Rod Flanders posted:

You also only create 4 green tiles instead of 5 now.

quote:

In today's patch, you will notice some revisions to Ragnarok's Thunderclap ability.

BEFORE

Ragnarok's Thunderclap ability @Level 1:
• Did 50 (effective level 6) damage*
• Converted 5 random basic colored tiles to Green
• Cost 6 AP
*Note that you never see Ragnarok do effective level 6 damage in game, as he is never actually at that level. We use it as a standardized baseline for ability/character balancing.

Upgrade path:
• Each upgrade reduced cost by 1 AP.
• Fully upgraded, the ability cost 2 AP.


ANALYSIS

The ability is overpowered in two different ways:
1. At level one, it is substantially undercosted. Our current costing guidelines would value it at 12 AP.
2. Reduction of AP brought the ability below the current minimum of 5 AP.
o This means the ability can be used at alarming frequency, greatly magnifying the first issue.
o To punctuate how poorly calibrated this is: if we gave an effective level 6 Ragnarok a 2 AP ability it would do 10 damage.
Because the ability also indirectly generates Green AP, which powers his other ability, things can get even further out of hand. However, for this adjustment we're going to ignore the cross-ability synergy and focus on bringing Thunderclap to internal balance.

THE RIGHT FIX?

To bring it into balance, we have to pick a direction. We could increase the AP cost such that the ability costs what it should given the current output (very high), or we could reduce its effective output in an attempt to preserve the lower AP cost.

We chose the latter. Increasing the AP cost effectively duplicates a Thor ability (at ability level 1), which isn't fun. Players are also very used to using the ability frequently - to some degree that defines it. Let's preserve that.

AFTER

Ragnarok's Thunderclap ability @Level 1:
• Does 30 (effective level 6) damage
• Converts 2 random basic colored tiles to Green
• Costs 6 AP
Upgrade path:
• Level 1: Converts 1 additional tile
• Level 2: Increases damage by 80%
• Level 3: Converts 1 additional tile
• Level 4: Increases damage by an additional 80% (of base damage)
• Fully upgraded, the ability converts 4 tiles and damage is increased to 260% of baseline.
Note that the upgrade-based AP reduction is removed. This is a substantial change, but it brings the ability back into alignment while preserving some semblance of its hallmark: frequency.

Afraid of Audio posted:

The improved the max damage by 300 but that is an insane nerf, looks like Rags is completely inferior to Thor now.

Karnegal posted:

quote:

To bring it into balance, we have to pick a direction. We could increase the AP cost such that the ability costs what it should given the current output (very high), or we could reduce its effective output in an attempt to preserve the lower AP cost.

We chose the latter. Increasing the AP cost effectively duplicates a Thor ability (at ability level 1), which isn't fun. Players are also very used to using the ability frequently - to some degree that defines it. Let's preserve that

Ghostlight posted:

messagemode1 posted:

But it costs half as much? 11 ap vs 6 ap.

You can use it about twice as often, unless you're talkin about thor red.

messagemode1 posted:

I don't really understand what he's saying here at all, because what you end up with at ability level 5 is literally a duplicate Thor ability that deals less damage and makes fewer tiles.

Jibo posted:

I wonder what they're going to do with Spider-Man then if they won't let us have anything under 5 AP. Also if they're going to do something about Wolverine.

chrisf posted:

They were saying "if we had increased Rag's red to cost 11 ap at level 1 so that the reduction on levelup made it cost 6 ap at level 5 it would be just like Thor's red. Instead, we made it cost 6 ap at all levels."

messagemode1 posted:

It seems like they're slowing down the game pace, which might not be a great decision. In the current game with +ap boosts you can often win without the enemy team doing a single thing, but if abilities all cost more and do less you will have to endure a lot more matching.

Every other boost besides +ap is more or less useless in the current meta though, so maybe by nerfing abilities across the board I might pick one of the other boosts sometime.

Ghostlight posted:

I get that, but it's more the "duplicating Thor's ability isn't fun" but the change they ultimately made was to make it even more like Thor's hammer at max level, except instead of starting at 10 AP and lowering it starts at Literally Never Use This and upgrades to deal less damage and generate fewer tiles than Mjolnir does at every single ability level.

Afraid of Audio posted:

That's the big problem I have, at max level before Rag would be able to deal 1800 damage and generate 15 green for 6 AP, that was pretty insane. However now Rag deals 900 damage and generates only 4 green for 6 AP. That is pretty pitiful when you compare it to Thor, who generates 5 far more useful yellow AP AND deals more damage at max level for the same AP cost.

As it stands right now there is literally no reason to use Rags.

Afraid of Audio posted:

As it stands right now there is literally no reason to use Rags.

Peechka posted:

Good, its about loving time they nerfed his rear end.

Peechka posted:

Good, its about loving time they nerfed his rear end.

Eddain posted:

I really hate when IAP games change things you can buy with real money. Buying random tokens is one thing, but directly buying a skill and then later having that skill nerfed is terrible. If I were to buy Spidey's lvl 5 blue right now and next week it gets nerfed to 4 AP or something I'd be furious.

Karnegal posted:

I could see it getting a slight tweak, it could reasonably cost a little less, but it really did need a nerf. YOu pretty much never beat computer 240 rags unless you had god characters, a low AP spiderman, or divine luck and never let them have red. I wonder if people will start complaining about 2ap sipderman, or if he'll be fine because he has lower HP and the computer doesn't use him that well.

Eddain posted:

Thor has a much better skill in his red ability now and he has actual synergy with everything else. Nobody used Ragnarok's green ability.

delfin posted:

On the contrary, I used the poo poo out of it. Start a fight with a couple of red matches and Rags became a one-man wrecking crew; quite often you could spam Thunderclap to generate 20-30 Green AP, spam Godlike Power and get a red match or two out of the resulting cascade, and repeat until enemies are deaded.

I can see the need for _a_ nerf but I'm not exactly fuckin' dancing over having a 115 Ragnarok now. They will nerf All Tied Up at some point and then I will need to SET poo poo ON FIRE because of how many HPs I've pumped into Spidey and Rags. At least this should improve team diversity -- I'm considering Classic Mags / Spidey / IM40, Hulk / Grey Widow / Spidey, some other concepts at the moment, though Hulk needs more covers.

Eddain posted:

Most people would've used that green to make more Wolverine strike tiles or for some board resets with Storm. Or for team damage with Grey Widow. I can see the appeal of Godlike Power but the gains vs AP cost just isn't worth it if you have good teammates.

seravid posted:

I'm glad I never spent any money on this. With better pricing I would have (probably more than once) so thank you, devs, I guess.

I got better (worse?) things to get mad about than a mobile puzzle game, but like many most of the playerbase, Ragnarok is the backbone of my team, which means I have dumped thousands of ISO (and 1250 HC) on him. Now he's going to stay in the bench indeterminately. That's pretty irritating.

messagemode1 posted:

It seems like they're slowing down the game pace, which might not be a great decision. In the current game with +ap boosts you can often win without the enemy team doing a single thing, but if abilities all cost more and do less you will have to endure a lot more matching.

Every other boost besides +ap is more or less useless in the current meta though, so maybe by nerfing abilities across the board I might pick one of the other boosts sometime.

Ghostlight posted:

They really should've just changed the ability entirely if they couldn't balance it without making it Mjolnir's. Why do we have four characters who use lightning and yet not a single one breaks tiles in a vertical lightning-bolt shape?

delfin posted:

It depends on the circumstances. Lightning rounds, for instance, were [villain] + Rags + Spidey with no room for anyone else. I've used Rags - Wolverine and Rags - Grey Widow quite effectively in other circumstances.

As for what power nerfs and buffs are coming next, apart from a feeling of dread over All Tied Up, I am assuming they'll use the standard methodology they've used so far:

1) Throw poo poo at wall
2) Repeat #1

Karnegal posted:

Like I said, we'll see what the chat becomes. I really don't think all tied up is as bad because the AI isn't particularly good at using it. It pops it's own web tiles all the time, it also doesn't rotate through all 3 of your characters and then keep cycling so you never get a turn. Rags on the other hand just starts going infinite and then you die. The problem is how drat good the AI is at using him because it's just roll face on keyboard easy.