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DoctorWhat posted:There's a Doctor Who radio drama where Laika comes back super-intelligent and decides to KILL ALL HUMANS! Which radio play is this? I'm just coming off the Space Dandy episode with Laika and this would make the greatest complement.
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# ? Feb 25, 2014 02:31 |
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# ? May 25, 2024 09:08 |
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Somfin posted:What gets me about a lot of the villains in that thread is they seem to have only one motivation, usually vengeance, pride, greed or the wonderfully meta 'meh,' rather than the swath of motivations that most genre-fic villains actually need to put together their stupid plans. None of these villains feel real to me because they read like the profile of a villain in a player's guide to a lovely RPG. I think the problem is two-fold: 1) revealing poo poo about a villain outside of the context of a story will always sound lame, because there's no reason to care, and b) the approach that their must be a central "villain" to plots, rather than "antagonists". Too many of these villains feel like they're trying too hard to contrast themselves against heroes, they don't feel real. Everything they right also seems to fall into the realm of epic fantasy. The scale of this stuff is just continuously all out of proportion to the investment in the characters. Who cares that the world is gonna be wiped out by the "umber shades". Who the gently caress are they? Why should I care? All of this stuff is so much cruft to the main story. I would actually benefit them to avoid mentioning any of their world building, focus only on the main characters. A villain who feels his people have been slighted by god, as was described above, seems to me a much better hook than "tentacled weirdo gets mutilated and decides to act out the plot of Wild Arms". Without the surrounding context, all of that stuff is meaningless.
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# ? Feb 25, 2014 02:35 |
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Little Blackfly posted:Without the surrounding context, all of that stuff is meaningless. It's because one of their favourite villains ever is and always will be Cthulhu, which for some reason can be divorced from its surrounding context without losing much of anything. They loving love Lovecraft, even though I doubt most of them have actually read a single story by him. (Cthulhu wasn't important in the mythos. At all)
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# ? Feb 25, 2014 03:36 |
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http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Characters/TheLordOfTheRings posted:
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# ? Feb 25, 2014 03:40 |
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Somfin posted:It's because one of their favourite villains ever is and always will be Cthulhu, which for some reason can be divorced from its surrounding context without losing much of anything. They loving love Lovecraft, even though I doubt most of them have actually read a single story by him. (Cthulhu wasn't important in the mythos. At all) The Mythos in total wasn't important to itself at all, at least in Lovecraft's stories. The whole idea of it was to just have certain entities that could be plopped into stories to create the suggestion of connectedness between stories that didn't really have meaningful connections.
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# ? Feb 25, 2014 03:41 |
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when people write cthulhu fanfiction (i mean cthulhu mythos works) do they also put in how black people aren't human and so on? because otherwise it's not the lovecraft universe i know
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# ? Feb 25, 2014 03:59 |
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crowfeathers posted:when people write cthulhu fanfiction (i mean cthulhu mythos works) do they also put in how black people aren't human and so on? because otherwise it's not the lovecraft universe i know No, they put in GOOD Cthulhus that are just as powerful as the EVIL Cthulhu but they love humanity.
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# ? Feb 25, 2014 04:06 |
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Kaboom Dragoon posted:"My name is Scaebious. I am flesh personified. Become part of me and witness the Perfection of Growth."
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# ? Feb 25, 2014 04:09 |
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The Cthulhu Mythos was originally just the idea "hey writing buddies if we each reference these same names in our horror stories it will come off spooky as heck to our readers, who don't know we write letters to each other constantly". That people take it seriously and try to give it continuity is just kinda sad.
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# ? Feb 25, 2014 04:10 |
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I haven't looked at this thread in a while, but today I decided to check out TV Tropes because I'm planning on making a page for an obscure book by an obscure author. Whatever, judge me. That's not the point though. I was reading the Beauty and the Beast page when I noticed something that kind of creeped me out.quote:Does This Remind You of Anything?: quote:Getting Crap Past the Radar: quote:I Have You Now, My Pretty: That sultry feather duster was asking for it. Kidding, but does this seem weird to anyone else? This person keeps bringing up the fact that Lumiere, Babette's love interest, was angered by the assault as proof that it's a rape metaphor. I think most people would be upset if they saw their partner being attacked, regardless if it was a sexual assault. Also it's a feather duster having its feathers ripped out in a humorous battle scene in a Disney movie. I really doubt the animators were going over the storyboard saying "Okay, we need to pack in a couple of allusions to violent rape in this so we don't bore the parents."
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# ? Feb 25, 2014 04:44 |
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Clochette posted:I haven't looked at this thread in a while, but today I decided to check out TV Tropes because I'm planning on making a page for an obscure book by an obscure author. Whatever, judge me. That's not the point though. I was reading the Beauty and the Beast page when I noticed something that kind of creeped me out. that's true, that kind of stuff would have to wait until disney's the lone ranger
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# ? Feb 25, 2014 05:15 |
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Ratspeaker posted:Which radio play is this? I'm just coming off the Space Dandy episode with Laika and this would make the greatest complement. It's Big Finish Productions' 1963: The Space Race, starring Sixth Doctor Colin Baker. It's 12bux for a DRM-free download of the 2-hour full-cast play on BigFinish.com
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# ? Feb 25, 2014 05:40 |
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So the Fallout derail in little things in games thread got me curious about what tvtropes thinks about the Fallout 3 and New Vegas. You can rest assured, goons, your concern over the seriousness and overall quality of the games is overshadowed by what tvtropes has to say:WMG/Fallout posted:The Fallout universe is a Bizarro Universe of the Metal Gear universe. WMG/Fallout posted:The first nukes were launched by aliens! Fridge/Fallout posted:I always wondered why the world of Fallout was stuck in the 50s. And then it hit me: This is a world that runs by 50s science. It's not stuck in the 50s, it practically IS the 50s! WallBangers/Fallout posted:The fact that Caesars Legion never under any circumstances ends up backstabbing a female Courier after they have won control of the Mojave. You could maybe make the argument that their entire army is scared witless of a power armour equipped walking tank capable of killing Deathclaws with her bare hands (although that never stops them sending Legion hit squads after you if you side with the NCR) but even if you speed run the game as an under-equipped pacifist armed with a selection of small knives do they consider it. Remember this is a group of men who find raping, beating, enslaving and killing women as entertaining and normal as you or I would watching television... and they apparently never find the prospect of claiming your young nubile body as their victory prize appealing? No dice. As an aside, is Space Dandy any good? I've seen the trailers for it and it reminds me of Space Adventure Cobra if it were a comedy (intentionally), but I'm not sure I'd like that.
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# ? Feb 25, 2014 05:59 |
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Install Windows posted:That people take it seriously and try to give it continuity is just kinda sad. To be fair to tropers, people were already doing that not long after Lovecraft's death. I mean, Lovecraft died in 1937 and by 1941 August Derleth was already trying to organize the whole thing into a good guy/bad guy pantheon. There's a long history of trying to make something coherent out of the incoherent mythos. crowfeathers posted:when people write cthulhu fanfiction (i mean cthulhu mythos works) do they also put in how black people aren't human and so on? because otherwise it's not the lovecraft universe i know I'm sure there are tropers who unironically feel this way.
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# ? Feb 25, 2014 06:02 |
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Venusian Weasel posted:To be fair to tropers, people were already doing that not long after Lovecraft's death. I mean, Lovecraft died in 1937 and by 1941 August Derleth was already trying to organize the whole thing into a good guy/bad guy pantheon. There's a long history of trying to make something coherent out of the incoherent mythos. Derleth was halfway to being the first Troper honestly.
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# ? Feb 25, 2014 06:04 |
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DoctorWhat posted:It's Big Finish Productions' 1963: The Space Race, starring Sixth Doctor Colin Baker. It's 12bux for a DRM-free download of the 2-hour full-cast play on BigFinish.com Awesome, I've been waiting for an excuse to buy The Space Race. Maybe this will be the episode to finally make me appreciate Colin Baker. MizPiz posted:As an aside, is Space Dandy any good? I've seen the trailers for it and it reminds me of Space Adventure Cobra if it were a comedy (intentionally), but I'm not sure I'd like that. I've caught a few episodes, and it's a pretty enjoyable watch if you don't go into it with any expectations (it's not Cowboy Bebop, and doesn't try to be). Maybe not the underwear episode, though. I probably wouldn't watch that one again.
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# ? Feb 25, 2014 06:35 |
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Shadeoses posted:Ah yes, Sauron. I think you will find he is the quintessential Omnicidal Maniac who has raised an Army of Darkness to Take Over The World and reclaim his Artifact of Doom from those Interfering Heroes. I don't think it's too bold to say he might even be a Trope Defining example of the Villain Archetype This also makes me angry. This would have been a perfect quote if you hadn't forgotten one winged angel! Somfin posted:It's because one of their favourite villains ever is and always will be Cthulhu, which for some reason can be divorced from its surrounding context without losing much of anything. They loving love Lovecraft, even though I doubt most of them have actually read a single story by him. (Cthulhu wasn't important in the mythos. At all) Hahaha, no. Their favorite villain is David Xanathos. This was a response to a villain that was posted on the other page. Since we were talking about villains I decided to bring it along. TVtropes critique posted:I'd have to say that I fear that Delphina would be a "weak"(referring to characterization, not power level) character, but this is not necessarily a bad thing; look at for example, the Lord of the Rings, with it's "weak" villain Sauron(and I really like the Lord of the Rings. Also, I can see your work as kind of an inverse Lord of the Rings: the villain is coming to the heroes, the artifact must be used, not destroyed, etc.)Just remember that you need some credible lower level threats. I'd advise you to make your Dragon a more active threat, frequently harrying the heroes, etc. Basically, I feel that you need to either have a lot of smaller conflicts in the foreground(suggestion: if you don't want to deploy your villains early, We Are Struggling Together works too), or make the whole story conflict about the suspense of the upcoming villain. Personally, I feel that the first option is better, because the second option just makes her part of the backdrop until she arrives. From the feeling pressure to write topic: quote:I honestly have been beginning to question if I have what it takes to write recently. I'm great with ideas. If you want ideas and characters and plot devices, I'm your guy. But stringing them altogether... I have difficulty with the actual writing part of writing. And I feel bad when I just sit down, look at the page in frustration and think to myself "I don't want to be here. How is there not any easier way to get what's in my head onto paper?" quote:I have a similar problem, OP. Just today, I started a writing journal, but I haven't really written anything in it yet. I am hashing out ideas, what I do and don't like about them, on a separate notepad. I'm just trying to get back into the swing of writing again after years of not writing on a consistent basis. Everything else in the topic is pretty good. Topic: Transgender people in a Fantasy setting Transgender people in a Fantasy setting posted:My fantasy setting features magic that allows a transgender person to change their body to one that matches their gender identity once they reach adulthood (It comes up once or twice) It still references that transgender people still have problems to go through, but I'm worried some people may see it as trivializing the transition process. first respons posted:Tales of MU did it, the Steff character is a "halfkind" however she did not get an Easy Sex Change. And I have no idea what that second part is in relation to. Also hilarious, that link to tales of MU leads to a main page that doesn't exist. Fortunately they do have the following: •Awesome/Tales Of MU •Headscratchers/Tales Of MU •ImageLinks/Tales Of MU •Literature/Tales Of MU •ShoutOut/Tales Of MU •WebOriginal/Tales Of MU •WMG/Tales Of MU •YMMV/Tales Of MU Good lord, why did I click this! awesome tales of MU posted:Sooni unwittingly summarizes the dynamic between her and Mack in one line: Oh wait, now I see that there is a literature page. I'll bet they moved it there, but based on this quote I'm not going to look further at the moment.
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# ? Feb 25, 2014 09:24 |
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Wasn't Tales of MU basically glorified Harry Potter fanfic that everyone considered really progressive because the main character was bi and into S&M, before it quickly turned into outright porn? I remember it had a
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# ? Feb 25, 2014 09:34 |
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Darth TNT posted:I want to write about sex changes as an easy thing.
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# ? Feb 25, 2014 09:51 |
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Transsexuals in Fantasy? Have you considered introducing them to the trainwreck that is the Arkh Project?
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# ? Feb 25, 2014 09:58 |
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Arcsquad12 posted:Transsexuals in Fantasy? Have you considered introducing them to the trainwreck that is the Arkh Project? The best part about the Arkh Project is how the main character is privilege personified, being literally a slave-owning god, thus completely invalidating the entire supposed premise of the concept. At least the Zybourne Clock gave us heaps of funny stories, the Arkh Project is just sad.
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# ? Feb 25, 2014 10:06 |
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Install Windows posted:The Cthulhu Mythos was originally just the idea "hey writing buddies if we each reference these same names in our horror stories it will come off spooky as heck to our readers, who don't know we write letters to each other constantly". That people take it seriously and try to give it continuity is just kinda sad. Indeed, putting all the mythos deities into one big cosmology actually kind of ruins them all, e.g. the limitless apathy of Cthulhu is in direct contradiction to the targeted malevolence of Nyarlathotep, whose Judaeo-Christian themes are at odds with the science-fiction style of the Yithians and the Elder Things. Also, all these entities exist in the same universe as the Dreamlands, where magic cats fight evil space toads on the moon.
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# ? Feb 25, 2014 10:20 |
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Fuego Fish posted:The best part about the Arkh Project is how the main character is privilege personified, being literally a slave-owning god, thus completely invalidating the entire supposed premise of the concept. Is the stuff mocking the Arkh Project archived anywhere? It's been a while since I've seen it brought up, and I remember there being a lot of talk about it and it's insane creator's breakdowns.
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# ? Feb 25, 2014 10:43 |
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Antivehicular posted:To play troper's advocate for a moment, I think this question is kind of okay (since he's specifically asking if it over-trivializes the experience), and I think one could theoretically write a thoughtful SF/fantasy story about trans issues in a world where physical sex change is a relatively trivial part of the experience. That said, if you're posting on the TVTropes message board for advice, you're almost certainly not equipped for the level of thought and care writing such a story would require. Oh I agree, it doesn't have to be bad. The problem in my opinion is twofold. 1: Goal of the story. Not everything has to be overwrought or analysed. You can write a thought provoking tale that highlights the differences between here and there or you can just write a light and entertaining story without worrying to much about any of that. It also strongly depends on how big of an influence it is on the story. The way he words it to me suggests that while it is a part it's just a really minor part with possible implications that he doesn't really want to address. It's mostly there because he wants to write about people sexchanging easily. And that's fine, as long as you're having fun doing it. No one is going to care about your little fantasy world where people just switch. But then why worry? If he really does want to have a serious tale where about the differences, then why even ask if people would be offended on a trope forum instead of maybe visiting a transgender community (just as a headsup, tvtropes does have transgender visitors. There's a topic somewhere on their forums that I once looked at for funny stuff.) and doing some research into the things they encounter? You don't even have to register, just reading through the topics there should already give you a lot of stuff to work with. 2: It's tvtropes. Their first suggestion is to look at an erotic story for guidance. Tell me that isn't funny. Reading back my own post, I'm amused that my mind automatically uses tale for serious stuff and story for other less serious things. Arcsquad12 posted:Is the stuff mocking the Arkh Project archived anywhere? It's been a while since I've seen it brought up, and I remember there being a lot of talk about it and it's insane creator's breakdowns. Seconding this. I have never heard of Ankh project.
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# ? Feb 25, 2014 11:00 |
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There's gently caress No Arkh Project and Stop The Arkh Project, both of which chronicle not only the shameful money-grubbing excesses of the project, but also the fact that the "project leader" is a horrible person who is actually pretty racist. There's been people pointing out the terrible proposed "mechanics" of the game. And pointing out that all the super-duper expensive "concept art" is mainly stolen designs or outright traced. Mainly it's just been a scam to cheat people out of money under the auspices of "you'll see minorities represented in a real video game!!!"
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# ? Feb 25, 2014 11:32 |
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poo poo that stuff's a goldmine. Here's a somewhat relatedly Troper thing. Remember how Jew Wario died a few weeks ago? Well, his colleague Suede made reviews of the Pokemon films, and Justin Carmical was one of the guest stars. The latest, and possibly last review in the series was released a couple of days ago, with a disclaimer at the start saying that Suede might just drop the series altogether in light of recent events. http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/videolinks/ir/suede/animenia/42368-animenia-pokemon-4ever That doesn't stop the fans in the comments section from being horribly insensitive! quote:However, WE NEED TO KNOW MORE. About the future of this series of reviews. This here video ended in a horribly "yeah, aborted, I guess" way possible. Even if it were to be the end of the Pokéreviews, we should at least get an actual ending to all this - with characters leaving together, deciding together that they're done and have no regrets. Linkara here just ran away, looking like he's not coming back, even poor Suede just went all "f*ck it" mode (with perfectly understandable reason, but still). So WE NEED AN UPDATE ABOUT THE FUTURE. Will there be more Pokéreviews? When, how many, with whom? I'd understand and even accept (though with difficulty) ending the series after... all that happened... but I will NOT accept a lack of closure. Yeah, screw the fact that a guy died, I NEED MY loving CLOSURE.
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# ? Feb 25, 2014 11:39 |
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Arcsquad12 posted:poo poo that stuff's a goldmine. These loving people. Considering that they worship the ground that TGWTG people walk on (except JO these days probably), you'd think that they'd show a little respect to Justin. But nope, they just keep on being terrible.
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# ? Feb 25, 2014 11:48 |
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Testekill posted:These loving people. Considering that they worship the ground that TGWTG people walk on (except JO these days probably), you'd think that they'd show a little respect to Justin. But nope, they just keep on being terrible. Bad fans are always this interesting slash eye-meltingly horrific mix of zealously worshipful mixed with unbelievably entitled. It probably loops back to them having nothing else in their lives, ergo their fandom tips over into their ego desperately looking for ANYTHING to seize onto. They start thinking the people they admire should do things to show how much they appreciate their devotion, and before you know it you have people stalking JesuOtaku and cataloging her life onto a Tropes page and getting angry when she says she doesn't like it and she wants it to stop and be removed. How much social interaction requires empathy and their lack of said (successful, anyway) social interaction probably has something to do with it too.
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# ? Feb 25, 2014 12:09 |
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Shadeoses posted:Ah yes, Sauron. I think you will find he is the quintessential Omnicidal Maniac who has raised an Army of Darkness to Take Over The World and reclaim his Artifact of Doom from those Interfering Heroes. I don't think it's too bold to say he might even be a Trope Defining example of the Villain Archetype This is stupid because they didn't need to source deleted scenes at all. In the silmarillion his main form is a super beautiful angelic being. Part of his fall from a angel who is one of the best craftsmen in the entire world to despotic evil tyrant working for the bad guy is him dying and losing his ability to take other non scary forms.
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# ? Feb 25, 2014 12:59 |
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I wrote that poo poo as a parody, JosephWongKS quoted the entire real entry afterwards, on this page.
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# ? Feb 25, 2014 14:10 |
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Shadeoses posted:I wrote that poo poo as a parody, JosephWongKS quoted the entire real entry afterwards, on this page. To be fair, it's hard to tell that it's a parody, given how closely it imitates the style of actual TV Tropes pages.
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# ? Feb 25, 2014 15:18 |
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So I watched WWE Elimination Chamber 2014 the other day and it had an amazing match. So what better thing to do than look at the Professional Wrestling CMOA page.quote:
Oh... wow. I bolded the flatout pointless ones and italicised the ones that are either questionable or just too short to be worthwhile. I feel really guilty about italicising some of them like Jumbo Tsuruta but his was literally just saying that he had a number of 5 star matches and won awards for feud of the year in 90-91 & wrestler of the year in 91. However it does highlight a massive problem with TV Tropes in general. Their belief that nobody/anything should be put as above anyone/anything else. But then you get the Chickbusters on the same page as legendary tag teams like the Midnight Express/ Rock & Roll Express/ Sheepherders & The Shield. Bob Holly was never anything special but he's listed immediately after Hulk Hogan. I mean, look at the following names. I'll point out to you who are the odd people out for those who don't know. Jim Cornette (Amazing manager, pretty respectable booker and has had some incredibly promos) Bryan Danielson (Probably one of the biggest stars going about today. Countless fantastic matches and the crowd just explodes for him.) Sara Del Rey (One of the best Womens wrestlers of this generation. Triple H rates her enough that she's become a full time trainer for the WWE) Alberto Del Rio (Has had a strong enough career that he deserves one) Nick Dinsmore/Eugene (He had to go full retard to get over. He devolved into a one note gimmick pretty quickly although he had some good matches) Edge (Great tag wrestler & great singles wrestler) El Santo (One of the biggest stars of all time) Ric Flair (as above) Mick Foley (as above) Alicia Fox (Yeah. Nobody cares about her and yet she has a longer page than Sara Del Ray & Mercedes Martinez.) I mean, Alicia Fox is on the same page as Ric Flair, El Santo & Mick Foley. That is a thing that they did. Testekill fucked around with this message at 16:57 on Feb 25, 2014 |
# ? Feb 25, 2014 16:53 |
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Their wrestling section is just sad all around. They also have a page for Doink the Clown, which just reminds me how 'interesting' the WWE got in the 90s.
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# ? Feb 25, 2014 17:07 |
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No one wants to give Stevie Richards a shot On the subject of wrestling, who was the ECW jobber who got a standing ovation and a ton of replays when he finally landed an offensive move? I remember laughing my rear end of at it, but I can't remember who it was.
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# ? Feb 25, 2014 17:10 |
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Kaboom Dragoon posted:No one wants to give Stevie Richards a shot I italicised Stevie Richards because it was just too short and should have been on the WWE page. It's about him being named the third most hated heel of 2000, which is admittedly incredibly impressive for someone that was a midcarder. You're also thinking of Mikey Whipwreck. Pretty much he was just a guy that got the poo poo kicked out of him until he accidentally won the tag titles with Cactus Jack. He had a couple of really cool moments during his ECW career and trained Jay Lethal which I'm eternally grateful for. AngryRobotsInc posted:Their wrestling section is just sad all around. Oh man, the original Doink the Clown was amazing. Matt Borne portrayed him as just really sick and sadistic and it's one of my favourite gimmicks of all time. The original evil clown mind you, not what happened after Borne left due to "personal demons" Testekill fucked around with this message at 17:39 on Feb 25, 2014 |
# ? Feb 25, 2014 17:33 |
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Somfin posted:No, they put in GOOD Cthulhus that are just as powerful as the EVIL Cthulhu but they love humanity. Brian Lumley actually did this. It was awful. The swirling cloud of Lovecraft followers (as opposed to the Lovecraft circle who got lumped together by those followers) is actually kind of interesting in a "fan fiction goes professional" kind of way. August Derleth was painfully bad; he would be a troper if he was around today.
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# ? Feb 25, 2014 18:03 |
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Kaboom Dragoon posted:Wasn't Tales of MU basically glorified Harry Potter fanfic that everyone considered really progressive because the main character was bi and into S&M, before it quickly turned into outright porn? I remember it had a This just unlocked a shitton of memories I repressed about this story This is basically accurate, except instead of Harry Potter it was more like every single mythological/fantasy creature ever stuffed into some soap opera interpretation of a college and having sex with each other constantly. It was like a fetish webcomic, but without pictures-- the writer literally described it in those words at some point, IIRC. It was troper-fic incarnate.
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# ? Feb 25, 2014 19:31 |
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Ratspeaker posted:This just unlocked a shitton of memories I repressed about this story This is basically accurate, except instead of Harry Potter it was more like every single mythological/fantasy creature ever stuffed into some soap opera interpretation of a college and having sex with each other constantly. It was like a fetish webcomic, but without pictures-- the writer literally described it in those words at some point, IIRC. It was troper-fic incarnate. And it updated at a chapter per day. You can guess what happened to the quality and pacing as it went on.
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# ? Feb 25, 2014 19:38 |
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Ratspeaker posted:This just unlocked a shitton of memories I repressed about this story This is basically accurate, except instead of Harry Potter it was more like every single mythological/fantasy creature ever stuffed into some soap opera interpretation of a college and having sex with each other constantly. It was like a fetish webcomic, but without pictures-- the writer literally described it in those words at some point, IIRC. It was troper-fic incarnate. I remember someone gushing about it, telling me how amazing it was (this was also a woman who viewed the Anita Blake series as the pinnacle of modern literature and a guide to living a fulfilling life, a sign that, in retrospect, should've been a giveaway). I scanned a few chapters where the main character (who was half-dragon?) was struggling with her attraction to a wood nymph who walked around naked all day and had her name badge on a nipple piercing. Other than that, it seemed kinda harmless, and as I said, the golem thing was legitimately intriguing. Of course, from what I heard later, it turned into the main character getting off on being publicly humiliated and getting banged by her boyfriend and two of her girlfriends (one of whom was a transgender elf), the rest of the cast being relegated to virtual unimportance.
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# ? Feb 25, 2014 21:24 |
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# ? May 25, 2024 09:08 |
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Testekill posted:Nick Dinsmore/Eugene (He had to go full retard to get over. He devolved into a one note gimmick pretty quickly although he had some good matches) Wasn't he just a jobber with an incredibly insulting gimmick?
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# ? Feb 25, 2014 22:35 |