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cgfreak
Jan 2, 2013
The HxH vibes on this just keep getting stronger and I'm all here for it.

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cgfreak
Jan 2, 2013


So it's Yusuke, but he looks like Kuwabara. :allears:

cgfreak
Jan 2, 2013
Jujutsu continues to have the best, most visceral fight scenes. Can't wait to see this entire arc in motion.

cgfreak
Jan 2, 2013

EmmyOk posted:

I love that Sukuna isn't just the sephiroth style of ancient baddy archly monologuing. He's also a massive bitch and incredibly petty at all times.

One thing I love soooo much about this manga is Sukuna. There's dozens of villains out there whose whole schtick is just causing as much chaos and damage as possible and just being evil for the sake of being evil and it almost always feels rote and cliché. But Sukuna? I loving despise Sukuna, I wanna see his poo poo get kicked in so bad because he just deserves it so drat bad. And tbh I don't exactly comprehend how exactly Gege pulled it off either, because when I think about it rationally I can't really think of a real objective reason that sets him apart from the rest of the realm of Super Evil Baddies but he's just so... convincingly written as this entity consisting entirely of spite and malice. It's like he's a force of nature more than anything (which fits in amazingly well with the Jujutsu theme of baddies as forces of nature of course). So well done.

cgfreak
Jan 2, 2013
https://onepiecechapters.com/chapters/7341/jujutsu-kaisen-chapter-220?&date=14-4-2023-12

Very good chappy. Gege's had bumps along the way but this makes me feel they're gonna make it all fit together very neatly.

cgfreak
Jan 2, 2013
So this is essentilly just the two most powerful beings in the world agreeing to try and simply punch the other into a fine mist because their bags of tricks are just gonna keep cancelling out each other forever?

Exquisite.

cgfreak
Jan 2, 2013

Lamebot posted:

I'm even more convinced Kenjaku is gonna swoop in and absorb Sukuna now that he's temporarily depowered. Also it would be a possible way for megumi to get out of this mess alive

Could he even do that? Sukuna is not actually a curse or a vengeful spiritor whatever, right?

cgfreak
Jan 2, 2013
What's this unlimited hollow Gojo is talking about, have we seen it before?

Is he gonna blast them all with infinite Purples inside Infinite Void or something?

cgfreak
Jan 2, 2013

Electric Phantasm posted:

Like if Gojo couldn't push Sukuna to go all out, then who can? And who can actually stop him?

Gonna laugh my rear end off when Sukuna simply gets taken out by Judgeman taking away his CT combined with Yuji beating the poo poo out of him

i don't know why but for some reason it would seem so fitting for this series if the arrogance and haughtiness would end up being taken out by a combo of a 15-year old without a technique and a dude who learned about cursed technique all of 5 minutes ago

cgfreak
Jan 2, 2013

Ghosthotel posted:

another big problem I have with how this went down:

Lots of folks ITT and elsewhere were saying Gojo had to die because there would be no tension otherwise but we're now at the opposite end of the spectrum where Sukuna has a reality-cutting inifinite range (potentially?) mind blade and his death by the extended crew is either inevitable so he can never use it again or one of the cast is about to have an extremely absurd level up.
One of the things i really like about jjk is that it doesn't really do straight x is stronger than y power levels. Judgeman could still take away Sukuna's CT and Deadly Sentencing forbids any violence - and I doubt Sukuna is getting out of a guilty verdict. There's also a guy running around who could conceivably kill Sukuna by thinking "lol wouldn't it be funny if the king of curses died by tripping and breaking his neck? So anticlimactic haha". I'm sure there's plenty of options.

People seem to be of the opinion that this is very unsatisfying narratively but i'm completely of the other opinion. I feel this way of telling things worked extremely effectively. Would a panel or 2 of gojo getting slashed in half really make that much of a difference? The way it's portrayed here really help sells the fact that all of this happened in the blink of an eye, and nobody saw it coming. Really cool and brave storytelling by gege imho.

cgfreak
Jan 2, 2013

Scallop Eyes posted:

Considering there's like 10 people waiting to fight Sukuna, it's either gonna be a cool 1vs many people fight, or several quick 1v1's . I honestly have 0 faith in Kashimo or Gege delivering in this next fight , I expect him to get no-sold immediately.

It's pretty clear to me that video games are also a big influence on Gege's writing - Mahoraga has always struck me as such a video gamey concept for one - and Sukuna is just essentially doing a boss rush here. Idk why but it kinda tickles my funny bone

cgfreak
Jan 2, 2013

Fair Bear Maiden posted:

It's difficult to buy when just last chapter we've got a whole spiel about how a sorcerer can see the ignition moment of a cursed technique, how Gojo's been repeatedly mentioned as extremely observant and also has six eyes (which have never been fully explained, but eh) and Sukuna was low in terms of cursed technique output to the point that *even in this chapter* he still hasn't regenerated his hand and eye.

It's just a mess.

I think the entire point was that Sukuna waited until Gojo thought he had it in the bag to unleash his Cleave That Cleaves Reality Itself. He tanked that poo poo on purpose to lure him into a false sense of security because he knew he won as soon as Mahoraga did the second adaptation.

cgfreak
Jan 2, 2013
One thing I don't see mentioned anywhere is that Gojo was also kind of fighting with one hand tied behind his back? His main objective was saving Megumi, not winning. He didn't just want to defeat Sukuna, he wanted to defeat him so barely he could still expel Sukuna's soul while leaving Megumi's intact and also not completely obliterate the body or whatever.

That's gotta be pretty tough for a guy who spent his entire career dropping nothing but +9999 spirit bombs.

cgfreak
Jan 2, 2013
I went and compared a bit and Gege did some pretty neat foreshadowing about Mahoraga's second cleave adaptation.



This is Sukuna's first cleave in the battle. You can tell it cut a chunk out of the building but there's still a details and you can see the rest of the building. Like it was a projectile that missed and did colleteral damage.



This is Mahoraga's second cleave. It looks completely different. No more details, just a black void, like everything that used to occupy that space has now been erased.

Cool stuff.

cgfreak
Jan 2, 2013
Hell, we don't even know if they're a he or a she :v:

(or anything in between or outside that binary)

cgfreak
Jan 2, 2013

Collapsing Farts posted:

A powerful fightman-antagonist in a fightmanga is pretty crucial in my opinion. Where a lot of shonen comics falter is how the bad guy is ultimately defeated.

But yeah, so far Sukuna has only defeated one important character and that was Gojo (and it was an extremely hardfought and awesome fight). The main protagonist hasnt even gotten his fight against the main bad guy and people are already whining because side characters are dying? At least let the Protagonist and Antagonist fight before we call everything BS

Also:

Yeah I'm in the same boat here. Madara/AFO were annoying as hell fights because they took literal years and the whole thing was interspersed with annoying sideplots/-fights I didn't give a poo poo about because the author was obsessed with giving every single drat character their own Big Fighting Moment.

Here we just got Gojo and Sukuna fighting the sickest battle ever and then a side character getting instantly wasted. It doesn't feel similar to me at all.

I'm still holding out hope for Nobara still being alive, Yuji doing a bodyswitch with Sukuna, Nobara nailing Yuji/Sukuna with resonance, Megumi gets his body back, Yuji dies surrounded by his loved ones like the story established from the very beginning. It'd be a bittersweet but fitting and deserved ending imo.

cgfreak
Jan 2, 2013

The Notorious ZSB posted:

Naruto was fine, like many shounen properties it went longer than it needed to and had to invent increasingly insane villains to match the heroes' prowess, but it was solid shounen. Bleach failed miserably and JJK is treading dangerously close to those waters.

I feel this unnecessarily harsh but it's personal opinion or course. I'm still hype for JJK chapters and am really curious as to how Gege wants to finish this because I don't really have a clue where they're going and that's exciting in and of itself.

The "okay i'm completely checked out, just finish it already so it's over and he can rest" anologue to Bleach in 2023 is definitely MHA to me. Just like Bleach it started out really exciting with a world you want to learn a lot more about, then it got lost in power levels, laser spam and completely nonsensical/unfinished plots. Such a shame.

cgfreak
Jan 2, 2013
I was bummed out about Yuki as well but at least she got a really cool battle that was well drawn and easy to follow. Stars and Stripes was just an incomprehensible mess of squiggly lines. Like both of these are battle mangas and i feel the worst sin a battle manga can commit is making the battles themselves lovely and hard to follow regardless of what happens narratively. And aside from the OFA final stand that's going on now like every single battle in MHA the last 2 or so years has just been garbage imo.

cgfreak
Jan 2, 2013
JJK has always been more vibes-based to me rather than having everything fit together neatly and having it rhyme like poetry.

I'm sort of reminded of the Kurama vs Elder Toguro fight in YYH. I remember watching it with my brother and him being disappointed because Kurama just happened to have an ability that perfectly countered him and it was never set up before, and it just didn't make sense for him narratively, it wasn't neat enough. Whereas I was all whoa this was loving badass also it does make sense that Kurama would have an ability like this right? Why would the writer have any need to dangle the Chekov's gun in front of your face like that?

Come to think of it, the entire YYH final arc was like this as well. You're almost expecting this big final confrontation between Yusuke and the demon lords but one of them dies before the entire thing begins and the rest don't even make it to the final. Now this final arc isn't exactly remembered fondly but i'm one of those weirdoes who absolutely adored it :v: it really made me think about storytelling in general, like why would there be any absolute need for the good guy and the bad guy to have this big final confrontation and now everything is neatly wrapped up with a bow on top, not a single plot thread left unresolved. Isn't that all just a bit... too neat?

Not everything needs a setup and a payoff. Sometimes things are just random and messy. That's not necessarily a failure on the part of the writer and definitely not if it's a thing they set out to do in the first place, and I absolutely feel like this is a thing Gege set out to do.

(I still rate YYH far higher than JJK, for what it's worth.)

cgfreak
Jan 2, 2013

ImpAtom posted:

See, I agree with you on YYH. I actually feel like the last arc is perfectly fine even if it is rushed and I really like where it goes.

My disagreement is that I don't think it fails to pay off what it set up narratively. It just rushes through it, which I think is more of the criticism. YYH, pretty much from the start, positions Yusuke as someone who is a fight-loving delinquent whose role in the story is being annoyed/angry at the status quo. It becomes a lot more clear once he comes back to life and the story starts focusing on the idea of what really defines a human or a demon and the morality of everyone involved. (Which is why the people behind the throne in the story become exclusively human characters, either in the form of them being funded by humans, being ex-humans, or so-on.) The final arc, rushed as it is, focuses on the idea that demons are not inherently evil, bad or cruel but that they are in situations that demand it, and Yusuke comes up with a way to break that cycle because he recognizes it loving sucks.

He also starts a fighting tournament because fighting is fun to him but he pretty explicitly comes down on the side of fighting being fun to him most when it isn't life or death. He enjoys fighting dangerous people but he doesn't actually want to fight to the death, he just wants to fight and he respects people who don't. Hein, Kurama and to a lesser extent Kuwabara also all find their own specific goals and in the case of all of them it is finding something besides just fighting. Hein learns to let go of his hatred and anger and become more than he was born to be, Kurama learns to balance his demon and human parts, and Kuwabara does the *loving cool* plot beat of going "Sorry Yusuke, but I'm actually more interested in going to school" and Yusuke's response is to be genuinely happy for him and cheer him on.

They don't close every single plot hole and they absolutely rush through some but the vibes based elements work because they are coherent paths for the characters who we have been following through the entire series. It subverts the ideas of a shonen series (the big epic superfight is entirely offscreen, which owns) but it follows a coherent path.

This is definitely a good point, and YYH does pull the payoff better than JJK does (so far). But JJK also isn't over yet and could very well still stick the landing. I do feel Gege is working towards some sort of resolution, and isn't just chucking random poo poo at the wall to see what sticks - though I did feel they were doing that earlier with the whole weird American soldier subplot and all that jazz. But it feels like they refound their footing to me.

I still stand by my original point that JJK is more vibes-based than plot-based, and is similar to YYH in that extent. And it's fine if that way of storytelling isn't everyone cup of tea, but that doesn't have to mean it's bad storytelling.

I also agree with you that Kuwabara going all "Yusuke my dude I love you but I need to get back to school my man" is an incredible plot beat :v:

cgfreak
Jan 2, 2013
Takaba winning would be funny, but the funniest possible outcome would be Kenjaku thinking "whoa this CT is loving busted I want this body", him body hopping to Takaba and then realizing the technique doesn't work at will :allears:

cgfreak
Jan 2, 2013

Brought To You By posted:

You joke, but the story did establish that Todo can still use Boogie Woogie so long as he can make his hand touch another hand. I'm not saying she doesn't need her own hands. But Todo does have a classmate that can put stuff in stasis and I assume this also stops decomposition. He could definitely be rocking a new hand next time we see him.

I don't think so actually? He doesn't need his own hand, he used Boogie Woogie by slapping Mahito's hand once. But by touching Mahito then, his soul was transformed in such a matter that Boogie Woogie was killed and now it's just gone. At least that's how I interpreted it.

cgfreak
Jan 2, 2013

yum posted:

Watching the latest anime episode, the open incantation for the black box is completely censored. I wonder what Sukuna meant when he was surprised that Jogo didn’t know about it since it’s apparently common knowledge but not accessible to cursed spirits. Did he mean it’s some esoteric knowledge of jujutsu not accessible to spirits, or maybe he meant it’s an ability that he’s used in the past and is part of the stories passed down about him?

It’s funny that he praises Jogo as strong but spent the entire time beating the poo poo out of him. If Jogo was a sorcerer, would he be considered special grade? You could probably wipe out a nation with something like maximum meteor

I'm pretty sure Jogo is the 4th most powerful dude we've seen in the entire series, behind Sukuna, Gojo and Kenny. He just kinda looked like a chump because he kept picking fights against literal god-tier characters.

cgfreak
Jan 2, 2013

Conspiratiorist posted:

I did find his flip very amusing.

Gojo before: "Nah, I'd win."

Gojo after: "Sukuna is like, so strong, dude. Of course I lost. Against Sukuna, not against 10 Shadows, I'm sure he had like 5 different ways to beat me without it, he was just flexing. So I'm not salty I lost - in fact, I'm glad I lost, beats just growing old, you know? My only regret is that I didn't make him work harder for it, but that goes to show how strong and cool he is, totally the only person who could've ever beaten me."

I don't think this is a flip at all. Gojo's "yeah i'm totally the bestest and strongest dude ever" attitude always struck me as grandstanding. It wasn't something he actually believed, it was a symbol he believed he had to be and had to live up to.

cgfreak
Jan 2, 2013

MonsterEnvy posted:

I think this makes a lot of sense.

It does make sense, especially since Gege spent the entire previous chapter setting up the whole "it's highly likely Judgeman won't work the way you want it to" stuff. But it still feels pretty unsatisfying, and that's coming from someone who has actually really liked a lot of things Gege has done during the culling games arc.

Sukuna giving negative fucks about the whole deal makes up for it though. Dude is just being a huge CT nerd, he WANTED to be sentenced from the start. No I don't give a poo poo about all this legal crap UGH just show me the sword already. Amazing :allears:

cgfreak
Jan 2, 2013

Brought To You By posted:

Nanami got exploded by Mahito and he didn't have a CT that involved creation. How did they manage to make a cursed tool with his technique? This is one of the reasons why JJK being more loose with its rules bothers me. Stuff happens and I don't know if I missed something or if the writer is just making it up on the fly.

I think it's Ino (dude wearing a ski mask over his head) using it. He can summon 4 little dudes who give him powers and we still haven't seen one of those 4. Maybe it can channel dead people's abilities or something.

E: maybe some possession technique even, like that dude who became Toji

cgfreak fucked around with this message at 15:34 on Dec 20, 2023

cgfreak
Jan 2, 2013
What i've wondered a couple of times now wrt anyone who fought Sukuna after Gojo/Kashimo did: why is he even bothering to use Dismantle? Why isn't he just instantly obliterating everyone into atoms with full force Cleaves?

cgfreak
Jan 2, 2013

MonsterEnvy posted:

Cleave seems to have a more limited range.

Didn't he nuke basically a square mile of Shibuya with it?

cgfreak
Jan 2, 2013
There's absolutely more going on with Sukuna's antipathy and dismissal for Yuji. If Sukuna truly thought Yuji's so boring and annoying, he would have atomized him long ago. By this point I'm starting to think he just can't for one reason or the other.

cgfreak
Jan 2, 2013

Manatee Cannon posted:

I really feel like the way the gojo-sukuna fight ended sucked all the air out of this situation. and even if the comedy duel was really fun, it came at the expense of any narrative payoff between kenjaku and yuji. tho I guess we could hard cut back to kenjaku being fine with yuta in pieces on the floor. that wouldn't surprise me at all

I definitely feel like all current events would have felt more satisfying if it went peanut brigade tries everything to peel off some off some of Sukuna's tricks -> after weakening gojo goes in for the kill but fails -> yuji and higurama go in for the executioner's sword finisher, rather than the current order of events. There's for sure something that feels unsatisfying right now, but I can't really put my finger on what.

cgfreak
Jan 2, 2013

ChaseSP posted:

Well the problem with anyone but Gojo going to confront Sukuna is that it was set up as nobody had any chance of fighting Sukuna before he got even stronger by getting four additional fingers. I outright would refuse to buy anyone showing up and managing to do anything but be man handled before Sukuna got bored and kills them, which is funnily the same situation they're in now which makes all of Gojo's fight falls flat in hindsight.

This is true for sure though. I think Gege just kinda hosed up in making Sukuna too strong. From a consistency perspective i respect them for sticking with it and not retroactively nerfing him in one way or another, but from a storytelling perspective it's sadly just not working out as satisfying as it would have if Sukuna had just been about 20% less omnipotent.

cgfreak
Jan 2, 2013
She let her guard down in the sense that she failed to consider that the original Mahito could have been close by and that a switcheroo could have occurred. Not in the sense that during this extremely chaotic and tense split second situation she quickly weighed all her options and consciously made the decision to willfully let him touch her face because there clearly couldn't be any harm in that, right??

It's like a tennis player failing to anticipate that the other player would do some sick trick shot and losing a point because of it. Did they let their guard down? Sure. Did they lose the point because of incompetence? No, because it's a hectic, adrenaline-fueled situation where you simply don't have the time to anticipate every possible outcome.

cgfreak
Jan 2, 2013

ImpAtom posted:

I am genuinely confused. What happened to the sword?

Looks like Higurama's post-mortem Nen Cursed Energy hypothesis was wrong and the thing just fizzled out as he died, instead of getting stronger?

cgfreak
Jan 2, 2013
Sukuna takes quite a bit of time to RCT his chopped off hand, and it's smokey all chapter. Dude is starting to run dry.

cgfreak
Jan 2, 2013
Seeing this animated is gonna be fully sick

cgfreak
Jan 2, 2013
I think the biggest part of why I really love this fight is how up and personal it is. And by that I don't just mean the fact that Yuji and Sukuna hate the poo poo out of each other.
It's that you have these ultimate powerhouses with literal reality-bending powers, and they're not shying away from using them, but the meat and bones of the fight is still close-quarters combat. No DBZ raaaaaaaaaaargh beamspam, these dudes just throwing hands and it owns bones

cgfreak
Jan 2, 2013
I thought the narration mentioned Sumo Guy's domain takes away all cursed energy so you can do nothing but sumo in there? Pretty hard to practice techniques in there no?

Maybe they hosed around with prison realm? Gojo said time doesn't pass (normally) in there.

E: looked up the chapter again and the narration states "Miyo's domain exists solely for the sake of sumo. It is a barrier where everything else is cut away". That's pretty vague but I would interpret that in a way that means "no techniques or energy in here".

cgfreak
Jan 2, 2013
I really love the meat grinder arc and I can't really explain why. Functionally it's not that different from Madara annihilating an entire army for fun and I thought that was tedious and lame but this just resonates with me for some reason. Sukuna is such a fun villain.

cgfreak
Jan 2, 2013
Is he... breakdancing through Sukuna's CT? This is peak lmao

Also, if I'm getting it right, Sukuna imposed a binding vow to skip hand signs in order to throw an instant, unpredictable Strong Cleave at Gojo, condition being that he has to go through extra hoops (chant, hand signs, impart direction) to cast it from then on? That's really clever.

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cgfreak
Jan 2, 2013
God drat that last page is insane.

Next chapter I just want 10 back-to-back double spreads of Yuji Black Flashing Sukuna dozens of times in a row. Sock his lower jaw off so he cant chant anything any more. You can do it my boy Itadori I believe in you :rock:

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