of NATO’ Yeah its essentially saying, "If you join this worldwide group of militarily superior nations guaranteeing full military support in the case of attack we will be forced to attack you"
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Apr 22, 2022 15:32
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Family Values posted:Even for saber rattling this is nonsensical; ‘If you join NATO we’ll do to you what we’re currently doing to Ukraine, which was not a member of NATO’ They are literally selling NATO to Finland and Sweden. What better salesman do you need. These guys have gone absolutely bonkers.
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Apr 22, 2022 15:36
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CommieGIR posted:They are literally selling NATO to Finland and Sweden. What better salesman do you need. PerilPastry posted:Them continuing the intimidation tack is completely baffling to me. They have to know just how counterproductive these constant threats are to their geopolitical strategy but they *keep* tripling down on the saber rattling. But anyway I don't think trying to woo the people would work that well when they just invaded another neighbor (again).
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Apr 22, 2022 15:37
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mobby_6kl posted:Maybe they understand it and are doing it intentionally to promote their "everyone is mean to poor encircled russia" narrative at home? I doubt that's worth it.
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Apr 22, 2022 15:38
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zone posted:jesus, if those losses are on point, they must have destroyed an entire platoon and its vehicular component So have the brainworm-infested people on Twitter already gone crazy over these Ukrainians using blackface, which adds to not only are they Nazis, but they’re also KKK Nazis?
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Apr 22, 2022 15:39
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mobby_6kl posted:Maybe they understand it and are doing it intentionally to promote their "everyone is mean to poor encircled russia" narrative at home? "actually we WANT nato troops 100km from St. Petersburg"
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Apr 22, 2022 15:40
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mobby_6kl posted:Maybe they understand it and are doing it intentionally to promote their "everyone is mean to poor encircled russia" narrative at home? Long-term it was good for Russia's geopolitics to keep them neutral, however, right now at this moment, it plays well with the domestic audience to show how NATO is "capturing and enslaving" more countries around Russia. It also helps explain Ukraine situation on state TV. Russia is being forced to defend itself against NATO, which was getting ready to invade Ukraine. Russians there had to be saved.
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Apr 22, 2022 15:40
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Rad Russian posted:Long-term it was good for Russia's geopolitics to keep them neutral, however, right now at this moment, it plays well with the domestic audience to show how NATO is "capturing and enslaving" more countries around Russia. It also helps explain Ukraine situation on state TV. Russia is being forced to defend itself against NATO, which was getting ready to invade Ukraine. Russians there had to be saved. Which pushes what endgame narrative? Eventual full mobilization?
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Apr 22, 2022 15:44
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Alan Smithee posted:should have called it Vercingetorix but i guess no one wants to be on the losing side They were lucky enough that they made an acronym that worked. The few things I've read about CEASAR's use indicate that the crews and their commanders like them a lot. The truck part should be fairly easy to keep up with, as both designs (a big Renault or a 6x6 Unimog) have parts available pretty much anywhere in the world. The UA's new DANAs should work out well, too. A proven gun on a fairly common truck in that part of the world (Tatra 800-series). That's two very mobile artillery systems, one in a NATO caliber and one in a WP/Russian caliber, gentley used and ready to go.
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Apr 22, 2022 15:45
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DandyLion posted:Which pushes what endgame narrative? Eventual full mobilization? Many experts seem to think Russia has nothing to mobilize with.
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Apr 22, 2022 15:48
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Alan Smithee posted:RORORO  ranbo das posted:The side shelf thing is the actual projectile. The reloading pattern appears to be the projectile gets loaded by the shelf loader thing, one person adds the propellant in after the shell, one person adds a new projectile to the loader, they fire. New projectile is loaded, new propellant, new projectile on deck. alex314 posted:It gets loaded in the gun, then the other dude pushes the propellant charge. You see some (probably) hydraulic hoses connected to that shelf that either assist or perform the loading. CommieGIR posted:Yeah the shelf basically holds the ready round for the next firing. So you load the first shell, powder bag, fire, and the next shell is already in the tray ready to go so you can fire faster. Antigravitas posted:The cannon loads it automatically from the shelf after firing. I see, cheers. French video just had editing that seems to never show the actual projectile being loaded in, only the propellant.
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Apr 22, 2022 15:50
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Saladman posted:So have the brainworm-infested people on Twitter already gone crazy over these Ukrainians using blackface, which adds to not only are they Nazis, but they’re also KKK Nazis? I refuse to engage the possibility this is anything but a deep level of irony. REFUSE
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Apr 22, 2022 15:54
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https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1517457629630455808 More T-72s for Ukraine, possibly.
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Apr 22, 2022 15:58
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