TV Trops

The Something Awful Forums > Archives > General Bullshit > TV Trops

Cygna: Mar 6, 2009; The ghost of a god is no man.

DoctorWhat posted:

There's a Doctor Who radio drama where Laika comes back super-intelligent and decides to KILL ALL HUMANS!

It's pretty great.

Which radio play is this? I'm just coming off the Space Dandy episode with Laika and this would make the greatest complement.

# ? Feb 25, 2014 02:31

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 24, 2024 22:07

Political Whores: Feb 13, 2012

Somfin posted:

What gets me about a lot of the villains in that thread is they seem to have only one motivation, usually vengeance, pride, greed or the wonderfully meta 'meh,' rather than the swath of motivations that most genre-fic villains actually need to put together their stupid plans.

Think of Sauron, whose motivation really isn't just 'to get the ring back.' His motivation is to wipe out the humans and elves of Middle-Earth. It's also to get his ring back. It's also, specifically, to gently caress up Minas Tirith, because seriously gently caress that place. He's also got secondary motivations- to outdo Sarumon, to kill Gandalf, to punish the ring-stealing hobbits, and to punish Men for their insolence. And all of these motivations funnel down to his troops on the ground, who interpret them in various ways and often fight about their interpretations of those goals. He sends a massive army to Minas Tirith because he thinks that it'll give him everything- the ring-bearer, the death of the kings of men, the death of Gandalf, the destruction of Minas Tirith- and his focus there means that he very nearly misses the fact that the ring has been smuggled into his own lands by a DIFFERENT hobbit.

His own motivations get in the way of his own motivations, is what I'm saying. That's how you do complex villains who are capable of making mistakes.

None of these villains feel real to me because they read like the profile of a villain in a player's guide to a lovely RPG. I think the problem is two-fold: 1) revealing poo poo about a villain outside of the context of a story will always sound lame, because there's no reason to care, and b) the approach that their must be a central "villain" to plots, rather than "antagonists". Too many of these villains feel like they're trying too hard to contrast themselves against heroes, they don't feel real.

Everything they right also seems to fall into the realm of epic fantasy. The scale of this stuff is just continuously all out of proportion to the investment in the characters. Who cares that the world is gonna be wiped out by the "umber shades". Who the gently caress are they? Why should I care? All of this stuff is so much cruft to the main story. I would actually benefit them to avoid mentioning any of their world building, focus only on the main characters. A villain who feels his people have been slighted by god, as was described above, seems to me a much better hook than "tentacled weirdo gets mutilated and decides to act out the plot of Wild Arms". Without the surrounding context, all of that stuff is meaningless.

# ? Feb 25, 2014 02:35

Somfin: Oct 25, 2010; In my🦚 experience🛠️ the big things🌑 don't teach you anything🤷‍♀️.; Nap Ghost

Little Blackfly posted:

Without the surrounding context, all of that stuff is meaningless.

It's because one of their favourite villains ever is and always will be Cthulhu, which for some reason can be divorced from its surrounding context without losing much of anything. They loving love Lovecraft, even though I doubt most of them have actually read a single story by him. (Cthulhu wasn't important in the mythos. At all)

# ? Feb 25, 2014 03:36

JosephWongKS: Apr 4, 2009; by Nyc_Tattoo

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Characters/TheLordOfTheRings posted:

Sauron

The eponymous Lord of the Rings. The lieutenant of Morgoth, the original Dark Lord, Sauron was responsible for much suffering of Elves and Men in the Elder Days. When Morgoth was banished, Sauron ultimately picked up in his place. His first gambit was to teach the Elves to craft magic rings (ultimately the three for the Elves, seven for the Dwarves, and nine for Men). He then crafted his own One Ring as an extension of his being through which he meant to dominate each race. However, the elves were on guard against this evil and the dwarves were too focused on material wealth. Sauron made his first bid through force but was routed and his body destroyed. However, his ring anchored him to our realm and would allow him to return.

In the narrative, he is simply the Big Bad, an ominous evil presence that grows stronger as the heroes near his realm. If he reclaimed the One Ring, the doom of Middle-Earth would be swift and final. Even without it, he seems poised to win, leaving the destruction of his Ring as the only means of defeating him.

See the character sheet for The Silmarillion for tropes that apply to him in that work.

Ambition Is Evil: He represents ambition, and his ambition lead to his corruption.

Authority Equals Asskicking: Actually something of a subversion in the original book. Sauron's greatest strengths were his strategic mind and his magical abilities. His physical strength is about average; he could just about hold his own against Elendil and Gil-Galad at the Siege of Barad-d�r. It's a common theme throughout all his appearances in Tolkien's works: Sauron will only engage in combat himself when all other options have been exhausted... and he will always lose.

Big Bad: The moving force behind nearly all evil in The Lord of the Rings.

Black Speech: Sauron at one time made an artificial language as a way to communicate across his empire and his allies earlier in the backstory. Thousands of years after being killed in the final battle of the Last Alliance and getting a new form, the Nazg�l, Olog-hai, and many Orcs still use it.

The Chessmaster: Used disguises and clever tactical planning to make the Elves create the Rings, and to later undermine N�menor until its downfall.

Classic Villain: Sauron represents Ambition and Greed.

Cold-Blooded Torture: Inflicted on several unfortunates who have information he wants. Unlike Morgoth, it isn't made clear whether he also tortures people for fun in his spare time, but don't put it past him.

Dark Is Evil: Darkness is his big visual motif, as with Morgoth before him. Black are his flags, darkness is what he spreads from Mordor to shield his sun-phobic armies, and of course he's the Dark Lord.

The Dragon: In his backstory, he was The Dragon to Morgoth's Big Bad...

Dragon Ascendant: ...and became the next Dark Lord when Morgoth got pwned by the Valar.

The Dreaded: It's his name.

Emperor Scientist: As Morgoth's servant he was engaged in many "scientific experiment", most notably, he had a heavy hand in the creation of orcs. And of course after Morgoth's downfall he created the Rings with the help of the elves.

Evil Cannot Comprehend Good: One of the reasons the whole gambit to destroy the Ring works. Sauron believes that anyone who possesses the ring would use it for themselves, leaving them susceptible to its corruption. Only when it's too late does he realize that his enemies wish to destroy it. But...he turns out correct in the end, as nobody actually has the resolve to destroy it willingly. Instead, it gets undone as an unforeseen consequence of Bilbo and Frodo's act of pity, something else his evil could not comprehend.

More generally, Sauron in his fall utterly lost the ability to comprehend or empathise with anyone who wasn't as evil and selfish as him, and couldn't imagine any non-selfish motivation. He convinced Denethor that Gandalf wanted to take over Middle-Earth for himself because that's what Sauron genuinely believed.

Evil Genius: He's one of the smartest beings in Middle-Earth from the very beginning.

[i]Gandalf: Let folly be our cloak, a veil before the eyes of the Enemy! For he is very wise, and weighs all things to a nicety in the scales of his malice.[/i

Evil Is Burning Hot: Literally, as his physical form emanates enough heat to kill anyone just by touching. In general, he is associated with fire as well.

Evil Mentor: To Celebrimbor in Eregion, tricking him into forging the Rings of Power.

Evil Sorcerer: As the Necromancer, people mistakenly thought he was one of these.

Evil Overlord: The Trope Codifier for modern fantasy.

Evil Tower of Ominousness: Barad-d�r, the Dark Tower.

Face-Heel Turn: Originally, Sauron was an angelic being and servant of Aul�, the godlike patron of craftsmen and maker of the physical aspect of the Earth; this is how he became such a master at creating items of power. However, he was corrupted by the first Dark Lord, Morgoth, with promises of power.

Fallen Angel: He once was a good Maia, though that was tens of thousands of years ago.

Faceless Eye: He appears as a great eye of fire in the minds of those who perceive him. Unlike in the Jackson movies, in the books that this is not his actual physical form � that's in fact humanoid, complete with a missing finger where his Ring was cut from him in battle long ago.

Fantastic Racism: Sauron has made destroying the N�men�reans one of his major goals.

Fatal Flaw: His Evil Cannot Comprehend Good tendencies. More specifically, his belief that no one would want to destroy the Ring. While he was correct in that no one has the strength of will to intentionally destroy it, the Ring was ultimately destroyed through a series of coincides at Mount Doom that could easily have been prevented if he had bothered to guard the one place where his Soul Jar could be unmade.

Fate Worse than Death: He ends as a bodiless spirit too weak to influence anyone ever again.

Foil: To Gandalf, who was sent to Middle-Earth specifically to be his adversary.

Fountain of Expies: After the publication of The Lord of the Rings, it became de rigueur for the villain in a fantasy story to be a manipulative, rarely-seen Evil Overlord who lives in a dark tower in an evil realm, employs various horrible creatures to do his work, and is dependent on an artifact of his making for power and survival.

The Heavy: Though not present for much of the story, his actions drive the plot.

Heel-Face Turn: He did this at the end of the First Age, when he mostly reformed and want to help rebuild Middle-Earth...

Heel-Face Revolving Door: ...but the threat and fear of punishment was too great, and he didn't resist the temptation to use "reconstruction" as an excuse to to conquer the world.

I Have Many Names: Sauron's other names are these: Annatar, Gorthaur the Cruel, Th�, The Nameless Enemy, Dark Lord of Mordor, Lord of the Rings, Base Master of Treachery, the Dark Power, Lord of Barad-d�r, The Eye, Ring-maker, and The Necromancer. Also the Lord of Werewolves back in his shapeshifting days and Tevildo, Lord of Cats (!) in another version.

I Surrender, Suckers: How he caused N�menor to fall. See the The Silmarillion characters page for more.

Irony: As chancellor to Ar-Pharaz�n, he was known as Tar-Mairon. In other words, the entity that was responsible for taking the corruption of N�menor to its logical conclusion rendered his name in Quenya, the language of the Faithful.

Keystone Army: Raised and lost several.

Light Is Not Good: In his guise as Annatar, Lord of Gifts, he appeared as an angelic being of incredible beauty. This was how he deceived the Elves and corrupted the N�men�reans.

Load-Bearing Boss: His malign will was functioning as his Evil Tower of Ominousness' foundation, not to mention the primary motivating and dominating force of his slave armies.

The Magnificent: Referred to as Sauron the Great by his followers. Also, before he turned evil, he was called Mairon ("Admirable").

Mind Rape: His specialty. "Thy flesh shall be devoured and thy shriveled mind left naked to the Lidless Eye." Brrrrr.

Motive Decay: Justified in-universe: his original motivations to impose order on the world decay due to his evil corrupting his nature and the trauma of him losing multiple incarnate forms to the Downfall of N�menor and Isildur in rapid succession.

Though at least, unlike his boss, he kept the same basic goal. He still wanted to rule everything, even if the why changed.

Name's the Same: No, he is not that pterodactyl guy from X-Men. Actually, that pterodactyl guy from X-Men named himself after him.

Names to Run Away From Really Fast: "Sauron" is Quenya for "abomination." His less-often-seen Sindarin name, Gorthaur, means "terrible dread."

The Necromancer: It's one of his titles and the alias he used while recuperating at Dol Guldur, and his specialty as a Maia was in manipulating the connection between minds and physical bodies/objects.

Obviously Evil: After the Downfall of N�menor, he can only take shape as something hideous that wears all his hate and corruption on the outside, where everybody can see it plainly.

Oh Crap: Understandably, he freaks the hell out when he realizes that his ring is in the very place it can be destroyed.

Orcus on His Throne: He never engages anyone in physical battle after his previous defeat by the Last Alliance. Though this isn't to say that he's inactive. His Eye is always on the move, as are his servants, propelled by his malevolent will.

Our Angels Are Different: Sauron, like the Wizards, is an angel in humanoid form. Unlike them, however, he possesses his full power and knowledge.

Out-Gambitted: He Out Gambits everyone, and then is in turn Out Gambitted by Gandalf. See Unwitting Pawn below.

Playing with Fire: His Dark Lord form is described as looking very dark, like it is blackened from the immense heat of his body, and anybody who gets too close is burned by him.

Present Absence: Sauron is never present in a scene, and very few of the characters have actually been in his presence. His only lines are spoken to Pippin when he looks into the palant�r, and we only know them because the incident actually happens off-page, with Pippin telling the rest of the characters about it after the fact.

Red Eyes, Take Warning. Does appear yellow at one point, however.

Red Right Hand: "There are only four fingers on the Black Hand, but they are enough."

Shadow Archetype: Sauron is a Shadow to both Gandalf and Galadriel.

Shapeshifter Mode Lock: After the destruction of N�menor, he can never again assume a form that isn't hideous, hateful, and Obviously Evil.

Sinister Surveillance: Of Mordor and the surrounding lands, with his thought ("Eye") alone and with the Palant�r from Minas Ithil.

Take Over the World: His goal, literally. And if he gets his Ring back, he probably can thanks to his enemies being far weaker than they were in the Second Age.

Treacherous Advisor: Sauron was this to Ar-Pharaz�n and Celebrimbor, as well as an Evil Chancellor.

Ultimate Evil: In the book itself, he's a quintessential go-to example of Ultimate Evil. The fact that there's a Bigger Bad in the Back Story is therefore Up to Eleven. Then again, Tolkien states that Sauron at the height of his power was more powerful than Morgoth during the War of the Jewels when compared to their respective opposition. Interestingly enough, he's not motiveless Evil Incarnate: his Start of Darkness was motivated by a desire for order and control. This helps explain the reactions of Gandalf and Galadriel when Frodo offers them the ring.

The Unfought: Due to Present Absence. Sauron always sends his minions to do the fighting for him. This may be justified as he usually gets the worst of any fight he actually takes part in.

Unwitting Pawn: Marching most of his army up to the Black Gate was a trap and he walked right into it.

Voluntary Shapeshifting: Before his physical body was destroyed in the fall of N�menor. Even afterwards he's implied to still possess the ability, though he never really gets a chance to use it � he just can't conceal his evil nature any more, meaning it's no longer useful as a disguise.

Well-Intentioned Extremist: His goal at the beginning was to establish a lasting order in Middle-Earth. By the time of the novel, he's long since lost any good intentions and now just wants absolute power for the sake of it.

# ? Feb 25, 2014 03:40

Nintendo Kid: Aug 4, 2011; by Smythe

Somfin posted:

It's because one of their favourite villains ever is and always will be Cthulhu, which for some reason can be divorced from its surrounding context without losing much of anything. They loving love Lovecraft, even though I doubt most of them have actually read a single story by him. (Cthulhu wasn't important in the mythos. At all)

The Mythos in total wasn't important to itself at all, at least in Lovecraft's stories.

The whole idea of it was to just have certain entities that could be plopped into stories to create the suggestion of connectedness between stories that didn't really have meaningful connections.

# ? Feb 25, 2014 03:41

corn in the bible: Jun 5, 2004; Oh no oh god it's all true!

when people write cthulhu fanfiction (i mean cthulhu mythos works) do they also put in how black people aren't human and so on? because otherwise it's not the lovecraft universe i know

# ? Feb 25, 2014 03:59

Somfin: Oct 25, 2010; In my🦚 experience🛠️ the big things🌑 don't teach you anything🤷‍♀️.; Nap Ghost

crowfeathers posted:

when people write cthulhu fanfiction (i mean cthulhu mythos works) do they also put in how black people aren't human and so on? because otherwise it's not the lovecraft universe i know

No, they put in GOOD Cthulhus that are just as powerful as the EVIL Cthulhu but they love humanity.

# ? Feb 25, 2014 04:06

fade5: May 31, 2012; by exmarx

Kaboom Dragoon posted:

"My name is Scaebious. I am flesh personified. Become part of me and witness the Perfection of Growth."

Imagine that being said in a creepy choir of halting voices, none of them getting the emphasis on the right words.

Thanks to that last sentence, I can't hear that being said in anything but Perfect Cell's voice. It works shockingly well, actually; Dameon Clarke was good at making Cell sound creepy as hell when he wanted to.

# ? Feb 25, 2014 04:09

Nintendo Kid: Aug 4, 2011; by Smythe

The Cthulhu Mythos was originally just the idea "hey writing buddies if we each reference these same names in our horror stories it will come off spooky as heck to our readers, who don't know we write letters to each other constantly". That people take it seriously and try to give it continuity is just kinda sad.

# ? Feb 25, 2014 04:10

Clochette: Aug 12, 2013

I haven't looked at this thread in a while, but today I decided to check out TV Tropes because I'm planning on making a page for an obscure book by an obscure author. Whatever, judge me. That's not the point though. I was reading the Beauty and the Beast page when I noticed something that kind of creeped me out.

quote:

Does This Remind You of Anything?:

Maurice "reaching inside" Cogsworth early in the film.
When the castle is invaded by the mob, one of the townsfolk grabs Babette and starts ripping out her feathers as she shrieks and struggles. Lumiere saves her in an angry boyfriend fashion. Yeah.

quote:

Getting Crap Past the Radar:

Remember Maurice's curiosity concerning Cogsworth's... pendulum? Or Cogsworth's indignant reaction to his prodding?
Gaston mentions that every last inch of him is covered in hair, accompanied by a wink to the camera.
The feather duster/maid is picked up, held upside down, and has her feathers ripped out during the end fight scene. As an adult, you realize that the feathers are her 'skirt'... Also, the shrieks she makes as she's being yanked at and how she's rescued by her very angry boyfriend.

quote:

I Have You Now, My Pretty:

Anytime Gaston is around Belle he makes aggressive advances on her and tries to blackmail her into marrying him. The "coerced marriage" theme is a literary fig leaf for lust and rape.
The film's battle scene includes a man ripping the feathers from the sultry feather duster in another rape metaphor. Her candelabra boyfriend doesn't take this well and gives the jerk what's coming to him.

That sultry feather duster was asking for it. :colbert:

Kidding, but does this seem weird to anyone else? This person keeps bringing up the fact that Lumiere, Babette's love interest, was angered by the assault as proof that it's a rape metaphor. I think most people would be upset if they saw their partner being attacked, regardless if it was a sexual assault.

Also it's a feather duster having its feathers ripped out in a humorous battle scene in a Disney movie. I really doubt the animators were going over the storyboard saying "Okay, we need to pack in a couple of allusions to violent rape in this so we don't bore the parents."

# ? Feb 25, 2014 04:44

corn in the bible: Jun 5, 2004; Oh no oh god it's all true!

Clochette posted:

I haven't looked at this thread in a while, but today I decided to check out TV Tropes because I'm planning on making a page for an obscure book by an obscure author. Whatever, judge me. That's not the point though. I was reading the Beauty and the Beast page when I noticed something that kind of creeped me out.

That sultry feather duster was asking for it.

Kidding, but does this seem weird to anyone else? This person keeps bringing up the fact that Lumiere, Babette's love interest, was angered by the assault as proof that it's a rape metaphor. I think most people would be upset if they saw their partner being attacked, regardless if it was a sexual assault.

Also it's a feather duster having its feathers ripped out in a humorous battle scene in a Disney movie. I really doubt the animators were going over the storyboard saying "Okay, we need to pack in a couple of allusions to violent rape in this so we don't bore the parents."

that's true, that kind of stuff would have to wait until disney's the lone ranger

# ? Feb 25, 2014 05:15

DoctorWhat: Nov 18, 2011; A little privacy, please?

Ratspeaker posted:

Which radio play is this? I'm just coming off the Space Dandy episode with Laika and this would make the greatest complement.

It's Big Finish Productions' 1963: The Space Race, starring Sixth Doctor Colin Baker. It's 12bux for a DRM-free download of the 2-hour full-cast play on BigFinish.com

# ? Feb 25, 2014 05:40

MizPiz: May 29, 2013; by Athanatos

So the Fallout derail in little things in games thread got me curious about what tvtropes thinks about the Fallout 3 and New Vegas. You can rest assured, goons, your concern over the seriousness and overall quality of the games is overshadowed by what tvtropes has to say:

WMG/Fallout posted:

The Fallout universe is a Bizarro Universe of the Metal Gear universe.

Fallout = "War never changes."
Metal Gear Solid 4 = "War has changed."

Enough said.

Giant bipedal robot and stealth suit are the constant?.

Two quotes that mirror each other save one word? Clearly they're each others alternate universes. :smugbert:

WMG/Fallout posted:

The first nukes were launched by aliens!
In the DLC for Fallout 3, Mothership Zeta, you can listen to audio recordings of alien prisoners. One of these recordings is an American military officer telling the aliens the troop strength of America, followed by him struggling not to tell the aliens the codes for launching ICB Ms. The recording cuts off while he is screaming "Get out of my head!" I propose that the aliens got the codes, and since they are dicks(vast amounts of evidence supports the dick theory), they started nuclear war for lulz.

Or, they saw a planet where the humans were developing nukes, robots, and space travel, felt threatened, and blew up the Earth to keep humans from taking their aggression out into space. Just like The Day the Earth Stood Still (1951), but with explosions.
It is implied, at a few points, that China sent the first nukes (backed up by the Shi Emperor's logs and Rickardson's comments). Still, that doesn't mean the aliens weren't involved, and there still is room for America to have sent the first nukes.

I see a career in alienology in their futures. I'd certainly would hope to see Ancient Aliens feature an "expert" that described their theories through tropes.

Fridge/Fallout posted:

I always wondered why the world of Fallout was stuck in the 50s. And then it hit me: This is a world that runs by 50s science. It's not stuck in the 50s, it practically IS the 50s!

The games' setting looks like the 1950s because it's based off the 1950s. :science:

WallBangers/Fallout posted:

The fact that Caesars Legion never under any circumstances ends up backstabbing a female Courier after they have won control of the Mojave. You could maybe make the argument that their entire army is scared witless of a power armour equipped walking tank capable of killing Deathclaws with her bare hands (although that never stops them sending Legion hit squads after you if you side with the NCR) but even if you speed run the game as an under-equipped pacifist armed with a selection of small knives do they consider it. Remember this is a group of men who find raping, beating, enslaving and killing women as entertaining and normal as you or I would watching television... and they apparently never find the prospect of claiming your young nubile body as their victory prize appealing? No dice.

I played through the game as a fe-male expecting to see it get gang-raped by the quasi-gay army of Roman cosplayers, yet the developers are ignorant about :biotruths:

and the breeding appeal of my character.

As an aside, is Space Dandy any good? I've seen the trailers for it and it reminds me of Space Adventure Cobra if it were a comedy (intentionally), but I'm not sure I'd like that.

# ? Feb 25, 2014 05:59

Venusian Weasel: Nov 18, 2011

Install Windows posted:

That people take it seriously and try to give it continuity is just kinda sad.

To be fair to tropers, people were already doing that not long after Lovecraft's death. I mean, Lovecraft died in 1937 and by 1941 August Derleth was already trying to organize the whole thing into a good guy/bad guy pantheon. There's a long history of trying to make something coherent out of the incoherent mythos.

crowfeathers posted:

when people write cthulhu fanfiction (i mean cthulhu mythos works) do they also put in how black people aren't human and so on? because otherwise it's not the lovecraft universe i know

I'm sure there are tropers who unironically feel this way.

# ? Feb 25, 2014 06:02

Nintendo Kid: Aug 4, 2011; by Smythe

Venusian Weasel posted:

To be fair to tropers, people were already doing that not long after Lovecraft's death. I mean, Lovecraft died in 1937 and by 1941 August Derleth was already trying to organize the whole thing into a good guy/bad guy pantheon. There's a long history of trying to make something coherent out of the incoherent mythos.

Derleth was halfway to being the first Troper honestly.

# ? Feb 25, 2014 06:04

Cygna: Mar 6, 2009; The ghost of a god is no man.

DoctorWhat posted:

It's Big Finish Productions' 1963: The Space Race, starring Sixth Doctor Colin Baker. It's 12bux for a DRM-free download of the 2-hour full-cast play on BigFinish.com

Awesome, I've been waiting for an excuse to buy The Space Race. Maybe this will be the episode to finally make me appreciate Colin Baker.

MizPiz posted:

As an aside, is Space Dandy any good? I've seen the trailers for it and it reminds me of Space Adventure Cobra if it were a comedy (intentionally), but I'm not sure I'd like that.

I've caught a few episodes, and it's a pretty enjoyable watch if you don't go into it with any expectations (it's not Cowboy Bebop, and doesn't try to be). Maybe not the underwear episode, though. I probably wouldn't watch that one again.

# ? Feb 25, 2014 06:35

Darth TNT: Sep 20, 2013

Shadeoses posted:

Ah yes, Sauron. I think you will find he is the quintessential Omnicidal Maniac who has raised an Army of Darkness to Take Over The World and reclaim his Artifact of Doom from those Interfering Heroes. I don't think it's too bold to say he might even be a Trope Defining example of the Villain Archetype

Contains example of:
Bishonen - In deleted scenes from RotK, Sauron took the form of a tall, fair angel
One winged angel - In deleted scenes from RotK, Sauron took the form of a tall, fair angel

This also makes me angry. This would have been a perfect quote if you hadn't forgotten one winged angel!

Somfin posted:

It's because one of their favourite villains ever is and always will be Cthulhu, which for some reason can be divorced from its surrounding context without losing much of anything. They loving love Lovecraft, even though I doubt most of them have actually read a single story by him. (Cthulhu wasn't important in the mythos. At all)

Hahaha, no. Their favorite villain is David Xanathos.

This was a response to a villain that was posted on the other page. Since we were talking about villains I decided to bring it along.

TVtropes critique posted:

I'd have to say that I fear that Delphina would be a "weak"(referring to characterization, not power level) character, but this is not necessarily a bad thing; look at for example, the Lord of the Rings, with it's "weak" villain Sauron(and I really like the Lord of the Rings. Also, I can see your work as kind of an inverse Lord of the Rings: the villain is coming to the heroes, the artifact must be used, not destroyed, etc.)Just remember that you need some credible lower level threats. I'd advise you to make your Dragon a more active threat, frequently harrying the heroes, etc. Basically, I feel that you need to either have a lot of smaller conflicts in the foreground(suggestion: if you don't want to deploy your villains early, We Are Struggling Together works too), or make the whole story conflict about the suspense of the upcoming villain. Personally, I feel that the first option is better, because the second option just makes her part of the backdrop until she arrives.

From the feeling pressure to write topic:

quote:

I honestly have been beginning to question if I have what it takes to write recently. I'm great with ideas. If you want ideas and characters and plot devices, I'm your guy. But stringing them altogether... I have difficulty with the actual writing part of writing. And I feel bad when I just sit down, look at the page in frustration and think to myself "I don't want to be here. How is there not any easier way to get what's in my head onto paper?"
Does anyone else ever feel like this?

This is good to read.

It's realistic and he recognises that writing his hard.

quote:

I have a similar problem, OP. Just today, I started a writing journal, but I haven't really written anything in it yet. I am hashing out ideas, what I do and don't like about them, on a separate notepad. I'm just trying to get back into the swing of writing again after years of not writing on a consistent basis.

I started a writing journal, it's currently empty. That's...not much of a start then is it?

Everything else in the topic is pretty good.

Topic: Transgender people in a Fantasy setting

Transgender people in a Fantasy setting posted:

My fantasy setting features magic that allows a transgender person to change their body to one that matches their gender identity once they reach adulthood (It comes up once or twice) It still references that transgender people still have problems to go through, but I'm worried some people may see it as trivializing the transition process.
Thoughts?

I want to write about sex changes as an easy thing. :fap:

first respons posted:

Tales of MU did it, the Steff character is a "halfkind" however she did not get an Easy Sex Change.
Magic uses could probably tell that someone had changed over. In many cultures, those who cross the gender barrier have more "magical ability". Or are more in tune with the spirit world.
So they could be hunted. As in real life their past may catch up with them.

They did it, but it wasn't difficult so it wasn't the same at all.
And I have no idea what that second part is in relation to. Also hilarious, that link to tales of MU leads to a main page that doesn't exist. Fortunately they do have the following:
�Awesome/Tales Of MU
�Headscratchers/Tales Of MU
�ImageLinks/Tales Of MU
�Literature/Tales Of MU
�ShoutOut/Tales Of MU
�WebOriginal/Tales Of MU
�WMG/Tales Of MU
�YMMV/Tales Of MU

Good lord, why did I click this!

awesome tales of MU posted:

Sooni unwittingly summarizes the dynamic between her and Mack in one line:
Sooni: Stop! Having! Orgasms! When! I�m! Defeating! You!

Oh wait, now I see that there is a literature page. I'll bet they moved it there, but based on this quote I'm not going to look further at the moment.

# ? Feb 25, 2014 09:24

Kaboom Dragoon: May 7, 2010; The greatest of feasts

Wasn't Tales of MU basically glorified Harry Potter fanfic that everyone considered really progressive because the main character was bi and into S&M, before it quickly turned into outright porn? I remember it had a ~~sexbot~~ 'golem' who was torn between wanting to be ordered to do things and wanting to be her own person, which was actually an interesting idea from what I heard. Guessing it was squandered swiftly?

# ? Feb 25, 2014 09:34

Antivehicular: Dec 30, 2011; I wanna sing one for the cars
That are right now headed silent down the highway
And it's dark and there is nobody driving And something has got to give

Darth TNT posted:

I want to write about sex changes as an easy thing.

To play troper's advocate for a moment, I think this question is kind of okay (since he's specifically asking if it over-trivializes the experience), and I think one could theoretically write a thoughtful SF/fantasy story about trans issues in a world where physical sex change is a relatively trivial part of the experience. That said, if you're posting on the TVTropes message board for advice, you're almost certainly not equipped for the level of thought and care writing such a story would require.

# ? Feb 25, 2014 09:51

Arc Hammer: Mar 4, 2013; Got any deathsticks?

Transsexuals in Fantasy? Have you considered introducing them to the trainwreck that is the Arkh Project?

# ? Feb 25, 2014 09:58

Fuego Fish: Dec 5, 2004; By tooth and claw!

Arcsquad12 posted:

Transsexuals in Fantasy? Have you considered introducing them to the trainwreck that is the Arkh Project?

The best part about the Arkh Project is how the main character is privilege personified, being literally a slave-owning god, thus completely invalidating the entire supposed premise of the concept.

At least the Zybourne Clock gave us heaps of funny stories, the Arkh Project is just sad.

# ? Feb 25, 2014 10:06

Sailor Viy: Aug 4, 2013; And when I can swim no longer, if I have not reached Aslan's country, or shot over the edge of the world into some vast cataract, I shall sink with my nose to the sunrise.

Install Windows posted:

The Cthulhu Mythos was originally just the idea "hey writing buddies if we each reference these same names in our horror stories it will come off spooky as heck to our readers, who don't know we write letters to each other constantly". That people take it seriously and try to give it continuity is just kinda sad.

Indeed, putting all the mythos deities into one big cosmology actually kind of ruins them all, e.g. the limitless apathy of Cthulhu is in direct contradiction to the targeted malevolence of Nyarlathotep, whose Judaeo-Christian themes are at odds with the science-fiction style of the Yithians and the Elder Things. Also, all these entities exist in the same universe as the Dreamlands, where magic cats fight evil space toads on the moon.

# ? Feb 25, 2014 10:20

Arc Hammer: Mar 4, 2013; Got any deathsticks?

Fuego Fish posted:

The best part about the Arkh Project is how the main character is privilege personified, being literally a slave-owning god, thus completely invalidating the entire supposed premise of the concept.

At least the Zybourne Clock gave us heaps of funny stories, the Arkh Project is just sad.

Is the stuff mocking the Arkh Project archived anywhere? It's been a while since I've seen it brought up, and I remember there being a lot of talk about it and it's insane creator's breakdowns.

# ? Feb 25, 2014 10:43

Darth TNT: Sep 20, 2013

Antivehicular posted:

To play troper's advocate for a moment, I think this question is kind of okay (since he's specifically asking if it over-trivializes the experience), and I think one could theoretically write a thoughtful SF/fantasy story about trans issues in a world where physical sex change is a relatively trivial part of the experience. That said, if you're posting on the TVTropes message board for advice, you're almost certainly not equipped for the level of thought and care writing such a story would require.

Oh I agree, it doesn't have to be bad. The problem in my opinion is twofold.
1: Goal of the story. Not everything has to be overwrought or analysed. You can write a thought provoking tale that highlights the differences between here and there or you can just write a light and entertaining story without worrying to much about any of that. It also strongly depends on how big of an influence it is on the story.
The way he words it to me suggests that while it is a part it's just a really minor part with possible implications that he doesn't really want to address. It's mostly there because he wants to write about people sexchanging easily. And that's fine, as long as you're having fun doing it. No one is going to care about your little fantasy world where people just switch. But then why worry?

If he really does want to have a serious tale where about the differences, then why even ask if people would be offended on a trope forum instead of maybe visiting a transgender community (just as a headsup, tvtropes does have transgender visitors. There's a topic somewhere on their forums that I once looked at for funny stuff.) and doing some research into the things they encounter? You don't even have to register, just reading through the topics there should already give you a lot of stuff to work with.
2: It's tvtropes. Their first suggestion is to look at an erotic story for guidance. Tell me that isn't funny.

Reading back my own post, I'm amused that my mind automatically uses tale for serious stuff and story for other less serious things.

Arcsquad12 posted:

Is the stuff mocking the Arkh Project archived anywhere? It's been a while since I've seen it brought up, and I remember there being a lot of talk about it and it's insane creator's breakdowns.

Seconding this. I have never heard of Ankh project.

# ? Feb 25, 2014 11:00

Fuego Fish: Dec 5, 2004; By tooth and claw!

There's gently caress No Arkh Project and Stop The Arkh Project, both of which chronicle not only the shameful money-grubbing excesses of the project, but also the fact that the "project leader" is a horrible person who is actually pretty racist.

There's been people pointing out the terrible proposed "mechanics" of the game. And pointing out that all the super-duper expensive "concept art" is mainly stolen designs or outright traced.

Mainly it's just been a scam to cheat people out of money under the auspices of "you'll see minorities represented in a real video game!!!"

# ? Feb 25, 2014 11:32

Arc Hammer: Mar 4, 2013; Got any deathsticks?

poo poo that stuff's a goldmine.

Here's a somewhat relatedly Troper thing. Remember how Jew Wario died a few weeks ago? Well, his colleague Suede made reviews of the Pokemon films, and Justin Carmical was one of the guest stars. The latest, and possibly last review in the series was released a couple of days ago, with a disclaimer at the start saying that Suede might just drop the series altogether in light of recent events.

http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/videolinks/ir/suede/animenia/42368-animenia-pokemon-4ever
That doesn't stop the fans in the comments section from being horribly insensitive!

quote:

However, WE NEED TO KNOW MORE. About the future of this series of reviews. This here video ended in a horribly "yeah, aborted, I guess" way possible. Even if it were to be the end of the Pok�reviews, we should at least get an actual ending to all this - with characters leaving together, deciding together that they're done and have no regrets. Linkara here just ran away, looking like he's not coming back, even poor Suede just went all "f*ck it" mode (with perfectly understandable reason, but still). So WE NEED AN UPDATE ABOUT THE FUTURE. Will there be more Pok�reviews? When, how many, with whom? I'd understand and even accept (though with difficulty) ending the series after... all that happened... but I will NOT accept a lack of closure.

Yeah, screw the fact that a guy died, I NEED MY loving CLOSURE.

# ? Feb 25, 2014 11:39

Testekill: Nov 1, 2012; I demand to be taken seriously

Arcsquad12 posted:

poo poo that stuff's a goldmine.

Here's a somewhat relatedly Troper thing. Remember how Jew Wario died a few weeks ago? Well, his colleague Suede made reviews of the Pokemon films, and Justin Carmical was one of the guest stars. The latest, and possibly last review in the series was released a couple of days ago, with a disclaimer at the start saying that Suede might just drop the series altogether in light of recent events.

http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/videolinks/ir/suede/animenia/42368-animenia-pokemon-4ever
That doesn't stop the fans in the comments section from being horribly insensitive!

Yeah, screw the fact that a guy died, I NEED MY loving CLOSURE.

These loving people. Considering that they worship the ground that TGWTG people walk on (except JO these days probably), you'd think that they'd show a little respect to Justin. But nope, they just keep on being terrible.

# ? Feb 25, 2014 11:48

Cornwind Evil: Dec 14, 2004; The undisputed world champion of wrestling effortposting

Testekill posted:

These loving people. Considering that they worship the ground that TGWTG people walk on (except JO these days probably), you'd think that they'd show a little respect to Justin. But nope, they just keep on being terrible.

Bad fans are always this interesting slash eye-meltingly horrific mix of zealously worshipful mixed with unbelievably entitled. It probably loops back to them having nothing else in their lives, ergo their fandom tips over into their ego desperately looking for ANYTHING to seize onto. They start thinking the people they admire should do things to show how much they appreciate their devotion, and before you know it you have people stalking JesuOtaku and cataloging her life onto a Tropes page and getting angry when she says she doesn't like it and she wants it to stop and be removed.

How much social interaction requires empathy and their lack of said (successful, anyway) social interaction probably has something to do with it too.

# ? Feb 25, 2014 12:09

El Estrago Bonito: Dec 17, 2010; Scout Finch Bitch

Shadeoses posted:

Ah yes, Sauron. I think you will find he is the quintessential Omnicidal Maniac who has raised an Army of Darkness to Take Over The World and reclaim his Artifact of Doom from those Interfering Heroes. I don't think it's too bold to say he might even be a Trope Defining example of the Villain Archetype

Contains example of:
Bishonen - In deleted scenes from RotK, Sauron took the form of a tall, fair angel

This is stupid because they didn't need to source deleted scenes at all. In the silmarillion his main form is a super beautiful angelic being. Part of his fall from a angel who is one of the best craftsmen in the entire world to despotic evil tyrant working for the bad guy is him dying and losing his ability to take other non scary forms.

# ? Feb 25, 2014 12:59

Skellybones: May 31, 2011; Fun Shoe

I wrote that poo poo as a parody, JosephWongKS quoted the entire real entry afterwards, on this page.

# ? Feb 25, 2014 14:10

JosephWongKS: Apr 4, 2009; by Nyc_Tattoo

Shadeoses posted:

I wrote that poo poo as a parody, JosephWongKS quoted the entire real entry afterwards, on this page.

To be fair, it's hard to tell that it's a parody, given how closely it imitates the style of actual TV Tropes pages.

# ? Feb 25, 2014 15:18

Testekill: Nov 1, 2012; I demand to be taken seriously

So I watched WWE Elimination Chamber 2014 the other day and it had an amazing match. So what better thing to do than look at the Professional Wrestling CMOA page.

quote:

Andr� the Giant
Kurt Angle
"Stone Cold" Steve Austin
Mike Awesome
Wade Barrett
Paul Bearer
Chris Benoit
The Big Show
Bam Bam Bigelow
Boogeyman
Evan Bourne
Bruiser Brody
King Kong Bundy
John Cena
Christian
Michael Cole
Jim Cornette
Bryan Danielson
Sara Del Rey (only gets one entry)
Alberto Del Rio
Nick Dinsmore/Eugene
Edge
El Santo (Very short. Lucha Libre histroy is tough to find information on but El Santo was the biggest star of all time in Mexico. He deserves more than what he gets)
Ric Flair
Mick Foley
Alicia Fox
Terry Funk
Goldberg
Goldust
Eddie Guerrero
Scott Hall
Hallowicked
Bret Hart
Owen Hart
Muhammad Hassan (Literally lists everything he did in his WWE career and half of these things are meaningless)
Gregory Helms
Mark Henry
Hulk Hogan
Bob Holly
Molly Holly (I love Molly with all of my heart and she's one of the nicest people in the industry. I mean, they do mention her donating the profits of her shoot interview to the family of the late Mike Lockwood. However they don't bring up that she is the only wrestler in the industry that New Jack really likes. New Jack, who is an absolute psycho by the way)

Barry Horowitz
King Curtis Iaukea
The Iron Sheik
Ivory
Jimmy Jacobs
Jacqueline
Mickie James
Chris Jericho
Kamala
Kane
Kaitlyn (Average wrestler and one of the examples should be on a crowning moment of funny page)
Kelly Kelly (Cannot even run the ropes properly. This is a required skill for professional wrestlers)
Gail Kim
Eddie Kingston
Aja Kong
Jerry Lawler
John Bradshaw Layfield
AJ Lee
Brock Lesnar
Jushin Thunder Liger
Lita
Madusa (They don't mention her appearing on WCW after getting fired from the WWF and throwing the WWF Womens title in the trash. One of the iconic moments of the Monday Night Wars and they don't bring it up)
Mana The Polynesian Warrior (He graduated from wrestling school in less than two months. Woo)
Mercedes Martinez (Great wrestler, one example. Next)
Chief Wahoo McDaniel
Beulah McGillicutty (Nope. Should have been put under ECW)
Shane McMahon
Shawn Michaels
The Miz
John Morrison
MsChif
Rey Mysterio Jr
Natalya Neidhart
Randy Orton
Diamond Dallas Page
Maxx Payne (all they bring up is the amazing street fight match he, Mick Foley & The Nasty Boys had. That's all. Payne was alright but he's surrounded by names that had a much bigger effect on the industry)
Beth Phoenix
Brian Pillman
Roddy Piper
CM Punk
Mike Quackenbush
Harley Race (Legend of the Industry, one of the toughest men of all time in the industry, only gets one example)
Raven
William Regal
Cody Rhodes
Stevie Richards
Rikidozan (Rikidozan is pretty much the father of Japanese wrestling. He has a page that isn't even a quarter of the length of Ryback)
Jake Roberts
The Rock
Jim Ross
Ryback
Zack Ryder
Damien Sandow
Randy Savage
Ken Shamrock
Sheamus
Ron Simmons (Only one moment listed)
Gordon Solie
Dan Spivey (Only awesome thing that Dan Spivey did was his Waylon Mercy gimmick which was awesome, if short-lived thanks to his retirement)
Ricky Steamboat
AJ Styles
Yoshihiro Tajiri
Masato Tanaka
Tazz
John Tenta (Tenta was apparently a hell of a nice guy. However even he would tell you that he was never an amazing performer, just a guy that went out and did his job as a monster heel.)
Lou Thesz (Lou Thesz is a legend of the industry. How could some of these people be on the same page as him?)
Eve Torres (Mediocre performer sandwiched between two all-time legends.)
Manami Toyota (Manami Toyota is one of the greatest wrestlers of all time from an in-ring talent standpoint. How can she have such an underwhelming page? At least the AJW page talks at length about her matches.)
Triple H
Jumbo Tsuruta
The Undertaker
Vader
Christina Von Eerie (She's a good wrestler. Her entire awesome page is that she main events a show for some Indie company that most people probably have never heard of)
George Wagner/Gorgeous George (Absolute legend. Only has one thing put on his awesome page)
Dolph Ziggler
ChickBusters (The Chickbusters were AJ Lee & Kaitlyn, two people that already have pages)
Fortune (Half of these examples are for AJ Styles, who has a page. The rest could just be under the TNA page)
The Midnight Express
New World Order
The Rock N Roll Express
The Sheepherders/ Bushwackers (One example. Considering the fact they were considering an amazing tag team as the Sheepherders, you'd think there'd be a bit more)
The Shield
The Wyatt Family
Yokozuna

Oh... wow.

I bolded the flatout pointless ones and italicised the ones that are either questionable or just too short to be worthwhile.
I feel really guilty about italicising some of them like Jumbo Tsuruta but his was literally just saying that he had a number of 5 star matches and won awards for feud of the year in 90-91 & wrestler of the year in 91. However it does highlight a massive problem with TV Tropes in general. Their belief that nobody/anything should be put as above anyone/anything else.
But then you get the Chickbusters on the same page as legendary tag teams like the Midnight Express/ Rock & Roll Express/ Sheepherders & The Shield.
Bob Holly was never anything special but he's listed immediately after Hulk Hogan.

I mean, look at the following names. I'll point out to you who are the odd people out for those who don't know.

Jim Cornette (Amazing manager, pretty respectable booker and has had some incredibly promos)
Bryan Danielson (Probably one of the biggest stars going about today. Countless fantastic matches and the crowd just explodes for him.)
Sara Del Rey (One of the best Womens wrestlers of this generation. Triple H rates her enough that she's become a full time trainer for the WWE)
Alberto Del Rio (Has had a strong enough career that he deserves one)
Nick Dinsmore/Eugene (He had to go full retard to get over. He devolved into a one note gimmick pretty quickly although he had some good matches)

Edge (Great tag wrestler & great singles wrestler)
El Santo (One of the biggest stars of all time)
Ric Flair (as above)
Mick Foley (as above)
Alicia Fox (Yeah. Nobody cares about her and yet she has a longer page than Sara Del Ray & Mercedes Martinez.)

I mean, Alicia Fox is on the same page as Ric Flair, El Santo & Mick Foley. That is a thing that they did.

Testekill fucked around with this message at 16:57 on Feb 25, 2014

# ? Feb 25, 2014 16:53

AngryRobotsInc: Aug 2, 2011

Their wrestling section is just sad all around.

They also have a page for Doink the Clown, which just reminds me how 'interesting' the WWE got in the 90s.

# ? Feb 25, 2014 17:07

Kaboom Dragoon: May 7, 2010; The greatest of feasts

No one wants to give Stevie Richards a shot :smith:

On the subject of wrestling, who was the ECW jobber who got a standing ovation and a ton of replays when he finally landed an offensive move? I remember laughing my rear end of at it, but I can't remember who it was.

# ? Feb 25, 2014 17:10

Testekill: Nov 1, 2012; I demand to be taken seriously

Kaboom Dragoon posted:

No one wants to give Stevie Richards a shot

On the subject of wrestling, who was the ECW jobber who got a standing ovation and a ton of replays when he finally landed an offensive move? I remember laughing my rear end of at it, but I can't remember who it was.

I italicised Stevie Richards because it was just too short and should have been on the WWE page. It's about him being named the third most hated heel of 2000, which is admittedly incredibly impressive for someone that was a midcarder.

You're also thinking of Mikey Whipwreck. Pretty much he was just a guy that got the poo poo kicked out of him until he accidentally won the tag titles with Cactus Jack. He had a couple of really cool moments during his ECW career and trained Jay Lethal which I'm eternally grateful for.

AngryRobotsInc posted:

Their wrestling section is just sad all around.

They also have a page for Doink the Clown, which just reminds me how 'interesting' the WWE got in the 90s.

Oh man, the original Doink the Clown was amazing. Matt Borne portrayed him as just really sick and sadistic and it's one of my favourite gimmicks of all time. The original evil clown mind you, not what happened after Borne left due to "personal demons"

Testekill fucked around with this message at 17:39 on Feb 25, 2014

# ? Feb 25, 2014 17:33

Random Stranger: Nov 27, 2009

Somfin posted:

No, they put in GOOD Cthulhus that are just as powerful as the EVIL Cthulhu but they love humanity.

Brian Lumley actually did this. It was awful.

The swirling cloud of Lovecraft followers (as opposed to the Lovecraft circle who got lumped together by those followers) is actually kind of interesting in a "fan fiction goes professional" kind of way. August Derleth was painfully bad; he would be a troper if he was around today.

# ? Feb 25, 2014 18:03

Cygna: Mar 6, 2009; The ghost of a god is no man.

Kaboom Dragoon posted:

Wasn't Tales of MU basically glorified Harry Potter fanfic that everyone considered really progressive because the main character was bi and into S&M, before it quickly turned into outright porn? I remember it had a ~~sexbot~~ 'golem' who was torn between wanting to be ordered to do things and wanting to be her own person, which was actually an interesting idea from what I heard. Guessing it was squandered swiftly?

This just unlocked a shitton of memories I repressed about this story :psyduck:

This is basically accurate, except instead of Harry Potter it was more like every single mythological/fantasy creature ever stuffed into some soap opera interpretation of a college and having sex with each other constantly. It was like a fetish webcomic, but without pictures-- the writer literally described it in those words at some point, IIRC. It was troper-fic incarnate.

# ? Feb 25, 2014 19:31

Alopex: May 31, 2012; This is the sleeve I have chosen.

Ratspeaker posted:

This just unlocked a shitton of memories I repressed about this story This is basically accurate, except instead of Harry Potter it was more like every single mythological/fantasy creature ever stuffed into some soap opera interpretation of a college and having sex with each other constantly. It was like a fetish webcomic, but without pictures-- the writer literally described it in those words at some point, IIRC. It was troper-fic incarnate.

And it updated at a chapter per day. You can guess what happened to the quality and pacing as it went on.

# ? Feb 25, 2014 19:38

Kaboom Dragoon: May 7, 2010; The greatest of feasts

Ratspeaker posted:

This just unlocked a shitton of memories I repressed about this story This is basically accurate, except instead of Harry Potter it was more like every single mythological/fantasy creature ever stuffed into some soap opera interpretation of a college and having sex with each other constantly. It was like a fetish webcomic, but without pictures-- the writer literally described it in those words at some point, IIRC. It was troper-fic incarnate.

I remember someone gushing about it, telling me how amazing it was (this was also a woman who viewed the Anita Blake series as the pinnacle of modern literature and a guide to living a fulfilling life, a sign that, in retrospect, should've been a giveaway). I scanned a few chapters where the main character (who was half-dragon?) was struggling with her attraction to a wood nymph who walked around naked all day and had her name badge on a nipple piercing. Other than that, it seemed kinda harmless, and as I said, the golem thing was legitimately intriguing. Of course, from what I heard later, it turned into the main character getting off on being publicly humiliated and getting banged by her boyfriend and two of her girlfriends (one of whom was a transgender elf), the rest of the cast being relegated to virtual unimportance.

# ? Feb 25, 2014 21:24

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 24, 2024 22:07

Flesnolk: Apr 11, 2012

Testekill posted:

Nick Dinsmore/Eugene (He had to go full retard to get over. He devolved into a one note gimmick pretty quickly although he had some good matches)

Wasn't he just a jobber with an incredibly insulting gimmick?

# ? Feb 25, 2014 22:35

The Something Awful Forums > Archives > General Bullshit > TV Trops

«‹›222 »