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Dred Cosmonaut posted:Whats an eva, just like... some freudian thing, or, um, Am I real? Aw hell, does the bus run through here? This and the alternate universe part of Episode 26 is why I can never hate Spike Spencer as Shinji.
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Apr 13, 2013 04:55
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loving hell, it's a military document in here. e: And the spoiler above me is the main dramatic juxtaposition of that character's arc in 2.22 and in this Eva thing as a whole. e: And Shinji is a bad person. Teenagers are assholes because they don't know any better a lot of the time. The moral tension I guess is how much Shinji reflects or does not reflect the adults who have become and stayed bad people. MadRhetoric fucked around with this message at 01:12 on Apr 29, 2013 |
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Apr 29, 2013 01:10
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Rebuild 3.33 is a movie made of episodes 20-24, with less bad stuff happening to Asuka and more timeskipping. There's the very beginning of EoE (not the hospital scene) at the very end, with Asuka filling in for Misato. The focus is obviously on episode 24, with the entire second act being about Kaworu. The timeskip is a flashy retake on Shinji's month missed to being inside of Eva-01, only there is no fanfare for him. There is only the blood of a whole lot of people. He is a stranger in a strange land; isolated by the problems and machinations of others. Misato's reaction to him is a more harsh version of the general not-giving-a-gently caress after Kaji died, but is in tune with her "us or them" mentality from when Kaworu bit it. Rei Q/Shiranami is straight up Rei III without the initial internal turmoil, as well as a starker reflection from the warmer Rei 2(.22). Rei Q herself has the existential confusion and despair of Rei III without a previous existence to draw from, which is arguably more terrifying. Instead of fear, she creates revulsion and obsession with the "proper" Rei, making a pretty blatant duality of Gendo and Shinji. The 0 Sync Rate moment was Asuka in 23, but it was also Shinji getting to sit and watch while Asuka got mindfucked. It's a stretch, but you can extrapolate the entire Unit 13 setup thing as a combination of Rei with Armisael and the Adam/Lilith switcheroo. Kaworu fills the exact same role he was in episode 24; the tragic, all-singing all-loving androgynous albino who gives Shinji that last cruel bit of hope. Since it's the part of the story a lot of Japanese people remember (apparently) it gets the most screentime. He also takes over for Misato and Kaji's attempts at shaping Shinji into something better; he even gets to show Shinji the skeletons in the closet. Unfortunately, Shinji's clinging to the past because it's all he has left; another parallel to Gendo. Ignoring the metatextual idea of Shinji/Anno being the creator/destroyer of anime and the folly of remaking something as big as Eva, there's a sense of the sickness of obsession with Shinji. That used to be Misato's thing, but she's too old for anime relevancy and it creates yet another parallel with Gendo. So yeah, this is the Shinji show, moreso than usual. Mari's there for levity, since everyone sucks a little harder than usual this time. She's also The Other, in the sense that she feels like she belongs in another anime. Like Asuka in the Action Arc did.
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Apr 30, 2013 00:50
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:I kind of see what you mean, but Misato lies to Shinji, using his insecurities to force him into motion, while Asuka is doing exactly the opposite -- forcing him to stand up and face reality, the better to shed his (incredibly dangerous) insecurities. So more of a contrast than a parallel, unless I'm seriously misjudging where it's going with that scene. They're both literally dragging Shinji into action out of a sense of military duty and motherly affection. I'm talking the very end, when Asuka salvages him from the plug and Misato getting Shinji to the Eva in EoE Tuxedo Catfish posted:Oh, another thing: I'm looking at this more tonally, but I disagree that Rei III didn't want to be human anymore. We don't see her enough to get a good idea, but her sense of agency and her fear of oblivion (something Rei II didn't have) are all too human. Rei III didn't have all the work Rei II did to be more personable (since Ayanami was always human, just weird and spergy), just imprints she didn't understand. Rei Q's whole thing is "I don't understand" and all she gets are imprints of Rei as concept. They both gain agency through a split from Gendo and a personal decision; Rei III wants to go to Shinji, Rei Q wants to go with Shinji (and Asuka). Same idea, different presentation. Like Rebuild in general. I also don't bite on Rei being in the tape recorder. She's probably having her own belly of the beast moment in EVA-01 if she's anywhere at all. You do have it right that Shinji doesn't want to own up to Rei being right there since she's spergier than usual. And Fuyutsuki pretty much only goes along with Gendo due to holding a torch for Yui and feeling he's too old and steeped in sin to change. There's probably a bit of the old teacher's pride in there too. e: Oh god I need that Eyeless, smirking Rei!Lilith head surrounded by grasping Eva hands as an avatar yesterday. That was my favorite image in the movie; it's just so blatant and morbid. Yes, that's it! Reach for your dead, sneering moe idol! Die for her and rot like she does! MadRhetoric fucked around with this message at 03:41 on Apr 30, 2013 |
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Apr 30, 2013 03:38
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notZaar posted:Nothing in this movie made any god drat sense and the writing was atrocious besides. And there weren't nearly enough action sequences to make up for this kind of wanking. Man, and I really liked what they were doing with the first two movies too. Hello and welcome to Neon Genesis Evangelion! Complementary shaving cream and Tang are in the Green room.
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Apr 30, 2013 03:44
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:No, you're right, that's what he says. Probably a little of column A, a little of column B. Good catch.
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Apr 30, 2013 16:22
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ImpAtom posted:There are interviews hinting at things in Eva 3.0 which make sense after the fact from before Rebuild 1.0 and 2.0 came out. It was pretty likely intended and the preview is just supposed to be Things that happened between the two movies. That or an elaborate joke. I'm going to be saying this a lot: a little of column A, a little of column B. I wonder if reading all this confused black bar poo poo and "getting it" is how tenured English professors feel. It's an incredibly smug feel. 
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Apr 30, 2013 22:06
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:Anyways, if you want to consider the series minus EoE a complete text and argue about that instead of the whole franchise, that's fine. If that were the case I would probably say that Evangelion doesn't mesh very well with Kabbalistic principles at all, because Shinji's journey consists of shedding attachments and becoming more and more miserable until an introspective, arguably mystical experience shows him the value of himself and others, with the final scene transforming (or perhaps revealing?) people who formerly hurt and confused him as well-wishing friends. But the shedding of attachments vis a vis The Case of X sequence also has him shed pretenses about his own misery. Think back to the "you can be cloudy on a rainy day" new age hippie bullshit thing. Mystical introspective experiences are a cornerstone of ascetic and hermetic forms of worship as well. Where Abalone's logic falls apart is that Shinji's final affirmation is one of discovering self-love, which kind of shits on the Kabbalistic idea of Shinji achieving oneness with God through submission to/subsumption by God. The entire set of endings (Death included) are a confused, roiling mass of idea and emotion that comes from it being a live work. By the time EoE rolled around, Eva had an active, almost oppressive metatext surrounding it thanks to it blowing up all ages and otaku latching onto it like diseased lampreys. There was a lot to say and not enough time or focus or sanity to say it in full, so it ended up being something that you, the viewer, speak for. Everyone has their own opinion of what it means and how things fit or don't fit; it is almost entirely metatext. That's what makes it so fun and that's what makes the Rebuilds so interesting; they can be seen as self-made second order simulacra (or a Stand Alone Complex) for Eva as a whole. drat hard to understand if you don't care about that sort of tenured literature professor poo poo and just want to see mom robots fight, though. Although it is funny that the character who exists solely for the mom robots fighting (Mari) is disliked or seen as pointless so often. As a postmodernist, I also really hate people trotting out DotA as a reason to completely ignore the author; all Death of the Author means is that the Author isn't the sole arbiter of the correct reading of the text. The Author is "dead" inasmuch as the single defining idea of Text is "dead". The Author is but one lens or aspect of the metatext that colors the overall idea of the work. An idea is shaped by the person who expresses it and the medium it is expressed in, just as the meaning of the text is shaped by the person who reads it and the method of critique it is viewed under. Besides, Anno is too bugfuck crazy to ignore, especially when the metatext points to aspects of the work being reflections of the man's own psyche. e: And you are a bad person Bro Enlai. You are terrible and you should feel terrible, but that won't stop me from laughing. MadRhetoric fucked around with this message at 02:42 on May 3, 2013 |
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May 3, 2013 02:38
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:I really wish my undergrad program hadn't been so light on theory (and that I had the resources to go back to school) because every time you post something like this I have this nagging little doubt as to whether my disagreement stems from philosophical differences or just ignorance. You have a good mind for this stuff and make cogent points; I just see things differently. I look at things through different lenses (or different versions of the same 'postmodern' lense) so of course we're going to use the tools differently. To be perfectly honest, I learned 90% of my postmodernist/deconstructionist poo poo from Internet self study, so don't look to me as some expert on the field. V  VAnd I'd say that in actively avoiding answers and letting the work and his colleagues speak for him, Anno has made a simulacrum of himself. He's like an anime Andy Warhol, down to the mainstreaming of "meaningless" images.
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May 3, 2013 22:42
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Armisael, Arael, Kaworu and Leliel all could be seen as the Angels attempting to understand the Lilim. Straightforward destruction didn't work so good for anyone but Zeruel, but the attempts to understand, to connect and intermingle, do the most damage. Remember, Leilel is the first Angel we get the weird colors and drugs sequences with, as well as the first one to really shake Asuka and Misato. Arael and Armisael are obvious, and Kaworu breaks Shinji's heart and/or will to live (although Misato helps). It's hedgehogs and poo poo. e: I don't think people appreciate this enough. 
MadRhetoric fucked around with this message at 01:36 on May 17, 2013 |
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May 17, 2013 01:21
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cafel posted:I don't appreciate it at all, it's never been a line of criticism I understood. 'You liked this series and later on in life you still like it!' I still play baseball, hike and really enjoy Catch 22 even though I was introduced to all those things fifteen years or more ago and no one would criticizes me for that. I can understand noting that people get too emotionally attached to the series, or let it spill over into their lives, but that seems different then just following a series over the years. Maybe it's because I was satisfied with the TV show and everything else has just been 'extra' for me, but I don't feel like there's any larger point to the fifteen years thing. It's been a long, strange, frustrating, amazing trip; as well as noting the fanbase has been running in circles about the same things over and over. It's funny man, chill.
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May 17, 2013 12:33
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The long and short of it is, as long as it makes sense to you and comes from watching the show, whatever you think the thing is supposed to mean, it means. Outside of the basic skeleton of the motivations (Gendo wants wife, SELEE want apotheosis and/or oblivion, Yui wants to be the giant robot, everybody is desperate for affection) the rest is mostly filling in the blanks with personal readings based on internal lenses, sperg, and an understanding of ~Japanese Culture~.
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May 19, 2013 04:00
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Captain Invictus posted:I would genuinely want to see this. I have an almost Koos-level obsession with getting SMG to talk about Evangelion. It would be glorious. The Riddle of Feel posted:There's short bits in the TV ending that suggest that the background story- the invasion of Nerv, the MPE battle, etc. were planned, but EoE reflects a variation on Shinji's story, specifically. Eh, I'll bite. In my personal opinion, EoE abandons the attempt at resolving the themes that the series sets up in an attempt to literally "end" the thing that is Eva. The theme, at least as I see it, is the importance of communication; internal and external. Communication kills, it hurts, it betrays, but it's necessary. Bringing about perfect communication is the surface ideal of Instrumentality until it shifts into oblivion halfway through the series. The last two episodes are all about perfect communication. They're communicating with each other, with themselves, and with real people. The characters are working through their issues vis a vis a shattered fourth wall Instrumentality and the creators working through the issues of making Eva vis a vis a purposefully desperate projection of the show's core. It's not like there isn't precedent for that sort of thing with GAINAX; they made Gunbuster's ending more expensive to do the black and white sequences. With Eva, the cases and the weird animation bits are an explanation of what is, what was and what could have been to both the audience, the characters and themselves. It's active deconstruction of itself that doesn't come off as completely masturbatory (to me). That's like performing successful open heart surgery on yourself and I will always respect it for that. EoE, on the other hand, is a well-put together movie, but it is a middle finger to the fans. Especially taking into account some of the stuff that got cut out. Since the message and the messengers are also fans, it feels like a middle finger to itself. The imagery dances on the line between shocking and puerile (it is way too easy to joke about the hospital scene and the sexual allusions within Instrumentality). It also doesn't really say anything that the series didn't, just harsher and with ultrasex/hyperviolence. The main thing that separates it from the end of the series is the last scene and it basically exists in a vacuum. It's an amazing shot in a vacuum and people have probably driven themselves mad trying to justify it with their own views of Eva and the series as a whole, but to me, it isn't mature. It isn't realistic. It's just sort of there. It's sort of there because Shinji clutching Rei's severed arm was too mean-spirited and Yukio Okamura couldn't hit the line "As if I'd be killed by the likes of you" well enough to satisfy Anno. So that scene is a compromise. A good enough. And "good enough" isn't good enough when it's the capital-E End of Evangelion. Saying that's mature always feels like conflating "edgy" or "grim" with mature to me. Any teenager can see and say the world sucks, it takes deftness and maturity to explore, acknowledge and move past that.
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May 27, 2013 05:03
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On the manga: If you change your worldview and get out of a lovely situation, it can be as if it never existed in the first place. Sadamoto just took that to its most (il)logical conclusion. And Abenobashi end is about as weird and cop-outish as Congratulations or Kimochi warui depending on how you look at it. You either throw away the pathos or you throw away the character development or you throw away both. I guess the moral of the story is Evangelion endings will always be disappointing. Or anything that takes eighteen goddamned years to end is going to end with a whimper. I wouldn't get your hopes up for 4.0.
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Jun 4, 2013 03:35
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Phobophilia posted:Speaking of cash, wouldn't the Evangelion series have done worse if there wasn't a constant buzz and gnashing of teeth and semi-canon detail-filling from other writers due to the 25/26 and the EoE endings? Nah, because that's not the reason Eva is Gundam's edgy younger brother in the Japanese hierarchy of sci-fi works. It's there because the characters became archetypical and it was one of those mass-market shows that was unabashedly "adult" instead of "adult" in a backhanded/miserable way (see: Tomino, Yoshiyuki) or in a puerile way (see: 80's OVA scene, entirety of). Utena is like this too, but more fabulous and equal parts more restrained and more madcap loving nuts.
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Jun 5, 2013 01:01
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Tiffany Grant is a few points short of a working sync ratio, yeah. For all intents and purposes, in her world she is Asuka.
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Jun 5, 2013 02:33
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Gaseous Snake posted:I can almost imagine Robin Williams trying to explain to the kid how hosed up the Mass Production Eva actually is then giving up and going "just say he's a good guy who gives a gently caress" Or he just really doesn't like Asuka.
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Jun 10, 2013 03:17
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Dred Cosmonaut posted:
Holy poo poo that is amazing. And I still feel all the continuity hints are metatexual bits of fanservice moreso than confirmation of repetition. It's a remake on multiple levels.
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Jun 14, 2013 22:25
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AmiYumi posted:There've been a number of Evangelion games over the past couple years, actually; it's just that most of them are Pachinko, one was a rhythym game, and the rest were upgraded ports of PS2 games. Unit 13 gets its Bits from one of the Evas in Battle Orchestra, actually.
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Jun 17, 2013 16:00
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Smoking Crow posted:Wait, so that was on purpose? I thought that EVA had some weird out of place fan service, but I didn't think it went that far. In that case, this is the best calculated gently caress You in anime history. Awesome The sequence in question is supposed to be a joke; it's an obvious dig at anime at the time. The rest of his post in relation to the series as a whole is bullshit, but it's Eva; interpret it however makes you happy.
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Jun 23, 2013 11:33
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Zewle posted:These rebuild movies feel kind of like schlock that exist solely as a cash-in, this feels almost like parody. 3.3 Actually feels like straight up fanfiction. The setting and everything is so over the top and the narrative doesn't make sense outside of a remix/rehash of eva. This is like the anime equivalent of the star wars prequels, its just a bunch of visual cues to throw a bone to fans, and ridiculous roller coaster visuals to make up for lack of writing. This feels like a ridiculous spectacle devoid of substance. Yeah, sure, whatever. Maaya Sakamoto said it after doing VA work for Mari and the Curse of Eva being a minor plot point in 3.X does hint at a metatextual drive for self-reflexive self-destruction. At least the Rebuild movies firmly seem to exist in their own filmic bubble instead of crowding itself into continuity proper. Szmitten: The fact that people think it is subversive when it's even more cravenly fandom self-aggrandizing than both Evas (which is no mean feat) is probably why. Like the difference between "true" punk and mallpunk. It hits the notes, the winks and the nods, but it doesn't have the same soul. Like Zewle is saying about the Rebuilds. So it's personal sentiment that doesn't really matter in the long run when both works of fiction are keenly marketed product directed at a very specific subset of mass media culture that takes poo poo way too seriously. e: When the Rebuilds are done, it is my sincerest wish that someone gives them the Plinkett Review treatment: good or bad. MadRhetoric fucked around with this message at 21:25 on Jun 28, 2013 |
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Jun 28, 2013 21:21
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Phobophilia posted:So what you're saying is 4.0 will be the EoE to 3.0's 25/26? Fan reaction wise, probably. Setup wise, most definitely. You even have Shinji completely inert with despair being dragged bodily along to the next plot point by his only remaining emotional anchor.
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Jun 30, 2013 03:54
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House Louse posted:What, weren't Kaji, Misato, and Ritsuko enough? Anyway, those aren't the three adjectives that leap to my mind when I think of Mari... how about conspiring, exhibitionist, berserker? Misato spent her teenage years catatonic, Ritsuko is in love with the man who hosed her mother and Kaji has spy problems/doesn't feel he deserves happiness (in the manga). The only healthy characters in Eva are the side characters. And PenPen.
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Jul 1, 2013 01:54
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Gatts posted:PenPen is Misato's vibrator in the rebuild? Paging Dr. Freud.
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Jul 7, 2013 17:51
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Mezzanine posted:All of the characters have katakana given names. AFAIK there's never been official kanji for any of them, even though they're all common Japanese names (even Asuka and Mari With Asuka and Mari, it's because they're vaguely foreign. With Shinji and Rei and all, it's so people don't read into name meanings. Especially with Rei, since her name can be read in a whole lot of portentous ways.
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Jul 24, 2013 05:07
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:You're misreading it slightly -- Rei, Shinji, Asuka, and Touji are the four Children, so they're grouped together. PenPen is the key to everything  But yeah, the Children are grouped together and the unimportant school kids are grouped together; Touji is off center because he happens to be both.
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Jul 31, 2013 02:40
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Paracelsus posted:The entry plug can be seen as both! Giant tampon
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Aug 2, 2013 17:53
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:I know applying Christian logic to Evangelion gets people panties in a twist*, but one easy take on this would be that Kaworu simply has no concept of sin, no knowledge of good and evil. Only instead of knowledge enabling evil as it does in Genesis, Evangelion reverses it to make goodness impossible without knowledge -- because "love without actual goodness" seems like a pretty apt description of everything Kaworu does to me. Not to mention his death is like original sin in reverse, ensuring the extinction of his own race (which is where he differs from a Christ figure) but at the same time redeeming them. Did BrandorKP hack your account, Tux?  And going off the conceit that every Angel is a prototype for a singular type of Adamic being as opposed to a homogenous group (which is somewhere in that game material), how is Kaworu redeeming Angelkind in his death? All the other Angels save humanity have failed up to that point, and Kaworu technically fails as well in getting duped by Lilith being in the basement and ADAM being in Gendo's wanking hand instead of vice versa. And Tabris is the Angel of Free Will. Sacrificing himself on the altar of Shinji's love and hurt is the ultimate act of free will. Shinji feels he's been betrayed because Kaworu was nice to him, but since Kaworu doesn't actually go through with erasing mankind, it's not a full betrayal. Even if you believe it is, Shinji is willing to jump right back into his (giant, naked) arms to kick off pre-Instrumentality in EoE.
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Aug 6, 2013 18:54
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A Pinball Wizard posted:Fake edit: Guys, I think I just realized Evangelion makes no sense Neither does postmodern thought as a whole, which Eva is almost as heavily influenced by as Japanese nerd poo poo. Buckle up. Spiritus Nox posted:I've always been of the opinion that Eva is simultaneously a fascinating and at times profound piece of art; and a pandering, half-conceived, loving disaster. I see no contradiction, really. If Shinji's story speaks to you, then it's art. If it doesn't it's schlock. These are both easily defensible positions. It is fascinating and profound in its hosed-uppedness. Art through adversity, as it were. Note that the episodes where Anno has it together mentally are the most dark and mean-spirited, while the thematically and narratively straightforward earlier episodes are both generally ignored and come from the man's deep depression. Tuxedo Catfish posted:Kaworu is the last Angel, but he's also Adam, the progenitor of the other Angels. That moment in Terminal Dogma is his last chance to either realize the goal that every Angel strove for (which would have included the extinction of mankind) or to abandon their cause out of love for humanity. Maybe "redeeming" is too strong a word, but I think it's reasonable to say that Kaworu is acting for all Angel-kind when he lets himself die. Only in Rebuild is he the true Alpha and Omega. In the series and the manga he is of Adam but he is not completely Adam. The important part of Adam is the embryo in Gendo's wanking hand. When he says he and Ayanami are the same, he means it on a couple of levels: both tools for shady powers, both tangibly alien and both children of Adam and Lilith. I would also argue that Kaworu is acting for himself and his love for Shinji when he lets himself die, given free will is his shtick. Even if you see his act as a redemptive one, it gets pissed all over not long afterward. Remember: humanity is the Eighteenth Angel and they undo all that hard work. quote:I agree with all of this and don't think it contradicts what I'm saying, except for the last sentence. Shinji is forcibly led to the cross: the moment of Instrumentality is the moment at which his personal agency has reached its nadir. A friend of mine likes to describe EoE as "Shinji watching Lovecraftian entities fornicating while disguised as his best friends," and while I take a slightly less bleak view of the film than he does, I don't remember anything that suggests he was like "okay let's do this apocalypse" until he tells Lilith/Rei to make everyone die. The scenes directly after he gets melty hugs from Giant Naked Kaworu show him disgusted by the sexuality of his caretaker, willing to angrily destroy what he worked so hard to create, yelling at the Woman as Other because she isn't clear and won't put out, get rejected by every woman in the world and go completely bugfuck only to get rejected again by his primary fetish of stability. And then choke the poo poo out of her to trigger the "gently caress it, everyone dies" movement. He doesn't actively want everyone to die yet because outside of the moments where he jacks off to Asuka, then wants to save Asuka, he doesn't do anything. He's near catatonic, then wracked with grief. And then he starts screaming. Your friend's on the money: just replace "his best friends" with "the clone of his mom he's kind of hot for".
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Aug 7, 2013 05:38
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Paracelsus posted:The early episodes are fine, it's the early-middle ones (Jet Alone through Sahaquiel) that drag and have questionable Angel design. Matariel was basically an Angel that only stood a chance if the Evas couldn't deploy for a few hours for reasons. The early-middle ones introduce Asuka as a character, show Shinji's competence and has the single most fun part of the series. Dance Like You Want To Win is the show's entire Shinji/Asuka dynamic in microcosm. also it has an inazuma kick
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Aug 8, 2013 01:47
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Phobophilia posted:I have 100% confidence that 4.0 will leave a billion questions unanswered and impossible to answer. And we wouldn't want it any other way. The English alternate universe section is the single greatest achievement of the dub.
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Aug 9, 2013 14:21
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jvempire posted:I don't feel like it's the same thing for Shinji, as he isn't really obsessive and it seems more of an irony than a lesson. Like in 2.0 Shinji saves Rei, who is someone that he cares about. That's a good thing to do, saving a friend, but it just so happens that doing this causes Third Impact. Same thing in 3.0, Kaworu tells Shinji that he can redo this mistake and Shinji genuinely believes this. But yet again it just so happens that it starts another Impact. Note that Shinji does this when the people he wants to save specifically tell him not to multiple times.
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Aug 13, 2013 02:45
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Close to, but not as amazing as that limited run of Eva champagne with diamond-encrusted bottles. And Kensuke's kind of a dick, Tux. He's just ultimately unimportant in the grand scheme of things. Like otaku. Also Shinji as author surrogate, buttmad from the poor reaction to the ending being a catalyst for EoE, etc., etc.
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Aug 20, 2013 07:23
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:What did Kensuke ever do besides maybe giving Asuka the stinkeye, once, out of solidarity with Touji? He's pissy about Shinji getting attention for being an Eva pilot, lives in his own little world behind the Kino-eye of his camcorder and is hilariously, ironically jealous and catty about Touji getting to pilot. He's also basically Milhouse to Touji and Shinji.
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Aug 20, 2013 19:34
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Phobophilia posted:Evangelion was about some depressed teenager growing and learning to take control of his life despite terrors and setbacks, for about 20 episodes, or for 90% of the 2nd rebuild, then it becomes a nihilistic postmodern orgy of excess. And Rebuild is a self-reflexive postmodern orgy of excess which discards the nihilism for a death urge towards and simulation of the self that existed. This poo poo would blow Eco's mind. Death has a vaguely neat meta-narrative and the best description of Asuka ever, but it's probably the "least" essential. It's pretty for the time, tho.
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Aug 22, 2013 04:19
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A Pinball Wizard posted:
4koma Translation: EVA-01: *SIGH* Panel 1: Misato: You won't have to do anything ever again, Shinji. Panel 2: Sakura: Whatever you do, don't pilot Eva! Panel 3: Shinji: Pilot Eva? But Dad...No, it's nothing. Panel 4: Shinji: Good Grief...
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Aug 24, 2013 04:19
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Neon Genesis Evangelion: I Feel Sick Don't be talking poo poo about the OG low effort Eva parody, Tux.
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Aug 26, 2013 19:35
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:See this guy gets it. They're oppositional but not exclusive. EoE is about falling apart. The imagery it gives you are breakdowns, decay, death, blood, a forcible return to base components, a collapse of illusions, of self, of hope. EoTV is also about falling apart, but it is about the structures that hurt and separate us falling apart. Hence, the lonely sound stage shattering into CONGRATULATIONS. EoE and EoTV are fundamentally thematically different and reach different answers to the same question. The bits they share (Shinji facing his demons, the alternate reality part) express different concepts and come to different conclusions. Even the way they play out are completely at odds: EoTV is a Brectian play between the Greek Chorus/the viewer and the characters/GAINAX that ends with an acceptance of other people and life affirmation. EoE is an expressionist cry of Freudian sexual horror that ends with release, desolation and isolation. Even Yui/Rei's big "everyone can come back if they want to" requires a splitting of the breast, if it works like it did with Shinji. It's severance, ending, finality. A death of the utopic spirit because life is pain, unity is misery and people are assholes. It's what happens when the vox populi tell a deeply depressed man to take his absolution and shove it up his rear end. Short and sweet version: EoE having an ultimately upbeat message is not true. It's necessary to believe for the catharsis of the sane, but it's a lie. EoTV is legit upbeat, but it doesn't have the same grittiness so it's not as cool. MadRhetoric fucked around with this message at 07:15 on Sep 24, 2013 |
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Sep 24, 2013 07:10
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Zeruel posted:Well for those of us who were hoping Unit 2+8 wasn't going to happen... It's a strong, independent 60 meter tall Hakkaider that don't need no Shinji.  The more gonzo and whacked-out Rebuild gets, the more I love it. Mari was crossing the Rubicon, the destruction of old Eva is truly at hand. Tux: The mixed-positive reading of EoE relies on the words of an unreliable woman who wanted to be a giant robot and a kid who's problem is isolationism solving his problems by isolating himself. It's also completely tonally blind to 85 percent of the movie and relies on the TV series to give it metatextual solidity. The only "solid" reading is the one provided by the co-author (in that it's ultimately meaningless, go fanwank something) and given Death of the Author that reading can't be used as a deciding factor. e: The least bad choice is still bad, Tux. There is no real such thing as a lesser evil. MadRhetoric fucked around with this message at 01:46 on Sep 25, 2013 |
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Sep 25, 2013 01:40
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:Well, yes, absolutely. I don't deny that, because I view the entire run -- 25+26+EoE included -- as a single entity, and think that any reading of Evangelion has to encompass both. I don't recognize a break in the work until Rebuild, and even Rebuild is more like an old testament / new testament divide. I don't disagree with you on that aspect, but it is a lot easier to see a negative reading of EoE with or without EoTV than it is to garner a separate mixed-positive reading of EoE alone or even a negative reading of EoTV tainted by a reading of EoE. Even if you believe it's ultimately hopeful-ish, there is a lot of pain in EoE. The best you can sorta hope for is Shinji and Asuka coming out of the ordeal with the belief that "maybe everything isn't hopeless bullshit". That's only positive when you're depressed enough to think that everything is hopeless bullshit. So it's an intratextual positive (assuming Shinji not breaking Asuka's neck was an act of compassion), but it's the blackest kind of positive. You've got an interesting way of looking at that scene; the way I see it is both of them are too broken/emotionally raw to act. Asuka just sort of dead-fish hands Shinji and Shinji doesn't strangle Asuka with the same verve he did in the Instrumentality sequence. I, for one, also welcome our new orange-flavored SEELE overlords. quote:That's a philosophical difference between you and me which is probably outside the context of this thread. v Eh, that's a copout. Your reading is perfectly valid, I want to see if you can convince me of it. Especially since I was right about Post-Madokami Homura wanting to put a gun to head in MadoMagi and I sperg harder about Eva than I do Madoka.quote:Also, if Rebuild is a literal sequel to EoE then there's still a chance for triumph and setting all things right anyways. And if it isn't, we'll always have
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Sep 25, 2013 01:59
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