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GrrrlSweatshirt posted:I dislike most fantasy novels but China Mieville writes some really great female characters, plus his books are just a lot of fun the discworld series by terry pratchett has some awesome female characters imo
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Jan 4, 2014 22:33
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GrrrlSweatshirt posted:I dislike most fantasy novels but China Mieville writes some really great female characters, plus his books are just a lot of fun really? i read uh what's the name of it, it has station in the title. i disliked it not because of sexism or classism but because all of the characters were terrible and nothing happened.
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Jan 4, 2014 22:33
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GrrrlSweatshirt posted:I dislike most fantasy novels but China Mieville writes some really great female characters, plus his books are just a lot of fun 
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Jan 4, 2014 22:34
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Portals posted:the discworld series by terry pratchett has some awesome female characters imo R.A. Salvatore does them pretty well as can be done with Drow and a Red-Head. I would like to meet Terry Pratchett. I think he'd be hilarious.
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Jan 4, 2014 22:36
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toe knee hand posted:really? i read uh what's the name of it, it has station in the title. i disliked it not because of sexism or classism but because all of the characters were terrible and nothing happened. Perdido Street Station is kinda pulpy and directionless so I definitely understand if it's not your thing, but The Scar, Iron Council and Embassytown are a lot more focused and you can tell he improved his pacing and character development really substantially  dayumm nice arms GrrrlSweatshirt fucked around with this message at 22:45 on Jan 4, 2014 |
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Jan 4, 2014 22:36
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Portals posted:that was hippocrates and his idea of hysteria, derived from "hysterikos", which meant "suffering in the uterus" That's the one! Which is a hilariously stupid and sexist medical condition, but on the bright side it gave us vibrators when doctors figured out orgasms cure hysteria.  toe knee hand posted:it's fantasy. you can set it in whatever kind of society you want. so why do you set in a society that is sexist and classist? Well if you're basing it at all on real world societies, they're pretty much all sexist and classist. As for why the Middle Ages specifically, I think it's because everything from like the Renaissance on is probably seen as too refined, modern and "boring." Also lots of ripping off Tolkien. For GRRM specifically, I think he's basically trying to write a fictionalized version of the War of the Roses which happened right smack in the time period you're talking about.
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Jan 4, 2014 22:36
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Crow Jane posted:I'm not a huge fantasy reader, but if you're not reading books because they don't jibe with your beliefs you're missing out on a lot of good books. VendaGoat posted:gently caress'n Eh Sister. i feel this way about Hemingway. i love his style of writing and some of the overarching themes of his novels but the emphasis on machismo and the one-dimensional nature of a lot of his female characters don't particularly fill me full of admiration. i don't see why you would tolerate this in genre fiction, though. 99% of it is entirely without literary merit, there's very little reason to look beyond the shittiness in the writing
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Jan 4, 2014 22:38
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Kimmalah posted:Well if you're basing it at all on real world societies, they're pretty much all sexist and classist. As for why the Middle Ages specifically, I think it's because everything from like the Renaissance on is probably seen as too refined, modern and "boring." Also lots of ripping off Tolkien. It's also because if you're writing a power fantasy/hero's journey it's much easier to map out fictional cast lists where power is organized from the top-down in a feudal-style monarchy rather than research your balls off trying to approximate a society where power is more spread out and ephemeral. quote:For GRRM specifically, I think he's basically trying to write a fictionalized version of the War of the Roses which happened right smack in the time period you're talking about. He's said as much in interviews. Before it turned into a giant mess that GRRM keeps throwing new kingdoms and plotlines into like a pit of narrative garbage, the best way to describe it was "two traditional fantasy plotlines get twisted around while the War of the Roses happens in the middle."
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Jan 4, 2014 22:46
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Wildlife Analysis posted:i feel this way about Hemingway. i love his style of writing and some of the overarching themes of his novels but the emphasis on machismo and the one-dimensional nature of a lot of his female characters don't particularly fill me full of admiration. Not that I think this makes me any different/better/worse than your average dude, but I get the same way about Hemingway's machismo. quote:i don't see why you would tolerate this in genre fiction, though. 99% of it is entirely without literary merit, there's very little reason to look beyond the shittiness in the writing Escapism and enjoying something that's garbage/part-garbage is kind-of fun, and a great way to keep one from becoming too stuffy and serious-minded, although I've swung way too much in favor of garbage this past year.
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Jan 4, 2014 22:48
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Which one of you whores wants to see my gigantic throbbing cock??? Lets party
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Jan 4, 2014 22:51
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mind the walrus posted:Escapism and enjoying something that's garbage/part-garbage is kind-of fun, and a great way to keep one from becoming too stuffy and serious-minded, although I've swung way too much in favor of garbage this past year. i enjoy escapism and garbage literature too from time to time. the difference is that there is so much of it that i can choose to indulge the escapism that isn't riddled with an authors latent hatred for women/minorities/the gays. ofc everyone has their moments when they enjoy something they probably shouldnt but that's life i guess.
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Jan 4, 2014 22:52
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China Mieville is great.
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Jan 4, 2014 22:53
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GrrrlSweatshirt posted:Perdido Street Station is kinda pulpy and directionless so I definitely understand if it's not your thing Reading that right now, about halfway through, is it not actually going anywhere?  Oh well, I dig all the crazy species and weird sciencemagic and whatever so I'll finish it anyways, and I'll keep in mind that his other stuff is betterAnd yeah Discworld owns all the bones, Susan and Granny Weatherwax were my role models as an obnoxious pre-teen
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Jan 4, 2014 22:54
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However, no fantasy has a drat thing to do with any real-world society. It's not set in the 1400s or whatever. Find me a single god damned fantasy novel that has the slightest flaming poo poo of an idea of what society was like at that time. It's fantasy all the way through, throwing out the word "peasant" doesn't give it historical validity of any kind. That's like saying that a book that is set in downtown Detroit is accurate as long as the people are poor and there's a mayor somewhere. Additionally, you have to imagine if magic were real it would have affected that society. There's no such thing as "medieval with wizards" because if wizards were real then society wouldn't have happened that way.
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Jan 4, 2014 22:55
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Wildlife Analysis posted:i enjoy escapism and garbage literature too from time to time. the difference is that there is so much of it that i can choose to indulge the escapism that isn't riddled with an authors latent hatred for women/minorities/the gays. ofc everyone has their moments when they enjoy something they probably shouldnt but that's life i guess. Well yeah you pick and choose your poo poo, that's why I don't bother with Orson Scott Card even though I'd probably get a big laugh from some of his trash.
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Jan 4, 2014 22:56
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Wildlife Analysis posted:i enjoy escapism and garbage literature too from time to time. the difference is that there is so much of it that i can choose to indulge the escapism that isn't riddled with an authors latent hatred for women/minorities/the gays. ofc everyone has their moments when they enjoy something they probably shouldnt but that's life i guess. well said.
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Jan 4, 2014 22:57
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seal clubber posted:Which one of you whores wants to see my gigantic throbbing cock??? Lets party sorry we're all frigid friendzoning bitches, try the e/n feminism thread vaguely posted:Reading that right now, about halfway through, is it not actually going anywhere? It goes somewhere, it just really meanders all over the place. If you like it so far you'll enjoy it if you keep going- It's a book that I think is very entertaining but I can completely understand why some people aren't into it
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Jan 4, 2014 22:57
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Getting real mad about make believe in this thread! Favorite Terry Pratchett Character!? 
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Jan 4, 2014 22:58
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Wildlife Analysis posted:i enjoy escapism and garbage literature too from time to time. the difference is that there is so much of it that i can choose to indulge the escapism that isn't riddled with an authors latent hatred for women/minorities/the gays. ofc everyone has their moments when they enjoy something they probably shouldnt but that's life i guess. Fantasy authors love to hate homosexuality. We'll ignore that homosexuality was actually more "accepted" during many medieval times, not really as an institutionalized phenomenon but just in the context of guys doing penis stuff with other guy's butts not really thinking that much about it. But it wouldn't be realistic if it didn't promote 1950s era morals 
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Jan 4, 2014 22:58
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VendaGoat posted:Favorite Terry Pratchett Character!? HOW TYPICAL
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Jan 4, 2014 22:59
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Prachett's Death is the worst Discworld character.
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Jan 4, 2014 22:59
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I was told there would be no skeletons in this thread, why didn't you trigger warning that e: literally shaking
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Jan 4, 2014 23:00
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Pick posted:Prachett's Death is the worst Discworld character.  That's it. Fight me IRL. Do you even lift?It'll be my privelage to teach you a lesson!
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Jan 4, 2014 23:01
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Pick posted:Fantasy authors love to hate homosexuality. We'll ignore that homosexuality was actually more "accepted" during many medieval times, not really as an institutionalized phenomenon but just in the context of guys doing penis stuff with other guy's butts not really thinking that much about it. You've seen Terry Jones' documentary on medieval life and how our stereotypes of it are all wrong, haven't you? That was a drat good documentary. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yg3YDN5gTX0
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Jan 4, 2014 23:01
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VendaGoat posted:
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Jan 4, 2014 23:02
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VendaGoat posted:
that Death acts like sakura from cardcaptors
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Jan 4, 2014 23:02
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mind the walrus posted:You've seen Terry Jones' documentary on medieval life and how our stereotypes of it are all wrong, haven't you? That was a drat good documentary. no actually but i'm all loving over that 
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Jan 4, 2014 23:03
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GrrrlSweatshirt posted:I was told there would be no skeletons in this thread, why didn't you trigger warning that calm down the skeletons are gone
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Jan 4, 2014 23:03
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Pick posted:that Death acts like sakura from cardcaptors I honestly have no idea what that means. Death, Sam, Susan, Cohen, CMOTDibbler and every troll in the series. Was it "Mort" with Susan's parent's story? I think that would be my favorite.
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Jan 4, 2014 23:05
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Pick posted:Fantasy authors love to hate homosexuality. We'll ignore that homosexuality was actually more "accepted" during many medieval times, not really as an institutionalized phenomenon but just in the context of guys doing penis stuff with other guy's butts not really thinking that much about it. Haha true, they were all about the buggery. I remember seeing some medieval illuminated text that just had tons of the raunchiest porn I've ever seen lovingly drawn in the margins.
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Jan 4, 2014 23:06
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I've never actually read Discworld, where's a good place to start? I have Small Gods on hand, but don't know where it fits in
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Jan 4, 2014 23:07
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Putty posted:calm down Seeing your avatar back to normal is very calming
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Jan 4, 2014 23:07
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Pick posted:no actually but i'm all loving over that oh though i did take history courses on the industrial revolution in western europe and that definitely wasn't what people think of either a lot of the translated worker autobiographies were like "yeah my boss was a douche so i hit him in the face after like a week and went over to the next town where they didn't know me. i stole flax from work so my buddies and i could throw it around and pee on it. showed up to work drunk and barfed on the bench. life's p. okay."
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Jan 4, 2014 23:07
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Jan 4, 2014 23:08
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Kimmalah posted:Haha true, they were all about the buggery. I remember seeing some medieval illuminated text that just had tons of the raunchiest porn I've ever seen lovingly drawn in the margins. I genuinely love the fact that finding sex and farts hilarious seems to be a defining trait of mankind through the ages
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Jan 4, 2014 23:08
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Kimmalah posted:Haha true, they were all about the buggery. I remember seeing some medieval illuminated text that just had tons of the raunchiest porn I've ever seen lovingly drawn in the margins. it's also one reason you didn't want to get put in the stocks  . it was a big deal to have a friend who would watch you overnight.
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Jan 4, 2014 23:09
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Pick posted:Fantasy authors love to hate homosexuality. We'll ignore that homosexuality was actually more "accepted" during many medieval times, not really as an institutionalized phenomenon but just in the context of guys doing penis stuff with other guy's butts not really thinking that much about it. yeah, it's why i tend to not read much of it. there is a predisposition to being a terrible human being in a lot of that genre. and as walrus said, OSC for a great example in sci-fi.
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Jan 4, 2014 23:09
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Crow Jane posted:I've never actually read Discworld, where's a good place to start? I have Small Gods on hand, but don't know where it fits in You can pick up pretty much anywhere, the first is "The Light Fantastic."  It's the Wizards so you'll get to meet Rincewind and the rest at the College. They are not particularly challenging books, but they are so incredibly entertaining. Honestly, talking about them makes me want to go back and reread them all, again. EDIT: WHOOPSIE! "The Color Of Magic" is the first, like the picture says.
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Jan 4, 2014 23:11
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Pick posted:it's also one reason you didn't want to get put in the stocks This makes sense and makes me feel like my common sense is lacking for not realizing it sooner. Like when I found out that statues and sculptures of idealized body forms would often be found with semen on them.
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Jan 4, 2014 23:11
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mind the walrus posted:This makes sense and makes me feel like my common sense is lacking for not realizing it sooner. Like when I found out that statues and sculptures of idealized body forms would often be found with semen on them. medieval realdolls
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Jan 4, 2014 23:13
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