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Motorcycle question: what's everyone's opinion of Moto Guzzis?
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Nov 7, 2012 20:17
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The rough-and-tumble Lamborghini to the refined Ferrari that is Ducati. No matter which way you cut it, still finicky and Italian. This is just my uninformed opinion.
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Nov 7, 2012 20:25
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This will probably make it sound like I can't ride or something but... How do people carry insane lean angles but at the same time really aren't going that quick? Everything I've experienced tells me that lean angle is a function of speed, line choice, and body position. Yes, you can add lean angle with line choice that squares the corner off rather than arc-ing it or pushing the bike under yourself with poor body position. I've dragged knee on the track and the street (yes, I know, lean angle gauge), but only through completely flying... and then you see videos on the interwebs of people dragging knee at sane pace and not COMPLETELY terrible body position. What? Doesn't really matter but it confuses me.
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Nov 7, 2012 20:46
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It's more a matter of angular or linear velocity or whateverthefuck. Basically you can go in a straight line, and turn sharply, and the sharper you turn the more forward momentum you need to counterbalance (by leaning sharply). So sometimes I'll come up to a 90 degree turn, turn super late, and drop the bike way over, and then catch it with the throttle.
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Nov 7, 2012 20:54
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epalm posted:If I'm tucking my bike away for the winter (which I'm not, but I definitely won't be riding it nearly as much), is it better to do an oil change now and let it sit with fresh oil, or to wait until spring? oil change now, stab-il or seafoam in full tank.
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Nov 7, 2012 20:58
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MotoMind posted:It's more a matter of angular or linear velocity or whateverthefuck. Basically you can go in a straight line, and turn sharply, and the sharper you turn the more forward momentum you need to counterbalance (by leaning sharply). So sometimes I'll come up to a 90 degree turn, turn super late, and drop the bike way over, and then catch it with the throttle. Never really thought of it that way before, but that's a pretty solid explanation. BTW, don't do this on new tires, even if you think they're scrubbed in enough. I speak from experience.
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Nov 7, 2012 21:06
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Pope Mobile posted:Motorcycle question: what's everyone's opinion of Moto Guzzis? The post-Piaggio ones are actually pretty reliable (and parts are actually obtainable without receiving dispensation from the Pope himself) and as such somehow lack some of the desirability of the earlier ones. Safety Dance, in comparing them to Lamborghini, is a little closer than he realises. Performance-wise obviously it's not even close, Guzzi's are strictly in the cruiser zone when it comes to performance, but that engine is from a water pump for fire engines, just like Lambos originally had engines from tractors. Unfortunately, post-Piaggio, they've been aiming themselves at the Harley market rather than trying to compete with European brands (and as the only brands they could really compete with are also owned by Piaggio it's not hard to see why) and so they're priced as lifestyle items rather than vehicles. Oh yeah, and the engine keeps your knees warm.
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Nov 7, 2012 21:11
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MotoMind posted:It's more a matter of angular or linear velocity or whateverthefuck. Basically you can go in a straight line, and turn sharply, and the sharper you turn the more forward momentum you need to counterbalance (by leaning sharply). So sometimes I'll come up to a 90 degree turn, turn super late, and drop the bike way over, and then catch it with the throttle. That's what I mean by squaring off a corner. I'm talking sustained lean angle... maybe these people are going a lot quicker than I was thinking. 
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Nov 7, 2012 21:11
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MotoMind posted:So sometimes I'll come up to a 90 degree turn, turn super late, and drop the bike way over, and then catch it with the throttle. I do this every time I enter/exit my parking garage. My parking spot is at the top of a 5-floor square spiral, so that's like 20 consecutive 90 degree right (or left) turns. I need to make sure I have enough throttle to sustain the lean angle without falling over. I've almost hosed it up a few times. What I found was important is to always have the engine loaded ( Any way to lessen that zone? Edit: I seem to remember some gizmo that applies some percentage of throttle for the first 1/2 twist, something like that. Anyone know what I'm talking about? epswing fucked around with this message at 22:14 on Nov 7, 2012 |
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Nov 7, 2012 21:35
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epalm posted:What I found was important is to always have the engine loaded (clutch engaged) and at least some throttle throughout. What's dangerous is that first 1/16th twist disaster zone where no throttle becomes some throttle and the bike jerks forward (or slows abruptly). slip the clutch a little bit and keep your revs up
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Nov 7, 2012 21:43
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epalm posted:I do this every time I enter/exit my parking garage. My parking spot is at the top of a 5-floor square spiral, so that's like 20 consecutive 90 degree right (or left) turns. You're thinking of throttle cams. I think G2 cams is the most popular company but I'm not sure if that's the correct name...
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Nov 7, 2012 21:47
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Pope Mobile posted:Motorcycle question: what's everyone's opinion of Moto Guzzis? I love their naked roadsters, since the V11 Sport. Gorgeous bikes. The rest of their lineup (cruisers, adventure tourers, etc) are a little weird though. The Griso is pretty but fat as hell, and the new V12 sports aren't as lean (not that they were ever lean) as the old V11's. The V7 range is pure retro sex. If you look underneath there's probably even a big hairy bush.
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Nov 7, 2012 22:00
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echomadman posted:slip the clutch a little bit and keep your revs up Oops, yes, this. I said "clutch engaged" but I meant "clutch at least partially engaged". Keeping the revs up and steady seems to be my problem, the throttle control always seems so twitchy. (I'm still a nub so I guess that'll improve over time.) JP Money posted:You're thinking of throttle cams. I think G2 cams is the most popular company but I'm not sure if that's the correct name... Yeah that's the one. Seems like a decent idea, assuming you're not at the track / pulling wheelies / jumping over 12 flaming school buses. I suppose making the throttle less responsive might suck a bit of fun out of the bike though. epswing fucked around with this message at 22:21 on Nov 7, 2012 |
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Nov 7, 2012 22:12
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epalm posted:Yeah that's the one. Seems like a decent idea, assuming you're not at the track / pulling wheelies / jumping over 12 flaming school buses. I suppose making the throttle less responsive might suck a bit of fun out of the bike though. Some of us have modern throttle-by-wire bikes where that can all be set with the press of a button 
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Nov 7, 2012 23:38
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goddamnedtwisto posted:The post-Piaggio ones are actually pretty reliable (and parts are actually obtainable without receiving dispensation from the Pope himself) and as such somehow lack some of the desirability of the earlier ones. $8k doesn't seem really all that steep for a V7 considering the competition. I've always been a fan of that engine orientation, too.
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Nov 7, 2012 23:55
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Pope Mobile posted:$8k doesn't seem really all that steep for a V7 considering the competition. I've always been a fan of that engine orientation, too. Welp, they're priced a lot lower in the US than the UK then - that same model is £7.5k over here, which puts it on a level with a Sportster with some extra bolt-ons, and a good grand more than a Shiver or Monster and 2-2.5k over the Japanese opposition. Bizarrely the Cafe Racer is only £7k and now i hate you for putting that information in my head.
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Nov 8, 2012 00:05
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Thanks! It is time to make plans 
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Nov 8, 2012 00:11
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goddamnedtwisto posted:Welp, they're priced a lot lower in the US than the UK then - that same model is £7.5k over here, which puts it on a level with a Sportster with some extra bolt-ons, and a good grand more than a Shiver or Monster and 2-2.5k over the Japanese opposition. Well, the Stone is $8,390. The Classic and Special are both $8,990. The Racer is $9,990. I'm not really seeing any differences between the first three outside of color, though. The Griso shoots up to $12,690 which is a big jump.
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Nov 8, 2012 00:14
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Pope Mobile posted:Well, the Stone is $8,390. The Classic and Special are both $8,990. The Racer is $9,990. I'm not really seeing any differences between the first three outside of color, though. For comparison, a 2013 Bonneville base is $7,700 and a Bonneville T100 is $8,600. A 1200cc Sportster Custom is $10,500 and the 883cc SuperLow starts at $8,100. So price-wise it really is in-line with the retro-hardon competition. I have heard some dubious things about the reliability of the V7, though, but I sure hope that's improved because I'd definitely cross-shop one against the Bonnie when the time comes. They sure are pretty.
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Nov 8, 2012 01:00
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What kind of reliability issues have guzzis been known for? My old man used to ride them, and has a massive erection for them. the only thing he told me was that they had notoriously poo poo batteries from the factory. though he hasn't ridden since the 80s. Also, the V7 is $12K+ here, Australia sucks for buying motorbikes. theperminator fucked around with this message at 01:24 on Nov 8, 2012 |
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Nov 8, 2012 01:21
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MotoMind posted:It's more a matter of angular or linear velocity or whateverthefuck. Basically you can go in a straight line, and turn sharply, and the sharper you turn the more forward momentum you need to counterbalance (by leaning sharply). So sometimes I'll come up to a 90 degree turn, turn super late, and drop the bike way over, and then catch it with the throttle. Pretty much this, I do a lot of in town riding and stick to the speed limit but pretty much love nothing more than leaning the bike over so I'll deliberately take a corner late so I can lean it over a bit more than you really need to if you take the corner normally.
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Nov 8, 2012 03:09
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Post-Piaggio? I thought they were still owned by Piaggio. When I hung around the Guzzi web forums I saw an awful lot of issues on the modern bikes. This thing breaks off, that thing leaks, electrics on the fritz. I really wanted to like them, cause 90 degree v-twin is the best engine really, and I like shaft drives, but meh. They're not light and fast like Ducatis, and they're fussy like Ducatis.
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Nov 8, 2012 03:11
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The V7 is down on power p noticeably compared to the Bonneville. Like, trouble outrunning Camrys bad. Motorcycle-USA did a V7-Thruxton comparo about two weeks ago, if you're curious. The Griso has a long tank, long reach to the bars and is just big / heavy overall. Gorgeous bikes, though. The V7 Stone, Classic and Special have tubeless Al, steel spoked and Al spoked wheels respectively as well as progressively fancier paint jobs.
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Nov 8, 2012 07:01
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Can anything be done for the performance on the V7 or is it just a slow lump?
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Nov 8, 2012 12:33
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The '13 V7 is actually more powerful than previous years. There is an aftermarket for them, and pipes and a fuel map are supposed to help. But it's an air-cooled 750 V-twin (and not a Ducati) so there's only so much you can squeeze. Guzzi would probably need to punch it out closer to the Triumph's 865 to be more competitive. The ADVRider guys say once you push it faster than stock you start running into suspension limitations pretty quickly, too (Guzzi already has cheap accessory rear shocks, although 3rd party stuff is prob better.)
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Nov 8, 2012 13:45
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Rev. Dr. Moses P. Lester posted:Post-Piaggio? I thought they were still owned by Piaggio. When I hung around the Guzzi web forums I saw an awful lot of issues on the modern bikes. This thing breaks off, that thing leaks, electrics on the fritz. I really wanted to like them, cause 90 degree v-twin is the best engine really, and I like shaft drives, but meh. They're not light and fast like Ducatis, and they're fussy like Ducatis. Yeah I mean post-Piaggio as in "after Piaggio bought them out". Don't put too much store in web forums because it's pretty rare - even for Italian bike owners - to rush to the internet and say "Hey guys everything worked on my bike today!". I really don't think they're trying to compete with Ducati - after all to do so would be to compete with Aprilia too and Piaggio aren't American or British car companies so try not to compete with themselves - they're going after Harley and the retro Triumphs. Snowdens Secret posted:The '13 V7 is actually more powerful than previous years. There is an aftermarket for them, and pipes and a fuel map are supposed to help. But it's an air-cooled 750 V-twin (and not a Ducati) so there's only so much you can squeeze. Guzzi would probably need to punch it out closer to the Triumph's 865 to be more competitive. The ADVRider guys say once you push it faster than stock you start running into suspension limitations pretty quickly, too (Guzzi already has cheap accessory rear shocks, although 3rd party stuff is prob better.) Again I'd put them in the "made for looking at and cruising around" camp. The 1200s are meant to be pretty good though.
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Nov 8, 2012 14:00
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goddamnedtwisto posted:Yeah I mean post-Piaggio as in "after Piaggio bought them out". Don't put too much store in web forums because it's pretty rare - even for Italian bike owners - to rush to the internet and say "Hey guys everything worked on my bike today!".
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Nov 8, 2012 14:21
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BlackMK4 posted:This will probably make it sound like I can't ride or something but... Body position, plus if you're talking track pace, a huge amount of your lap time is choice of line. You can be dragging everything and outbraking yourself, but if you're making 3 apexes where everyone else only needs one, people will be passing you. By you I mean "one" not you personally o/c.
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Nov 8, 2012 15:24
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ReelBigLizard posted:Can anything be done for the performance on the V7 or is it just a slow lump? The V7 uses an OHV motor, right? If so it isn't a huge task to port, polish, and set the squish on one, especially with the cylinders where they are. Then you're still working with a slow lump, but a slightly less slow lump.
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Nov 8, 2012 18:12
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So when you do a valve check on a DRZ, there should be SOME kind of clearance between the cam and the shim right? My cams have absolutely 0 clearance on any of the valves. How the heck does that happen!?!
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Nov 8, 2012 19:49
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Ponies ate my Bagel posted:So when you do a valve check on a DRZ, there should be SOME kind of clearance between the cam and the shim right? My cams have absolutely 0 clearance on any of the valves. How the heck does that happen!?! Valves get hot, clearances tighten. Can you spin the shims in place at all? If so you have at least some clearance, just way too little.
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Nov 8, 2012 19:57
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Ponies ate my Bagel posted:So when you do a valve check on a DRZ, there should be SOME kind of clearance between the cam and the shim right? My cams have absolutely 0 clearance on any of the valves. How the heck does that happen!?! Are the lobes pointing the right way?
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Nov 8, 2012 20:09
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Sir Cornelius posted:You spoke my name and awoke me from the dead. Herr Cornelius: I have done my "research" on bench-syncing and it looks to be a ridiculously straightforward process. I will consult my manual on how to remove the carbs. Any particulars on your process? My guess is: adjust butterfly valve such that a piece of cigarette paper barely fits on the first carb (adjusting with the idle adjust screw) and then adjust the other with the linkage screw. Seems easy peasy to me! I'll be off of work on Saturday and the fiance is out for the day, so I'll do this. AncientTV got me scared of doing a vacuum sync, so I'll do this instead. The bike actually runs beautifully with the valve adjustment just completed.
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Nov 8, 2012 22:07
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A carb sync is a fine tune adjustment to improve throttle response from closed throttle and idle smoothness, so if you're looking for that final touch, it's a good thing to do. I rarely do carb syncs because usually they don't do enough to justify the work.
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Nov 8, 2012 22:09
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On a bike with more than a pair of carbs to sync, I agree for the most part. But it's usually trivial enough on a twin to make it pretty worthwhile. It literally takes us 5 minutes to do the wife's R1150R.
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Nov 8, 2012 22:16
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I'm actually really happy with the off throttle response after I did my valve adjustment, which leads me to believe that they're actually in good shape. The bike only has 7500 miles on it. I am slow as molasses on this stuff, so it will likely take me an hour or so. I still plan to do it on Saturday, though. Quick question: if I remove the carbs completely and drain the gas that's sitting in there, should I put the petcock on "PRIME" before first start? I ran the bike out of gas once and had to crank it A LOT to get it to finally start. I would rather not put too much strain on my battery/starter if I don't have to.
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Nov 8, 2012 23:42
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Why are you scared of doing a vacuum balance? I never had any trouble doing it that way. Seems like a lot of work to take the carbs off just to balance them. And yea, if you empty your carbs and you have a vacuum fuel valve, prime will let the floats fill up without the engine vacuum opening the fuel valve.
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Nov 8, 2012 23:53
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clutchpuck posted:Why are you scared of doing a vacuum balance? I never had any trouble doing it that way. Seems like a lot of work to take the carbs off just to balance them. He said that if my intake valves didn't measure exactly the same (lash fluctuated between .007 and .008), then it would make vacuum syncing very difficult. Obviously, I've never done anything with carbs before, haha. I even put together a bottle-type vacuum sync tool. Two glass bottles, rubber stoppers, and some tubing.
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Nov 9, 2012 00:20
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I think you're worried about nothing. Your homebrew sync tool is probably not accurate enough for your valves to limit it and I'd wager you can get it pretty close regardless. When I do it, I use a twinmax with a needle that bounces back and forth and I pretty much just eyeball it so it's bouncing as evenly to either side as possible. This is not super accurate but I get honest-to-god better results than a typical $90/hr shop tuneup sync.
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Nov 9, 2012 00:34
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| # ? May 17, 2024 13:42 |
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clutchpuck posted:I think you're worried about nothing. Your homebrew sync tool is probably not accurate enough for your valves to limit it and I'd wager you can get it pretty close regardless. That was my thought as well. I'm just going to rig it up and make adjustments until the fluid (vegetable oil) stops moving between bottles. Depending on how this goes, I may pick up a twinmax rig.
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Nov 9, 2012 00:48
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