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Rod Flanders posted:You also only create 4 green tiles instead of 5 now. The improved the max damage by 300 but that is an insane nerf, looks like Rags is completely inferior to Thor now.
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# ? Jan 9, 2014 23:12 |
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# ? May 22, 2024 04:43 |
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quote:In today's patch, you will notice some revisions to Ragnarok's Thunderclap ability.
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# ? Jan 9, 2014 23:17 |
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Pretty much the only thing I've spent money on this game other than cover slots is raising Rag's red power. This doesn't exactly make me feel like spending more money on this game.
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# ? Jan 9, 2014 23:26 |
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Well that ruins my strategy, especially since I already needed to use boosts to win almost any match since everyone has 85 Thor and 85 Wolverine minimum.
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# ? Jan 9, 2014 23:26 |
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I wonder what they're going to do with Spider-Man then if they won't let us have anything under 5 AP. Also if they're going to do something about Wolverine.
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# ? Jan 9, 2014 23:39 |
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Afraid of Audio posted:The improved the max damage by 300 but that is an insane nerf, looks like Rags is completely inferior to Thor now. This. What a terrible way to "balance" a character; 2AP was too low but 6AP makes him useless. Just upping the cost to 3AP would have been fine: with boosts, you could then only start the round with two attacks - instead of three - and simple matches would net you one attack - instead of one and a half. It doesn't sound like much but it really adds up, which is the whole point of the guy. Hell, keep the green AP nerf too so he can't mass-produce criticals and that's it, you've successfully balanced the character while preserving his "hallmark". Now you're really better off using those 6AP on the lower-class Thor to feed his yellow ability. 3k+ damage and a few green APs, much better than anything Rags-lite can dish out.
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# ? Jan 9, 2014 23:59 |
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Karnegal posted:
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# ? Jan 10, 2014 00:08 |
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I don't really understand what he's saying here at all, because what you end up with at ability level 5 is literally a duplicate Thor ability that deals less damage and makes fewer tiles. [/quote] But it costs half as much? 11 ap vs 6 ap. You can use it about twice as often, unless you're talkin about thor red.
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# ? Jan 10, 2014 00:13 |
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messagemode1 posted:
They were saying "if we had increased Rag's red to cost 11 ap at level 1 so that the reduction on levelup made it cost 6 ap at level 5 it would be just like Thor's red. Instead, we made it cost 6 ap at all levels."
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# ? Jan 10, 2014 00:15 |
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messagemode1 posted:I don't really understand what he's saying here at all, because what you end up with at ability level 5 is literally a duplicate Thor ability that deals less damage and makes fewer tiles. But it costs half as much? 11 ap vs 6 ap. You can use it about twice as often, unless you're talkin about thor red. [/quote] That's what everyone is talking about. Of course there's the difference that Thor's create's yellow tiles which are used way less than green tiles.
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# ? Jan 10, 2014 00:16 |
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Ah I see. Sorry for those of you who spent $$ on rags but the nerf makes playing against him a lot more bearable. In the current meta (before Wolverine and Spider-Man are brought in line with their Design Philosophy) it's a little over nerfed, and even a 3 or 4 AP cost would be fine, but I guess we'll have to wait to see what happens to the other cards to make a judgment about how worthless rags will finally be.
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# ? Jan 10, 2014 00:21 |
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Jibo posted:I wonder what they're going to do with Spider-Man then if they won't let us have anything under 5 AP. Also if they're going to do something about Wolverine. I've been dreading when they take away the 2 AP stuns. I think 3 AP is a fine bottom level for any skill. Even though I haven't had the luck of getting more than two Rag covers, that is a kick in the balls to the character. Maybe it'll make Lightning Rounds more accessible, at least.
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# ? Jan 10, 2014 00:22 |
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Honestly reducing his HP by a measurable amount would have gone just as far to make him bearable to fight against without making him useless for players.
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# ? Jan 10, 2014 00:28 |
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It seems like they're slowing down the game pace, which might not be a great decision. In the current game with +ap boosts you can often win without the enemy team doing a single thing, but if abilities all cost more and do less you will have to endure a lot more matching. Every other boost besides +ap is more or less useless in the current meta though, so maybe by nerfing abilities across the board I might pick one of the other boosts sometime.
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# ? Jan 10, 2014 00:33 |
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chrisf posted:They were saying "if we had increased Rag's red to cost 11 ap at level 1 so that the reduction on levelup made it cost 6 ap at level 5 it would be just like Thor's red. Instead, we made it cost 6 ap at all levels."
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# ? Jan 10, 2014 00:33 |
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messagemode1 posted:It seems like they're slowing down the game pace, which might not be a great decision. In the current game with +ap boosts you can often win without the enemy team doing a single thing, but if abilities all cost more and do less you will have to endure a lot more matching. If they try and slow everything down across the board and raise the costs of all abilities OBW is just going to be even better, although that may be tempered by how expensive it will be to get her strike tiles. This is going to make level 200+ Ragnarok PVE events pretty trivial at least.
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# ? Jan 10, 2014 00:38 |
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This is all an elaborate ploy to make bag man playable.
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# ? Jan 10, 2014 00:41 |
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Ghostlight posted:I get that, but it's more the "duplicating Thor's ability isn't fun" but the change they ultimately made was to make it even more like Thor's hammer at max level, except instead of starting at 10 AP and lowering it starts at Literally Never Use This and upgrades to deal less damage and generate fewer tiles than Mjolnir does at every single ability level. That's the big problem I have, at max level before Rag would be able to deal 1800 damage and generate 15 green for 6 AP, that was pretty insane. However now Rag deals 900 damage and generates only 4 green for 6 AP. That is pretty pitiful when you compare it to Thor, who generates 5 far more useful yellow AP AND deals more damage at max level for the same AP cost. As it stands right now there is literally no reason to use Rags.
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# ? Jan 10, 2014 00:42 |
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Afraid of Audio posted:That's the big problem I have, at max level before Rag would be able to deal 1800 damage and generate 15 green for 6 AP, that was pretty insane. However now Rag deals 900 damage and generates only 4 green for 6 AP. That is pretty pitiful when you compare it to Thor, who generates 5 far more useful yellow AP AND deals more damage at max level for the same AP cost. If Thor's red lost its ~50% discount Rag's red would be better damage/AP again.
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# ? Jan 10, 2014 00:45 |
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Well hey, at least the Rags nerf made it possible for me to beat the only Prologue PvE event I hadn't finished. ...wait, is there no more PvE content after Dark Avengers, right now?
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# ? Jan 10, 2014 00:48 |
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Afraid of Audio posted:As it stands right now there is literally no reason to use Rags. One can only hope so. I'd just about stopped bothering with the lightning rounds because of having to fight a boosted Rags on like 90% of the teams, using both his abilities almost every damned turn.
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# ? Jan 10, 2014 01:05 |
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Good, its about loving time they nerfed his rear end.
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# ? Jan 10, 2014 01:17 |
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Peechka posted:Good, its about loving time they nerfed his rear end. I agree, but he probably should be worth at least something. (He's my only maxed dude, I'm a little annoyed) VVV What he said. Afraid of Audio fucked around with this message at 01:25 on Jan 10, 2014 |
# ? Jan 10, 2014 01:21 |
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I really hate when IAP games change things you can buy with real money. Buying random tokens is one thing, but directly buying a skill and then later having that skill nerfed is terrible. If I were to buy Spidey's lvl 5 blue right now and next week it gets nerfed to 4 AP or something I'd be furious. Instead of nerfing useful abilities they need to work on improving everything to Ragnarok's level. They need to make Yelena a viable character compared to Black Widow, they need to make me actually consider using Bagman over Wolverine, and they definitely need to fix their 4* cards which won't ever see play with poo poo like Spiderman/Hulk/Punisher being way more useful. Peechka posted:Good, its about loving time they nerfed his rear end. A nerf is one thing, but they tripled Thunderclap's AP cost and reduced its tile creation to 26% of its original capability (1 cast for 4 tiles vs 3 casts for 15 tiles). Then there's the indirect damage nerf via reduced green tile matches. And their consolation? Slightly buffed direct damage from the skill itself, which nobody ever gave a drat about in the first place. Thor has a much better skill in his red ability now and he has actual synergy with everything else. Nobody used Ragnarok's green ability. Eddain fucked around with this message at 01:27 on Jan 10, 2014 |
# ? Jan 10, 2014 01:23 |
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I could see it getting a slight tweak, it could reasonably cost a little less, but it really did need a nerf. YOu pretty much never beat computer 240 rags unless you had god characters, a low AP spiderman, or divine luck and never let them have red. I wonder if people will start complaining about 2ap sipderman, or if he'll be fine because he has lower HP and the computer doesn't use him that well.
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# ? Jan 10, 2014 01:42 |
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Eddain posted:I really hate when IAP games change things you can buy with real money. Buying random tokens is one thing, but directly buying a skill and then later having that skill nerfed is terrible. If I were to buy Spidey's lvl 5 blue right now and next week it gets nerfed to 4 AP or something I'd be furious. I'm glad I never spent any money on this. With better pricing I would have (probably more than once) so thank you, devs, I guess. I got better (worse?) things to get mad about than a mobile puzzle game, but like
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# ? Jan 10, 2014 01:42 |
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Karnegal posted:I could see it getting a slight tweak, it could reasonably cost a little less, but it really did need a nerf. YOu pretty much never beat computer 240 rags unless you had god characters, a low AP spiderman, or divine luck and never let them have red. I wonder if people will start complaining about 2ap sipderman, or if he'll be fine because he has lower HP and the computer doesn't use him that well. Yeah I'm not saying Thunderclap didn't need a nerf, but this pretty much makes the skill useless. 3-4 AP while keeping the same tile count and damage would've worked. But 6 AP for less tiles? Might as well use Thor.
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# ? Jan 10, 2014 01:58 |
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Eddain posted:Thor has a much better skill in his red ability now and he has actual synergy with everything else. Nobody used Ragnarok's green ability. On the contrary, I used the poo poo out of it. Start a fight with a couple of red matches and Rags became a one-man wrecking crew; quite often you could spam Thunderclap to generate 20-30 Green AP, spam Godlike Power and get a red match or two out of the resulting cascade, and repeat until enemies are deaded. I can see the need for _a_ nerf but I'm not exactly fuckin' dancing over having a 115 Ragnarok now. They will nerf All Tied Up at some point and then I will need to SET poo poo ON FIRE because of how many HPs I've pumped into Spidey and Rags. At least this should improve team diversity -- I'm considering Classic Mags / Spidey / IM40, Hulk / Grey Widow / Spidey, some other concepts at the moment, though Hulk needs more covers.
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# ? Jan 10, 2014 02:10 |
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gently caress Ragnarok. I really really hope no one was surprised by ridiculous ability changes. On the plus side this gives room for them to add a decent power to him. Clawed my way up to 1700 on the SHIELD training for a couple Thor covers, those rewards seemed so out of reach for a newer player before, it's nice (Did it with 85 wolv/53 Thor/Junk).
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# ? Jan 10, 2014 02:11 |
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delfin posted:On the contrary, I used the poo poo out of it. Start a fight with a couple of red matches and Rags became a one-man wrecking crew; quite often you could spam Thunderclap to generate 20-30 Green AP, spam Godlike Power and get a red match or two out of the resulting cascade, and repeat until enemies are deaded. Most people would've used that green to make more Wolverine strike tiles or for some board resets with Storm. Or for team damage with Grey Widow. I can see the appeal of Godlike Power but the gains vs AP cost just isn't worth it if you have good teammates.
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# ? Jan 10, 2014 02:17 |
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Ability cost reductions are something that either every skill should have, or no skills should have. Before the skill rank/level rework, there was no reason to use Thor over IM35 because IM35's original skills had AP reduction along with % damage bonus on milestone rankups, and they both had the same level cap due to having 3 powers. That patch also included nerfs to IM35 to remove his AP reduction. Thor losing his cost reduction will make Rag's red better than his again. I would love to be able to use a team like IM40/Hood/Grey widow, but there's no point when Thor/Wolverine/OBW are as efficient as they are.
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# ? Jan 10, 2014 02:19 |
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Ragnarok's green ability was actually good to use in a lot of situations. Namely situations where you want to run three three star characters and don't want Grey Widow or Hulk. Seriously though, Rags, Mags, and Spidey was a solid team to run even outside of lightning rounds.
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# ? Jan 10, 2014 02:20 |
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Eddain posted:Most people would've used that green to make more Wolverine strike tiles or for some board resets with Storm. Or for team damage with Grey Widow. I can see the appeal of Godlike Power but the gains vs AP cost just isn't worth it if you have good teammates. It depends on the circumstances. Lightning rounds, for instance, were [villain] + Rags + Spidey with no room for anyone else. I've used Rags - Wolverine and Rags - Grey Widow quite effectively in other circumstances. As for what power nerfs and buffs are coming next, apart from a feeling of dread over All Tied Up, I am assuming they'll use the standard methodology they've used so far: 1) Throw poo poo at wall 2) Repeat #1
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# ? Jan 10, 2014 02:22 |
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seravid posted:I'm glad I never spent any money on this. With better pricing I would have (probably more than once) so thank you, devs, I guess. It's a drat good thing they never figured out the magic of the 20 dollar price point.
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# ? Jan 10, 2014 02:31 |
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messagemode1 posted:It seems like they're slowing down the game pace, which might not be a great decision. In the current game with +ap boosts you can often win without the enemy team doing a single thing, but if abilities all cost more and do less you will have to endure a lot more matching. Medkits cost money, so slowing down the game is a great decision... for their bottom line.
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# ? Jan 10, 2014 02:32 |
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The best part will be where they increase Tied Up to 5 AP for like 2+1 turn per web then call it a day, resulting in a massive nerf for every single Spider-Man ability. They really should've just changed the ability entirely if they couldn't balance it without making it Mjolnir's. Why do we have four characters who use lightning and yet not a single one breaks tiles in a vertical lightning-bolt shape?
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# ? Jan 10, 2014 02:37 |
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Anyone have an opinion on Magneto now build? I just got 2 red covers and I am already 1/1/3. Also the IronMan 40 I have is 4/2/2. I am struggling to have a plan on this one I just don't think any of them are good... I was thinking 5/5/3 though to keep the yellow cheap. Ideas?
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# ? Jan 10, 2014 02:49 |
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Ghostlight posted:They really should've just changed the ability entirely if they couldn't balance it without making it Mjolnir's. Why do we have four characters who use lightning and yet not a single one breaks tiles in a vertical lightning-bolt shape? Isn't that Godlike Power?
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# ? Jan 10, 2014 02:54 |
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delfin posted:It depends on the circumstances. Lightning rounds, for instance, were [villain] + Rags + Spidey with no room for anyone else. I've used Rags - Wolverine and Rags - Grey Widow quite effectively in other circumstances. Like I said, we'll see what the chat becomes. I really don't think all tied up is as bad because the AI isn't particularly good at using it. It pops it's own web tiles all the time, it also doesn't rotate through all 3 of your characters and then keep cycling so you never get a turn. Rags on the other hand just starts going infinite and then you die. The problem is how drat good the AI is at using him because it's just roll face on keyboard easy.
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# ? Jan 10, 2014 03:39 |
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# ? May 22, 2024 04:43 |
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Karnegal posted:Like I said, we'll see what the chat becomes. I really don't think all tied up is as bad because the AI isn't particularly good at using it. It pops it's own web tiles all the time, it also doesn't rotate through all 3 of your characters and then keep cycling so you never get a turn. Rags on the other hand just starts going infinite and then you die. The problem is how drat good the AI is at using him because it's just roll face on keyboard easy. AI Spider-man actually does cycle through your characters, by default, because a stunned character goes to the back for you no matter what. And AI Rags doesn't really go infinite, because the AI won't use an ability more than once per turn.
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# ? Jan 10, 2014 03:51 |