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SlightlyMadman posted:It's about as accurate a simulation of history as Risk is a simulation of the first World War. It's probably closer to the truth to say that it resembles history. You do learn a little history, like i had no idea Brazil was an Empire at any point, I thought it went from being Portuguese colony -> sorta democracy. BUt yea, if you want something grounded in reality, but still a game, you're better off picking up Crusader Kings of Europea Universalis.
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Jul 11, 2013 20:29
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twistedmentat posted:I was actually wondering how late the artworks went, like is there rock songs? I'm only at 1890. The most modern musical piece I've personally encountered was Gershwin's "I Got Rhythm"
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Jul 11, 2013 20:31
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twistedmentat posted:You do learn a little history, like i had no idea Brazil was an Empire at any point, I thought it went from being Portuguese colony -> sorta democracy. BUt yea, if you want something grounded in reality, but still a game, you're better off picking up Crusader Kings of Europea Universalis. Or play Victoria 2, where you can drill down and examine the mood, ideology, hunger levels, issues of political concern, and need to use the bathroom of every human being on Earth, updated hourly.*(See note a.) * Note A - A slight exaggeration.** (See note b.) ** Note B - But not really.
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Jul 11, 2013 20:54
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ManOfTheYear posted:I played Civ 4 a little but somehow I didn't really "get" it. Why people find these games appealing? What makes them fun? Should I give a chance to Civ 5? As far as what makes Civ fun... It's all about being better. Better than the other civs and better than when you started. The variety comes in choosing what you want to be better at: research, income, warfare, etc. There's a real satisfaction of being able to do something in 2 turns what might have taken 30 turns at the start of the game, or to see your borders. You feel accomplished when a military campaign is executed flawlessly, or realizing that you are fighting off a vastly larger enemy. Really, it's all the little moments and stories you can tell about the game, like warning people about Ghandi nuking you or Polynesia spreading Eastern Orthodoxy across the globe. If you're looking for a completely accurate historical and sociopolitical simulator pick up Dwarf Fortress when it's done in about twenty years. If you want something a little more comprehensible give Civ V a shot.
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Jul 11, 2013 20:57
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:You may be mistaken on what constitutes "realistic" civilization building. Yeah, I understand that games are games and that's a good thing, I just remember my reaction when I invented Buddishm in a couple of turns: "Dude, you CANNOT research and invent religion like that!" What's wrong with Jared Diamond though? I thought that book was a classic. fspades posted:If you want a (semi-)realistic civilization building game, check out Paradox Interactive's games. They take a more simulation-y approach. Never played Europa Universalis or any of that stuff, but a really big difference between Civ and Paradox Interactive's games is that PI screenshots are really drat intimidating: that poo poo looks super complex and hard to learn with all those numbers and maps and units. Civ looks way more inviting. Also realistic economy is too much for my little head.
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Jul 11, 2013 20:59
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Anyone else a bit irked that all the great works only really fit for the Renaissance era? In the modern era we should see great artists producing films and great musicians producing rock. Yeah, I'm sure everyone is REAL interested in that painting that my civ created in 2013 
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Jul 11, 2013 21:05
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Fojar38 posted:Anyone else a bit irked that all the great works only really fit for the Renaissance era? In the modern era we should see great artists producing films and great musicians producing rock. I imagine it's much easier to continue doing paintings than to get the rights to use the movies and modern music in the game.
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Jul 11, 2013 21:07
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fspades posted:Europa Universalis is the most board game-y PI game. In fact, it was originally a board game. But Victoria 2? That's a different story. Even though it has it's own game-isms, it has the most complex and realistic economy system I've ever seen from a video game (short of some player-driven MMOs like EVE). Even Victoria's economic simulation isn't that complex or realistic. All goods go to the capricious God Of Trade, who lives in his own plane of existence, and doles out trade goods based on who is best at being an imperialistic bastard.
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Jul 11, 2013 21:11
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ManOfTheYear posted:Yeah, I understand that games are games and that's a good thing, I just remember my reaction when I invented Buddishm in a couple of turns: "Dude, you CANNOT research and invent religion like that!" What's wrong with Jared Diamond though? I thought that book was a classic. Religion is better in Civ 5 IMO. Faith is generated through religious buildings, and you first create a simple pantheon before transforming into a full blown religion. Overall, I feel that Civ 5 is less "gamey". As for Diamond, the guys manning this thread have me convinced that Diamond was getting a little ahead of himself with some of the declarations he made in that book. He's not all wrong though. http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3497724
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Jul 11, 2013 21:16
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ManOfTheYear posted:Never played Europa Universalis or any of that stuff, but a really big difference between Civ and Paradox Interactive's games is that PI screenshots are really drat intimidating: that poo poo looks super complex and hard to learn with all those numbers and maps and units. Civ looks way more inviting. Also realistic economy is too much for my little head. I'm not sure you can have it both ways.  Most of the major paradox titles have demos, and there are some "learning/tutorial" let's plays linked in the Paradox threads. Avoid Hearts of Iron or Victoria II as your introductory game and you'll do fine.
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Jul 11, 2013 21:19
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2 expansions and half a dozen DLC later, I still only play as England. I really like boats I guess, and now I've got trade boats!
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Jul 11, 2013 21:27
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ManOfTheYear posted:Yeah, I understand that games are games and that's a good thing, I just remember my reaction when I invented Buddishm in a couple of turns: "Dude, you CANNOT research and invent religion like that!" What's wrong with Jared Diamond though? I thought that book was a classic. This post is a contradiction. I'm not going to question your tastes, PI's games are definitely on the more complex side of the spectrum, but if you want actual simulated realism then you're going to get a game that's at least as or more complex than anything PI has on offer. And if that's too much for you, then the realism you want isn't actually going to be appealing to you. You can't have a simple and inviting game that also represents history in the way you want. That said, religion is represented slightly more realistically in Civilization 5. In that it has an impact and you do more than "invent" it, you generate faith points which can add up into a great prophet who can found/enhance religions. Religions also actually do things. I said "slightly" because it's not like that's how history went, either.
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Jul 11, 2013 21:33
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ManOfTheYear posted:I played Civ 4 a little but somehow I didn't really "get" it. Why people find these games appealing? What makes them fun? Should I give a chance to Civ 5? You may want to give Dwarf Fortress a try.
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Jul 11, 2013 21:34
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ManOfTheYear posted:Yeah, I understand that games are games and that's a good thing, I just remember my reaction when I invented Buddishm in a couple of turns: "Dude, you CANNOT research and invent religion like that!" What's wrong with Jared Diamond though? I thought that book was a classic. How do you play videogames at all? "Dude, you CANNOT wield a sword that big!" "Dude, you CANNOT survive being shot that much!" etc
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Jul 11, 2013 21:46
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Waffles Inc. posted:How do you play videogames at all? How does Mr. Pacman run around without legs? 
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Jul 11, 2013 21:49
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Muscle Tracer posted:You may want to give Dwarf Fortress a try. He said "civilization building", not societal collapse. 
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Jul 11, 2013 21:49
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Kassad posted:He said "civilization building", not societal collapse. Can't have one without eventually having the other!  
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Jul 11, 2013 21:52
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Odd: I can play BNW on MacOS already, but it's still locked on Windows. Guess I'm rebooting again!
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Jul 11, 2013 22:08
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twistedmentat posted:And when I get an archeological site, is it better to make a landmark or stick it in a museum? I love how it says "plundered by", very apt for early archeology. Depends what resolutions and ideological tenets you've got in place, and how old the artifact is (+1 culture for each additional era that has passed in comparison the original era of the artifact, so the older the better). If you've got New Deal (lvl 2 Freedom tenet, Great Person improvements provide +4 value of the appropriate yield) and the Historical Landmarks resolution (Great Person Improvements generate +2 Culture. Historical Landmarks generate +4 Culture), you're generating more tourism once hotels kick in off of a landmark than a perfectly curated artifact. e: wait now I'm not sure if New Deal boosts landmarks, or just academies/manufactories/holy sites e2: it does JayMax fucked around with this message at 22:30 on Jul 11, 2013 |
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Jul 11, 2013 22:24
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Played a few games of BNW now, 2 to completion on Emperor. The AI seems more willing to give DoFs early, sometimes even while they're still Neutral, presumably to balance the restrictions on trading money. The result of this in nearly all the games was that the world became one massive group hug for the first half of the game, with the occasional warmonger (Shaka ) getting excluded and poo poo on by everyone. This meant that all the civs were reasonably balanced with no runaways, usually until the Industrial era or thereabouts when for some reason (pre-Ideologies), everyone started denouncing and backstabbing each other. Has anyone else had this experience? I'm not sure what to make of it - on the one hand, the extra security it afforded definitely made life easier, but it felt a little restrictive at times. Also, is there any way to stop an aggressive religious takeover by the AI? William (of all people) was spewing out missionaries in the last game - closed borders didn't stop him converting the nearby city states, creating tons of pressure, and my inquisitors couldn't be everywhere at once. I just wanted my Tithe money  JayMax posted:e: wait now I'm not sure if New Deal boosts landmarks, or just academies/manufactories/holy sites It does indeed boost landmarks, enjoy your +16 culture tile!
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Jul 11, 2013 22:30
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How the heck do you locate historical sites quickly? I don't see any map overlay for them, and looking for them manually sucks.
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Jul 11, 2013 22:43
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victrix posted:How the heck do you locate historical sites quickly? I don't see any map overlay for them, and looking for them manually sucks. Turn on the resource Icons and then you can see the icon for them which looks like a ruin.
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Jul 11, 2013 22:44
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Is there something I'm missing when it comes to the theming bonus? I have the Sistine Chapel, it says I need to have two art pieces from the same era and civilization. I put two pieces from the Zulus in there both from the Ancient Era. No theming bonus.
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Jul 11, 2013 22:55
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Niwrad posted:Is there something I'm missing when it comes to the theming bonus? I have the Sistine Chapel, it says I need to have two art pieces from the same era and civilization. I put two pieces from the Zulus in there both from the Ancient Era. No theming bonus. They have to be great works, not artifacts.
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Jul 11, 2013 22:57
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Augh i had a city with 10 desert tiles miss Petra by 2 turns. I'm so annoyed about that i'm just going to start a new game.
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Jul 11, 2013 22:59
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sdr782 posted:Turn on the resource Icons and then you can see the icon for them which looks like a ruin. That's how I'm doing it now - it still sucks!
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Jul 11, 2013 22:59
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I think I'm a retard, and I haven't seen it asked yet. Once you make a trade route can you not cancel it? The food im spreading around my civ is over populating my poo poo.
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Jul 11, 2013 23:02
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sdr782 posted:Turn on the resource Icons and then you can see the icon for them which looks like a ruin. It would be nice for those to be on their own toggle- it's kind of hard to see them sometimes with all of the other resources around. My BNW game as the Shoshone has gotten very interesting all of a sudden. Literally everyone in the world has suddenly decided to denounce me- thanks to a crappy tundra-filled starting position I'm in the middle of the pack, score-wise, but it was very strange how it's like a switch flipped and everyone is hostile or guarded.
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Jul 11, 2013 23:03
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Nutmeg posted:I think I'm a retard, and I haven't seen it asked yet. Once you make a trade route can you not cancel it? The food im spreading around my civ is over populating my poo poo. You have to wait out the 30 turns. If you don't like that, you could let barbs pillage the route?
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Jul 11, 2013 23:03
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Nutmeg posted:I think I'm a retard, and I haven't seen it asked yet. Once you make a trade route can you not cancel it? The food im spreading around my civ is over populating my poo poo. Yeah like was said before you gotta wait 30 turns, but could you not click avoid growth in the citizen management tab of that city?
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Jul 11, 2013 23:04
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Nutmeg posted:I think I'm a retard, and I haven't seen it asked yet. Once you make a trade route can you not cancel it? The food im spreading around my civ is over populating my poo poo. Probably be a good thing to add to the OP if it's not already there. It gets asked at least once a page it seems.
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Jul 11, 2013 23:07
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I just built the Statue of Zeus.** **In 1979. Apparently not even Germany had unlocked Honor.
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Jul 11, 2013 23:10
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Statue of Glorious Leader, it sounds like.
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Jul 11, 2013 23:14
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So exactly when today is BNW available for those of us in the rest of the world? It's been the 12th for 21 minutes here, but I still can't play it.
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Jul 11, 2013 23:21
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The AI feels so much more passive now. I kind of miss the early wars and aggression. Playing on Deity, sandwiched between China and Iroquois and we've been BFFs forever. Even settling in their face doesn't get a reaction from them. I finally got DoW'ed on at around turn 125 from Boudicca (south of me, further than both China or Iroquois). Could have just been a fluke though. e: And AIs seem to hoard gold like crazy. A few civs had 500-1k gold banked up by like turns 30-40 (about the time when you're looking to buy settlers). I still managed to get tons of lump sum gold trades (and gpt trades from non-friends which I turned around and got lump sum for gpt trades from my "friends"). The AI ATM effect still exists, it's just a few more steps to fleece them of their cash. dangerous.hotdog fucked around with this message at 23:27 on Jul 11, 2013 |
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Jul 11, 2013 23:22
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Datasmurf posted:So exactly when today is BNW available for those of us in the rest of the world? It's been the 12th for 21 minutes here, but I still can't play it. In about 35 minutes if everything works out.
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Jul 11, 2013 23:23
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:This post is a contradiction. I'm not going to question your tastes, PI's games are definitely on the more complex side of the spectrum, but if you want actual simulated realism then you're going to get a game that's at least as or more complex than anything PI has on offer. And if that's too much for you, then the realism you want isn't actually going to be appealing to you. You can't have a simple and inviting game that also represents history in the way you want. I guess that's a bit of shame, then. A lot of games are easy to grasp but become super complicated if you dwell deep enough into them, like Street Fighter or World of Warcraft. Sure they're not a strategy games, but you get the idea. Maybe different kinda packaging would help: a lot of screenshots from PI games are basically map of Europe with stock market info in it. That's a little intimidating, but maybe I'll give a shot for them in the near future. Waffles Inc. posted:How do you play videogames at all? The only thing I knew about Civ 4 when I bought it was that the premise was about building your own civilization from the beginning of time to the futuristic space age, but before playing a Mario game I knew the premise is about saving the princes from a mushroom kingdom. There's a difference 
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Jul 11, 2013 23:26
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Kanfy posted:In about 35 minutes if everything works out. Bah, but I wanted to play now. Oh well. I guess I can go make supper or something.
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Jul 11, 2013 23:29
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Bro Enlai posted:You have to wait out the 30 turns. If you don't like that, you could let barbs pillage the route? Can you not disband a Caravan unit?
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Jul 11, 2013 23:29
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I don't know it is a quirk of the game I played or if it is part of the AI tweaks, but in my Morocco game I went to war with Montezuma because he was in the lead and on my border, and blocking me in. I was planning it, but after the third civ in a row came to me wanting to declare joint war I just went for it. He didn't have much of a military, so I was able to wipe him out fairly fast. I planned to leave him with one small city as I didn't want to take the diplo hit for wiping out another civ, but as soon as he was down to two cities all the other AIs declared war. The Zulus eventually ended up taking his final city, destroying him. They moved onto Brazil, a weak civ, and once Brazil had a solo city the AIs dogpiled him as well. He managed to hold out, somehow, though he lost his capital. I attacked Zulu much later, and the same thing happened, once he was down to only holding Delhi and Rio de Janeiro the rest of the world jumped on him too. I liberated Delhi and made peace with Shaka, leaving him to fend for himself against everyone else. He lost Rio but managed to settle a city near me right before he died, where he spent the rest of the game declaring that Geneva was under his protection and being useless. I was only playing on the middle difficulty level but the AI seemed a lot more ready to jump into a winning fight to try and snipe a city or two out from under you.
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